559 pointsby miles3 days ago74 comments
  • stego-tech3 days ago
    All the bickering about the validity of this specific story and the “if you don’t like it don’t ever leave home to go anywhere ever” misses the crux of the issue that these articles are trying to raise:

    * Do we agree that a law enforcement arm of any country should be allowed to perform warrantless searches of electronic devices?

    * Do we find it acceptable that persons with critical views are denied entry to countries that profess protection of speech for its citizens?

    * If we find either of the above objectionable, what should we be doing to stop it?

    The reality is that this is on the rise, not just in the USA but globally, and we should be having frank discussions on whether this is acceptable or not given its repercussions.

    For context, despite my critique of an unnamed EMEA government, they’ve happily let me into their country repeatedly to do work for an employer, associate with my colleagues, and perform volunteer work within its borders. On the flip side, I have serious doubts about my ability to enter authoritarian regimes like China because of my outspoken critique of government policies, regardless of my intentions within their borders.

    This [broader issue] is what we should be discussing, not nuanced specifics over a single incident.

    • legitster3 days ago
      Borders in particular are tricky things. You don't have any legal right to be admitted into a country that doesn't want you, and there is no due process that protects you. Warrants are not really a thing. So it really comes down to how friendly your countries are with each other and how much you are willing to put up with to get entry.
      • stego-tech3 days ago
        That’s how it currently is, but now how it has always been or always will be. Never mistake the present for either the past or the future.

        That’s what I’m getting at, here. Folks are digging into the details of what’s in front of them instead of stepping back and looking at the bigger picture first.

        • edanm2 days ago
          If the bigger picture includes completely changing the entire way the world works, the way countries work, how humans have always organized themselves, etc, then I think it makes sense that people are not looking at it because it is completely unrealistic and irrelevant.

          "Let's not discuss this specific government policy, because should governments even exist" is not very interesting.

          • account422 days ago
            Holy strawman dude. You don't have to abolish the entire concept of governments in order to guarantee basic human rights at border crossings. Countries work out all kinds of shared minimum standards in international agreements.

            Which is why the guy in the article is wrong:

            > I don't feel there is any point in contacting the State Department, nor do I think they have any power against such a powerful and strict country as the United States

            That's exactly what he should have done if things happened as described and the Norwegian government should then take appropriate action.

            • edanm2 days ago
              Yes! You and I are in agreement.

              It was the parent to my comment that was suggesting otherwise.

          • queenkjuul2 days ago
            > how humans have always organized themselves

            Not even remotely the case

      • mingus883 days ago
        Yeah I am very pro-privacy and don’t agree that this is a choice between requiring warrants at the border or no searches at all.

        From a practical standpoint it’s completely unworkable to require an actual judge to evaluate every person coming in and out to issue or deny a warrant. The costs alone are staggering.

    • throw4573s22 days ago
      > On the flip side, I have serious doubts about my ability to enter authoritarian regimes like China because of my outspoken critique of government policies, regardless of my intentions within their borders.

      I’ve posted a lot of pro-Taiwan content and not once have I ever been interrogated at the Chinese borders. Many times they don’t even talk to me.

      Unless you are a well-known and famous agitator, I highly doubt they will even care about you.

      • whenseana day ago
        Yes. Your reply reminds me of a friend of mine who works in the US. Every time he comes back to China, he would neurotically wipe out his phone and computer. Even though he has never encountered border inspections. In fact, in terms of what Westerners "think" China is doing in terms of surveillance, most of it is what China doesn't do, while the US is doing it and there is actual evidence. It's a very black-humored reality. The US is the real bad guy.
      • queenkjuul2 days ago
        In the mind of most Americans, China simply must be worse in every way, despite any evidence they may encounter
      • mrtksn2 days ago
        American dystopia is based on total population control: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44354657

        IRL, the dictatorships we have don’t actually control the population that much. As long as it doesn’t create problems for the administration , nobody cares what you talk about..

    • throw0101c3 days ago
      > […] countries that profess protection of speech for its citizens?

      Not just citizens: AIUI the various US Constitution Amendments apply to everyone with-in the US. And more generally, the US sees itself—or at least its ideals—as the model people should strive for ("City upon a Hill").

      • kcplate2 days ago
        > AIUI the various US Constitution Amendments apply to everyone with-in the US

        Mostly correct (depends on which amendment), but technically this guy didn’t cross into the US yet since he hadn’t cleared customs and border control…so the first amendment doesn’t apply to him.

        • hayst4ck2 days ago
          Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

          No where does it say "on US soil" or "for US Citizens," and that is absolutely 100% by design based on the founding fathers philosophy which can be read in the declaration of independence.

          It states plainly and unqualified "make no law abridging the freedom of speech." This both asserts that there is a freedom of speech that exists outside of the government and that congress shall make no law abridging it.

          In their philosophy, the government purposefully doesn't grant the right to freedom of speech, because the founding fathers argument was that their, and all people's, natural god given (literally) rights are why they were justified in rebelling against the British government -- that rights exist outside of, and above, the government.

        • throw0101c2 days ago
          > but technically this guy didn’t cross into the US yet since he hadn’t cleared customs and border control…

          IANAL, but I don't think that's how it works: you're in US jurisdiction, and governed by US law (including the highest law of the Constitution), when you cross the twelve nautical mile control zone by plane (or boat).

          * https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone

          * https://www.aclu.org/documents/constitution-100-mile-border-...

          > Rasul v. bush and Boumediene v. Bush guaranteed due process for prisoners of Guantanamo; In U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, an 1898 decision, the Supreme Court birthright citizenship is stretched to people born to illegal immigrants; Plyer v. doe and Yik Wo v. Hopkins gave 14th equal protection clause; Padilla V. Kentucky gave the right to legal counsel; Bridges v. Wixon (1945): The Supreme Court ruled that a noncitizen could not be deported solely for political speech, affirming that the First Amendment applies to immigrants; United States v. Alvarez-Machain (1992): Acknowledged that noncitizens in U.S. custody still have constitutional rights.

          * https://old.reddit.com/r/Askpolitics/comments/1jlfhss/who_do...

    • hayst4ck2 days ago
      This country was founded on the idea that rights transcend government and that a government cannot grant rights because rights do not come from law, but from human dignity intrinsic to all of us. If rights are derived from human dignity, then a government cannot grant them, it can only protect them. If a government were to grant rights, then they would be privileges and not rights. You can read the American founder's document's which are steeped in this exact and specific language.

      What we are seeing now is an assault on the idea of rights. This border control action is a salami slicing tactic against the idea of rights itself. To rob others of their dignity... their freedom to express themselves and form their own beliefs and convictions without consequences from the government means that it is no longer a right to have your own opinions and assessments, but instead that is a privilege reserved only for "the protected."

      Rights exist as a counter-force to tyranny and the entire idea, language, and history of rights exists in the context of when it is justified to break the rules of authoritarian governments and fight tyranny. To call something a right is to say it is worth breaking the law to protect because it exists above law. The declaration of independence is absolutely crystal clear that rights supersede law which is why the founders of America were justified in violating British law and forming a government that protects rights rather than violates them.

      When you do not protect the rights of others, it is a prelude to losing your own rights because once a right is turned into a privilege for anybody, structurally it has been turned into a privilege for everybody because the "right" is no longer derived from human dignity, but from law. Eventually you will disagree with those in power, and you will come to discover the same techniques used to weaken others rights will weaken your own. There is always a pretext or game to be played. Slavery was made illegal, but prisoners are allowed to be enslaved. Drug law turned people into criminals, which gave the government permission to take away their rights and force them into slave labor, which is a clear moral hazard. Denaturalization is something that can happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturalization#Human_rights

      If freedom of speech can only be denied to those who are not protected by state, then the state will figure out how to put you in the class of unprotected people, whether that is foreigner or criminal.

      By the time you feel at risk of your own rights being violated, you will find yourself and everyone else have been habituated to ask if that specific person's rights should be protected rather than if a right has been violated or if you would feel robbed of your own dignity in that same situation, and the answer will be no, because the cost of answering yes will be too unbearable to acknowledge because doing so both creates a sense of personal responsibility and puts you at mortal risk while simultaneously making you feel alone, since nobody else seems to be provoked enough to act.

      • mrtksn2 days ago
        what I find puzzling is how come the new administration is moving so fast without resistance? As with US other countries also have some intrinsic understanding of how the government should work and when a government does something against some principle, they are met with huge pressure from the public. People will stop cooperating or start protesting.

        It took Erdogan 20 years to dismantle the core of the secular republic for example , arguably he hasn’t finished it.

        • magarnicle2 days ago
          I could speculate by comparing it to my own country, but I think Benedict Evans has the best insight on this:

          America's peers as a country are not Europe, Japan, Turkey, but other very large area, very large population countries i.e. Russia, China, Brazil, India.

        • queenkjuul2 days ago
          People were protesting and Trump sent in the military to beat them up, nothing changed, and the courts so far haven't stopped him.

          Meanwhile everyone is broke and precarious.

          People aren't very willing to risk everything they have just to get brutalized by a cop that will later be acquitted

        • 2 days ago
          undefined
    • anal_reactor2 days ago
      > The reality is that this is on the rise, not just in the USA but globally, and we should be having frank discussions on whether this is acceptable or not given its repercussions.

      Another reality is that people don't actually value personal freedoms, and they happily give that up in exchange for a tiny bit more sense of security. Lots of discussions on this topic assume that westerners believe in freedom of speech, but that's simply not true.

    • docmars3 days ago
      Agreed, and well said. I think everyone's goal is (hopefully) to move away from as many double-standards around these types of incidents as possible, and level the playing field, in favor of liberty / freedom, assuming there will be a few odd anomalies needing special consideration. On paper, this incident could be one of those due to its nature as a border security issue, and I think it's safe to say that most (even those who support ICE) are viewing this as silly and unnecessary, at least in my circles.
    • soueuls2 days ago
      I have traveled extensively to both the US and China (where I did a master degree) several years ago.

      I did not keep the count of many times I crossed each borders, but I can assure you it was pretty much always easier to get into China than it was to get into the US (and that was before Trump).

      Chinese authorities are no jokes, but the amount of non sense you need to put up to get into the free land, is very high.

      • hayst4ck2 days ago
        I was mentally prepared to be violated at the Chinese border and it was one of the most boring borders I've crossed. I am not sure I was even asked a single question. Meanwhile coming back to America was the worst border I've crossed, the border guard barked at me as if I were a criminal and asked invasive questions in an accusatory manor. I am very white and very American.
    • bananalychee3 days ago
      [flagged]
      • guappa3 days ago
        In which other countries is it happening? Do you have any links to newsreports?
      • Disposal84333 days ago
        > which is something that actually happens in other countries

        Yes, but it's (IIRC) that it's so blatantly happening in the Land of the Free World where the first amendment of the constitution is touted as the best law ever written in history.

        • bananalychee3 days ago
          Is it so blatant, or does it just seems like it because of the sheer amount of spin being spun? I can think of a few stories that I think qualify as evidence of overstepping, but I can also think of several from 2021-2024. I don't like it, but none really come close to the level of the UK's speech policing. Reading the comments here you'd think we're worse than China.

          When it comes to border control, I've looked into several of these outrageous claims, and they consistently omit critical details that point to a valid reason for denial. Being denied entry and then having an overzealous border agent tsk-tsk at your meme is not nearly the same thing as being denied entry or thrown in jail because of it. And now OP primes us to think that the details don't really matter. I think they do, because every conversation on the current administration is now tainted by propaganda (in both directions).

          • smegger0012 days ago
            Difference being I can openly disagree with UK speech laws and call tje prime minister a limp dick and not be denied entry. Where here that is no is ground for denying entry where it wasn't under previous administrations. Can you imagine the outrage had Bush admin banned anyone that mad fun of Dick Channy ?
          • queenkjuul2 days ago
            Actually many first-hand comments here are making it pretty clear US border crossings are worse than China's, and that's mostly what I've heard from people who travel between the two as well.
          • Defenestresque2 days ago
            The first amendment is a good thing overall, but I have honestly never heard of a story of someone attempting to enter the US, someone with no criminal record and from an ally country, just to be forcibly strip-searched at the border.

            They just tell you that you they are denying you entry and putting you on the next plane back.

            That being said, we are clearly only getting one side of the story and I'd love to know what _exactly_ that found on his phone, but given how consistent the stories have been (pulled into secondary, forced to unlock personal media under threats of imprisonment, strip search, disappearance for a few days or weeks) I am inclined to move this from the "anecdotes" to "anecdata" to something-very-close-to-data category.

            If you chose to rebutt this with the "millions of people come in to the US every year with absolutely no problem" I'd like to say that only 0.02 people die by train per 100,000,000 miles travelled. Does that mean I don't want the NTSB to investigate train crashes or that these peoples deaths (and injuries) don't matter because they comprise such a low percentage?*

            I am extremely sympathetic to his position of his phone automatically downloading media he is sent. My phone's WhatsApp settings came with "auto-download any images people send you to your (local, on-device) gallery" set as default. I also had Google Photos installed, which had the option of "auto back-up any images/videos you store on your phone to your Google Photos account" which I turned on because I break my phones often. The result was that several relatives with questionable (and opposite) political tastes have their memes (think [pollitician x] next to a [hate symbol]" (got it? Good. It's not the one you're thinking of!) automatically stored on my phone and backed up to my Google Photos account, not even accounting for the automatic WhatsApp backup that is stored on my Google Drive account.

            From previous reporting, the agents plug in the device into a forensic analyzer which dumps out a list of images/videos that were saved (note the distinction between "that you saved" and "that were saved") and use it against you.

            I can't imagine what it must feel like to arrive here from Norway to go camping and be subject to a strip-search and interrogation because someone you may not even consider a friend sent you some shitty memes a few years ago. Or, in this case, because they found a "anti-JD-vance" meme that even JD vance seems to think is fine?

            [0] https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics...

    • Izkata3 days ago
      > All the bickering about the validity of this specific story

      I think you're looking at this point the wrong way around: If the people bringing these stories up had good examples, they should use those instead of these questionable ones. Using these stories instead makes it look like the US is doing a good job of not overreaching.

  • perihelions3 days ago
    > "placed in a cell"

    I think the title is deficient and should be based on this higher-weighted fact, over the weaker phrasing "refused entry".

    "Tourist jailed without trial for possessing political cartoon"

    • sarchertech3 days ago
      He was placed in a cell before they found the Vance image. He also said the border guard didn’t like that image or an image of him with a wooden pipe.

      I don’t doubt that it’s possible he was denied because of the Vance image and that in itself says something terrible about the current state of affairs.

      But I think it’s more likely that he was stopped based on some other red flag like not having a return ticket and denied because of that.

      • q1w22 days ago
        Important to note that the only source of information we have right now is the deported person's account of events.

        He does say he was detained PRIOR to the picture being found. Being detained if far more relevant than being asked about a photo.

        It's also important to note that Border Control will not tell you WHY you're being denied entry, so the person ascribing it to the meme is speculating based on being asked about it.

      • SV_BubbleTime3 days ago
        [flagged]
        • sarchertech3 days ago
          When I say it’s possible, I don’t think that it’s the official CBP policy, but I have had enough interactions with power tripping cops to believe that it’s possible that the kid was disrespectful to the wrong guy. Customs agents have wide latitude in determining who can enter, and I could see a situation where an already angry agent saw the Vance thing, got even angrier and said you’re outta here.
          • account422 days ago
            The situation could certainly have been escalated by a single officer in a bad mood but there must have been some flag that caused him to be pulled aside in the first place. That doesn't mean there was any real wrong doing on the part of the guy but with many of other similar claims against the US border agents mistreating EU citizens you do see some reason why they might have been spooked if you dig a little deeper. E.g. anything that could give CBP the idea that you intend to seek work in the US is just asking for trouble.

            Edit: It was drug use according to CPB: https://x.com/CBP/status/1937651325354795444

            • SV_BubbleTime2 days ago
              Who possibly could have seen that edit coming?

              Not the hundreds of “highly intelligent and immune to manipulation” HackerNews readers apparently.

