39 pointsby abelsm5 hours ago15 comments
  • jexe3 hours ago
    Cofounder of a now-defunct multiplayer, real-time infinite canvas project here (Here.fm)

    We could not for the life of us figure out how to make this a meaningful productivity tool. Yes, we had meetings here, and yes, drawing all over someone else's screenshare was actually useful - And building islands of data was an interesting mental model. It descended into messy chaos no matter what you did, and anything you would do to try and combat that undid some of the benefits of the canvas to begin with.

    It was a lot of fun to hang out in as a multiplayer live video room, though, so we leaned into that with (relatively) more success.

    • fragmede3 hours ago
      > It descended into messy chaos no matter what you did

      I think this is where AI could be put to work. Before, what would be a toilsome digital clean up process (eg git commits) is now an instruction to an LLM to clean it up. If the chaos was clean-up-able, would your product have worked?

  • projektfu4 hours ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooming_user_interface

    They mostly do not gain a lot of users. Good luck!

    • trgn4 hours ago
      this stuff was huge for a while, 20-25 years ago, digital libraries, information exploration, ... consider even things like minority report, or more prosaically, all the demos coming out of MIT medialab.

      It never really caught on, completed got clobbered by free text search, now AI chat interfaces I guess.

      Am glad to see it bubble up again, because have good memories working on this stuff.

      • stronglikedan3 hours ago
        > this stuff was huge for a while, 20-25 years ago

        If I recall correctly, it became popular because of the Lawnmower Man movie in '92.

        • stelonixan hour ago
          I always think of Johnny Mnemonic when I see such interfaces. One of the reasons I got into computers as kid. Hackers (1995) also had a great (Hollywood) computer interface that shares some similarities with it.
        • trgn3 hours ago
          didnt know, it's on my watchlist now!
      • projektfu3 hours ago
        I am too lazy to do the work but in that time frame I considered that a zooming/hierarchical view would be a nice way to browse the web, with followed links appearing as new pages next to the current page. The web became too dynamic for that anyway.
        • hn_acc126 minutes ago
          OS/2 Warp's browser did that - it kept a tree of parent and child nodes (indented) as a history type of thing..
    • bonestamp22 hours ago
      Figma is a good example of this UI paradigm done well, lots of users, and financial success.
    • mrtesthah20 minutes ago
      >They mostly do not gain a lot of users.

      Ever used a browser on iOS? Google Maps / Apple Maps? ZUIs are one of the main multi-touch user interface paradigms now.

    • 2 hours ago
      undefined
    • esafak4 hours ago
      I think (work)spaces like macOS Spaces because they make access easier; with a single continuous space you have to work, whereas a workspace is a hotkey away. They make for nice demos and movie scenes though.

      After having used such things since the 80s (starting with DESQview) I find myself simply minimizing or leaving secondary applications in the background of a single workspace. When I do use other spaces it is for full screen view. I don't usually need to see multiple windows at the same time, but that would be a task for a tiling manager...

  • swader99925 minutes ago
    The title doesn't do this justice. I would so love for this to be a finished polished product that just works.
    • efields14 minutes ago
      I’m ready for Apple to swipe the basic idea and roll it into the next version of macOS. Gels nicely with the spatial widget work they do on visionOS. Deprecate stage manager while you’re on it.
      • swader9992 minutes ago
        Maybe but I like the idea of it serving as an agent sandbox or context boundary which is probably too specialized for Apple to build into the OS.
    • abelsm12 minutes ago
      thanks! we wanted to put it out there and see if there's interest before investing more time in polishing it. it's been really helpful to see the discussion here.
  • condiment4 hours ago
    Very cool interface and reminiscent of figma/excalidraw in the way they provide an infinite 2d canvas for shapes and figures. Most tools of these types tend to implement layers as well, which might be loosely analogous to multiple desktops and could be a neat interface element to explore. The impetus for layering in a drawing tool is very different from the impetus for doing such in a desktop windowing tool.

    The 3d demos are similar to what you experience when using a VR headset with desktop emulation software. I ran experiments with that for several months and while the concepts were interesting, context switching in a simulated physical space was actually a lot slower than alt+tabbing between things.

    • mncharity2 hours ago
      I played with XR UX years back. Three quick thoughts.

      I liked a hierarchy of context switching devices. Open tabs, windows, workspaces, for me are distracting clutter, scaled by some distance metric. Having to physically carry a laptop to elsewhere in a room had "I've left work for home" nicely strong context switching vibes. Followed by resumable-but-not-currently-live VMs/workspaces, etc, down to, well, gazing at a different window. So variety in costs and benefits.

