424 pointsby skullone7 hours ago39 comments
  • jkestner5 hours ago
    This should feel personal to a lot of us. I have hopes of applying to the Small Business Innovation Research fund (https://seedfund.nsf.gov), a program that gives small companies a good chunk of money without taking equity, in order to encourage development of technologies deemed of national importance. I’d be curious if anyone here has tried applying in the last 18 months.
    • epistasis5 hours ago
      I was helping some people working on their phase I SBIR throughout the first year of Trump, and they often didn't know who to report to, as the firings were so relentless and pointless and completely disorganized. They got the highest possible rating upon completion, but have not been able to apply for Phase 2, so the project is effectively dead as they pursued other opportunities.

      It's hard to imaging a more wasteful and destructive set of actions over the past year, except just shutting it all down. Money was still spent, less than usual, but in a way that ensured it was squandered, and that seeds that were planted could not grow.

      However, it was apparently reauthorized on April 14, as my NIH newsletter this week linked to this April 21 announcement that SBIRs and STTRs are back!

      https://grants.nih.gov/news-events/nih-extramural-nexus-news...

      • trinsic23 hours ago
        Im not getting how trump can fire anyone? Does he have the authority to do that?
        • epistasis3 hours ago
          The US government is not currently in a state of following the law or constitution. People get fired, and if authority was not there, a lawsuit 9-18 months later might rectify it, and in the meantime the fired employee has moved on. DOGE cuts were extreme, capricious, and the only rhyme or reason was to try to hyperpoliticize the science to meet what people were guessing that Trump would want. On the grant side, they cut grants in an explictly racist way, according to a Reagan-appointed Republican judge that ruled aganist them way back in June of 2025; what was the remedy? Merely to reinstate the grants.

          Who is going to stop a lawless Trump administration? Eventually the courts, at least at the lower levers. The Supreme Court is hyper political and continue making politically-driven rewriting of law, at least as much as the public lets them. Congress has completely abdicated their constitutionally mandated roles, such as being in charge of taxation and tariffs. The government has been completely taken over by a single party, and that party is burning the Constitution and its principles.

          As for another example of gross mismanagment, of many many many more I could go on about, the National Cancer Institute's review board was completely disbanded, and put under the National Science Foundation where reviewers have less cancer experience, for example. To a pointy-haired-boss, that might sound like a cost savings measure but it's still the same cost, you just have less experienced people doing reviews.

          All this is happening and getting reported on, but it doesn't get attention because every day is pure chaos filled with outrageous violations of what used to be normal activity in the government. And its all covered up by the most popular mainstream news sources, and there's a large body of the US population that has been completely brainwashed and literally refuses to accept any criticism of the Trump administration, outright rejected facts because it hurts their feelings.

          • juniperus2 hours ago
            I'm in academia, so NSF cuts are very misguided in my view, and hopefully will be reversed in the next administration. But the first two sentences of your post immediately contradict one another. You say America is in a state of lawlessness, and then immediately describe the American legal system. So that's exactly what following the law in America has always meant. America is a common law country, not a civil law country... Litigation and court precedent is how laws are tested and affirmed in common law countries, unlike civil law countries. So that legal system isn't lawlessness, its the way law works in common law countries, which America is one of the few not using the Napoleonic code.
            • xethosan hour ago
              War can only legally be declared by Congress. America is currently at war with Iran. Is the current war legal?

              I would say no. That doesn't mean it's not happening, just that the law was ignored.

              • juniperus13 minutes ago
                well that specific scenario is its own mess of competing authorities. Theoretically, the president is commander in chief, so he controls the armed forces. But congress has the authority to make a declaration of war. But the president as commander in chief can direct troops for national security or other purposes. Military action can happen without a war being declared. It becomes a bit of a game of semantics because the argument is that war is different than military action, then the legal interpretations of words and whatnot becomes the focus. Courts tend to not really go too deep into this issue, I suppose. It's something of a gray area. So the counterpoint is that the law wasn't ignored, it was interpreted differently, because of this concept that military action isn't necessarily war. Courts usually will spell out these interpretations more clearly and refine the law, but when it comes to war, I think they don't want to litigate that too quickly.
      • BidenSniffer5 hours ago
        [flagged]
        • tomlockwood5 hours ago
          The communist small business funding scheme.... Interesting.
          • nneonneo2 hours ago
            There's some troll making a dozen accounts on here to spew alt-right/MAGA nonsense, then deleting their comments (editing them to ".") once their account is burned.

            Don't reply, don't feed, just flag and move on.

    • gte525u5 hours ago
      SBIRs have been mucked up since last fall. The program lapsed and it just got reauthorized for certain departments. Without that reauth only those who had phase 1's could apply for phase 2's.
      • epistasis5 hours ago
        Hey got any details about how to apply for a phase 2 if you had a successful phase 1? I know a group that would be very interested...
        • gte525u2 hours ago
          It depends - some agencies you can apply directly without doing a phase 1. Others you need talk to the TPOC of the Phase 1 to find out the process or you have to be invited.

          In the current environment - I would contact the TPOC - it could just be stuck in limbo.

    • 2ndorderthought5 hours ago
      I know several people who have. They cannot even get awarded funds right now. All funding is being directed to grant mills.
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    • cozzyd3 hours ago
      some of us are also scientists who hold NSF grants (and hope to continue to hold them...) :)
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  • matt32107 hours ago
    There’s only one reason to get rid of all the smart people, shenanigans are afoot.
    • hn_throwaway_996 hours ago
      Dr. Jessica Knurick has done a great job IMO breaking down how authoritarian governments co-opt science to their own ends and end up destroying it in the process. Here is one such article, https://open.substack.com/pub/drjessicaknurick/p/the-authori..., but she has lots of posts and short form videos explaining the topic.
    • cmiles746 hours ago
      This quote in particular struck me as way out there.

      “Maybe one way to say it from the administration's perspective,” Stassun says, “is that this group of presidential appointees was advising the Congress to not follow the president's wishes."

    • bhadass4 hours ago
      its very transparent what they're doing

      they're almost certainly going to replace all the board memebers with political loyalists. the board members served six year terms specifically so they'd span multiple administrations and stay independent.

      firing them all at once lets you stack the entire board with people. it's not about making science better, it's about removing the people who'd say no.

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    • throwaway489656 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • ubertaco6 hours ago
        ....as opposed to the political spoutings off of your brand-new account named "throwaway48965"?

        Maybe you're just (ironically) in the minority, and mad that you don't feel like your opinions are sufficiently included.