          • 2 days ago
            undefined
          • SV_BubbleTime3 days ago
            Sure, maybe. But there’s clearly an entire other side of the story along with the Norwegian government warning other travelers, they must have their documents on them.
        • solid_fuel3 days ago
          Don't make excuses for this abuse. The administration now in power in the US has been very clear - they oppose free speech and do not respect the constitution or Bill of Rights.
          • SV_BubbleTime2 days ago
            Wow, what an amazing surprise!

            https://x.com/CBP/status/1937651325354795444

          • SV_BubbleTime3 days ago
            How are you so certain it’s abuse?

            How are you even certain the story happened?

            Why would you be any degree of certain that it happened the way that this angry Norwegian is saying it happened?

            How would you have any idea you’re being manipulated or not? Would you care if it entirely aligned with your presumptions and preferences?

    • ymhr3 days ago
      Even worse, you can omit “political” meme - he may be a political figure but as far as I can tell it has no relation to any policies…it’s just a silly picture.
      • perihelions3 days ago
        Isn't the politics the entire point though? US federal law enforcement isn't jailing people over funny pictures; they're jailing people over funny pictures *of powerful government officials*. It's an instantly-recognizable trait of a certain kind of country: like "you can't refer to Xi Jinping as "Pooh", you go to jail for that", or "you can't talk about the King of Thailand's body weight, you go to jail for that"—it's a archetype of *that* kind of place. Everyone knows what it means. "You can't make silly pictures of Vice President Vance—you go to jail for that".
        • account422 days ago
          The guy wasn't jailed, he was detained until he could be put on a return flight the same day.

          That he was refused entry because of the picture is his speculation and likely not the full truth because they only found the picture after already pulling him aside.

          There is certainly questionable behavior by the CPB here if the description is correct but lets not make conclusions that aren't backed by facts.

          Edit: CPB refutes that he was denied entry because of the meme: https://x.com/CBP/status/1937651325354795444

          • mandmandam2 days ago
            The claim: "for his admitted drug use"

            The context: He smoked weed in California, where it's legal, years ago.

            This guy isn't a drug trafficker. He's not doing meth or heroin, never did. He smoked weed, in a legal state (as millions of Americans do on a daily basis).

            Then he made the critical mistake of handing over his phone to be searched, rather than flying home (!), upon which advanced creepy software (probably developed and funded by some of this very crowd) flagged this 'federal crime' of smoking weed while in Cali.

            So yes, the meme is a red herring, but it's distracting from a thing that's still incredibly fucked up.

            • msgodel2 days ago
              It's not legal in any state because using/selling it is against federal law.
              • mandmandam2 days ago
                No one is saying it isn't against federal law.

                It's still a demented justification to turn someone away from the country. "You can come here, buy weed in a majority of states, and face no fear of repercussions... Until you try and come back in". That's nutty. It's batshit.

                And, the real reason he was brought in - as brought up by the Immi officers - was that he was doing journalism at one of the anti-genocide protests.

                • msgodel2 days ago
                  It's probably not a good idea to have people on visas attending protests.

                  Keep in mind I'm very much not pro Isreal, but it's not practical or moral to have foreign partisans participating in our politics that way.

                  • mandmandam2 days ago
                    > > it's not practical or moral to have foreign partisans participating in our politics that way.

                    That would be called 'freedom of assembly', which is a universal human right (see Article 20 of the UNDHR). Highly moral, most practical, and widely recognized as such.

                  • queenkjuul2 days ago
                    Why would someone on a visa deserve to be denied freedom of assembly?
                    • msgodel2 days ago
                      Sorry. No. The idea that you have a right of assembly in a foreign country is completely absurd. I don't know which line of thinking convinced you otherwise but any country that actually chooses to allow that can't exist for very long.
        • ndsipa_pomu2 days ago
          I don't think the King of Thailand was really a government official - more of a figurehead.
    • dandanua3 days ago
      The higher-weighted fact is that the USA has a brutal double assassination of opposition politicians (a senator and a house representative along with their spouses), and no one is talking about that, zero mentions on hacker news. A guy detained for a Vance meme? Yeah, keep your attention on that. You live in a fascism already.
      • SauciestGNU3 days ago
        I think there's been plenty of discussion of the above, and it often dovetails with immigration enforcement and the pretty reasonable assumption that the masked kidnap squads are law enforcement impersonators in much the same way the assassin was, and the two types of situation are different manifestations of the same threat model (volent actors working at the behest of the autocrat but without necessarily being agents of the state).
      • airforce13 days ago
        A state (not federal) house representative and her husband were murdered.

        A state (not federal) senator and his wife were attempted murdered, but both survived and are expected to recover.

        Your comment frames it as if 2 members of federal congress were assassinated which would have been a much bigger deal. State politicians being killed is still shocking and tragic, but try to be precise in your language as to not mislead.

        • gota3 days ago
          This is surprising to me. Are you implying/saying it's no big deal that 2 elected officials were shot (one killed) because they are "only" state-level politicians?

          This is not a good sign for democracy in the US. I think a healthy response would be protests, investigations, state and federal "comissions" looking into domestic political terrorism, etc. A whole lot of consequences. Instead there is nothing.

          In contrast, in Brazil (not even a best example of a healthiest democracy) the assassination of a city councilwoman (city! not even state!) has been a dominant story in politics for many years and has never completely fallen out of public attention. It's been close to a decade!

          I'm not one to quickly say "fascism" or to spell out doom but even to me this is a crystal clear sign of a system starting to fail...

          [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marielle_Franco

          • airforce13 days ago
            It's a big deal, just not as big a deal as misleadingly implied. "The capitol building was bombed!" (implying Washington DC) vs "The capitol building [of Alaska] was bombed!" would both be big deals, but one is a much bigger deal than the other.
    • gruez3 days ago
      >"Tourist jailed without trial for possessing political cartoon"

      Jail almost by definition means pretrial detention, so "jailed without trial" is a tautology.

      • anigbrowl3 days ago
        Not in the United States. Jails are operated by cities or counties and people can be incarcerated for up to a year in jail. Prisons are operated by the state and house people convicted of felonies (sentence >1 year).
      • guappa3 days ago
        Most people who are not from USA do not make any distinction between jail and prison.

        Nitpicking about the precise legal terminology is a bit pointless in this context.

        • gruez3 days ago
          It's not really nitpicking because any sort of pretrial detention is technically "jailed without trial", and pretrial detention isn't some sort of tool only used by fascist regimes. So far as I can tell, he was pulled aside for further questioning and ultimately refused entry, but the authorities didn't go out of their way to detain him for longer than necessary. No, I'm not excusing the government's behavior. Refusing someone entry for possessing a political cartoon is still bad, but "jailed without trial" is just inflammatory wording.

          If some protester got arrested for protesting, the reasonable thing to do is to call it just that, not "protester jailed without trial for protesting".

          • tekknik2 days ago
            Even your definition seems overly broad, as being arrested is pretrial detention and only requires a spoken word from the officer.
      • eesmith3 days ago
        Jail can be used for post-conviction confinement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison#United_States

        > A jail holds people for shorter periods of time (for example, less than a year) or for pre-trial detention and is usually operated by a local government, typically the county sheriff.

        > A prison or penitentiary holds people for longer periods of time, such as many years, and is operated by a state or federal government. After a conviction, a sentenced person is sent to prison.

        Here's an example of it used that way in Virginia's laws, at https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter1/secti...

        > The authorized punishments for conviction of a misdemeanor are:

        > (a) For Class 1 misdemeanors, confinement in jail for not more than twelve months and a fine of not more than $2,500, either or both.

  • Someone12343 days ago
    It is worth noting that the US has been doing digital device searches coming up to twenty years now. I had my phone searched back in the early 2000s, and my most recent US Visa required me to list all social media accounts.

    I've even read (but not experienced) reports of GrayKey or UFED being used to download someone's unlocked phone for offline analysis also. Your choices at the border are either: Unlock your phone and MAYBE get let in, or refuse which is best case a guaranteed entry refusal or worse case a 5 ban (for "non-cooperation" as inadmissibility reason).

    The US (and UK) treat non-citizens terribly at the border; even with zero history or justification. It is even worse for non-white Europeans.

    • account422 days ago
      > Your choices at the border are either: Unlock your phone and MAYBE get let in, or refuse which

      That's if they search your phone which isn't standard procedure for every entry. Likely it means you have already been flagged for something else.

      • mandmandam2 days ago
        Do you understand how that doesn't make it okay?
    • wffurr3 days ago
      Disable biometric unlock; you're not required to provide a passcode but you can be required to look at or touch the device. Cross with it turned off.

      I don't think the threat of a fine or jail time is real. Even if the agents said that, that's not an actual legal penalty they can apply. They can deny entry to someone on a visa, but they can't deny entry to a citizen or legal resident. They can keep your device, though.

      https://www.aclutx.org/en/news/can-border-agents-search-your... has a lot of good details.

      • Someone12343 days ago
        I think you replied to the wrong comment. You're talking about citizen's rights and the comment you replied to is purely about non-citizens.
      • huslage3 days ago
        That is not true for non-citizens. Our law is swiss cheese regarding that.
      • snickerdoodle123 days ago
        Your legal rights don't seem to matter all that much when they've decided to ship you off to the gulag in El Salvador.
      • dm3193 days ago
        Or better, just take a different device?
    • root_axis3 days ago
      A more recent development is that you might also risk jail for weeks.
  • neilv3 days ago
    > He claims he was then strip-searched, forced to give blood samples, a facial scan and fingerprints.

    > "Later I was taken back in, and the situation got even worse. I was pushed up against a wall and was strip-searched with a lot of force. They were incredibly harsh and used physical force the whole time," he claimed.

    > "I felt completely devastated and broke down, and was close to crying several times. I was on the verge of panic.

    That sounds worse than being denied entry.

    • BergAndCo2 days ago
      [flagged]
      • queenkjuul2 days ago
        The secret police would surely never lie about their motivations
      • mandmandam2 days ago
        You don't seem to be responding to anything in the parent comment, but it's still worth pointing out: the "admitted drug use" was simply smoking weed while in California a few years ago.
  • legitster3 days ago
    This story sounded a little suspicious, or at least incomplete. It never mentioned why he was singled out by the border agent. Also, ICE would probably not have been involved at all.

    I looked up the article in Norwegian Reddit and someone posted a link to this person's Youtube channel where he shoots guns and (apparently, as I don't speak the language) has made comments about the President. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC68cjx7WTYtXGhC3rLD3N4A

    This could be the long arms of Palantir scanning social media and identifying him as a person of interest.

    But also interesting is the response that Norway's Ministry of Foreign Affairs put out (I checked, this was in response to his specific case):

    > Entry regulations can change at short notice, and it is the traveller's responsibility to have valid documents and be familiar with the current entry regulations. It is the immigration authorities upon arrival who decide whether you are rejected at the border.

    Which seems to hint that the subject arrived in the US without proper paperwork.

    • matsemann3 days ago
      > Which seems to hint that the subject arrived in the US without proper paperwork.

      No, it's just a general statement. Because they can't comment on specific cases.

      Also note, he would not have been allowed to board the plane in Norway if he didn't have the papers in order. They check that before going to that part of the international terminal.

      • account422 days ago
        That's not true, at least hasn't been true for me when travelling to the US from Germany. They check you passport of course and you need to state that you have a valid visa / ESTA / etc. but the departing airport or airline has no way to check that.
    • snickerdoodle123 days ago
      > Which seems to hint that the subject arrived in the US without proper paperwork.

      Ok, so help him fill out the proper paper work. At which point does this justify strip searching and assaulting someone?

      • legitster3 days ago
        Unfortunately, this is common practice at nearly every border crossing for nearly every country (including Norway).
        • snickerdoodle123 days ago
          They might turn you around, but they're not going to beat you up and strip search you for not having the right papers.
          • legitster3 days ago
            https://www.sivilombudet.no/en/news/prevention-torture/body-...

            Norway regularly strip searches suspects, to mostly the same level of standard as other European countries and even the US.

            The grounds they use to determine suspicion might be different, but in both countries a lot of discretion is given to the officers.

            • snickerdoodle122 days ago
              > The grounds they use to determine suspicion might be different

              That's kind of the whole point, isn't it?

          • Tadpole91812 days ago
            Don't forget take his blood against his will!
    • account422 days ago
      CPB says it was because of drug use: https://x.com/CBP/status/1937651325354795444
      • mandmandam2 days ago
        He said himself that's what the legal 'justification' was (not the real reason, which was his documentation of anti-genocide protests) - because he admitted to smoking weed while in California (where it was legal at the time) a few years back.

        I don't get why people keep posting that tweet in this thread as if it justifies what happened. It's insane, and needs to be addressed.

        • account422 days ago
          The tweet is relevant because it refutes the claim that he was denied entry because of a political meme which is what the article implies.

          The legality of weed in the US is quite complicated. It is officially still as illegal as ever at the federal level and those laws are the ones that border control care most about. I never said that being denied entry because of that is "fair" or how things should work but it is not entirely unexpected. The US has historically been very hard on drugs and anyone visting ought to know that. It's best not to test the limits of the laws when you are a guest in a foreign country.

    • mvdtnz3 days ago
      It sounds like when an article is possibly incomplete you just invent your own facts to fill in the gaps.
  • perihelions3 days ago
    I think the other story from earlier this week makes a better anchoring point for discussion[0], thought it's obvious why it was less successful (long-form New Yorker article vs. one funny picture—the funny picture *usually* wins. This is the internet). It's a lot clearer fact-pattern:

    >"“Look, we both know why you are here,” the agent told me. He identified himself to me as Adam, though his colleagues referred to him as Officer Martinez. When I said that I didn’t, he looked surprised. “It’s because of what you wrote online about the protests at Columbia University,” he said."

    [0] https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/how-my-reporting-on-... ("How My Reporting on the Columbia Protests Led to My Deportation")

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44318330

  • supertrope3 days ago
    A teacher in school told me about the time they visited East Germany. Armed guards poked though his luggage. It's a slippery slope toward fascism.
    • mywittyname3 days ago
      We are at the bottom of that slope and are being buried under all of the shit that's continuing to slide down it.
      • propagandist3 days ago
        From slavery to the Chinese exclusion act to Jim Crow to the Japanese internment camps to the patriot act. It's hard to make the case we were anything but.

        What has changed recently is technology collapsing the world into a single blob of information, and that aspect gets worse every year.

        • FredPret3 days ago
          Despite the headline on this article you still have way more freedom and specifically freedom of speech in the US than the rest of us.

          The law works differently at the border, especially for non-citizens. Tourists don't have any legal right to get in. You may argue that the guards should be kinder and I would agree.

          The historical examples you mention involve racism and slavery that were terrible but also the global standard at the time.

          The Patriot Act is scary, but it doesn't seem much better elsewhere in the Anglosphere or in Europe. Say something impolitic loud enough and you'll get in trouble anywhere.

          Here's hoping individual freedoms win in the end.

          • mywittyname3 days ago
            > you still have way more freedom and specifically freedom of speech in the US than the rest of us

            Depends on who "you" are.

            There some some who are allowed to openly make tangible, if thinly veiled death threats to others without repercussions. Others can have their lives ruined over trivial things.

            The "you"s who are not granted as much freedom of speech are aware of it and only express themselves among trusted people.

            • FredPret3 days ago
              There is now an absolute fountain of criticism of the current administration, the USA itself, and the entire West coming from every demographic in the USA. This isn't a new thing or restricted to Trump. I don't see any mass arrests, chilling of media, or official propaganda making the rounds.
              • propagandist2 days ago
                You are not looking. Law firms are targeted and silenced. Media is subservient. People absolutely do watch what they say for a large number of reasons.

                The type of speech being policed is different, but it's absolutely happening.

                • FredPret2 days ago
                  You're right and I don't like it one bit, but there was also a long list of true things that we weren't allowed to say aloud under the previous lot.
                  • propagandist2 days ago
                    Great, glad we agree. I didn't like the precious lot one bit either. Glad they're gone.
              • 3 days ago
                undefined
          • guappa3 days ago
            [dead]
    • wang_li3 days ago
      I went to Canada 10 years ago. When they asked why, I told them I was mailing a birthday gift to a Canadian friend and I wanted to be the one who had to pay any duties or taxes. They had me pull over and go inside. Where they asked the password for my phone and then took it. A couple hours later they came back and gave me my phone, charged me ~$100 and let me go through. When I got to my car I found that they had opened the package I was mailing and a number of things had been moved around, from which I concluded they had also searched my car.

      i drove to Surrey to a UPS Store, resealed and shipped the package and returned to the border. The US Immigration officer asked why I was only in Canada for 30 minutes, I explained, he laughed and sent me on my way.