      I wanted a drawing-like experience for a laptop keyboard, eyes-on-screen hands-on-tablet, so kbd as touch surface (and 3D tracking above it), with the screen showing, in faint shallow-3D offset, hand position and a dynamic kbd UI. Meh. But shallow-3D UI, something 3D one can live with all day without VAC eyestrain, seemed intriguing but little explored.

      With current AI, even with small 1080p laptop/HMD viewports encouraging manual packing, I'd be tempted to try escaping the whole decades-long "how do I arrange windows" mess, and tool up a personal-assistant-like "knowing what you're currently up to, here's a screens/canvases/workspaces/windows tasteful layout for that, arranged in ways you've liked".

  • amelius3 hours ago
    What happens if you put all your browser tabs in two dimensions?

    Answer: you get a mess.

    That's why browsers weren't built like that, and also why I think this will not work.

    But happy to be proven wrong of course.

    • thaumasiotes3 hours ago
      > What happens if you put all your browser tabs in two dimensions?

      > Answer: you get a mess.

      > That's why browsers weren't built like that

      But people frequently go out of their way to put their tabs into two dimensions.

      There are tab trees: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/tabtree/afejdkkhibi...

      There are tab groups: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/tab-groups

      There are tab containers: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/multi-account...

      It seems pretty clear that people want their tabs to be organized in multiple dimensions.

      • Zircom3 hours ago
        FYI those Firefox containers have little to nothing to do with organizing tabs spatially, it just lets you have different 'profiles' to open tabs in that can all have separate cookies and so lets you be logged into different accounts on the same website for one example/use case.
        • thaumasiotes2 hours ago
          I know that. They define an additional dimension to the tabs. Most dimensions aren't spatial.
    • ge963 hours ago
      What if... imagine stacked skewed windows and you scrolled through them like a rolladex
  • sean_pedersenan hour ago
    Just gave it a spin and feels very rough / unpolished. - Why is the default scroll wheel action panning vertically and not zooming in and out (the main interaction)? - Why is the app size 1GB? - Everything feels clunky / not native - these are not my real apps.

    This would need a lot of work to feel frictionless but I like the concept.

  • lobofta4 hours ago
    What I like about Niri and hyprland is that I don't need to think about where windows open and about positioning them. This then looks very tiring, but I could be wrong. Would have to play with it.
  • dotfrag3 hours ago
    It's basically already been said but, this seems absurd. I'm not quite sure what TRUE benefit you'd get from this but it seems more frustrating than it's worth. I can't figure out a reason to do this unless I'm just in the mood to piss myself off.
    • tclancy2 hours ago
      I can’t help but see this as a productivity illusion. “Hey now I really can work on three things at once”. Then someone asks you a question a week later and you have zero memory of doing anything with that project.
    • fragmede3 hours ago
      The collaborative feature seems like it would be useful, especially for remote teams.
  • andrewmutz4 hours ago
    I've found that working in a style similar to this is very useful for managing multiple threads of work at the same time.

    I use virtual desktops, where each desktop contains a single thing that I am working on, and everything related to it. Then any good window manager can switch between them quickly and even give you a spatial sense of where you are. I organize them as a priority stack, so the topmost priority is in top position and then it goes downward from there

    There's a lot that this "campus" product does that isn't present in such a set up (multi user, zooming, etc...) but virtual desktops give you a lot of the benefit and come built in to most of our operating systems

  • E-Reverance4 hours ago
    Most similar thing to it I've seen is https://youtu.be/7q-ZhdXk3w4?t=40
  • _trampeltieran hour ago
    In the mid 90s and early 2000, all Linuxes had virtual Desktops.
    • graemepan hour ago
      They still do. My first thought was that virtual desktops and moving when you hit a screen edge gives you may of the advantages of this.
  • sean_pedersenan hour ago
    Looks very interesting - is it open-source yet?
    • abelsman hour ago
      Cofounder of FlutterFlow here. Not atm, as it started as an internal project. But it's something we're considering.
  • bpavuk4 hours ago
    I kinda already have this with Niri's infinite-scrolling horizontal strip and Vicinae as the control plane for complex stuff. like, to replace my Niri setup I'd need a 48:9 (!) monitor
  • 2 hours ago
    undefined
  • ge964 hours ago
    SimulaVR is interesting (VR Desktop) but I was writing code in the middle of the salt lake flats super weird