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    • throwaway489656 hours ago
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      • throwaway274486 hours ago
        I've entirely lost track what people are complaining about wrt DEI; why not just say what you mean?
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        • throwaway489656 hours ago
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          • throwaway274486 hours ago
            Do you think a commitment to inclusion is some kind of activism?
    • conception5 hours ago
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    • dnnddidiej7 hours ago
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  • kenjackson6 hours ago
    So is this a 2400% reduction in the number of NSF board members?
    • kelipso5 hours ago
      That would leave one remaining member lol. I guess it would be infinity percentage reduction according to his math.
    • tempestn6 hours ago
      This is a reference to RJK Jr's pronouncement that Trump has a "different way of calculating percentages". Seems apt to me in this context.
      • Terr_6 hours ago
        Very much another "Emperor's New Clothes" situation.

        If the pathology was entirely within his own privately-owned company that'd be one thing, but Americans are going to continue to get hurt because of it.

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  • jesseendahl5 hours ago
    There are so many bots/trolls on HN now, it's crazy.
    • arealaccount5 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • 2ndorderthought5 hours ago
        I tried codex but found out it's not about how the model is but it's really about how Claude is better.
    • Freedom24 hours ago
      Are they initiating or continuing curious discussion? If so, then by all means they are following the most important HN guidelines so nothing can really be done.
      • fc417fc8024 hours ago
        Unfortunately there's a large grey zone (IMO) between what the rules forbid and curious discussion that's productive. Those that seek to game the system don't generally stand out as bad actors since that would hinder their goals.
  • JumpCrisscross7 hours ago
    What are the equivalent institutions in China? Do they do open houses?
    • Aurornis7 hours ago
      I disagree with this move, but the people who lost these positions were in temporary advisory roles. This isn’t a career job for them.

      The article says 8 members are replaced every 2 years and the terms are 6 years long. Between 1/4 or 1/2 of them would have been replaced during this presidency, and whoever gets placed now will start to be replaced by the next administration.

      As for China: They’re not known for having independent advisory committees overseeing government decisions. They’re definitely not known for inviting foreigners to come join their government to oversee their spending. So if you’re implying these people are at risk of going to China to serve the same role, that’s way off the mark.

      • jazzyjackson7 hours ago
        I expect this will have downstream effects on more careers than just these 24 people.
      • JumpCrisscross3 hours ago
        > As for China: They’re not known for having independent advisory

        They’re not. But I’m currently pessimistic about America’s ability to maintain technological leadership beyond the early 2030s and I’d like to see what the alternatives are. (I’ve been impressed by what India is doing, both in research and commercialization, as I have with Ukraine. I’ve been impressed by EU research.)

      • nixon_why692 hours ago
        China absolutely has a national academy of sciences: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Academy_of_Sciences

        They have and do oversight, generally with scary commie sounding names but presumably the same day-to-day as the NSF.

      • citizenkeen6 hours ago
        I don’t share your optimism that these positions will be replaced. I don’t know why you think they would be.
        • huxley6 hours ago
          Oh they’ll be replaced, by toadies and GOP Youth interns looking for a salary and resume boost
          • lacy_tinpot5 hours ago
            [flagged]
            • SpicyLemonZest5 hours ago
              We're just telling you what the President says! It's his explicit position, which he repeats constantly, that everyone in the government should be personally loyal to him and never do anything he doesn't want them to do. If you'd prefer for his side not to be full of toadies, you'll have to take it up with him; he's making a conscious decision to do things that way.
              • lacy_tinpot3 hours ago
                [flagged]
                • JumpCrisscross3 hours ago
                  > Executive branch shouldn't be beholden to the Executive?

                  No. It should be beholden to the law. And sometimes the law creates independent agencies because that’s the only way to administer a complex, free society.

                • SpicyLemonZest3 hours ago
                  It's really a quite boring take. The executive branch is not the President's personal property; he's a temporary custodian of it on behalf of the American people, and he has a duty to faithfully execute the laws Congress passed. He has no legitimate power to randomly smash things just because he'd personally like for them to be different.
      • tensor6 hours ago
        Oh so only 1/2 to 3/4 of them were terminated far outside of norms. I guess only 50%-75% corrupt anti-science activity is totally ok.
      • joe_mamba7 hours ago
        >The article says 8 members are replaced every 2 years and the terms are 6 years long.

        So it's similar to working for the UN or IAEA where most jobs are fixed term.

    • bdangubic6 hours ago
      It would be quite amazing if people in the US realized how much brain went to China in the last 16 months. I am a govie (contractor) and just what I know alone is …
    • smegma26 hours ago
      Why not find out and let us know? You’re implying an answer without knowing what it is
    • joe_mamba7 hours ago
      Why do you ask? Do you assume those fired NSF workers want to go work in China now? Or that China manages its domestic variant of the NSF better and accepts people critical of the CCP ideology?
      • fc417fc8023 hours ago
        I would tend to assume that the people overseeing the NSF are accomplished scientists. China has been more than happy to recruit those for at least the past couple decades. That said, I doubt this move negatively impacts their careers so I don't expect this alone would motivate any of them to leave the country. Other things might though.

        > Or that China manages its domestic variant of the NSF better

        Prior to Trump probably yes. Post Trump almost certainly.

        > and accepts people critical of the CCP ideology?

        Obviously not. But why are you assuming that those removed from their posts were vocal critics of the CCP?

      • Spooky236 hours ago
        Our entire economy is built on scientific advancement and advantage. The dismantling of everything to maximize executive power in order to maximize grift and corruption will have effects for decades.

        This is the American version of the cultural revolution. We’re pushing people to be plumbers instead of scientists.

        • throwworhtthrow4 hours ago
          > Our entire economy is built on scientific advancement and advantage.

          Devil's advocate: Only productivity gains, not the entire economy, are built on scientific advancement. But wages haven't grown with productivity in half a century, so the loss of scientific advantage won't affect wage growth, therefore the economy will be fine.

          (I know it's not convincing, but it's the best I can conjure.)

      • throwaway274486 hours ago
        Most people in china are not members of the CPC. And yes, they clearly are more competent.
        • joe_mamba6 hours ago
          [flagged]
          • gverrilla5 hours ago
            > The country has a social credit score

            Fake news.

          • XorNot5 hours ago
            "but China is worse!" is an excuse wearing well past paper thin at this point.
          • solid_fuel5 hours ago
            > The country has a social credit score

            Yeah that is concerning. Glad the US doesn't have any sort of credit scoring system that might make it hard to get out of poverty. That would be really scary. Imagine if you had to pass a credit check to get an apartment!

  • dublinstats6 hours ago
    National Science Board. Not the entire NSF.
    • dang5 hours ago
      Good catch. I've replaced the title above with the article's HTML doc title.