      Moral of the story is that every country can and will search your stuff and detain you and often turn you back for no meaningful reason.

    • umanwizard3 days ago
      East Germany was not a fascist state, it was an explicitly anti-fascist state.

      Horribly authoritarian, with wanton disregard for human rights, yes, but not "fascist".

      • Alupis3 days ago
        It's yet more evidence almost 0% of the population actually understands what "fascism" really is...
        • umanwizard3 days ago
          Right. Fascism and Soviet Bloc-style communism are both "bad" in the sense that they have tended to produce authoritarian dictatorships that massively increase human misery. But other than that, they are not at all the same ideology.
          • Alupis3 days ago
            The problem is with people labeling anything they dislike as "fascist". Surely we can admit it dilutes the actual meaning of the word by using it to refer to things that are, in-fact, not fascist?
      • smsm423 days ago
        Strictly speaking, yes. It was a totalitarian communist state, though people often use "fascist" to mean any totalitarian state, even if fascism is only one of many ways a totalitarian state can be implemented.
        • umanwizard3 days ago
          > It was a totalitarian communist state, though people often use "fascist" to mean any totalitarian state

          Indeed, but those people are wrong. It would be like calling Jerry Falwell an Islamist extremist. Maybe they are bad for vaguely similar reasons but it is still inaccurate.

          • lupusreal3 days ago
            Quibbling about the flavors about authoritarianism is like quibbling about the flavors of shit. "No no, this is pig shit not chicken shit, it's completely different in a way that is totally irrelevant to the person being forced to eat it."
            • umanwizard3 days ago
              No, words mean things and if you use them randomly people will not take you seriously.

              If you start telling me about how Syria has a serious problem with fundamentalist Baptists I am just going to assume you have no idea what you're talking about.

              • lupusreal3 days ago
                The meaning of words shifts over time. Fascism and authoritarianism are colloquially conflated so often that if you make a stink about somebody calling the GDR fascist, people are going to assume you are either an apologist for the communist flavor of authoritarianism, or an autistic pedant.

                Really, you're just pissing into the wind.

                • umanwizard2 days ago
                  Alright, then what do you think I should call what used to be called “fascism” ? Since it is really quite a different thing from Soviet Block-style communism (even if both are bad!) and so could use a different word to describe it.
                  • disgruntledphd22 days ago
                    Authoritarianism seems to be the correct word.

                    I agree that the term fascist is wildly over-used, to the point where actual fascist behaviours are getting normalised.

                    • umanwizard2 days ago
                      Authoritarian encompasses both Soviet Bloc-style communism as well as what I used to think was called fascism. However the other poster is claiming fascism now means both. So I need another word to describe the specific thing that I used to think was called fascism.
                      • Yeah, I'm with your original definition. I think it's important to distinguish between left wing and right wing authoritarianism as they tend to be quite different.
      • tartoran3 days ago
        Yeah, they were a democracy:) German Democratic Republic (GDR). Same with NK: Democratic People's Republic of Korea
        • umanwizard3 days ago
          They were not a democracy despite what they had in the name. They were also not fascist, which has nothing to do with what was in their name. They were actually not fascist, in the sense that they didn't follow the ideology called "fascism".

          Fascism is a specific ideology invented in Italy in the early 20th century; it does not just mean any authoritarian dictatorship.

          • tartoran3 days ago
            Yes, they were not fascist as an ideology. But I was pointing out the country was a democracy in name only which means whatever one calls themselves or claims to be are not necesarily rooted in reality.
            • umanwizard3 days ago
              You're correct about that, which is why my claim that they were not fascist has nothing to do with what was in their name or whether or not they claimed to be anything. It is based on the fact that in actual reality they did not follow the ideology of fascism.
        • platevoltage3 days ago
          You think you're being clever here. East Germany was essentially the USSR's particular brand of Authoritarianism. No one is making the claim that they were a democracy. Believe it or not, there is a difference between Fascism and Authoritarian Communism.
    • kube-system3 days ago
      Interestingly, as an American, literally the only time I've had my luggage poked through by an armed guard was in a social democracy in Europe.
      • smsm423 days ago
        There's some inspection in practically every transport hub when I travel. While I traveled internationally the most strict was in Germany. I really don't mind a lot - there are good reasons to be careful - but they had guards in full military gear and with automatic weapons (usually it's handguns and plain uniforms) which looked pretty intimidating, and that was the only time I had to actually turn on my laptop to show it's a working laptop and not some kind of trick. Maybe showing how strict and tough they are was the point. The worst inspectors I had were in London. They were exceedingly slow and had very unpleasant manners. Maybe just my luck. Never had any real problems though - worst thing they got a look on my underpants and power connectors, and sent me on my way.
        • kube-system3 days ago
          Yeah, of course most places inspect luggage, but here in the US luggage inspection is done mostly by staff who are not police/military.
          • smsm423 days ago
            There are many more armed services in the US than police/military. Dept. of Education has a SWAT team. Amtrak has armed force. US Park service has one. Really, there are so many of them.
            • kube-system3 days ago
              Those are all examples of police agencies with police powers. This is in contrast to TSA officers screening your luggage, who have no police powers and are not police.

              To add another example to your list -- the TSA also has their own police (e.g. Federal Air Marshal Service), but they don't work the line screening your baggage.

              • smsm422 days ago
                They are not police either. They are just armed men at government service. TSA inspectors in particular are not armed, but that's immaterial - there are other armed government workers around that could be used if needed. Police is only a tiny part of government's armed forces. It is most visible because everybody seen the police drive around, but most people never saw DeptEd SWAT team, but that doesn't change the fact a lot of those exist and are around, just a bit out of sight.
            • umanwizard2 days ago
              Those are police. They can arrest you, unlike the TSA.
      • jccalhoun3 days ago
        Conversely, as an American, the only time I've had my luggage poked through was coming back into the USA. I don't remember if they were armed though.
      • freeone30003 days ago
        The only time that you’ve known of! Fly with locked luggage and see how often that lock stays intact.
        • kube-system3 days ago
          TSA removes locks with bolt cutters, they don't shoot them off.
          • freeone30003 days ago
            … well, yes, but they are armed guards and they are searching your luggage. I feel that’s more relevant than the exact method of lock removal.
            • kube-system3 days ago
              No, the TSA security officers who are inspecting passengers and their luggage do not have arrest powers and are not armed.

              If you are doing something illegal, they call the police, and the police arrest you.

              • freeone30003 days ago
                Does your need to be technically correct outweigh your need to understand an argument?
                • brewdad3 days ago
                  Facts matter and yours are wrong.
                • Freedom23 days ago
                  To be fair, you are on HackerNews.
                • kube-system3 days ago
                  The adjective "armed" in my topmost comment wasn't a technicality, it was the entire point of the anecdote. Do you really think I was saying that the TSA never searches luggage? Obviously the TSA searches a lot of luggage, the thing they don't do is carry guns while doing so.
                  • freeone30003 days ago
                    Right, they have to call the guy with a gun over. Is the problem the luggage search, as in, the invasion of privacy? The explicit threat of force in the absence of immediate compliance? The assumption of guilt for the general populace? The ever-present security state continually looking to oppress?

                    Or is it “huh europe is weird they give their TSA agents guns instead of having the transport security and also airport police?”

                    • kube-system3 days ago
                      It's just an anecdote. I wasn't trying to draw any philosophical conclusions from it.
                • 3 days ago
                  undefined
    • barbazoo3 days ago
      > It's a slippery slope toward fascism.

      Not sure I would ever consider the GDR to have been "fascist".

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany

      • jimbokun3 days ago
        Authoritarianism is the more appropriate term I think.
    • smsm423 days ago
      If border officers being armed or inspecting luggage is a definition of fascism to you, you'd struggle hard to find a lot of non-fascist countries. I have my luggage inspected each time I travel, and a lot of security personnel in airports are armed - are all airports already fascist?
    • gruez3 days ago
      >Armed guards poked though his luggage. It's a slippery slope toward fascism.

      Is it? Lack of rights at the border isn't "fascism", it's the norm. I don't think any country gives you 4th amendment (or similar) rights at the border, even liberal democracies.

      • Alupis3 days ago
        And nearly all "rights" are rights of citizens, not visitors...
        • umanwizard3 days ago
          This is false in every country I know of with even a rudimentary adherence to the rule of law, including the US.
        • Freedom23 days ago
          Is the implication here that lawfully granted visas and green card holders don't have rights in the US?
        • thrance2 days ago
          So foreigners have no rights in the US?? You clearly do not understand the law, at all.
          • Alupis2 days ago
            You clearly do not understand how to read, at all.
    • csense3 days ago
      Armed guards in 1980's East Germany open your luggage and poke through it by hand.

      TSA employees in 2000's USA scan your luggage and poke through it with technology. For any reason or no reason, they can open it up and poke through it by hand, or ask for assistance from nearby policemen with guns.

      Is there any moral difference? If so, what is it?

      (Also, nitpick: The East Germans were Communists, not fascists.)

      • arlort3 days ago
        Yes, the moral difference is in the motivation and consequences.

        We take into account motivation pretty often to evaluate morality not sure why you can't apply it here

        TSA's purpose is prevent harm to other passengers (effectiveness is debatable but not the point), the east German border guards were there to keep control on what information the population could access and share

        They are not the same thing even if the means look the same

        • anal_reactor3 days ago
          So basically, "when we do it it's good, when they do it it's bad"? I didn't think I'd see someone seriously practice such morality on this website.
          • arlort2 days ago
            Is it moral for an ambulance to cut through traffic, run red lights and break speed limits? Is the same moral for drunk teenagers?

            There's no action (and by that I do mean action, not something abstract that involves multiple actions and choices) that won't be moral some times and immoral others. Intent is always to be accounted for. I'd be happy to have counterexamples if you have any in mind

            Also pretty weird to see you infuse a sense of moral superiority to this website of all places

          • Veen3 days ago
            Most morally mature people practice that sort of reasoning. They take into account intentions, likely consequences, the state of knowledge of those involved, and other complicating factors before coming to a conclusion.
            • anal_reactor3 days ago
              I think we have exactly opposite definitions of "moral maturity".
              • Veen3 days ago
                You may be right, anal_reactor.
    • foobarian3 days ago
      It was a lot more invasive than that in those days. The border agents would rifle through our groceries and occasionally things like dried meats or booze would magically go missing. Other times they would be officially confiscated, or customs levied.
    • beambot3 days ago
      East Germany was under communist control after the fascist regime lost the war... It's accurate to describe as "authoritarian", but not "fascist."
      • BurningFrog3 days ago
        For many, everything bad is "fascism", regardless of any similarity to the Mussolini rule of Italy 1922-1943.
      • pmontra3 days ago
        Of course it lacked the mark on the anticommunism checkbox, but control of society and control of economy were checked. That's 50% of the fascist playbook.

        There was probably some nationalism too. Stalin buried internatonalism quickly. They would inevitably bow to the Russian overlords. No shame about it. We were bowing to the USA in the West and we still are.

        Anyway, was communism only a facade by the 70s and the 80s? In that case it was a fully fascist country. All of the East.

        I'd like to hear from somebody who lived in those countries at that time.

      • HideousKojima3 days ago
        [flagged]
      • nocoiner3 days ago
        In fact, East Germany was so anti-fascist they erected the “Anti-Fascist Barrier” around East Berlin.
    • keybored3 days ago
      I think East Germany was the opposite of fascism. At least compared to West Germany.
      • platevoltage3 days ago
        This is what we get when the American right wing conflates the two terms on TV for years and years. Don't like the definition of a word? just change it.
    • tranchebald3 days ago
      The Stasi were communist. Maybe you want to say “authoritarian”?
  • Rebuff50073 days ago
    I vote for a campaign to make sure every single entrant has this meme on their phone.
    • MadnessASAP3 days ago
      You're making a bet that the country with the largest prison system on earth and 5th highest incarceration rate can't arrest all of us.

      You do you but that's gonna be a no for me.

      • thrance2 days ago
        Their prisons are full, which is why the supreme court allowed the administration to deport people wherever is most convenient without due process.
      • mcosta3 days ago
        While the US has the largest prison population, it ranks lower in per capita incarceration rates compared to some other nations. These are El Salvador, Rwanada, Turkmenistan and Cuba.
    • surgical_fire3 days ago
      Thank you but no. I prefer to be safely at home across the pond.

      I don't want to be in some Central American concentration camp when they decide that its time to turn on the ovens.

    • nine_k3 days ago
      Are you volunteering to be one of the entrants, too?
    • CoastalCoder3 days ago
      It would be an interesting application of the Streisand effect.
  • pluc3 days ago
    Hmmm, in what other country is it a punishable offence to make fun of its dear leaders? Thailand? North Korea? Myanmar?

    Like it or not, these countries are who you are being compared to.

  • BurningFrog3 days ago
    Let me just point out that the only source we have for this story is one angry Norwegian.

    The only verified fact is that he was denied entry.

    • mpalmer3 days ago
      It's pretty hard to corroborate a story like this. Everyone has to make their own judgment, but I cannot give the benefit of the doubt to the US government. What reason does this guy have to lie? If he was denied entry because of something actually illegal or non legit, why would he risk this exposure to make something up? If he wasn't denied entry and just decided to fly home and make up the lie, why pay for a vacation?
      • airforce13 days ago
        > What reason does this guy have to lie?

        It might not be 100% lies, it might be "based on a true story". The temptation to embellish/frame yourself as the faultless protagonist is instinctive and there are hundreds of examples of people doing it. Narrative shifts are super common in cases where facts are initially sparse and then more come to light... we don't have the whole context.

      • BurningFrog2 days ago
        It's probably impossible to corroborate this story. But that does not mean we can consider it corroborated!

        One obvious reason to lie is that the real reason is embarrassing. Maybe he has criminal history, porn/nazi/fentanyl docs, what-have-you. Then when people ask why you was denied, you have to say something.

        I'm absolutely not saying that he is lying! Only that we shouldn't blindly trust him.

      • JackFr3 days ago
        A reasonable news outlet would call CBP for a comment.

        Something like "attempts to reach CBP for comment were unsuccessful." goes a long way. It's a tell that they don't. The story is too good not to print.

    • llm_nerd3 days ago
      Given that federal agencies have zero accountability to the legislative branch or the courts, or the constitution for that matter -- something that the constitutionalists suddenly aren't concerned about -- this is the best you're possibly going to get. And this story is hardly alone, and there are many similar tales. Canadians are being asked their position on Trump, which is as sure a demonstration possible that zero Canadians should be travelling to that country for any reason.

      Do you expect the vile dog-shooting sociopath Kristi Noem to speak to this, given it's under her realm of extraordinary incompetence? Maybe she can play dressup to try to get some camera time.

      For years we heard whines and cries about the politicization of government. Well the entire apparatus of the US federal government now wears a red hat and writes an essay declaring fealty to the king. It didn't take much for the country to collapse into a fallen idiocracy/husk of an autocracy, at least as a prelude for the utterly inevitable secessionist movement that is going to kick up to an 11.

    • thrance2 days ago
      Do you ever get tired of spinning narratives in service of the regime? Do you feel like border agents have been acting lawfully and trustfully recently?
  • oceansky3 days ago
    Does even China does that? Go through pics on your personal device at the border? Refuse entry over memes.
    • seanmcdirmid3 days ago
      They have never gone through my phone, although I guess if they wanted to nothing would stop them. The immigration agents don't even ask questions most of the time, heck, I don't even here them speak on most of my entries.
      • raverbashing3 days ago
        China is not worried about who enters. They're worried about who leaves
        • olalonde3 days ago
          They don't ask any questions when you leave either, unless you overstayed your visa. In that case, they just ask you to come back with money to pay the fine. It's actually kind of funny: they don’t detain you or anything, just politely tell you to find an ATM and come back when you have cash to pay the fine.
          • seanmcdirmid3 days ago
            This happened to my wife in Japan when we were trying to board the second try of our flight cancelled the day before. I told them "we don't have any Japanese money, and anyways, this was Delta's fault, so just get them to pay." We sat around for a half hour while they got Delta to pay her fine.
            • account422 days ago
              Do they not have ATMs at the airport? Seems unnecessarily risky to not just take the opportunity to pay the fine as quickly as possible - visa overstays can easily end in detention in many (especially Asian) countries and not just in the US.

