The Americans queueing up to renounce their citizenship(www.theguardian.com)
37 pointsby guerrilla9 hours ago5 comments
  • bad_username5 hours ago
    The efforts to divide and weaken the western world have been so massively effective that I sincerely wonder if there is not a state-sized adversary orchestrating all of it for years or even decades. The myopic glee with which people deconstruct their civilizational home from within is astounding, and it is hard to believe that is organic.
    • BobaFloutist5 hours ago
      It's an informal coalition between the alt-right, the dirtbag left, the extremely wealthy, and Russian, Iran, and China.

      Basically everyone selfish and myopic enough that they'd rather upend the table than lose the game was elevated, amplified, and funded by legitimate adversaries. Though, at the end of the day, the real perpetrators are, have always been, and will always be our moronic electorate(s).

      Oh also our lazy, clout-chasing fourth estate bears a significant portion of the blame, though I'm convinced their initial contributions were accidental.

      No grand conspiracy, just a lot of assholes and idiots and people who should have known better found out that it doesn't take all that much power to damage institutional trust, and got addicted to the sensation of destruction.

      • suburban_strike4 hours ago
        [flagged]
        • angoragoats3 hours ago
          > You say the alt-right are the bad guys, yet they're the only ones getting killed in broad daylight over demands to...enforce immigration law? Investigate NGO fraud?

          Speaking of lies, this is a big one.

          1) Heather Heyer, Renee Good, Alex Pretti, just to name three that were killed in broad daylight. Two of them were killed by fascist paramilitary agents of the government in broad daylight. So the first part of this statement is blatantly untrue.

          2) I’m not sure if you differentiate the “alt-right” from the current fascists who are in power, but the president has publicly called for the extermination of an entire civilization. So that’s something they want to do, not just the things you list. So again, another lie, or at least a deliberate omission if I’m trying to be charitable.

    • suburban_strike4 hours ago
      It's not organic. A country's occupants are only taught that they are evil and should be ashamed of themselves as a means of subjugation after they've been conquered.

      Self-destruction is the point of critical theory, and the explicit goal of its architects. For some reason this curriculum is only pushed on western countries.

  • ThrowawayR24 hours ago
    Though I don't agree with them, I do salute them for making drastic sacrifices for their beliefs. Too many people do nothing more than post angrily online about how somebody else should do something about problems.
  • culopatin7 hours ago
    That title tells you that neither the person making that comment nor the one that gave them the time of day ever lived or know what it’s like to be in an actual dictatorship and it’s disrespectful to those who did. If this is a dictatorship then wow, North Korea must be great.
  • retired7 hours ago
    I would never, ever renounce my citizenship voluntarily. It gives me access to what I call home, my friends, my family, a massive job market. Politics are a bit rough right now but imagine if that clears up in ten years time and you can't go back. Keeping my passport will always assure that I can get back to The Netherlands.
  • BrandoElFollito7 hours ago
    First you must have another nationality to use its passport.

    Then, if you do not plan to ever go to the US you can just forger about your US nationality and do not file any documents there, including taxes (which you pay in the country you are in, and hush away your US citizen obligations).

    This will not work in Europe, though, where anything financial has a question about you being a US national - and things get gross if you are. I don't know if you have such questions elsewhere.

    • free_bip7 hours ago
      This is highly illegal and could get you extradited back to the US if you're unlucky. Get advice from a real lawyer before doing anything like this.
      • BrandoElFollito7 hours ago
        If you are a French citizen, you will not get extradited to the US for tax reasons.

        For the record I am not a US citizen, fortunately.

    • antonvs7 hours ago
      > Then, if you do not plan to ever go to the US you can just forger about your US nationality and do not file any documents there, including taxes (which you pay in the country you are in, and hush away your US citizen obligations).

      This is illegal from a US perspective. US personal income tax is on worldwide income, regardless of where a citizen happens to be living. Some countries have mutual agreements with the US that mitigate that, but that’s the fundamental legal position.

      > in Europe, though, where anything financial has a question about you being a US national

      What I just described is precisely and entirely why those questions exist.

      • guerrilla7 hours ago
        > Some countries have mutual agreements with the US that mitigate that, but that’s the fundamental legal position.

        What mitigation are you talking about? Does it apply to Sweden?

      • BrandoElFollito7 hours ago
        > This is illegal from a US perspective

        Yes. It also need to be enforceable.

        Take GDPR. If say a US website serving pages to the EU does not follow it at all, or even does everything the other way (collection, ...) the only thing the EU can do is wave their finger. Except if the site has options in the EU.

        If you cannot enforce a law it is either dead, or you resort to bully actions like the US does (an example was Trump going account Iran the first time agent an agreement was signed, and telling the EU companies that if they continue to do business with Iran, their US subsidiaries will be fined)

        > What I just described is precisely and entirely why those questions exist.

        This is simply because we are chickens. Hopefully we will get rid of that someday.

        No other country has such advantages like the US with the question about citizenship in financial documents. This is a disgrace.

        • antonvs6 hours ago
          > or you resort to bully actions like the US does

          Yes, so your point is? You seem confused.