      (Submitted title was "Trump fires all 24 members of the U.S. National Science Foundation", which was probably just an attempt to fit HN's 80 char limit that had collateral damage)

  • rssoconnor4 hours ago
    Time for scientists to return to the Invisible College: a guild of science that keeps their research to themselves for the benefit of their own membership.
    • tacocatacoan hour ago
      Sounds like a industry wide union.
  • ernesto9055 hours ago
    From the administration's perspective, why was this a good idea? I'm scouring the web but I'm struggling to find a steel-man. My best guess is that this is to control where the research dollars go which I'll summarize below, but wondering if anyone has better ideas.

    From what I've read it seems the administration is very anti-social sciences, and very pro nuclear, AI, quantum. Thought from what I can tell most of the funding already goes to the hard sciences [1]. There were cuts proposed over the last few months but they were shut down by congress [2]. I suppose by cutting off the head of the org it's an easier fight to cut funding FY2027?

    [1]: https://www.nsf.gov/about/budget/all

    [2]: https://www.aps.org/apsnews/2026/04/nsf-lags-trump-proposes-...

  • elijahwright6 hours ago
    And so Vannevar Bush’s legacy slips away from us all…
    • big_toast5 hours ago
      Interesting history. From the wiki:

      "A Senate bill was introduced in February 1947 to create the National Science Foundation (NSF) to replace the OSRD. This bill favored most of the features advocated by Bush, including the controversial administration by an autonomous scientific board. The bill passed the Senate and the House, but was pocket vetoed by Truman on August 6, on the grounds that the administrative officers were not properly responsible to either the president or Congress."

      Also mentions the preceding organization OSRD (Office of Scientific Research & Development) and that they had tried to exempt it from conflict of interest regulations.

  • 0xbadcafebee6 hours ago
    An expected part of Project 2025[1]. The end goal is to install Trump allies as heads of every agency that matters to their agenda, and to shut down all agencies that don't. This way by end of 2028 there is nobody left in government who can speak out against what they're going to do next.

    If you have not read Project 2025 in a while, I encourage you to revisit it[2]. In summary it's a point-by-point plan to take over the entire federal government in order to enforce a single political ideology and suppress dissent. You can track[3] it as it gets implemented.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 [2] https://static.heritage.org/project2025/2025_MandateForLeade... [3] https://www.project2025.observer/en

    • 0xy5 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • solid_fuel5 hours ago
        Ok. Since this is a very precedented and normal action, please link me to an article or press release from when Obama, Clinton, Bush 1, Bush 2, or Carter decided the fire the entire NSF oversight board.
      • 0xbadcafebee3 hours ago
        The current administration has openly admitted multiple times that they want to completely eliminate anyone from government who isn't "one of their people". Their current efforts, both the ones in Project 2025 (ex. reclassifying career civil servants so they can replace them all with partisan hacks) and those without (voter ID laws, gerrymandering, replacing the Fed chairman), are specifically designed to create a 1-party state.

        I'll grant you, Clinton single-handedly passed more Conservative reforms than any Republican president ever has.

      • 2ndorderthought5 hours ago
        In your mind all of this is perfectly normal? I just have to know
      • fzeroracer5 hours ago
        No, no it is not.
  • rectang6 hours ago
    Trying to find a silver lining and think positively...

    Will a future administration have an opportunity to build something new and better from scratch which would not have been possible due to institutional resistance before it was all burnt down?

    • simonw6 hours ago
      If we're really, really lucky.

      Destroying institutions is one heck of a lot easier than building new ones.

      • Tanoc2 hours ago
        It's not even about rebuilding. Some things when destroyed can never be recreated, like trust, oceanliners, or the practice of Dísting. The initial event of destruction creates an expectation that it will happen again. Once it does happen the process accelerates itself until the full expectation is that whatever thing, concept, or practice can never exist again as anything more than a fleeting revival.
      • 6 hours ago
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    • gorbachevan hour ago
      Even if so, it doesn't matter, because 4 - 8 years later it'll be reversed again. And because it takes longer to rebuild than dismantle, it will never be the same.

      This is the cycle now. 180 degree turns in policy every 4 or 8 years. There's no long term planning.

      China and Russia must be enjoying this.

    • selectodude5 hours ago
      That’s the best case scenario - requires a lot of people currently involved in this to be jailed or executed before we can even begin to move on though. I’m not super optimistic.
      • juniperus2 hours ago
        Describing the political machinations of institutional academia as a category where summary executions are applicable is the type of thing that led to the Soviet Union instituting Lysenkoism for decades and other profoundly anti-intellectual absurdities since all the academics were just randomly killed for a generation. We don't need that. That's hysterical emotional overreaction which is the opposite of rational academic behavior. The NSF will just get funding in the next administration, this isn't the end of the world. If they just hasten the grant awarding pipeline in 2028, it'll be a blip in the scheme of things lol, these grants can be like 5 years long. You're talking about a field of very smart people, everyone is just being more frugal and putting off big purchases and doing research that isn't expensive and things aren't blowing up lol.
      • BLKNSLVR5 hours ago
        Let us not say executed.

        It's a harsher punishment that they live to see the rebuild of what they turned to ash.

        • brewdad5 hours ago
          No. Executed traitors can’t be pardoned and reintegrated into whatever follows MAGA a decade from now.
          • selectodude5 hours ago
            We already didn’t execute them 5 years ago and we ended up here. I’m not going to take the chance a second time.
  • fionic6 hours ago
    There’s a lot of political commentary in these threads about how dumb the admin is this and that, sarcasm, etc. but is anyone able to share why this is such a truly beneficial org to our country? I’m just out of the loop on this and I’m genuinely asking, I have never really heard of them. But by the reactions in the comments they’re like the most blessed org of our country and accelerate innovation and advancement of the USA. It’s just a foundation? Please just let me know, I’m not trying to be weird and I’d appreciate being civil about it.
    • eat_veggies6 hours ago
      From the Wikipedia article about the NSF:

      > With an annual budget of about $9.9 billion (fiscal year 2023), the NSF funds approximately 25% of all federally supported basic research conducted by the United States' colleges and universities. In some fields, such as mathematics, computer science, economics, and the social sciences, the NSF is the major source of federal backing [...] Since the technology boom of the 1980s, the U.S. Congress has generally embraced the premise that government-funded basic research is essential for the nation's economic health and global competitiveness, and for national defense.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Science_Foundation

      • simonw6 hours ago
        This is the kind of scientific research which companies don't generally pay for because it doesn't have direct commercial application, but that companies and the economy benefit from enormously because you can use the results of that science to build a great deal of useful commercial things.
        • magicalhippo6 hours ago
          > This is the kind of scientific research which companies don't generally pay for because it doesn't have direct commercial application

          Tom over at the Explosions&Fire channel (and Extractions&Ire channel) just published a video[1] about his academic career. In it he noted that in Australia where he's located, the defense companies were an exception to that general rule, and did indeed sponsor a fair bit of basic research, including his PhD. I assume in areas they figured had potential, but still.