              And while the delay might have been the airline's fault and possibly you could have a civil claim against them for damages incurred it is still your responsibility to have a valid Visa and not overstay it and also your responsibility to pay any fines for it (which you may or may not be able to get reimbursed).

              • seanmcdirmida day ago
                They should have taken care of this when they brought us back into Japan after the flight was canceled (they didn’t catch it when the re admitted her into Japan and the visa was invalidated on her way out since it was single entry, and the flight was to the states so most passengers were visa waiver). And anyways, they were so apologetic that I didn’t really doubt that the Delta Japanese ground crew would just take care of it.

                The really sad story is that the flight was canceled a second time after that drama, and we were really feeling a lot of emotions over that debacle. Suffice it to say we’ve sworn off delta for awhile.

            • throwawaysleep2 days ago
              I’m impressed that was successful.
          • account422 days ago
            I don't know about about the specifics in China but amnesty for short overstays if they don't catch you on the street for it but you are actually trying to leave is not uncommon in the region. Longer overstays especially when not self-reported can easily end in detention though.
            • seanmcdirmida day ago
              This was a paper work snafu, she was re-admitted into Japan by immigration officers after her visa was invalidated (because it was single entry and they cancelled the flight after we went through emigration). So it’s not like the violation was intentional or even avoidable.

              China gives you a ten year unlimited entry visa, so it’s pretty hard to screw that up.

        • seanmcdirmid3 days ago
          They don't really speak then either, but ya, emigration checks is one thing that most countries have but the USA lacks for some reason.
    • olalonde3 days ago
      Nope, they barely even talk to you. I've crossed the Chinese border literally hundreds of times, mostly from Hong Kong. They usually don’t ask anything and if they do, it's just a basic "What's the purpose of your visit?" I’ve never had my bags searched or been sent to secondary inspection. Even crossed with one barefoot once (long story) and wasn't even asked about it.

      In contrast, my worst border experiences have been in the U.S. and Canada (and I've traveled to over 30 countries).

      In the US, I was nearly denied entry at SFO while on a valid TN visa simply because I didn't have a business card with me. The officer also referred to my wife as a "Chinese bitch" - within earshot (this happened during the Obama years). I had to let them handle my phone a bit to verify work emails, etc. But they didn't really search through it beyond that.

      In Canada, I was sent to secondary inspection, had my bags searched, and was asked to show the photos on my phone. I was questioned for over an hour and they never told me the reason for it. It felt like they suspected me of smuggling drugs because the guy kept asking me what I had for breakfast... I'm Canadian btw and don't do drugs.

      • account422 days ago
        > They usually don’t ask anything and if they do, it's just a basic "What's the purpose of your visit?" I’ve never had my bags searched or been sent to secondary inspection.

        FWIW in the US you usually also don't get asked more than that (not including questions on you Visa / visa exempt application) and searches are not standard procedure that everyone goes through.

    • paxys3 days ago
      Have been to China multiple times and no, this does not happen.
      • gruez3 days ago
        To be fair something that makes the news isn't necessarily indicative of the median experience either. If US and China both looked through 0.1% of traveler's phones, that'd be both compatible with horror stories making the news, and widespread anecdotes of "weird, never happened to me".
        • TheOtherHobbes3 days ago
          US visa applicants are required to disclose five years of social media history and to make listed accounts public.

          https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/20...

          • gruez3 days ago
            >disclose five years of social media history

            Where does it say that? Your source only says profiles need to be public

            Moreover your description is slightly misleading because it only applies to "all applicants for F, M, and J nonimmigrant visas", which notably excludes tourism visas (B-2). The visas listed all seem to be academic related, presumably because the administration wants to crack down on woke ivy league students or whatever.

    • knorker3 days ago
      Not when I went there. I needed a lot of paperwork for the visa at their embassy, and to surrender my passport for a few days, and a signed statement from my employer that I was not a journalist of any kind.

      I got in. I was sent to some form of secondary screening, but they apparently couldn't find anybody who could speak English, so they just let me in.

      Edit: I'm from a rich western country, in case it matters for anybody getting an understanding of who gets treated what way.

      • AnotherGoodName3 days ago
        I did get a weird interaction in China fwiw. Let in fine but at one point i sat down to have lunch at a restaurant and 2 English speaking police officers sat down at my table and started asking if i was doing well etc. I just chatted making sure not to say anything negative about the government, talked about tourist sites and they left, they were fine, no issue. Just a weird interaction.

        I guess it's a routine part of China's paranoia. They definitely do do weird things to check if tourists are causing trouble in some way i guess. I imagine that sort of interaction alone would scare off trouble makers and it's probably effective honestly.

        • rfoo3 days ago
          Contrary to common belief, it's fine to say negative things about the government in this case, as long as you are not Chinese. They may argue with you (or laugh at you for some even weirder reasons) and you both may have an unpleasant conversation, but that's it.
        • csa3 days ago
          > I guess it's a routine part of China's paranoia. They definitely do do weird things to check if tourists are causing trouble in some way i guess.

          I’m guessing you actually did something suspicious or illegal without realizing it.

          A common and simple example of this is taking pictures where it’s technically forbidden — airports, military buildings (these aren’t always obvious to visitors), religious sites, etc.

          Another example would be interacting with a person of interest. This could be a Chinese person that they are watching, or a foreigner that they are keeping tabs on (e.g., embassy staff that they suspect of being an agent).

          As a tourist, you probably wouldn’t notice these things or even be aware that they are a red flag.

          • csa2 days ago
            … or they wanted to practice their English.
      • nine_k3 days ago
        Did they check your social media accounts? Did these accounts contain any memes involving the current PRC administration?
        • knorker3 days ago
          I don't recall them asking for any social media at any point. But I don't have Facebook, tiktok, instagram, snapchat, grinder, myspace, or other muggle social media.

          I of course wouldn't know if they tried to find my profiles.

          • nine_k3 days ago
            BTW not having profiles on mugg^W normie social media may be sometimes considered a red flag by itself, so I keep e.g. a reasonable Facebook profile, without posting anything.
            • account422 days ago
              YMMV but at least for US entry just listing GitHub (it's one of the options in the ESTA application) hasn't caused any "random" inspections for me so I'm not sure how much of a flag it really is on its own.
    • badgersnake3 days ago
      Not in my experience. They check your passport and your visa. Didn’t go anywhere near my phone. I wouldn’t be sharing Winnie the Pooh memes on WeChat though.
    • iLoveOncall3 days ago
      I'm sure it happens, and they also don't systematically check phones when entering the US, it's probably exceedingly rare and I've never witnessed it despite travelling to the US 3 times since Trump got elected.

      Case in point this is only the 2nd story ever to come out about someone being detained / refused entry for content that was on their phone since Trump is president.

    • throwawayq34233 days ago
      Yes they do, once you connect to cell service in China your data is comprised. As well as unlawful detentions and exit bans.

      But we don't talk about that for whatever reason.

    • throwawaysleep3 days ago
      Visited PRC several times. They didn’t even ask much of a reason for my visit beyond “tourism”.
  • DocTomoe3 days ago
    My employer has had a "no visiting the US with your real hardware, get a burner phone / a burner laptop from our IT department" for years now. The only other countries that have that kind of rule are Myanmar and Iran.

    The US is not a friendly country, not even to allies.

  • NorwegianDude3 days ago
    I had planned a trip that included the US for this summer, but the fact that they can demand the password for my devices is the main reason im not going. Having to wipe devices before travel and having to download data again because people dont respect privacy and others suck.

    The fact that you have to get approved before traveling(that is fine), and then can be denied entry when you arrive for no logical reason is absurd. Visiting the US is simply not worth the risk and hassle.

    Its crazy when you expect your privacy to be more respected in China.

  • whirlwin3 days ago
    The US is becoming more and more like the Soviet union was at some point - truly authoritarian. The same would possibly also happen in China of you had a picture of Xi Jinping. It's fascinating that "the land of the free" has come to this.
  • jwkerr3 days ago
    Is this a reputable source? Is it a coincidence that the subject shares the name Mads Mikkelsen, or is this just bad reporting?
  • discoutdynamite3 days ago
    The other picture showed Mads with a wooden pipe which he had made years prior

    This is really why. Any evidence or suspicion of drug use or paraphenalia is a major offense. Even it they attempted to justify or explain it, its a major rejection criteria. Ive heard of several denials for suspicions of marijuana use, "DUDE WEED" memes and the like. They are really going hard on anything that looks like illicit substance use.

    • guax3 days ago
      Funnily enough weed is more legal in the US than Norway.
  • mvdtnz3 days ago
    USA is a country I have always wanted to visit. No more. I will never set foot in your country simply because I refuse to deal with your border force. There are plenty of other countries out there that won't treat me like a criminal. Have you ever dealt with Japanese border staff? They could hardly be more grateful to welcome you.
    • airforce13 days ago
      ...unless you run afoul of any of their many obscure laws, even unintentionally. I had a relative travel to Japan with his family. He's into locksport (watches Lock Picking Lawyer, etc). He had some lock picking paraphernalia on his person that he forgot about since he just carries it around 24/7 without thinking about it. Long story short, they were discovered in a metal detector at some point and Japanese security whisked him away to an interrogation room. He tried to explain locksport and youtube but the Japanese police were incredulous. He spent a full day in Japanese detention (leaving his wife and kids stranded in Tokyo without him) and at one point it was looking like he might be facing more serious charges, but then luckily someone from an American military base was able to bail him out somehow.
      • mvdtnz3 days ago
        This doesn't seem like an "obscure" law to me. In fact if this is a hobby of yours I would expect you to understand that it's not legal in a number of places.
        • airforce13 days ago
          It was an honest mistake, especially for someone who rarely travels.

          It could happen to anyone in a country where possessing lock picks is not a criminal act. For example, your sibling might get you some picks in credit card form factor one year for Christmas. You put them in your wallet and forget about them. You travel a bit within the USA and nobody cares. Then years later you travel to Japan and are whisked away to jail because of a thing you forgot about in your wallet. The Japanese don't understand why an innocent civilian would ever have such a thing; therefore you must be a nefarious criminal.

  • nelsonfigueroa3 days ago
    Jeez...is the current administration that sensitive to criticism? I wonder if this comment will come back to haunt me some day.
    • theyinwhy3 days ago
      It's anticipatory obedience, "a situation where one attempts to predict expectations others (particularly superiors) have, without explicit communication, and to fulfill (or exceed) those expectations.", see https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/anticipatory_obedience
    • Arubis3 days ago
      Perhaps the most consistent common thread of despotic and tyrannical types is a complete absence of a sense of humor.
    • DocTomoe3 days ago
      Most likely, this wasn’t official policy — just a low-paid border agent on a personal power trip. Give a man a uniform, and watch him turn tyrant. The Stanford Prison Experiment says hello.

      The real problem is that the US system allows individuals with minimal training and virtually no oversight to wield unchecked power over travelers' lives.

    • AdamN3 days ago
      This is really just the essence of bureaucracy - which is the problem with these rules that sounds fine if you don't think about the implementation of them.

      Trump himself probably wouldn't care (which is why he thinks these rules are fine - he knows what should be a jailable offense) but of course the bureaucracy needs to make rules that any of the thousands of border guards can follow. The outcome is a bullwhip effect and you get this (or worse).

      • SV_BubbleTime3 days ago
        What was he like when you spent time with him?
  • keerthiko3 days ago
    from the article:

    > "They threatened me with a minimum fine of $5,000 or five years in prison if I refused to provide the password to my phone."

    this isn't real/legal/enforceable (as the law currently stands) is it? how does one protect ourselves against this turn of events upon entry when the immigration officer's claim fails the smell test?

    • ethan_smith3 days ago
      CBP has broad search authority at borders without warrants, and while they can't criminally charge you for refusing to unlock your device, they can deny entry, seize the device, and ban you from future entry - effectively making the "5 years in prison" threat misleading but the practical consequences still severe.
      • brewdad3 days ago
        In layman’s terms we don’t call that misleading. It is false. Perhaps an outright lie.
    • AdamN3 days ago
      ?? This has been called out for more than a decade I think. Within 100 miles of the border CBP has broad discretion and rights are limited in these types of circumstances.
      • anigbrowl3 days ago
        The question is about the threat of a $5000 fine/5 years of prison, not whether CBP can conduct inspections.
        • 3 days ago
          undefined
    • arlort3 days ago
      By not travelling to the US if you're not willing to do it

      Don't see how it wouldn't be legal as long as the target of the request isn't a citizen

    • tristor3 days ago
      IANAL, but I would expect that it's extremely unlikely to be fined or imprisoned when you can simply be deported prior to entry. Technically until you pass through border control, you aren't "in" the country you are traveling to, so they can simply refuse entry and deport you.
  • United8573 days ago
    I’m no fan of the current administration but this is one person’s account so inherently 1 sided. I just flew in from Europe and most people were not searched. US border control don’t have time to systemically search the phones of all travelers. I’m guessing some other red flag triggered the questioning and phone search and denial (eg no return ticket or accommodation booked).
    • eviks3 days ago
      Why is it less credible than your inherently 0 sided guess?
      • Veen3 days ago
        Because people of all political persuasions tell lies for attention and to support their political agenda. It is sensible to withhold judgment until there is sufficient information to make a reasonable determination on the balance of probabilities. That may mean witholding your righteous indignation for a day or two, but that's a price worth paying.
        • eviks3 days ago
          Except in reality judgment wasn't withheld, so your template doesn't fit.
    • nine_k3 days ago
      Indeed, a clear indication that the meme was the reason, or at least part of the reason, to deny admission would have a very serious weight, and hopefully grounds for the reversal of the decision, and a disciplinary action.
      • Ar-Curunir3 days ago
        You are talking about the US administration here, which is currently making up rules as it pleases based on the whims of a geriatric maniac, and where masked kidnappers are abducting people off the streets without repercussion. None of what you said is likely to happen.
        • nine_k3 days ago
          I agree that the top of the administration is plenty rotten, but I still believe that rank-and-file people in governmental agencies did not lose their dignity, at least those who had it.
    • chasd003 days ago
      at the very end of the article there's a statement from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that contains "..and it is the traveller's responsibility to have valid documents and be familiar with the current entry regulations." which makes me believe there's more to the story.
    • pstuart3 days ago
      It lines up with other reports for the same general issue, and also jibes with how the admin itself deals with criticism.
      • account422 days ago
        It does line up - in the other reports and this one there were facts conveniently omitted.
      • IAmBroom3 days ago
        "Evidence? When it supports our assumptions? Bah!"
        • perching_aix3 days ago
          Yeah, expecting a governmental agency to produce evidence that will negatively impact their political standing is a very reasonable request indeed. Or expecting evidence from a person who was stripped of all their devices. How silly these people are for working with what they have. They even lie about how much and what quality of information is it that they possess... oh wait, no they don't, you're just being a jackass. Well ain't that unfortunate.
    • tc3133 days ago
      > it is the traveller's responsibility to have valid documents and be familiar with the current entry regulations

      This response from the Norwegian foreign office makes it seem like the man lacked proper documentation, which led to the search. However, it’s unclear to me whether the comment is specific to this case or just a general statement.

      • hermanzegerman3 days ago
        Bullshit. They won't let you board a plane heading towards the US without a valid ESTA/Visum and Passport
        • account422 days ago
          The airline and airport have no way to check your Visa or ESTA status.
          • hermanzegerman2 days ago
            Wrong. DHS tells the Airlines your ESTA Status, so they won't let you board if you don't have a valid one. And if you don't have one, the Airlines will check for a Visa

            "DHS communicates a traveler’s ESTA status to the carriers. However, DHS recommends that travelers print out the ESTA application response as a record of their ESTA application number to confirm their ESTA status."

            https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/esta/frequ...

            They also have DHS Agents on the departure Airports, which already tell the Airlines which Passengers aren't allowed to board. If the Airlines violate against this, they face severe consequences like a ban from US Airspace

            https://netzpolitik.org/2014/bundesregierung-beauskunftet-re...

  • Havoc3 days ago
    Lots of other countries to explore. I'll revisit this in 4 years by then we'll also know if US democracy is still a thing
    • mvdtnz3 days ago
      I won't be reconsidering in four years. The American people have shown who they are. Like you say, plenty of other countries to visit.
  • mensetmanusman3 days ago
    Looking further into the story from other sources commenting and there are no other corroborating sources.

