62 pointsby tartoran9 hours ago4 comments
  • alfiedotwtf7 hours ago
    This is how you create a subservient military… well, I mean even more so
    • stinkbeetle7 hours ago
      The military is supposed to be subservient to the civilian government in liberal democracies.
      • jackb40407 hours ago
        IDK what is covered by "liberal democracies", but in the specific military at hand every individual member takes an oath to uphold the Constitution regardless of contradictory orders from the government.
        • voidfunc7 hours ago
          An oath isn't a binding legal requirement. The military reports to the government.
          • cperciva7 hours ago
            The oath isn't legally binding, but the law is. Committing war crimes is illegal even if the civilian government orders it.
          • khriss35 minutes ago
            Hmm according to this theory, the president can be an absolute dictator since according to your logic, oaths are not legally binding and by definition the president literally reports to no one.

            If this is the thinking amongst MAGA then maybe that explains Trump's actions in the second term.

          • hackyhacky7 hours ago
            Obeying the law is a legal requirement. Following illegal orders is not (usually) a defense.
          • jackb40407 hours ago
            The legal system is one of the three branches of the government. The military voluntarily subordinates itself to civilian courts during peacetime outside of a constitutional crisis. A fact that becomes increasingly irrelevant with every new story like this one.

            You and every politician in history on the losing side of a military coup can scream "that's illegal" till the cows come home, it won't change a thing.

            • noduerme7 hours ago
              The US still hasn't experienced a military coup in the 250 years of its existence. The form a military coup would take in this country would not be a coup against the elected executive branch, it would be a runaway executive branch itself. Which is an important distinction because the political echelon needs to maintain at least an appearance of democracy.
              • jackb40406 hours ago
                I'm aware it's unlikely. All social ruptures that have ever happened we're unlikely. Most people follow the rules most of the time.

                This is a thread about unfolding defiance within the chain of command, in the context of the worst military defeat in US history. If you don't believe ruptures can ever happen you should probably just ignore this story and the increasing tempo of others like it.

                • noduerme2 hours ago
                  >> the worst military defeat in US history

                  Pardon, what? The US officially lost 58,220 military personnel in Vietnam prior to withdrawing from that conflict and losing every one of its objectives. We lost 2,402 people in Afghanistan which, notably, is once again under the control of the Taliban.

                  The US has lost 20 service members in the current war against Iran, and the war has not to this point ended in an American withdrawal or defeat.

                  To say this is the worst military defeat in US history would be factually ludicrous if it were said in good faith, but obviously it's not. It's not what the Stars and Stripes editors were saying. The only people peddling that line of BS are authoritarian dictatorships, including the one we're engaged in conflict with. Repeating it as if it were fact is either (a) incredibly misinformed or (b) wilfully spreading enemy propaganda. I'm going with (b). Including your wild assertion that the chain of command is unraveling, you must be either getting your news from the state television station of the Islamic Republic, or working for them.

              • esseph6 hours ago
                > The form a military coup would take in this country would not be a coup against the elected executive branch, it would be a runaway executive branch itself.

                You don't understand the oath then.

                ---

                I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

                ---

                One very important part of this oath that every officer and senior enlisted will point out, is that it covers the Constitution first, and lawful orders of the President second.

                • thesuperbigfrog5 hours ago
                  The oath that military officers and civil servants take does not mention the President at all:

                  "I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

                  Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Servic...

                  • 2 hours ago
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    • derektank7 hours ago
      This is obviously a terrible decision, but let’s be real. The overwhelming majority of US servicemembers aren’t getting their news from Stars and Stripes; they get their news from the same place everyone 18-30 gets their news, social media.
      • bad_haircut727 hours ago
        Its an avenue for people inside the organization to spread messages to other people inside the organization.
        • derektank7 hours ago
          Sure, it’s one avenue that exists along private military and national defense outlets and blogs such as War on the Rocks, Task and Purpose, Breaking Defense, Foreign Policy, etc.

          I am more concerned that this change means the troubles our servicemembers are having with base HVA/C or water supplies may go unreported, than the risk of some kind of cultural conformity.

          • jackb40407 hours ago
            Did Stars and Stripes cover any of those stories anyways? I feel like what I've seen has come through Snapchat or individual sources straight to liberal MSM outlets.

            Forgive me for saying so, but it's basically state media. It's purpose more or less is to facilitate coverups and limited hangouts. This story is notable for the same reasons Colbert being cancelled was notable, it's a dispute within the mainstream / elite media.

            • derektank6 hours ago
              It’s no more state media than the BBC is. Journalists at the Stars and Stripes have historically been given substantial independence to report on the news as they see fit. They covered the spread of Covid on the USS Theodore Roosevelt and Adm Brett Crozier’s resignation. They have reported on wrongful death lawsuits, murder cases, changes to veterans benefits. All of these stories are generally operational or focused on the quality of life of servicemembers, it is not an outlet for political or strategic criticism of US foreign policy and never has been.

              Incidentally, that is why they are being targeted now, because of their reporting on the living conditions aboard US aircraft carriers during the Iran war.

              • jackb40406 hours ago
                > It’s no more state media than the BBC is

                100% is not a low bar lol

                > it is not an outlet for political or strategic criticism of US foreign policy and never has been

                Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying. Don't expect them to remain accurate should the stream of "accidental laundry fires" escalate into a real strategic vulnerability

            • esseph6 hours ago
              > Did Stars and Stripes cover any of those stories anyways?

              TONS

              You saying this shows an extreme level of ignorance on this topic, to be fair.

      • chabska7 hours ago
        First they came for the niche news, and I didn't say anything because it's only 0.5% share of the viewership. Then they came for the regional news, and I didn't say anything because it's only 3.5% share of the viewership...

        (How you respond to these little transgressions will determine whether your society will recover to normal or slide further into ruin)

  • awinter-py8 hours ago
    I mean he voiced them before being fired too, it's the reason they fired him right?
    • JohnTHaller5 hours ago
      He was fired because he wouldn't change facts for the current administration. Same thing that happened at 60 Minutes.
  • mcswell8 hours ago
    Minitrue is here, and it works for Hegseth over at Minipax.
  • like_any_other7 hours ago
    No more censorious than Cambridge or Ghent universities: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cevmrjd9lj1o
    • applfanboysbgon7 hours ago
      Could you tell me what Cambridge has to do with US government censorship? I'm afraid I don't quite see the connection.
      • like_any_other6 hours ago
        There's no direct connection, only noting the spread of censorship. The more places that censor, the worse it is, since there are fewer refuges for free speech.