          [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CbdVkcr-Nw

          • FireBeyond5 hours ago
            Even so, Australia still has the CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization) so there's that funding and research too, which actually has, per capita, about a similar funding (equivalent of US$9B adjusted), though they generally do most of that research 'in house' versus funding it externally.
        • LeCompteSftware6 hours ago
          The more important research is the kind that the economy doesn't especially benefit from, but which needs to happen in order to improve the quality of human life.

          I had a job paid by the National Science Foundation, doing genomics research on children with extremely rare (sometimes unique) genetic diseases. We did publish papers, and Big Pharma can glean a little bit about how we handled the biomedical informatics of managing data across different highly specialized labs, maybe a researcher will incrementally improve GWAS across the field. But that research was important because actual human children were suffering and needed help.

        • ivewonyoung6 hours ago
          .
          • simonw6 hours ago
            See sibling comment - NSF also funds science which doesn't have direct or indirect commercial applications (I shouldn't have implied that only commercial applications matter): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47906005

            What kind of an agenda does studying Gendered impact of COVID-19 in the Arctic carry?

    • jaredklewis6 hours ago
      They fund more than 10k research grants a year. These grants are for research into basic, unapplied science that would be extremely unlikely to get funding from the private sector. But this research is the foundation for the applied science whose breakthroughs power our economy.

      Basic science also increases our understanding of the world and universe, an admirable goal in its own right.

    • porcoda6 hours ago
      NSF is one of the primary agencies supporting research in the US. It’s not a “foundation” in the sense of charitable foundations if that’s what’s confusing you about their name. The base research engine that fuels the US in most disciplines comes from support like NSF, DOE, NIH. Damage those, and you damage the foundation upon which a lot of our intellectual strength sits.
    • 2ndorderthought6 hours ago
      So... This is worth a personal Google search on your part. This organization is a large part of the life blood for all research and development in the United States. It funds research, students, projects.

      You know how the US had people from all over the world trying to get into our schools, and how they regularly figured things out important economic healthcare and other discoveries by being ahead of the curve? This group is a huge reason why.

      Here's a good link for just 9 things that came from nsf funded studies. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/16/science/federally-funded-... the first being GPS. There are way more and the obvious ripple down effect of having trained people who went into industry and innovated in the private sector.

    • konaraddi6 hours ago
      > the NSF funds approximately 25% of all federally supported basic research conducted by the United States' colleges and universities.[5][6] In some fields, such as mathematics, computer science, economics, and the social sciences, the NSF is the major source of federal backing

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Science_Foundation

      EDIT: other folks beat me to it

    • stevemk14ebr6 hours ago
      > It’s just a foundation? Please just let me know

      We are each responsible for learning ourselves, and we live in a time where that is easier than ever. I find it odd your default position is to assume it is not important.

      • fionic6 hours ago
        My default position is not to assume it’s not important. I’m actually assuming it’s important from everyone’s negative comments. So since I don’t know much about what sort of advancements they’re engineering ( no one is really answering the question specifically I guess bc I can definitely wiki search them too.) so I want to know historically what have they improved and funded that has benefited society etc. so yeah I guess I can just ask AI since you’re saying don’t talk to other humans here…
        • dekhn5 hours ago
          The platform you're using- a website on the Internet- was funded for, and developed by, NSF (many other orgs contributed). They played a critical role in the 1980s when the net was in a period of tremendous growth. They helped enable the transition of the internet from a military/academic research project into a huge driver of the economy. That's just one example but they played critical role in developing many other science and technology.

          I find in conversations like these, if I don't know something fundamental like the NSF's role in American science, it's pretty easy to do a short bit of research before commenting. It's not bad to ask questions, but I figure if the question has a basic factual answer in wikipedia, it's best to start there.

        • amanaplanacanal3 hours ago
          Some basic research on Wikipedia would help you learn a lot, I suspect.
      • jmye6 hours ago
        It's not odd, given the rest of his comment ("they’re like the most blessed org"), it's just plain and simple dishonesty from someone who thinks a top-level comment casting doubt is better for the agitprop than a million follow-ups with explanation.
        • krapp6 hours ago
          This entire thread has swiftly descended upon by bots, shills and sockpuppets. It'll be flagged before any hope of finding good faith conversation in the morass.

          It's wild how efficient they are, sometimes.

          • fionic5 hours ago
            I’m a real person who is genuinely asking what sort of projects and advancements have they made for our society. It’s a genuine question for someone doesn’t know. The point is that everyone is negative and I have no idea why… so I’m asking what they’ve done… assuming I’ll be like wow - they were part of x scientific advancement or something. But yeah you’re right I will just talk to AI since this is not a welcome place for genuine discussion.
            • rexpop5 hours ago
              > this is not a welcome place for genuine discussion

              You're either a propagandist or a useful idiot.

          • jmye5 hours ago
            It's just weird to see it here, honestly. I wouldn't have expected the ROI on this board to be worth it. It just feels, whatever the admins think, more like reddit with this crap.
            • krapp5 hours ago
              The problem with green alt accounts trolling threads like this has been getting worse for a while. I don't know what can be done about it other than to just flag them, but that doesn't stop them.
        • dullcrisp5 hours ago
          Yeah but is anything really that important in the long run? We’re all just weird monkeys who are all going to die eventually. If President Trump really wants to do something, why not just let him do it and stop complaining? Do you really want to make President Trump sad?
          • jmye5 hours ago
            Is this a serious comment?

            > why not just let him do it and stop complaining?

            Because I have to live on this planet for a few more decades. I feel like I'm being trolled?

            • dullcrisp5 hours ago
              Okay yes I am joking.

              There, I added an extra sentence to make it approximately 20% funnier.

    • MobiusHorizons6 hours ago
      My understanding is that the national science foundation supports scientific research presumably through grants. Academia is already having a lot of funding troubles, so this likely means things will get worse in the academic sciences.
    • hectdev6 hours ago
      Wiki: "With an annual budget of about $9.9 billion (fiscal year 2023), the NSF funds approximately 25% of all federally supported basic research conducted by the United States' colleges and universities.[5][6] In some fields, such as mathematics, computer science, economics, and the social sciences, the NSF is the major source of federal backing."

      Personal: Always saw them as contributing to PBS kids shows I watch growing up.