    Have been lied to too many times by the media with stories like these to believe them at first glance.

  • airforce13 days ago
    Surprised this story has not been flagged as it's essentially political flamebait - an uncorroborated, unverifiable account from a single person trashing the current US administration and causing everyone to pile on their hot takes and equally unverifiable and possibly embellished anecdotes.
    • SV_BubbleTime3 days ago
      Justifies the popular ideology here. Why would it need evidence or corroboration? The bubble has decided.
  • bix63 days ago
    That’s not JD Vance it’s Marc Andreessen!
    • throw48472853 days ago
      Head is not egg shaped enough.
    • FeteCommuniste3 days ago
      Nah, the top of the head isn't pointy enough for it to be Andreessen.
  • tasuki3 days ago
    I kind of get all the other stuff, horrid, yes, but ok: US is a barbarian state.

    But what is it with refusing water? Hydration is extremely important. I'm never voluntarily going near any situation which could result in me being refused water.

  • BrandoElFollito2 days ago
    I used to travel all over the world from mid 90's to late 00's. Including about once a month to the US from Europe and Asia.

    I am French, white, blue-eyed, it was business travel in business or first class.

    I never understood why the US border was so hostile to visitors. Equal to the Russian border if not worse.

    The US used to be an immigrants country, built by these immigrants. So why the hostility against foreigners? Their parents or grand parents were in the same spot, usually way worse wealth-wise.

    Middle East entries were the best - sometimes slow, chaotic but always enjoyable. Europe was with bored agents who did not give a shit.

    After one last trip my children begged for (the landscapes in the US are indeniably wonderful) I stopped going to the US, mostly because of a vague fear of being arrested for no reason. I felt like in a dictatorship country (but worse than in the ME where there predicability).

    In Europe you can get in trouble, but it is soft. You have to fight the bureaucracy but that's more or less all.

  • Disposal84333 days ago
    Going to the USA as a tourist might be the most stupid action that one can make at this time. Unless you have a dying mother or father, there is absolutely no reason to visit this country. It reminds me of the tourists that used to go to North Korea for fun some years ago, it never was a good idea.
    • Findecanor3 days ago
      I expect this British man [0] to have cancelled this family trip to Miami now, after having found a picture online of his tattoo with his daughter's date and time of birth being published by the ICE as an example of a "Venezuelan gang tattoo".

      0. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o

      • Bhilai3 days ago
        Elect a clown, expect a circus.
        • 3 days ago
          undefined
    • platevoltage3 days ago
      I'd go further and say that going to the USA as a tourist unethical at this point. Keeping your money out the USA is the best thing you can do for the USA and the world right now.
      • tremon3 days ago
        Sadly, both FIFA and the IOC are still trying very hard to bring their money and tourists to the USA (World Cup 26 and Olympics 28).
    • lenerdenator3 days ago
      > Going to the USA as a tourist might be the most stupid action that one can make at this time.

      I can think of several things that are more stupid, and for better or worse, border guards are dicks in a lot of countries.

    • rhcom23 days ago
      This is chilling to more than just tourists. I have friends who are Mexican nationals who now have to consider any meme on their phone before their way back to the States after visiting home.
      • RemainsOfTheDay2 days ago
        Because they are not American nationals.

        My last border crossing, a few days ago: "What was the purpose of your travel? ... What are you bringing back with you? ... Welcome home." Took one minute.

        • rhcom220 hours ago
          Good for you I guess but my point was lawful permanent residents shouldn't have to worry about memes on their phones.
    • SXX3 days ago
      Tbh even visiting much more authoritorian countries can be quite a pleasant experience as foreigner. As long as you not plan to work or become permanent resident they usually nicer to foreigners than to locals.

      With exception of might be Russia very few of such countries actually ever arrest tourists. Worst that can happen they'll send you out and ban for life.

      Being a citizen of authoritorian country is another story...

    • beej713 days ago
      Our friend from Norway (who is not a terrorist) already cancelled their US vacation plans before this story for exactly the reasons spelled out within it. We'll miss seeing them, but we get it.
      • account422 days ago
        [flagged]
        • beej71a day ago
          Well the United States is the one losing out on that tourist money.
    • RemainsOfTheDay2 days ago
      Are the grapes sour?
    • deadbabe3 days ago
      [flagged]
      • JKCalhoun3 days ago
        > You know what the problem is with the world? Too many tourists.

        Not even in my Top 100.

        • deadbabe19 hours ago
          It should be. Because at the end of the day tourism is the motivation for many of the problems today: soaring rents due to AirBnBs, environmental damage from air travel and cruise ships flooding small cities daily, people blowing money on travel instead of saving and investing, tourism jobs keeping wages suppressed…
      • platevoltage3 days ago
        "I don't like going other places, so I don't think other people should go there places either"
        • deadbabe3 days ago
          Well traveling the world is a privilege, not a right. And if you go somewhere you should have a reason other than just sightseeing.
          • platevoltage3 days ago
            Thats the dumbest thing I've heard today.
    • EA-31673 days ago
      In 2023, when tourism rates had yet to fully recover from Covid, over 66 million people visited the US from abroad. I don't have more recent statistics, but I'm going to assume that the number is the same or higher this year.

      Out of that population which could fill a decent-sized country, how many people have been treated so unfairly as the one in this article? How do those stats compare with other countries, and the inevitable abuses that occur in any vast bureaucracy?

      It's possible to oppose the current US administration and still retain your rationality.

      • jajuuka3 days ago
        https://theconversation.com/tourism-to-the-us-is-tanking-fli...

        Nope, tourism is tanking. There are numerous stories about tourists being detained for little to no reason and eventually deported.

        Travel warnings from various international orgs like Amnesty International and other governments have been mounting since 2019. It also doesn't help when the president attacks the country that makes up a large portion of tourist like Canada.

      • lol7683 days ago
        > In 2023, when tourism rates had yet to fully recover from Covid, over 66 million people visited the US from abroad. I don't have more recent statistics, but I'm going to assume that the number is the same or higher this year.

        World Travel & Tourism Council says international visitor spending is going to drop by $12.5bn this year (down 22.5%).

      • jmorenoamor3 days ago
        Forcing you to hand your phone password and expose all your personal intimacy, or face prision, even when the chances are low, is quite a risk.

        Even this comment in HN could put me into problems if the guard considers it harmful.

        If a funny pic of a politician can put you into prision, the probably some messages you write in a WhatsApp group with friends, discussing world news, could mean serious problems.

      • pixelesque3 days ago
        I doubt it's that high with loads of Canadians not visiting the US.

        I planned last year to stop off in Hawaii and Seattle on the way from NZ to the UK this May, but in March this year I altered that and just did Vancouver instead as the stop-off.

        I know several friends and colleages who have also done similar (even two didn't go to weddings of friends in the US).

        • izolate3 days ago
          You're exaggerating the significance of Canadians in US tourism statistics. NY and MA have larger populations than ON and QC, Canada's two largest provinces. Therefore, even "loads" is a relatively small number.
          • brewdad3 days ago
            A lot of Canadian “tourism” isn’t of the stay in a series of hotels for two weeks variety. It’s cross the border to attend a concert or sporting event. Grab a bite to eat and stock up at Walmart/Costco/<insert favorite store here> before heading home. Sales at the Costco nearest the border with BC were down 20% at the same time Costco was seeing increased sales nationwide.
          • jjkaczor3 days ago
            Then why are all the border states, towns and cities (and their elected representatives) begging Canadian tourists to come back, with endless advertisements, appeals to our historic friendship, temporarily re-naming streets ("Canada Street", really? Can't wait for the photo-op of an ICE raid happening there) and even silly incentives (like a 3-pack of free golf balls in one case)...?

            Yeah, good luck downplaying the 12+ billion the US tourism industry is about to lose this year.

            • RemainsOfTheDay2 days ago
              And how much is the Canadian tourism industry losing?

              Stop measuring dicks with America. It has a much larger population and economy, so you cannot win.

              • jjkaczora day ago
                Hahahaha... we will get the run-off from people that no longer want to deal with your "border", I think we will be just fine.

                Searching for projections seems to indicate that our tourism industry will definitely be growing:

                Canadian tourism is expected to increase in 2025. Key points include:

                Canadian travel demand surged by 61% year-over-year, reflecting growing interest in adventure and sustainable tourism. 67% of Canadians plan to travel more in 2025, with many prioritizing lesser-visited destinations. Morocco and Egypt are increasingly popular among Canadian travelers seeking cultural immersion. Solo travel is on the rise, with 1 in 4 Canadians planning their first solo adventure. A devalued Canadian dollar could provide a significant boost to the sector by attracting more foreign visitors and their spending. Canada's revenue in the Travel & Tourism market is predicted to reach US$17.42bn in 2025, with a steady annual growth rate of 2.25%. Evolving domestic spending patterns are also contributing to measured growth in Canada's tourism industry.

                Enjoy your fascist country - it is truly the "most free", right? Right?

      • TheOtherHobbes3 days ago
        What percentage of unnecessary and abusive jailings would you - as a rational person - consider acceptable?
        • umanwizard3 days ago
          (Not the person you originally replied to).

          Zero, but that's not the same question. If something I think is unacceptable happens at a low rate, the fact that I think it's bad doesn't mean it's necessarily rational to change one's travel plans because of it, if the rate is low enough.

          If I go to Iceland, there is some nonzero chance I'll be killed in a surprise volcanic eruption, but I wouldn't let that deter me from visiting Iceland.

          The relatively high violent crime rate in US cities which was already present before the current administration is already a much more real reason not to visit the US than authoritarian border guards, although I'd argue even that would be a bit exaggerated.

          • Marsymars3 days ago
            > The relatively high violent crime rate in US cities which was already present before the current administration is already a much more real reason not to visit the US than authoritarian border guards, although I'd argue even that would be a bit exaggerated.

            As a tourist doing tourist things in the US, your risk of being involved in a violent crime is notably lower than an average US citizen, and your risk of being involved with a border guard is notably higher.

            • umanwizard3 days ago
              Yes, that's true, but what's the base rate of each?
          • dendrite93 days ago
            I was curious about how likely deaths actually are from Volcanoes in Iceland. It looks like 15 deaths in the last 500 years with an unknown number possibly in the hundreds in the 500 years before that. But also ~9000 deaths due to famine in from farmland and livestock destruction.
          • anigbrowl3 days ago
            some nonzero chance I'll be killed in a surprise volcanic eruption

            Why would you compare an unpredictable natural risk with one stemming from human behavior and government policy? This is like saying speeding limits are a bad idea because some people are killed by lightning.

            • x86_64Ubuntu3 days ago
              Because when we use a natural risk, we remove the fact that it's actual policy put forth and implemented by humans. Otherwise, the ideology will always be brought into question, while volcanos don't have an ideology that can conflict with itself.
            • umanwizard3 days ago
              The point of analogies isn't to claim that the two things being compared are exactly identical, it's to draw attention to the ways in which they're similar that are relevant to the point being discussed.

              By the way, I never said anything like "power tripping pro-MAGA border guards are okay because there are volcanoes in Iceland", so your lightning vs. speed limits analogy isn't relevant.

              • anigbrowl2 days ago
                Nonsense. Your presence in Iceland or not has no influence on whether a volcano there erupts, whereas a sharp drop in tourism is a market signal that may influence policy in the future (not necessarily under the same administration).
                • ben_w2 days ago
                  Conversely, a sharp drop in tourism to Iceland is a market signal that a something along the lines of "volcano has exploded" has happened (what with there currently being few other reasons for such a drop), and "a tourist was killed when a volcano exploded" has a non-zero chance of modifying Iceland's tourism policies.
                • umanwizard2 days ago
                  The original post of this subthread:

                  > Going to the USA as a tourist might be the most stupid action that one can make at this time. Unless you have a dying mother or father, there is absolutely no reason to visit this country. It reminds me of the tourists that used to go to North Korea for fun some years ago, it never was a good idea.

                  did not claim that one has a moral obligation to avoid the US, but rather tried to claim that it was stupid to do so from a purely rational perspective.

                  It’s the latter point I disagree with. People who avoid the US due to the possibility of personal harm by border guards are being irrational (unless perhaps they’re prominent pro-Palestinian activists).

                  I never said there’s no reason not visit the US. Avoiding it as a political protest against the current administration is a perfectly decent reason! But that’s not what was originally claimed.

        • SV_BubbleTime3 days ago
          Are we talking confirmed? Or Clickbait title?
      • ordinaryradical3 days ago
        Sure, but if they’re detaining people because the officers are personal fans of JD Vance those ICE officers need to be fired. Like now. It’s unacceptable whether it’s 1 in a million or 1 in 10.

        The numbers are not a principle.

        • dragonwriter3 days ago
          > Sure, but if they’re detaining people because the officers are personal fans of JD Vance those ICE officers need to be fired. Like now.

          Pedantic, but if it is at entry rather than chasing people down afterwards, its probably CBP, not ICE. (CBP also does some chasing down afterward, too.)

        • RemainsOfTheDay2 days ago
          They are not detaining them. They are refusing them entry, housing them and sending them back. Every country has the right to choose who they admit.

          And we don't really whether the JD Vance meme wasn't just the frosting on the cake. All we have is the tourist's word.

      • dragonwriter3 days ago
        > In 2023, when tourism rates had yet to fully recover from Covid, over 66 million people visited the US from abroad. I don't have more recent statistics, but I'm going to assume that the number is the same or higher this year.

        Given the repeated reports of international carriers cutting US routes due to lack of demand this year, I wonder why you would assume that the numbers this year are the same as two years ago?

        > It's possible to oppose the current US administration and still retain your rationality.

        Waving off new abuses isn't rationality (it's also not opposing the current administration, but the opposite, carrying water for them.)

      • Tade03 days ago
        This is unheard of anywhere in the developed world. Security at airports simply doesn't have this sort of power outside the US.
        • lenerdenator3 days ago
          That's simply not true.

          Ask people who have tried going to Canada from the US how welcoming border guards can be at their ports of entry. Say the wrong thing or try to cross with the wrong thing (in my friend's case, it was a set of tools used to repair electronics) and they will try to jam you up and deny entry.

          • Fluorescence3 days ago
            I've faced the repair tools things in Europe. No meanness besides taking most of them.

            I managed to save a few by arguing how ineffective as weapons they would be and then watch as two security staff try their best to pinch each other with wire strippers.

          • lupusreal3 days ago
            Yup. They asked me what guns I had in the vehicle. Totally fair. I said none and expected they might want to search the vehicle, which would have been totally fair as well. But they weren't interested in that anymore, they started asking what kind of guns I and my passenger had at home. None, for me again, but my passenger admitted to having some at home 500 miles away. He later said he felt compelled to be honest because he didn't know what databases they might be hooked into. The border guard then began grilling him about the kinds of guns he had, what their purpose was, why he would own them, etc etc. Asshole invasive questions that served no purpose. I think the border guard just saw an opportunity to needle an American for being American. At least they let us through after that. They never searched the car, clearly they didn't have any legitimate concern about anything.
          • nemomarx3 days ago
            I've crossed into Canada multiple times and never had the guards comment on anything, personally? Was this a very recent thing and has there been a change in policy?
            • stackskipton3 days ago
              Just like US CBP, it depends on who you run into and the mood they are in. 10 years ago, I found cheap flights to Toronto from my city. When I got to Canadian Immigration, they asked, "Where are your guns?" and I said "I guess at home" just because it's a weird question that caught me off guard.

              Canadian Border Guards then lectured me about responsible gun ownership, tore about my bags going "Since you don't keep track of your guns, let's find out if they are in your bags", went through my iPad movie content and finally was like "Ok, you are clear".

              I've been back multiple times and since then, Scan Passport Check Computer STAMP PASSPORT Welcome to Canada.

            • SauciestGNU3 days ago
              I'm an American citizen, and when I cross into Canada I'm greeted courteously and professionally. I've never been pulled to secondary screening and I've never had a hostile interaction.

              However, when returning to the United States, even as a citizen (born, not naturalized), I have frequently faced questioning about my social graph, who specifically I have contacted, and things of that nature. I thought it was one dickhead guard in Vermont, but it keeps happening.

        • kube-system3 days ago
          Airport security might not, but this is border control, which has the authority to deny entry in every country.
        • umanwizard3 days ago
          > Security at airports simply doesn't have this sort of power outside the US.