    • jkestner6 hours ago
      You don’t think it’s worth it to research this yourself. That’s what the NSF is for, on a bigger scale! LMGTFY: https://www.nsf.gov/impacts
      • fionic5 hours ago
        I appreciate the link. Maybe someone has some more specific information or has been personally impacted? I guess it’s not worthwhile to talk to others and I should just ask AI. Have a nice day.
        • dekhn5 hours ago
          The AI you ask is based on technology developed by (not exclusively) researchers funded by the NSF.
    • tokyobreakfast6 hours ago
      They see "foundation" and assume MacGyver and Pete Thornton work there.
    • thangalin5 hours ago
      https://i.ibb.co/qM5xgPZ6/fascism-five-stages.png

      The NSF is an independent federal agency that funds roughly a quarter of all basic academic research in the US, laying the groundwork for technologies like the Internet backbone and MRIs. The NSB is its governing body, composed of top scientists who serve staggered six-year terms specifically so no single administration can wipe out the entire board at once. That continuity is designed to insulate scientific priority-setting from political pressure, ensuring American research funding is directed by objective merit rather than political patronage. Dismissing all members simultaneously removes the exact oversight mechanism built to prevent political offices from dictating scientific agendas.

      From a political science perspective, this is an institutional move Robert Paxton described in his stages of fascist development. His framework identifies patterns where political actors weaken or bypass independent bodies designed to constrain executive power. In Paxton's fourth stage, the exercising of power, an executive consolidates control by actively dismantling these checks. Centralizing control over scientific governance by firing the board for opposing a budget cut is hollowing out an independent institution; it's a pathway Paxton documented whereby institutional checks are weakened in ways that accumulate over time.

      https://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Pa...

    • pastelhues6 hours ago
      [deleted]
      • fionic5 hours ago
        I’m real. I’m from USA. Just trying to ask a question. The responses have been enlightening. I’m learning so much about myself.
        • amanaplanacanal3 hours ago
          I'm kind of wondering how old you are? You could find this stuff out for yourself, you know.
    • SecretDreams6 hours ago
      You're not expected to be in the loop for why every minor org in the government is helpful to the country, much like I'm not supposed to know the roles and responsibilities of everyone else in my company.

      But if I have a specific question regarding what some entity does, I can always look into it on my own time, rather than have a default stance on what they might do/not do.

      • fionic5 hours ago
        My stance is completely neutral. My comment was about the temp in this thread being extremely negative and so I’m asking how come? What are they doing please enlighten me. Not bc I think it’s the opposite, bc I’d like to be educated by my peers in order to be on their side or atleast have a discussion. I didn’t realize this is wrong by pretty much all who has responded to me. Telling me to google it myself and I’m not genuine and I’m being called names.. this is. Wild.
    • jackmott426 hours ago
      I think you are right that we should focus on the fact that the president raped children, invaded Iran with no plan and for no reason when he promised not to start a war, and violates the constitution and law daily without consequence.

      We are all failing morally for not revolting at this level of corruption.

      He raped kids and the entire GOP is helping to cover that up.

      He raped kids and the entire GOP is helping to cover that up.

    • stackghost6 hours ago
      You've never heard of the National Science Foundation?

      I'm not even American and I've heard of it. The NSF's mission is to promote science and engineering in all 50 states.

      • fionic5 hours ago
        Nope never heard of it
    • javiramos6 hours ago
      [dead]
    • melvinram6 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • fionic5 hours ago
        Thanks I will def ask ai next time instead of trying to have a discussion with human beings. This is the most helpful answer yet. I will tell ChatGPT to call me dumb and other derogatory names and shame me too so it can feel more like hacker news.
        • amanaplanacanal3 hours ago
          Don't ask chatgpt. Look on Wikipedia. Researching things like this is basic digital literacy. You need to learn how to do this.
  • jwpapi5 hours ago
    I’m trying to understand what rationale could be behind this decision. America has grandly benefitted hugely from their scientific community. All the hyperscaler could build up because the engineers felt good in America. This might not kill it, but it risks it.

    What could be the reason he’s doing it, how does he benefit from it, or thinks he benefits from it?

    • chronofar5 hours ago
      Perhaps you answered your own question. I think our confusion sometimes stems from assuming those in charge must want to benefit that which they are charged with stewarding.
    • bhadass4 hours ago
      the honest answer is it's not really about science at all; its about removing independent oversight.

      the "benefit" from his perspective is the same playbook trump admin has been running across every federal agency, he wants to replace independent experts with loyalists, remove checks on executive power, and redirect spending toward admin priorities.

      the board members served six year terms specifically to insulate science funding from political cycles. that's a feature to everyone else and a bug to this administration.

    • MaxfordAndSons5 hours ago
      Seems pretty clear to me.

      It A) gives business funding that would otherwise have to give up equity to VCS or sell to PE or whatever other forms of private, for-profit funding. And B) takes away money that could go to the military or ICE or other programs that could be used to concentrate Trumps power or aggrandizement.

      > America has grandly benefitted hugely from their scientific community.

      Has Trump and his friend benefited from this program? No? Then this doesn't matter.

  • rambojohnson5 hours ago
    every headline coming out of america is so god damn nauseating. empire on rapid collapse.
  • andsoitis5 hours ago
    > U.S. President Donald Trump yesterday fired all 24 members of the National Science Board (NSB), the body that oversees the National Science Foundation (NSF). Many science advocates see it as the latest step by his administration to erode—some would say destroy—the independence of the 76-year-old research agency.

    If the US president has always been able to fire them, then they were never truly independent.

    • mullingitover3 hours ago
      TBD, the defining trait of this administration is illegal acts that get overturned later. The point of this isn’t to be right, it’s “you might beat the rap, but you won’t beat the ride” abuse of process.
      • andsoitis3 hours ago
        Are you claiming the US president does not have the right to fire them?
        • SpicyLemonZest3 hours ago
          I reject the premise. The President is not a king, he isn't presumptively allowed to fire anyone he'd like. The statute establishing the National Science Board (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1863) does not give him any such power, so he doesn't have it.
          • andsoitis2 hours ago
            NSB members are executive officers, the statute is silent on removal, and Article II makes presidential removal power the default. Silence means he can fire them.
            • SpicyLemonZest2 hours ago
              Article II says no such thing. Humphrey's Executor established a useful compromise between "the Constitution is silent on removal" and "come on, is it really impossible to fire a postmaster?", but Trump has chosen to defect from that compromise so I no longer feel bound to accept it. Until he reinstates all independent agency heads he's purported to fire, I don't accept any removals he performs without explicit authority as legitimate.
              • juniperusan hour ago
                if a court overturns or reinterprets that, then it is the law. America is a common law country, not a civil law country. The process of litigation and court precedent is how laws work in a common law country, so I don't see how your framing of the situation is really all that valid.
  • SomaticPirate6 hours ago
    Every American here has allowed the quickest decline of a superpower in history. The damage to our country is irreparable and going to result in a worse life for generations to come
    • juniperusan hour ago
      The superpower built on the US dollar fiat monopoly that was enforced by military lead? The one that Trump is trying to reassert in a misguided attempt at preventing a decline in US quality of life down to a more realistic level? You seem to think Trump is the cause of this, and not the world gaining the ability to dictate their own affairs and not be the victim of CIA global chess games and other neocolonialist machinations. Trump is just a symptom of the backlash among the American public unable to adapt to the increasingly clear reality of the loss of purchasing power that is downstream of the rise in non-American economies and their productivity. But yeah, I guess if you view things simply, all of this started in 2016, and hasn't been brewing for decades and decades since the post-ww2 order was obviously not the end of history as once believed lol.
      • kelseyfrogan hour ago
        US financiers enjoy the benefits of the global dollar, and have immense political influence.