          No qualms with your actual point, but immigration/customs is not the same thing as airport security, sorry but it's my pet peeve when people conflate them.

        • isaacremuant3 days ago
          [flagged]
      • abnercoimbre3 days ago
        Ah yes let's ignore tech conferences like H.O.P.E. [0] or even my own [1] suffering drastic setbacks due to international attendance dropping off a cliff.

        We should just lecture our audience to keep their head on straight and come travel.

        [0] https://archive.is/QWmxO

        [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44084767

      • stanmancan3 days ago
        We used to take two annual trips to the US, and cross the border every 4-6 weeks to shop, eat, and fill up our gas on the way home.

        We haven't been there since this current administration took over, and have no plans on it until something changes.

        Trumps comments regarding Canada, and the whole "51st state" rhetoric triggered the decision, but these stories absolutely play a part in it. I'm not about to put myself, or my family, in a position where someone might be detained for anywhere from days to weeks for no reason.

        There's a big, beautiful world out there, and plenty of countries who are happy to have us and take our tourist dollars, all without me having to worry about getting detained for silly pictures on my phone. It's a pretty easy decision if you ask me.

        • promptdaddy3 days ago
          So sad that one little man can affect your view of an entire place. The tone of this thread really pins Trump as a true King.
          • jjkaczor3 days ago
            So sad that the policies and actions implemented by the current "regime" can affect the views of people that are not living there, or perhaps you just haven't been paying attention to the news since February 2025...
            • promptdaddy3 days ago
              The world might be much better off if we could remember that a place is that place, not just the few rich people who own the guns and the news.
              • jjkaczor2 days ago
                Places are filled with people... 70 million of whom wanted this nonsense and another 90 million too apathetic to vote, so willing to accept whatever the incoming administration would be.

                Sure - America is a beautiful country, and people that I had met while on vacations and business trips were all very nice - I have driven thousands of miles (to/from Las Vegas from AB, Florida from ON) and never had a bad experience. But - unfortunately, the current political and cultural climate down there is just a little too "hot" - I hope it works out for the average person, but I don't have high hopes.

          • stanmancan2 days ago
            It’s not just one man, it’s also the millions of individuals who voted for him.
      • keybored3 days ago
        > I don't have more recent statistics, but I'm going to assume that the number is the same or higher this year.

        Why would you?

        > Out of that population which could fill a decent-sized country, how many people have been treated so unfairly as the one in this article? How do those stats compare with other countries, and the inevitable abuses that occur in any vast bureaucracy?

        Most people have an opinion about the US. They might have shared it on social media.

        For comparison, the government of Turkey might care if you have insulted Erdoğan on social media (I don’t know; they might). But chances are you want to travel to Turkey while not having strong enough opinions to have flamed Erdoğan on social media. People care more about what they can see in Turkey; foreigners objectively spend more time on US political news than they spend thinking about the US national parks.

        • guappa3 days ago
          I'm quite sure that turkish police doesn't have time to waste checking the social accounts of people.
          • RemainsOfTheDay2 days ago
            ROTFL.

            I'm quite sure that's their main job, finding out who are the adversaries of the regime.

            • guappa2 days ago
              Do you have any sources of them actually doing it or is it just a feeling?
  • mellosouls3 days ago
    Obviously if it is true this is ridiculous and condemnable but it would be nice to have more supporting evidence than this report.
    • SpaceL10n3 days ago
      Indeed. The only information we seem to have is the report this young man provided to his local newspaper. There are no corroborating witnesses or evidence thus far that I can find that confirm this incident actually occurred.
  • Vortigaunt3 days ago
    Isn't it interesting how this post has more votes than anything else on the first page, is one hour old, and is currently on page 4. Seems like there's some interesting censorship going on in this website outside the consistent flagging of material deemed wrong-think.
  • cadamsdotcom3 days ago
    The job of border control people is risky as hell. Let in the wrong person, and they’ll trace it back to you. Deny the right person and you can spin it as patriotism.

    There’s no recourse if you’re uncertain. You can’t wave over a manager - you’re expected to process the huge queue with more piling in all day.

    You work multiple long shifts per week. In a single shift you make thousands of decisions with huge impact to your life going forward - huge downsides for mistakes.

    When you make 1000 decisions in a shift, even a 0.1% error rate is one wrong decision per shift!

    And even if you are a nice person, you need to keep your job. When your biggest boss has an unsympathetic streak, you tip more into “my mistakes will be punished” mode.

  • docmars3 days ago
    Update: this story was debunked and is false, according to CBP directly:

    https://x.com/CBP/status/1937651325354795444

    • matsemann2 days ago
      Debunked is a strong word. Why trust CBP more than this person? It's not like the current government is known for never lying.
      • docmars2 days ago
        I wish people could have applied this thinking to the last administration for even more heinous attacks on free speech, hehe. The media has proven itself to lie more around the nature of these controversies before seeking a credible source to begin with.

        That should be more concerning here, I think.

        In any case, I think with CBP here, it's either take it or leave it.

  • ehehe3 days ago
    Remember that talk about fake candidates from north korea which will immediately fall off the interview when you ask them "how fat is kim jong un"?

    I have a new one for american applicants - how fat is JD Vance??

  • 3 days ago
    undefined
  • 3 days ago
    undefined
  • BergAndCo2 days ago
    https://x.com/CBP/status/1937651325354795444

    > Fact Check: FALSE

    > Mads Mikkelsen was not denied entry for any memes or political reasons, it was for his admitted drug use.

  • 3 days ago
    undefined
  • OsrsNeedsf2P3 days ago
    > "They threatened me with a minimum fine of $5,000 or five years in prison if I refused to provide the password to my phone."

    I would write a witty message about how it seems like a good idea to put your phone in the carry-on luggage, but given they now ask for social media handles I don't think I will

  • 3 days ago
    undefined
  • dyauspitr3 days ago
    Should I start putting my phone in checked baggage? Is that allowed with the batteries and stuff? I guess I can carry a cheap older smartphone with a burner number for the actual flight.
    • serf3 days ago
      Your phone hasn't been a secure data-store across US national borders for 15+ years.

      (if ever.)

    • axus3 days ago
      Before entering authoritarian countries, you should factory reset the phone, add a minimum contact list, and have a process for restoring what you need from the cloud. No need to store phone in luggage.

      Also better to leave the laptop at home, if you don't want to wipe it.

    • tsimionescu3 days ago
      That wouldn't matter, you get your checked luggage before border control, don't you?
      • knorker3 days ago
        No.

        Sure, if you get sent to secondary screening they may pick up your bag for you, but no.

        Luggage pickup is after CBP. As far as I remember this is the case everywhere.

        • ryandrake3 days ago
          Every country I’ve ever travelled to, it’s: 1. Go through immigration, 2. Pick up your luggage, 3. Go through customs.
      • account422 days ago
        Not in any airport I have been to. Usually it's landing -> immigration (border control) -> baggage claim -> customs (just walk through if you have nothing to declare) -> exit.
      • 3 days ago
        undefined
      • lifeinthevoid3 days ago
        Not really, in JFK terminal 4 at least, you get your luggage after passing through immigration.
      • 3 days ago
        undefined
    • treve3 days ago
      Delete social media or wipe your phone and restore on your destination. On a laptop, you could use a decoy OS on a separate partition.

      The best way to seem like you're not hiding something is to have something else to show.

    • mosdl3 days ago
      Take out the sim and say the phone has no internet connection
    • lifeinthevoid3 days ago
      Sure, if you want to look extra suspicious.
    • oldpersonintx23 days ago
      [dead]
  • thehamkercat3 days ago
    land of the free
  • givemeethekeys3 days ago
    This feels like a made up story just like so many other stories that get published to scare people from visiting China, India, Mexico, Columbia, etc.
    • SpaceL10n3 days ago
      Could be. The only information I can find about this is that the young man told his local newspaper what happened and then other news outlets just regurgitated the young man's account of what happened with zero fact-checking or corroborating evidence. Many people are taking one man's word as truth. I'd like more proof before coming to any conclusions.
    • cdreke3 days ago
      That is a very good point and a far more interesting one that this story is supposed to make. The matrix is here.
  • knorker3 days ago
    ICE? I would have expected this to be handled by CBP.
  • virtualritz3 days ago
    If Monty Python would be active today, this headline could have been a summary of a sketch of theirs.

    US politics is outpacing satire at an unprecedented ratio.

  • whalesalad3 days ago
    Based on the amount of vance memes in my photo reel, I would be sent to Guantanamo bay.
  • krunck3 days ago
    This guy was certainly flagged before he got on the plane in Norway. The US has data sharing agreements with lots of countries. His online behaviour was already known. The Trump administration changed the filters for what they're looking for in people's profiles. This guy fit.

    If you are going to upset the empire with your on and offline behaviour, you better practice solid information hygene.

    • knorker3 days ago
      Then why was his ESTA approved?
      • account422 days ago
        Your ESTA approval clearly states that it does not grant you a right to enter the US and that the final decision will only be made at the border. So he was likely flagged but still may have had a chance to enter depending on the outcome of the border interrogation.
        • knorker2 days ago
          Yeah, but my point was as a reply to the claim that it was clearly something else that denied him entry.

          Which it could still be. ESTA was granted because it was a "maybe". Then they found something at the border that was not in meme form, that the article doesn't mention.

          Maybe he had no pre booked return ticket, was claiming to stay with a friend he didn't have the address of, and then the meme was the last (albeit tiny) straw.

          My experience with CBP is that if you answer "wrong" (including saying that you only have the hotel name on your phone, which you are not allowed to check at the desk), then you need something "right", like a business card, to dig yourself out.

      • delfinom3 days ago
        ESTA is a farce to justify a fee to funnel into the country's endless debt hole.
    • tartoran3 days ago
      Based on?
  • keybored3 days ago
    The difference between the US and North Korea is that there are Westerners who think they can travel to the US without risking getting harassed for apparently having mocked the administration of the country.
  • jay-barronville3 days ago
    As someone who supported the current administration primarily due to their stated position on protecting free speech and fighting censorship, I find this story disgusting. I consider our First Amendment here in the U.S. to be the best and most unique thing about our country. I hated watching previous administrations step all over it, but in my opinion, the current administration is already proving to be objectively worse for the simple fact that they pretended to actually care about free speech only to pretty quickly start cracking down on speech they don’t like (e.g., see the Mahmoud Khalil and Rümeysa Öztürk cases—Öztürk’s case, in particular, is extremely egregious). As frustrating as it was when the Biden regime was cracking down on speech they didn’t like, at least they didn’t pretend to actually care about free speech. Running on a free speech platform and then implementing North Korea-style speech policies is such a massive betrayal.

    On a separate note, border agents being able to force you (anyone, including U.S. citizens) to give them access to your devices has been a problem for a long time and certainly should be illegal. When traveling internationally, you should either (1) leave your personal devices behind or (2) back up your personal devices to an encrypted drive (a tiny SD Card is ideal) and factory reset them. I know the EFF has been fighting that issue for a while and I’m hoping that at some point in the near future, border agents will be prohibited from forcing folks to give access to their devices.

  • IncreasePosts3 days ago
    Is this the visitor's own take on what happened? Or did they tell him "you're denied entry because of your JD Vance meme"? Per the article they also asked him a bunch of other things like about right wing terrorism. Maybe his answers sucked? Maybe he was being evasive?

    There was the case a few months ago of a Canadian lady being detained and denied entry "for no reason", and then it turned out she wanted to work in the US while on a tourist visa, and also was attempting to evade border patrol by flying to Mexico and entering via the southern border instead of the northern border or at an airport, where she had previously been denied admittance.

    • tensor3 days ago
      You mean the Canadian who went to the southern border to "get a new work permit" after securing a new job? Yeah, real sketchy that, applying for a work permit to work in the country.
      • IncreasePosts3 days ago
        You secure your work permit at a consular office in Canada, you don't try to enter the US on one type of visa with the intent to convert it to a work visa once you're in. That's called preconceived intent and is against the rules.
        • tensor3 days ago
          She was not on a visa. Believe it or not Canadians can travel to the US without a visa. She also had a lawyer who advised going to the border. It was all 100% legal and standard practice.
          • account422 days ago
            Trying to enter via the Mexican border after being denied entry at the Canadian border and not first resolving that with the Embassy is very far from standard practice and if her lawyer actually recommended that she should seek a better one.
    • throwawayq34233 days ago
      So how many times does something like this need to happen before you accept that it's happening?
      • IncreasePosts3 days ago
        Exactly once. But, I would need to know what actually happened, as opposed to what a person thinks or reports having happened.

        To share an anecdote, a person I knew in high school went around telling people that he got tasered for having a broken tail light on his car. Well, he did have a broken tail light, and he was tasered, but when the body cam footage came out, it tells the story of kid getting pulled over, being extremely combative with the initially polite officer, refusing to provide identification, refusing to exit the vehicle 10 times when the officer was attempting to lawfully arrest him, and then being tasered.

        • throwawayq34232 days ago
          So what circumstances are needed for you to believe something actually happened, besides several examples of the exact same behavior from the administration ?
          • account422 days ago
            One example where you don't find out that yes there was actually more to the story would be a start. This isn't such an example: CPD says he admitted to previously using drugs in the US which is a federal crime.
            • throwawayq34232 days ago
              The multiple examples of legal residents being detained for their Pro-palestinian activism?

              So the Norwegian's account can't be trusted but the CPD's can? Why?

              Also most drugs are not federal crimes and it sounds like he wasn't arrested for it, so there's no record and therefore no reason to prevent lawful entry.

              • IncreasePosts2 days ago
                Let's ask the Norwegian if there was in fact a picture of his drug paraphernalia on his phone. That should help us resolve the issue. If there was that picture, it would be totally weird that he only mentioned his JD Vance meme and not the drug picture
                • throwawayq34232 days ago
                  Again photos of illicit materials on your phone is not grounds for refusal of entry into a country. There is no law for that.
                  • IncreasePostsa day ago
                    The law for entry to a country is not "you're allowed in so long as there is now law specifically making what you did illegal in the country"
                    • throwawayq342318 hours ago
                      What are you talking about? Where does it specifically say you can be legally denied entry into the United States for past drug use?
              • throwawayq34232 days ago
                Another example:

                > https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14842359/Norwegian-...

                > It comes after an Australian writer claimed he was turned away from the US border after being grilled on his views on the Gaza conflict and articles he wrote about pro-Palestinian protests.

                > Alistair Kitchen, 33, boarded a flight from Melbourne to New York to visit friends on June 12 when he was pulled to one side by a Customs and Border Protection officer during a layover in Los Angeles.

                > He was detained for 12 hours at Los Angeles International Airport before being put on a flight back to Melbourne.

                > Mr Kitchen claimed a customs officer told him he was being detained because of his views on the pro-Palestinian rallies that took place on campus at the New York university last year.

                > 'I was interrogated about my beliefs on the crisis in Gaza. I told him what I believe: that the war is a tragedy in which all parties have blood on their hands, but which can and must come to an immediate end,' he wrote in The Sydney Morning Herald.

                Was this drugs too? Or maybe he did something else DHS can blame instead of owning their behavior?

                So again, how many times does this government have to police thought before you admit that is what they are doing, and how does that not directly conflict with your free speech ideology?

                • throwawayq342318 hours ago
                  I suspect we are in a cycle in which I provide more examples and you find reasons to not believe them, because doing so would conflict with your world view.
      • ryandrake3 days ago
        [flagged]
    • hermanzegerman3 days ago
      [flagged]
      • IncreasePosts3 days ago
        Has the professor shared what their messages actually were? This is the same exact issue that this thread is about - it's impossible to judge this without any kind of detail except the outcome.

        The messages were described by the source in your article “reflect[ing] hatred toward Trump and can be described as terrorism”, and “hateful and conspiratorial messages”. Maybe they were? Who knows?

    • marcusverus3 days ago
      [flagged]
  • derelicta3 days ago
    So much from the Greatest Republic on Earth
  • hackerbeat3 days ago
    The US is gone. Stay away!
  • cs7023 days ago
    Is that the only reason why entrance was denied?

    Is this story real? I just checked, and nope, it's not April 1 yet.

    Does anyone here have addition information?