        What's completely incomprehensible is that the people suffering consequences of the Triffin Dilemma double down on the US dollar as the reserve currency. If they really wanted to bring back manufacturing, jobs, and compete with China, we'd give up the dollars special status. It's amazing how easily it is to misdirect blame to immigrants, libs, etc. Absolutely wild.

    • SecretDreams6 hours ago
      Sadly, while there is plenty of onus on the average American Joe/Jane/Joaquin Phoenix, this is also the result of systematic defunding of education streams, increasing disparities, and big propaganda over the last 50 years.
    • chiefalchemist6 hours ago
      Best I could tell, we were already there. DJT is simply a symptom. He’s what results after too many years of misrepresentation.

      He gets blamed for being the cause because those who actually led us into the decline don’t want to own their role in the mess. The fact that he got reelected is proof the status quo had lost the plot.

      Sure, he’s a scoundrel, but ultimately he’s a scapegoat.

      • BLKNSLVR5 hours ago
        Agree and disagree.

        The US has been on a downward spiral towards 'this' for a long time, but Trump literally self-selected to be the face of the intentional rapid acceleration of it.

        Calling Trump a scapegoat is incredibly kind to his intentional destruction and, to still put it far too kindly, "vindictive nastiness in attempt to profit" (which, I think, also depressingly describes what has become of the US tech sector).

        • chiefalchemist2 hours ago
          If the status quo system was doing their job(s) there would be no DJT in the WH. Full stop. Not once. Certainly not twice.

          But rather than own their failure, they work - hard - the “OMG it’s all his fault” narrative (read: deflection and distraction) and it works. So well, they keep doing it.

          But repetition of a lie doesn’t make it true. Concession to buy into a lie, also doesn’t make it true.

          No doubt DJT has his flaws. But he’s still a scapegoat. Why? Because no one is asking “How did we get here?”

          • BLKNSLVR2 hours ago
            That's a good point. Thanks for making it clearly.

            Essentially the US cannot improve it's current direction unless it can have an honest discussion about how it got so bad in the first place, with all administrations under the spotlight for failing to address the decline.

            Ironically, it's accelerating away from honesty.

            • chiefalchemist2 hours ago
              Yes. In short, Trump didn’t just happen. Plenty of incompetence and negligence preceded him. The red carpet was rolled out. The engine was primed. If it wasn’t Trump it would have been someone else. That’s not his fault.
      • whatisthiseven6 hours ago
        Odd, why can't Trump be both cause and symptom?

        Surely, he has made things uniquely worse, and in ways that would not have happened without him.

        • timschmidt5 hours ago
          The undercurrent of dissatisfaction which led to his popularity was already there. And has been for decades. Do you blame the drought, the dry kindling, or the match?

          You don't get the wildfire without all three, and anyone paying attention can observe the looming danger and the inevitability of ignition. Who lights the match matters. But is only a small part of the contributing circumstances.

          • BLKNSLVR5 hours ago
            I assign a fair portion of the blame to a consciously self-serving, opportunistic match, yes.
          • fzeroracer5 hours ago
            Trump is at least in part directly responsible for said undercurrent of dissatisfaction. He's been part of the wealthy scammer class for decades, providing the drought, kindling and matches. The fact that he's the most visible of the bunch and popular thanks to being on TV doesn't remove his deep connections to the root cause.

            The wealthy have been manufacturing these issues for decades now by buying up the entire media apparatus and gutting systems to the bone so that they can squeeze out a bit more blood to drink.

            • timschmidt2 hours ago
              > The wealthy have been manufacturing these issues for decades now by buying up the entire media apparatus and gutting systems to the bone so that they can squeeze out a bit more blood to drink.

              This is the stronger part of that statement to me. More than individual responsibility. Collective responsibility of the powerful. It seems to me that there's plenty of blame to spread around, which doesn't negate any of it. I even see ways democrats have contributed by, for example, conspiring to exclude Bernie Sanders who plays to the same feelings of dissatisfaction as Trump, but in a different way. More build it better than burn it down.

              Though I think that's what Trump sees himself as doing as well. People don't have to agree - I appreciate some things he's done and recoil in horror at others. But similarly for democrats. I was very displeased with Obama for renewing the Patriot Act while appreciating the difficult compromise of the Affordable Care Act.

              Historically, US politics has been quite volatile. The period between WWII and the 90s was unusually stable and prosperous. Which I tend to credit having bombed the rest of the world's manufacturing capacity to smithereens and the recovery period for, mostly. I think we're entering a more volatile period, but who knows?

        • chiefalchemist6 hours ago
          Do what you gotta do to feel good. But giving a free pass to all the other contributors - the ones loudest about who is to blame - is foolish, at best. To each their own.

          Put another way, in terms of the political status quo, what changed between his two term? Hint: not a damn thing. That ain’t his fault. Your bias has blinded you

          • XorNot5 hours ago
            The American voter openly and obviously said "wow. Despite the numerous management failures, more of that please?"

            People didn't vote for change, they voted for the same thing they had 4 years ago that changed absolutely nothing.

            To quote Vaas from Far Cry 3: Do you know what the definition of insanity is?

            • chiefalchemist2 hours ago
              Exactly. They were so frustrated and disgusted by the status quo political mess that Don was still a viable choice. Twice!!!

              And how did the system respond after the first win? It didn’t. It was same ol’ same ol’, and look what the led to.

              Blaming Trump for the cluster fuck mess that gave him the opportunity to run and win… Sorry. Absolutely not his fault.

              I don’t like the guy. But I’m not going to be foolish and blame him for winning. That’s not his fault.