    • affinepplan3 days ago
      gotta love how credulous you people are to the most insane statements by this administration, and how skeptical you are of the most unsurprising events in the world.

      this just in: agency infamous for fragile egos and abuse of power got their ego bruised and abused their power.

  • slicktux3 days ago
    I’d prefer a meme of Wilfred The Dog JD Vance…the bald one is creepy!
  • platevoltage3 days ago
    I have a question, what if you show up with a freshly restored phone, or a dumb phone, or no phone at all? What if you're like me and have closed all of your social media accounts except Linked-in, that you're only on because you have to be?

    Would you be looked at with suspicion at this point?

  • Mr_Eri_Atlov3 days ago
    "Comedy is legal again"

    Actually, comedy is specifically illegal now

  • jbverschoor3 days ago
    I hope liking every episode of puppetregime is allowed
  • spaceribs3 days ago
    Cowardly, weak, and pathetic are the only attributes you can use to describe this behavior. I'm not saying this in order to "get a rise" or "inflame" a discussion here, but how can anyone really justify this?
  • jldugger3 days ago
    > Mads Mikkelsen

    Small world?

  • arewethereyeta3 days ago
    Charlie Hebdo
  • sys327683 days ago
    Article fails to explain why the image of him with a wooden pipe he made was so triggering to the border patrol agents.

    Why is this even on HN?

  • whamlastxmas2 days ago
    I don’t understand why progressive people who are against body shaming and judging people by appearances suddenly don’t give a shit about their values at all the second it’s a human they don’t like. Don’t get me wrong, Trump et all fucking suck, but it doesn’t excuse things like fat shaming
  • pvtmert3 days ago
    tl:dr; remove memes before entering to the US. welcome to the most free country in the world.

    > Mathias Rongved, a spokesperson at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has warned fellow Norwegians that it is their duty to be clued up on US regulations before entering the country. "Most trips to the US go without any particular problems," he said.

    > "Entry regulations can change at short notice, and it is the traveller's responsibility to have valid documents and be familiar with the current entry regulations. It is the immigration authorities upon arrival who decide whether you are rejected at the border. Norwegian authorities cannot intervene in this decision.

  • lobo_tuerto3 days ago
    At least he was not detained and interrogated for it. Oh, wait...
  • 3 days ago
    undefined
  • paxys3 days ago
    Wonder what the "political correctness is bad" "nobody is allowed to crack jokes anymore" "cancel culture is out of control" crowd will say about this one...
    • jasonwatkinspdx3 days ago
      Based on decades of experience with my family: it's only political correctness when other people do it. When they do it, it's just common decency, common sense, family values, etc.

      And as far as the original story, individual border agents should absolutely not be doing this to people because they have a meme on their phone, doubly so one where Vance shared a version of it himself. There is straight up no justification for this.

      Dark days for the values the US professes to represent.

      • slg3 days ago
        >individual border agents should absolutely not be doing this

        One of the underdiscussed aspects of an authoritarian regime is that it creates countless little tyrants that all feel empowered to exert whatever power they have in any way they see fit.

        • markx23 days ago
          2006. O'Hare. I'm close to the front when exiting a UK > US plane. The 'agent' sees an implant (self-done years prior) in the back of my right hand. Calls it 'brutal'. I was directed to sit in a chair until way after the whole flight had disembarked. I was then questioned about my luggage, reasons for visiting.

          Some years later "Pull the guy with tattoos". Full search.

          Year or two after that, New York, pulled from the queue, directed to stand in a clear box. "Do not move your feet from those markings". My young daughter had to stand and watch.

          Another trip. My passport photo did not fit their criteria. "Why did you shave your head?" .. "Because it was hot" .. repeat that whole interaction several times.

          I am so so happy that I never have to visit the USA again and it's solely because of the 'people' assigned as 'guards'.

          • switchbak3 days ago
            I had automatic weapons pointed at me and yelled at AFTER being waved through the crossing at the Ambassador bridge. 2010 era. I guess they wanted a second look.

            Most border agents are brutal, regardless of the current administration. But things do seem to get worse when the Republicans/MAGA are in. I wouldn't even want to think about how they'll act if a big terrorist attack comes.

          • slg3 days ago
            Frankly, I think this type of comment minimizes what is happening here. These anecdotes are nothing close to what is detailed in the story and they don't sound particularly tyrannical or even necessarily out of line. As an American, I have experienced similar things when traveling abroad in other western countries. What this article describes is much worse.
          • DudeOpotomus3 days ago
            Isnt that why you did all that to your body? To get attention from other people? This was just not the kind of attention you thought you'd get...

            Drawing attention to yourself results in attention. Who knew.

            • platevoltage3 days ago
              This is the type of comment I would expect from someone who tells women to go out in public in a potato sack to avoid unwanted attention, and if they choose not to, the harassment is their fault.
              • DudeOpotomus2 days ago
                The dude lambasts the US because he has tattoos on his face and implanted metal in his body and was singled out by security. Security's job is to look for people who are out of the ordinary. Since most security people are not very bright, they're going to go after the shiny lure. But somehow, this becomes about sexualizing women? WT actual F??

                People who put tattoos on their face are looking for attention. Attention is exactly what he got.

                Obviously the guy has never traveled to Asia. He'd be singled out in every port and every station. Sounds like he lives a tidy life in No Europe. Where bald white guys with face tattoos and body armor are normal and only brown people are singled out in security lines...

      • harry83 days ago
        > doubly so one where Vance shared a version of it himself

        No. Should have precisely zero baring on anything at all.

        Reminder: Support of free speech requires support of the right to say things that you loathe by people you hate or you don’t support free speech.

        • IIAOPSW3 days ago
          It is "doubly so" because the border guard was wrong to judge the content as "lese majeste" on account of JD himself sharing it, and was wrong that "lese majeste" is applicable in America. The guard was wrong, and even if one doesn't agree with one of the reasons they were wrong because they don't share those values, the guard would still be wrong for the other reason. Therefore they were doubly wrong.
          • harry83 days ago
            I was against Charles Manson, doubly so because he had a bad haircut.

            See it?

        • MegaButts3 days ago
          > Support of free speech requires support of the right to say things

          I know you didn't mean it this way, but both sides believe this to be true depending on how you define "the right"

        • spiderice3 days ago
          > Reminder: Support of free speech requires support of the right to say things that you loathe by people you hate or you don’t support free speech.

          No it doesn't. You're putting arbitrary limits to suit your views. You can support free speech for American citizens and also support using a foreigner's speech to determine whether or not we allow them into the country. That's just smart border policy. We should be vetting who we allow into our country, and using their speech is one way to vet them.

          Obviously not allowing someone in over a bald JD Vance meme is stupid. But the idea that we have to allow all foreigners the same level of free speech without it affecting their chances of getting into the country is also stupid.

          • platevoltage3 days ago
            Absolutely not. If you find out that the person who is trying to enter the country has made creditable threats to the USA, Sure, but that's also illegal for a citizen to do. Saying that the president is a poopy-head on Facebook doesn't count, and says nothing about what said person's behavior will be like once they are in our borders.
            • cogman103 days ago
              Pretty much where I stand. Some speech is criminalized for good reason (for example, planning to commit a crime). However, barring that, no speech should penalized. In particular, speech criticizing actions of the government or a government official should be especially protected.

              The bar for when speech should be criminalized/penalized by the government should be very high.

              For private entities I'm far more tolerate of censorship especially since it cuts both ways. Allowing or banning speech can directly impact a company's bottom line and should be regulated by customers choosing to interact with or avoid platforms.

              • platevoltage3 days ago
                Private entities are a completely different conversation. It drives me up the wall when people talk about "free speech" when they have a comment deleted on social media. (I'm not saying you said this btw)
          • Bhilai3 days ago
            The first amendment of the US constitution grants freedom of speech to all persons. Courts have interpreted that first amendment applies broadly, even to non-citizens.
            • platevoltage3 days ago
              I find it hard to believe that THIS Supreme Court would re-affirm this decision if it ever came up.
            • Y_Y3 days ago
              You raise a good point, but I'll opine that I don't think it's necessarily a broad definition of "person" that includes non-citizens.
          • titzer3 days ago
            > We should be vetting who we allow into our country, and using their speech is one way to vet them.

            Who is this "we" and what rules govern these "we"? What are the consequences for this "we" just up and violating the rules or throwing those rules out altogether to grift, stay in power and persecute those they hate?

            • macinjosh3 days ago
              The we is the people elected through democratic means to execute the law and the people they appoint.

              Maybe someday the civilized world will realize democracy often ends in the case of two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.

              • platevoltage3 days ago
                Oh come on. The very reason this is even happening is because the person with less votes was installed as president in 2016.
          • 3 days ago
            undefined
      • hermanzegerman3 days ago
        What values does the US represent?
        • wk_end3 days ago
          Note that they said "professes to represent" (emphasis mine). What the US professes to represent and what it actually represents for various people aren't totally unrelated, but it's a relationship that's always been pretty fraught.
        • snickerdoodle123 days ago
          Hunting down brown people and shipping them off to concentration camps, based on what's been happening the past few months.
        • jasonwatkinspdx3 days ago
          Supposedly freedom of speech for one. Hard to see that as being real today.
          • gwbennett3 days ago
            It was harder to see during COVID.
            • Leszek3 days ago
              And yet here you are saying it.
        • surgical_fire3 days ago
          Based on the current administration, I can think of 14 words that I will refuse to repeat here.
          • Y_Y3 days ago
            I assume your referring to this

            > We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words

            and further that you're intending to use it as a burn on Trump and his government?

            Regardless of what you think about them and Neo-Nazis/white supremacists, I think it's unfair because the policies of the current administration with regard to war, debt, environmentalism etc. evince a total disregard for the futures of children of any colour.

            • surgical_fire2 days ago
              > I think it's unfair because the policies of the current administration with regard to war, debt, environmentalism etc. evince a total disregard for the futures of children of any colour.

              That is due to incompetence, not desire.

        • happytoexplain3 days ago
          Freedom seems like the obvious example here, unless I'm not catching your meaning.
        • ajuc3 days ago
          At this point mostly hypocrisy.
        • mensetmanusman3 days ago
          You will only get edgy responses, most can’t comprehend what to think when people acting under a system of values fail to reach their proposed ideals.
        • LtWorf3 days ago
          violence, oppression, and hypocrisy about it all
      • skywhopper3 days ago
        Unfortunately, it’s pretty clear that there are strict quotas in place and border agents are expected to refuse entry to a certain number of people every day. The quotas are set by delusional xenophobes and thus aren’t remotely realistic, but border agents must find someone to kick out, so they latch onto any excuse. It’s truly sad and pathetic and evil.
      • glenstein3 days ago
        I know that the likes of fact checking and checking for hypocrisy draws eye rolls in the present environment (which in and of itself I find disappointing), but I do think an interesting variation on it would be to track what underlining principle is associated with any particular argument and to track adherence to principles over time. Of limited utility in an information ecosystem that's deeply indifferent to litigating disagreements on the basis of factual accuracy, but I feel like bsing your way out of inconsistent principles is at least harder.
    • sillyfluke3 days ago
      The "real" Mads Mikkelsen should fly into the US with the meme on his phone and post the bald JD Vance on his social media before his flight. He'll have the honor of being the second Mads Mikkelsen to be deported by this snowflake administration.
      • ortusdux3 days ago
        I fully expect to see this image on a shirt the next time I'm in line at security.
    • bjourne3 days ago
      They usually resort to legalisms for cases like this: "The guy wasn't an American citizen so first amendment doesn't apply. The border guard was ENTITLED to harass him. America #1!!"
    • jrflowers3 days ago
      Probably either skepticism that it happened

      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44369233

      Or celebration

      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44369218

      The whole “political correctness is so bad that we need to elect the current regime” crew only ever really wanted to feel aligned with power and are more or less indifferent to what that power does so long as they are periodically made to feel reassured that they are on the right side of it.

      • xnx13 hours ago
        > only ever really wanted to feel aligned with power

        The polite description of bootlicker

      • throwawayq34233 days ago
        Everything Trump does in the coming months will be met by his fans with either "fake news" or "we are better off with a king anyways."
    • orangecat3 days ago
      Wonder what the "political correctness is bad" "nobody is allowed to crack jokes anymore" "cancel culture is out of control" crowd will say about this one

      As someone who would be closer to that side than the opposite: this is terrible and unacceptable.

      (It is not that hard to have actual principles)

      • brewdad3 days ago
        It may not be hard but it does seem rare these days.
    • yodsanklai3 days ago
      Don't worry, they'll find a way to justify it.
      • sjsdaiuasgdia3 days ago
        Wilhoit's Law

        "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition. There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

    • jrochkind13 days ago
      They're gone, they don't exist anymore. Turns out they were fine as long as it was fascism.
    • Analemma_3 days ago
      A little while ago Scott Alexander did a lengthy post about how Curtis Yarvin, aka Moldbug, has essentially backtracked on everything he ever said about tyranny and these days gleefully cheers on all the things he decried in his early writing. Yarvin's response was, essentially, "You actually believed that I believed that stuff? lmao, idiot. This was about power and now we have it, piss off." Yarvin is unusually candid compared to most commentators and so I wouldn't expect a similar response here, but that's what's happening.
      • CoastalCoder3 days ago
        This greatly concerns me.

        I'm not a historian, but this reminds me a bit of the prelude to the French Revolution: a growing list of grievances against a ruling class by a population that feels abused, disenfranchised, and numerous.

        Even if one expects to enjoy a sense of Schadenfreude were such a revolution/slaughter to occur, our staples of daily life (food, medicine, electricity, fuel) are distributed over such a geographically large network, that almost everyone on the country would suffer greatly.

        I imagine.

        • nostrademons3 days ago
          Yeah, I see a whole lot of media parallels to Nazi Germany, but the two historical analogues that really pop to mind for me are the French Revolution and the Breakup of Yugoslavia. Both of which ended in slaughter - the Napoleonic Wars for the former and ethnic cleansing for the latter. People are crying dictatorship now, but I don't see that being the ending here; rather, I see it as being war and death on a massive scale.

          The other thing to remember about the French Revolution was that nearly all the revolutionaries who came to power during it were dead by the end of it. The folks who are crying "We're in power now, suckas!" are being extremely stupid. Power doesn't last long at times like this.

          The other thing that scares me is that the best place to be in all those historical times of crisis was an ocean away from the place where the crisis starts. But that doesn't work today; we have weapons with global reach that can level whole cities in 30 minutes. If the U.S. disintegrates nowhere on earth is safe.

          • TremendousJudge3 days ago
            > If the U.S. disintegrates nowhere on earth is safe.

            This is a very Hollywood action film way of seeing the world. In the case of an American civil war, it's unlikely that it will be fought using nuclear weapons, and in that case, it's unlikely that they would use any on say, Chile, or Australia.

            Europeans are screwed though.

            • nostrademons3 days ago
              That's not really the threat model. It's that the U.S. has played the role of policing the world's oceans and world's regional conflicts since WW2. If the U.S. descends into civil war, it will be too preoccupied with internal power struggles to continue to play that role. Many, many countries elsewhere in the world will take the opportunity to settle old scores and jockey for regional advantage. Meanwhile, the population in many countries is supported by food imports that can only be sustained while global trade can freely occur.

              If you live in Chile, the main danger is not that the U.S. drops a nuke on you. It's that Pakistan (freed from fear of international condemnation) drops a nuke in India, which then can no longer export rice to Saudi Arabia, where revolt breaks out, which cuts off the flow of oil, which makes Chile's economy grind to a halt.

              • keybored3 days ago
                > That's not really the threat model. It's that the U.S. has played the role of policing the world's oceans and world's regional conflicts since WW2. If the U.S. descends into civil war, it will be too preoccupied with internal power struggles to continue to play that role. Many, many countries elsewhere in the world will take the opportunity to settle old scores and jockey for regional advantage. Meanwhile, the population in many countries is supported by food imports that can only be sustained while global trade can freely occur.

                So it’s not the Hollywood action movie view of the world. It’s just the standard 2005 version of Pax Americana make-believe.

                Meanwhile Israel has attacked Iran and its US ally said “we want to do that too”.

              • Sanzig3 days ago
                > Pakistan (freed from fear of international condemnation) drops a nuke in India

                India is also a nuclear state, so this is pretty unlikely unless the wheels really come off the deterrence strategy. North Korea attacking South Korea perhaps, but even that seems unlikely as it would greatly anger NK's closest ally of China.