          • BLKNSLVR5 hours ago
            Yes, Trump is a figurehead for 'everything wing with the US' but he's become that figurehead by being incredibly and publicly active in the promotion of 'everything wrong with the US'. He deserves blame well above those who voted for him.
  • hakrgrl5 hours ago
    I made a comment that was down voted and flagged less than one second after I clicked add comment. How is that possible?
  • pixelpoet6 hours ago
    I suppose that's a very effective way to stem the tide of pesky educated libruls. Not so smart now, are you?

    Just another day of America getting exactly what they twice voted for.

    • CoastalCoder6 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • pixelpoet5 hours ago
        It's a term much like freedumb, mocking their celebration of ignorance, not their accent.
        • SpicyLemonZest5 hours ago
          "Freedumb" is not as benign as you think it is either. If you're aspiring to meaningful commentary rather than social media upvotes, I would advise avoiding both.
          • pixelpoet5 hours ago
            In my opinion the people who are deliberately destroying science and education should be prosecuted for literal textbook treason, not merely mocked.

            These are the "fuck your feelings" people whose feelings you're worrying about.

            • qsera5 hours ago
              > who are deliberately destroying science...

              But this is subjective. What you call as "Science" might be pseudoscience for someone else. As an example, some decade back, following and trusting peer reviewed research was "scientific", but even back then I thought it was a stupid, unscientific thing to do. Today the problems with peer review process is pretty widely acknowledged. But back then I would have been considered unscientific to not fully trust peer reviewed research. People also used to say things like "Science is settled" and "Trust the experts", which is the most unscientific thing that one could possibly say.

              So since there is a lot of unscientific things that is being called "science" these days, I think this is very subjective.

            • SpicyLemonZest5 hours ago
              It's the feelings of uninformed people who don't yet know what's going on that I'm worrying about. Saying things like "libruls" and "freedumb" makes it harder to build the coalition which we'll need to prosecute the perpetrators.
              • donkey_brains2 hours ago
                Eh, they’re probably too busy molesting their younger siblings to take notice or offense.
  • metalman6 hours ago
    Take That China! that will show them!
  • jmyeet7 hours ago
    It's just own-goal after owl-goal with this administration.

    Federal research funding (NIH, NSF, etc) becomes economic power. I personally think the government should get a return on their research dollars but basically federally funded research has been given away to private companies since 1980 [1]. Interestingly, the Bayh-Dole Act was signed by president Jimmy Carter in a lame duck Congress after Ronald Reagan's election victory.

    Federal research (via DARPA) is what gave the US so much control over the Internet. NIH funding into drugs gives US pharma companies a lot of power. mRNA technology was the product of decades of government-funded research. The US can (and does) wield that power to extract concessions from other countries.

    In a little over a year American power on the world stage has been eroded, even destroyed, to a scale that I never would've predicted or thought could happen so quickly.

    This is what I find so crazy: these moves are beyond performative politics. It's actually destructive to American power and corporate profits. Culture wars are meant to distract people while the government transfers money from government coffers to the wealthy. Culture wars aren't meant to be the goal. We're in a new era here.

    And of course it's going to be China who fills the research void.

    Well done, everybody, the system works.

    [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayh%E2%80%93Dole_Act

    • GolfPopper6 hours ago
      >It's just own-goal after owl-goal with this administration.

      The presumes that "Trump Administration" and "United States of America" are the same thing. The reality is that a Venn diagram of them would be two circles that barely touch. Is it really an "own goal" if you gravely injure your victim while you rob them?

      • BLKNSLVR6 hours ago
        No. They are 100% overlapping because democracy. Even if you didn't vote for Trump, you are part of the United States of America that voted for the Trump Administration to represent it.

        Until the Trump Administration is replaced, the "Trump Administration" _is_ The United States of America.

        It's certainly not what an increasing amount of the population want to be true, but facts can be sticky like that.

        • wussboy5 hours ago
          Here's hoping that democracy continues...
    • dnnddidiej7 hours ago
      Trump is dangerous. Not a long term thinker. Probably not a short term one either.
      • gwerbin6 hours ago
        Trump is a symptom, a tool, and a distraction. The people whispering in his ear are the real danger.
        • burkaman6 hours ago
          He is also the real danger. He is an adult responsible for his own decisions and capable of saying no. Treating him and his supporters like easily manipulated children is not helpful.
        • CyberDildonics6 hours ago
          Not a distraction. If bad wiring starts a fire you have to put the fire out first, then fix the wiring.
        • CamperBob26 hours ago
          The people who voted for him are the real danger.
          • wat100006 hours ago
            77 million people thought he should be in charge. Nearly 40% of Americans still think he's doing a fine job. I'll be glad to see the back of him, but it won't solve the problem.
            • BLKNSLVR6 hours ago
              The only thing that I find positive in this, is how quickly the US is dissolving it's influence over the rest of the world, thus making this 40% of the US population increasingly impotent, at least outside of the US.

              The problem is what happens to the created vacuum. We know who is going to fill it, but we don't know exactly what it's going to look like. The devil we know is dying, the devil we don't know hasn't quite arrived just yet, and is likely going to take a decade or two to settle in.

          • Der_Einzige6 hours ago
            Getting downvoted for telling the truth. They are dangerous.
        • zzleeper6 hours ago
          So, Thiel, Musk, and?
          • 6 hours ago
            undefined
    • butAlso6 hours ago
      I have colleagues and friends around the world who are done with Americans over the lack of meaningful political action

      It's not just American right wingers turning off the world. The world sees how unexceptionally gen pop reacts in the US as our local politics destabilize everyone

      America is a normal country now. All the WW2 heroes are dead and soldiers since were imperialist aggressors. We don't dare worship Vietnam vets or middle east vets as those conflicts were not so valorous. That we have to point back so far to feel good about our history says a lot about how long America has been falling apart.

      For decades Academics been saying the decline of America started in the 1950s and has accelerated only as countries we bombed to hell to stay ahead normalized. I tend to agree.

      America has really not been that great this whole time. But like every other nation, Americans been propagandized by each other to believe their American made bullshit don't stink.

      In my career I have had endless obligations and expectations put on me by peers not out there protesting to cover my healthcare. IMO that's says it all about much Americans care about each other.

      To billions of exploited sweatshop workers the average American is not much better than the billionaires.

      • tclancy6 hours ago
        Well thanks for joining up to post this. Are we supposed to worship people to be a good country?
      • solid_fuel5 hours ago
        > For decades Academics been saying the decline of America started in the 1950s and has accelerated

        What academics? Links please.

      • JuniperMesos5 hours ago
        > To billions of exploited sweatshop workers the average American is not much better than the billionaires.

        Then it's extremely important to prevent those sweatshop workers from immigrating to the US (legally or illegally), where they and their natural-born citizen descendants will vote against the interests of the average American.