        • JadeNB3 days ago
          When I grew up, I found history boring, and didn't understand why we were made to study it. I'd like to think it's partly because I was taught typical jingoistic rah-rah US history, but that's at best only part of the reason.

          Anyway, even I, with my paltry education in history, can see the historical parallels. And here I am, versus an oligarchic class that had the opportunity for a world-class education, and surely knows at least as much history as I do. I wonder if they really believe that they've found the way to prevent the inevitable consequences this time, or if they just think that they'll have found some way out, possibly just having passed the buck to the next generation, before the consequences for them come to pass.

        • jasonwatkinspdx3 days ago
          There's some pretty clear parallels to the McCarthy era as well.

          History rhymes.

      • FrustratedMonky3 days ago
        Yarvin is missing the boat.

        Just because who he voted for got the power, does not mean Yarvin got the power.

        "Me Yarvin, Me powerful now". Is not true. What power does he think he has.???

        The real question is, what has to happen before these people 'learn', or 'understand' that they were duped. What would it take for them to really grasp how they were played? Like all those Germans that shrug, 'I didn't know'.

      • HillRat3 days ago
        It's been interesting watching who actually places rule of law and liberty above partisanship -- the Cheneys, tellingly, or Bill Kristol, or the Cato Institute -- and who has cheerfully befouled every declared principle they held in the name of untrammeled power. There are a number of law professors who talked a good game about common law liberty when the bad guy was the EPA, but signed on with Trump I and II the second they realized that tyranny was going to work in favor of their chosen policy preferences. Deeply dispiriting.
        • JadeNB3 days ago
          Yeah, going back and telling 2000 me and 2012 me that the Cheneys and Mitt Romney would become the conscience of the Republican party would have been interesting.
          • TremendousJudge3 days ago
            Who would you say was the conscience of the Republican party in 2012? What were they arguing for? Serious question, not American, follow their politics from afar.
            • cogman103 days ago
              I'd argue that republicans lost their conscience with Nixon. It doubly got worse with Reagan.

              Democrats lost their conscience with Clinton.

              The last republican president with a clear conscience was probably Bush Sr. He was also crucified for it (hence the single term). He foolishly let reason about running a government get in the way of party bluster and that ended his career.

              Carter was the last democrat president with a conscience and he also was lambasted for it.

              Unfortunately in the US, principles and conscience haven't resulted in party success in the last 50 years.

            • jasonwatkinspdx3 days ago
              McCain is probably who a lot of people would name. I disagreed with him about a lot of policy specifics, but do think he was genuine in wanting to do right by voters and the nation.
        • cyberax3 days ago
          But there's a silver lining. Democrats have been mostly true to their ideas.

          And the difference is really striking.

          Once Republicans got power, they immediately forgot basically ALL their ideals: small government, States rights, adherence to law, budget discipline, etc.

      • EnPissant3 days ago
        That's a very poor summary of this: https://x.com/curtis_yarvin/status/1921526333739319458

        A better summary might be:

        Yarvin tells Scott that today’s populist right is too weak to fear, while the real authoritarian danger comes from the prestige-driven institutions that already steer American life. His shift since 2008 isn’t a sell-out but a recognition that the fuel of mass democracy has run low and that the managerial regime’s ongoing failures are the greater evil.

      • cpach3 days ago
        Interesting. Where did Yarvin reply?
    • kelseyfrog3 days ago
      Every generation has its "free-speech advocates" moaning, "you can’t say anything anymore." The current panics: political correctness, cancel culture, jokes under siege, has the usual suspects asking, "What will the free-speech crowd say about this one?"

      This is a perfect example of Bourdieu's idea of symbolic violence and the violence of the arbitrary.

      The uncomfortable truth is, for many the thrill isn't in enforcing fair rules, or even unfair ones. The thrill is in the power to enforce arbitrary rules. The point isn't who gets punished, it's that someone can be, at a moment's notice, for no coherent reason. And the joy is in unpredictability, in knowing they can shift the rules under your feet and there's no one appeal to.

      This is the logic sitting beneath every hand-wringing editorial and rage-bait thread about "cancel culture run amok." The goal is sovereignty, not consistency. It's about who gets to draw the lines and when they can redraw them. Arbitrary enforcement isn't a bug. It’s the feature.

      The clever "gotcha" crowd falls flat when they imagine that, by exposing contradictions, they'll force a confession, a moment of logic, an admission, and surrender. But that moment never comes. When the point is arbitrariness, contradiction isn't a failure. It's the currency of power. Pointing it out only proves you're not the one with power.

      What will the "PC culture" critics say? Probably what they’ve always said. Remember, it's not about the arguments. It's about who gets to arbitrate, who gets to punish, and who gets to laugh last.

      It always has been.

      • beepbooptheory3 days ago
        Yes, we hear versions of this conceit a lot, but how does it play out? Like where exactly is this arbritrary power exercised in your mind? Where is the payout? In each discrete call out or critique? Is the world in your view just full of a million tyrants fighting for various fiefdoms, or is there just one collective bad faith actor here? How can you marry here both the overarching individualism which would make this rendering possible with collective phenomena we actually see with this stuff?

        This really is just what we have been hearing from the cultural right for a long time, masked as a kind both-sides/human-nature take. It sounds good, in that it gives something like general principle to subsume all the instances. But it just doesn't really make sense in the actually existing world. How could any given side even know they are the new hegemon, the new line-drawers, at any given moment. At what point are they rewarded with regard to the influence they wield? What does it even look like? Do you have examples? Sovereignty implies a concentration of something like power, but your very point here seems to decentralize sovereignty to the point of it being unrecognizable as such. Its like taking something very individual and trying to stretch it across everything in awkward way.

        Just simply: how does this actually work? When does whatever side thats on top actually get to feel good, actually get to be the sovereign?

        • kelseyfrog3 days ago
          It sounds like you're asking what is the scope of this sovereignty?

          In my experience, the scope is the establishment of a status hierarchy.

          We love to put ourselves in a privileged position. In most internet discussion, the status hierarchy extends throughout the duration of the encounter. In most Thanksgivings, the crazy uncle goes away at the end of the night, in marriages, it extends for the duration of the relationship. It's fundamentally tied to the social engagement.

          • beepbooptheory3 days ago
            Yes gotcha. But just try to think it through carefully: does this really capture what is going on in these many instances? There is an implication here maybe that you have been on the short end of some interactions in the past, did you really feel subjugated by some abstract power then? Did it really seem like the person on the other end was getting some satisfaction, some giddy kickback from their "sovereignty"?

            Does it not feel at least a little juvenile to think like this, if you look at it critically, maybe from a little more the outside than you seem to be? These kind of pat armchair psychologies that answer in one breath the phenomena of culture, of human interaction feel just extremely schoolyard to me... but I guess ymmv.

            At the very least: its unfalsifiable; one could easily go the other way and say "people love to belong to a group, and being able to police another group's language/jokes/etc is the best mechanism for reinforcing their belonging".

            To picture you and your smug interlocutor as ever placed in some asymmetric structure where they are the king and you are the pauper belies the staying power of these controversies, the clear struggle they manifest. You make it sound so much like there never even is a battle, just spontaneous winners and losers.

            I don't want to come off as harsh, but what you are arguing for is the logic of a loser, in the technical sense. Its asserting a projection you/others have of perceived intellectual enemies as a kind social theory for everything. It dooms you to fatalism you just dont need to have! Humans, for better or worse have a capacity for much more complicated motives. You do not need to "Mean Girls" the entire world!

            • kelseyfrog3 days ago
              It really does capture what's going on because for decades I used to be the aggressor. That was exactly the mentality I held along with people from that group. Like recognizes like then and now.

              I'm curious though, you seem to have not experienced this sort of internet domineering?

      • specialist2 days ago
        Terrific write up. Thanks.

        Yes and: Free speech maximalists seek freedom from consequences.

        Reading your missive, I now have to consider how impunity is related to sovereignty.

      • mindslight3 days ago
        It seems like we're seeing this exact dynamic play out with regards to starting wars, as well.
      • extr3 days ago
        AI slop
        • kelseyfrog3 days ago
          You're tilting at windmills, friend. Was there a point you agreed or disagreed with?
    • dfxm123 days ago
      Nothing, because they don't care about jokes, political correctness or cancel culture. They care about fascism and grabbing more power for themselves.
    • recursivedoubts3 days ago
      i think political correctness is bad and that this is bad (and that the meme is very funny) too
      • happytoexplain3 days ago
        Thinking political correctness is bad does not necessarily put you in the "political correctness is bad" camp. I think political correctness is often bad, but I am not part of that "camp", i.e. people who irrationally hate things that they use "political correctness" as a broad disparaging label for.
        • recursivedoubts3 days ago
          I think that thinking political correctness is bad puts me pretty firmly in the "political correctness is bad" camp.
      • mellosouls3 days ago
        As did JD Vance who retweeted them himself.
        • throwawayq34233 days ago
          While he oversees a government that enforces punitive actions on speech. Guess which action is more important?
          • randallsquared3 days ago
            He oversees almost nothing. The VP has no constitutional powers except to tiebreak the senate and succeed the president.
            • throwawayq34233 days ago
              That's like saying Stephen Miller has no power. Technically no, but he is running the show.

              Him and the people that backed him are the machine behind of all of this.

            • tclancy3 days ago
              And yet coming out against this would carry significant weight.
              • throwawayq342318 hours ago
                He was picked specifically because he will never go against his boss, for any reason. That's why he is there.
    • account422 days ago
      Hopefully they will look into this further than the clickbait headline and find out that no, he was not denied entry for a meme.
    • blueflow3 days ago
      Probably "Haha, our champion won. At least yours didn't."
    • whateveracct3 days ago
      legalize comedy!
    • thaumasiotes3 days ago
      Probably "what's the connection?"

      In this case, we have a report that someone was denied entry over an image of JD Vance.

      From the same report, we have the facts that JD Vance approved of the meme the image was taken from, using it himself; and that the image provoked border control agents into interrogating the person about his ties to "right-wing extremism". Not usually something you'd expect from someone about whom the only thing you know is that he appears to be criticizing right-wing politicians.

      It seems safe to conclude that politics weren't a concern. If you wanted to diagnose what happened, this looks more like the agents were looking to turn people away and seized on whatever they thought they could make work.

    • adamtaylor_133 days ago
      Since most of us are rational, logically consistent people I think we’d condemn this as outrageous. Like any rational free-thinking American should.
      • happytoexplain3 days ago
        I disagree that "most" of the people in the ideological camp the parent is alluding to are rational and logically consistent.
    • micromacrofoot3 days ago
      They don't care, there's no compass, it's only I win/you lose.

      I have a sibling that's deep into this, he would say "haha owned"

    • xnx3 days ago
      "The left wanted to make comedy illegal. You can't make fun of anything... Nothing's funny"
    • jimbokun3 days ago
      I hate censorship in all its forms. And it should surprise no one that the Trump administration have matched and exceeded the Biden administration's levels of free speech infringement.
    • noobermin3 days ago
      This meme "what about cancel culture" is no longer an interesting point anymore. Certainly online, most of Trump's fans don't care. Just stop taking these kind of conservatives you don't know personally seriously and just assume bad faith by default.
      • platevoltage3 days ago
        I've stopped taking these kinds of conservatives that I DO know personally seriously.
    • aaron6953 days ago
      [dead]
    • bediger40003 days ago
      [flagged]
      • throwawayq34233 days ago
        (it was never about free speech, it's about power and control)
      • varelse3 days ago
        [dead]
    • docmars3 days ago
      As a deplorable myself, I disagree with this decision and think it's ridiculous - but I do find the nature of it quite funny still.

      Also remember that JD Vance himself has plenty of air time laughing at these memes, and they aren't considered threatening like calling out Biden's cognitive decline with memes making fun of it.

      The overall response to memes of this nature are very different on either side. One side wants to censor the entire internet and penalize people for daring to share something politically incorrect, while the other caught an outsider who may harbor threatening sentiments about our nation, with the intent to harm - although I sincerely don't think that's the case here.

      Part of the irony here is that you'll more likely find a right-winger with more JD Vance memes on their phone than this guy.

      The mass-censorship has a much deeper weight to it than inconveniencing 1 tourist, and I think it's a little surprising this needs to be explained.

    • throwawayq34233 days ago
      The free speech crowd was never serious, they just want power and control over speech they don't like.
      • jbm3 days ago
        I'm pretty sure there is a free speech crowd that was serious about this; I just don't think it's as big as it is portrayed, maybe 5% of the US population at most. No one likes Free Speech when they are on the receiving end, but you learn to tolerate it.
      • 3 days ago
        undefined
    • mellosouls3 days ago
      In my case they will condemn it if it is true, while asking for more evidence than this single-source report so we can establish that is the case.
      • Ar-Curunir3 days ago
        Did you hold that attitude while complaining about cancel culture? Or is asking for more evidence something that is only necessary when it happens to your political opponents?
        • mellosouls3 days ago
          I'm a man of the left who thinks cancel-culture stinks and have campaigned against it for years, including warning those on "my side" (who you wrongly call my political opponents) that one day the boot would be on the other foot.

          I condemn cancel-culture full stop whether its the right-wing mcarthyism of the fifties or the leftist bullies of the last decade.

          Do you?

  • AlgorithmicTime3 days ago
    [dead]
  • TheBlight3 days ago
    [flagged]
  • _lateralus_3 days ago
    lmao no shot this actually happened, or at least the meme was not the reason he was denied entry
  • 3hoss3 days ago
    Mads Mikkelsen? I'm very skeptical that this is real, and kind of disappointed that HN is being so credulous.
  • thrownaway5613 days ago
    you people have been had... RTFA... a tourist "claims" this happened. The tourist name is Mads Mikkelsen??? The dude has the same name as the fucking actor??? Really??? Seriously people, learn when things smell of bullshit and when it doesn't.
    • DocTomoe3 days ago
      You are aware that names are not UUIDs, and that the same name can be used by several people, right? Especially since Mikkelsen is a rather common Danish surname (with around 35000 people named that) and Mads having been a very popular boy's name in the 1990s?
    • knowaveragejoe3 days ago
      Ah yes, it's a conspiracy and you spotted the critical oversight on their part. Real astute.

      It's not actually that unlikely for other people to possess the name.

  • kizer3 days ago
    What the hell is happening to our country :(
    • pstuart3 days ago
      A fascist coup is in play and they are actively dismantling all the safeguards to prevent it.
      • platevoltage3 days ago
        and we have at least 3.5 years to go.
        • tumsfestival2 days ago
          If you're lucky, that is. As things are going it could be another 4 years... Maybe more.
  • 3 days ago
    undefined
  • qoez3 days ago
    His name was "Mads Mikkelsen", like the actor? Either he gave a fake name or this story is made up.
    • strangecasts3 days ago
      It would be quite a feat for the local paper [1] to interview him without realizing his name was fake!

      Mads and Mikkelsen are both common Norwegian names (SSB has >4000 Mads and Mikkelsens individually), and unless his parents were big Refn enthusiasts I don't think they would have been aware of the actor...

      [1] https://www.nordlys.no/mads-sin-drommereise-til-usa-spolert-...

    • o_m3 days ago
      I don't understand this logic. It's a common Scandinavian name. It doesn't have to be either or.
      • qoez3 days ago
        The logic is pretty simple: I didn't know it was common :)
    • FeteCommuniste3 days ago
      That's like saying a news story about an American was fake because his name was "Michael Jordan" or "David Robinson." Some names are really common.
    • sct2023 days ago
      But here's a link to a local newspaper from his part of Norway: https://www.nordlys.no/mads-sin-drommereise-til-usa-spolert-...

      https://archive.ph/h3Uf4 couldn't capture it well but you can see has his name is referenced as Mads Mikkelsen.

    • 3 days ago
      undefined
    • keybored3 days ago
      “His name is John Smith? Big Fake warning bells!”
  • qoez3 days ago
    To play devils advocate: I have a feeling the rules around what's allowed on social media according to these new rules are pretty vague and so whoever vetted this ended up being the judge in this case. I doubt jd vance made some memo about not allowing bald vance meme sharers from entering the country.
    • platevoltage3 days ago
      Do you doubt that there was a memo sent out that instructed CPD to deny entry to anyone who has anything negative to say about the administration? Because that seems like exactly something this admin would do.