      • jmye5 hours ago
        > To billions of exploited sweatshop workers the average American is not much better than the billionaires.

        Nor are the Europeans or East Asians.

        > In my career I have had endless obligations and expectations put on me by peers not out there protesting to cover my healthcare. IMO that's says it all about much Americans care about each other.

        What?

  • superkuh7 hours ago
    Since science.org has made all their content inaccessible behind cloudflare here is a mirror of the article text, http://pastie.org/p/3coKAFruPfdJjw5s2H9tbX/raw
  • runnr_az5 hours ago
    Don't worry - I'm sure the people he hires will be super super competent, like the rest of the folks he's hired to run departments and whatnot
  • gverrilla5 hours ago
    MAGA are hurting the USA a thousand times more than "terrorists" ever did. Next to Trump, Bin Laden is like a schoolboy.
  • 5 hours ago
    undefined
  • k3106 hours ago
    Putin is happy with his investment.

    Xi, we shall see.

    • youre-wrong36 hours ago
      Joke isn’t funny anymore
      • JKCalhoun6 hours ago
        No, and it's just not a joke anymore.
        • k3103 hours ago
          Sorry to agree.

          This decapitation of education, military, cyber-defense, public news, the arts, disaster preparedness, climate science ... the list goes on ... is so systematic that it can only be described as a fifth column effort to destroy the U.S. from inside, which Putin can't do from outside.

  • yalogin7 hours ago
    Meanwhile all the ceos of Apple, OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, nvidia and palantir went to kiss his feet one more time. That obviously did not happen now but you would have believed it.
  • hakrgrl5 hours ago
    Trump is a disruptor. I am interested to see how this plays out and whether he replaces anyone. One thing I've learned since COVID is, unfortunately, to be more skeptical of medical authorities. We were lied to in so many ways and all the while forced to "trust the science" and so called experts. But they were caught either wrong or lying way too many times. So I am not going to assume outright all the people he fired are perfectly honest or unbiased scientists, and I hope Trump has a plan going forward. TDS is a thing, and anything he does is met with resistance. He could cure cancer and people would still be mad at him somehow.
    • voganmother423 hours ago
      all he builds are monuments to himself. The line about cancer gets trotted out often, is he doing anything to cure cancer? All I see is corruption, but sure must be the detractors who are deranged - that is why you can point to all the good he has done right? I mean I bet his plan is similar to his healthcare plan, or his plans for trade, or his plans for peace.
  • napierzaza6 hours ago
    [dead]
  • antibull6 hours ago
    [dead]
  • sega_sai6 hours ago
    Presumably next he will nominate Kushner, Dr. Oz and a few donors... What a shame for a country.
  • RickJWagner6 hours ago
    [dead]
  • ycui19867 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • 7 hours ago
    undefined
  • miniponk7 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • antinomicus7 hours ago
      What a nasty, small minded, ignorant comment to make.
      • dgeiser137 hours ago
        Created an account just to make it too.
        • bigyabai7 hours ago
          I think it's the same one person, they love to erase their messages once their account is burned.
      • miniponk7 hours ago
        [flagged]
        • skullone7 hours ago
          [flagged]
          • 7 hours ago
            undefined
    • skullone7 hours ago
      go away magat
    • deadlinermusic7 hours ago
      [dead]
  • Forbo7 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • _blk7 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • DennisP6 hours ago
        Those protestors are out there because they love America. They love it enough to try to make it better.
        • p-e-w6 hours ago
          Serious question: What exactly do they love America for? I just don’t get it. Seems like in every way that matters to the common people, the US is at best mediocre.

          Could it be that they secretly subscribe to a different version of the same mythical exceptionalism as the president they despise?

      • behole6 hours ago
        Thin veil. Next time try mask off.
    • dnautics6 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • kybernetikos6 hours ago
        All systems have problems. What's your evidence that the system in the US is overall net negative? Pretty much the entire rest of the world would have loved to have a scentific system as good as that in the USA. The research output from both government and business was much more extensive and productive of value than the equivalent systems in europe for example.
        • dnautics6 hours ago
          > What's your evidence that the system in the US is overall net negative?

          really? reproducibility crisis, stagnation in various fundamental fields, and bullshit ive seen with my own eyes working in the salt mines of academic science

          > Pretty much the entire rest of the world

          no doubt, the irony being that by trying to copy the us' vannevar bush model these other parts of the world will invariably fall into the same p-hacking/publication count/tenure chasing system that leads to the rotten system the us has. except the us got to pick tge low hanging scientific fruit already

      • stavros6 hours ago
        If a house has a rotten foundation, a good plan will start with "let's tear it down". Not every plan that starts with "let's tear it down" will be a good plan.
        • kybernetikos6 hours ago
          I think maybe a better analogy would be "the ladder I'm standing at the top of has some faulty rungs near the bottom. I'll set it on fire."

          There are lots of things where tearing the system down and starting from scratch is a bad idea, especially if you do it while depending on it and before you have a replacement.

        • dnautics6 hours ago
          well the first step is the same, so might as well get that part done with.
          • imoverclocked6 hours ago
            You will not live forever. Would applying the same logic again suit you?

            Timing matters. Where current resources go matters. Having a plan matters. The current system is not perfect but it’s far better than no system at all.

            • dnautics6 hours ago
              > The current system is not perfect but it’s far better than no system at all.

              you should question this assertion. your assertion is dependent on the assumption that science is a strictly positive sum game (with respect to funding). i am saying it is not, and i have provided the mechanistic explanation of why it's not.

              all i ask people to think about is: bad science is worth negative.

              • notahacker6 hours ago
                imagine trying to insinuate with a straight face that firing everyone on a funding oversight body because they queried the executive branch bypassing the oversight is somehow going to reduce fraudulent research and grift in state sponsored science...
                • dnautics5 hours ago
                  the existence of a body named X does not imply they were doing X, or doing X well.

                  a better argument would be that trump doing this is possibly toxic because the process of resetting becomes overly political and associated with trump shenanigans. i guess that argument was too sophisticated to make

    • youre-wrong36 hours ago
      [flagged]
  • throwaway4578547 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • jazzyjackson7 hours ago
      highly reddited comment. it is possible for outrage to be organic.
      • 7 hours ago
        undefined
    • bigyabai7 hours ago
      > a very superficial article

      It's from science.org - how could it be less superficial, in your opinion as a reader?

  • jhack6 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • imoverclocked6 hours ago
      … or at least the half that consider a felonious conman to be “one of them.”
    • stackghost6 hours ago
      They're first at lots of things!

      Largest incarcerated population, highest infant mortality rate in the developed world, highest military spending, highest obesity rate in the developed world, highest rate of school shootings by a huge margin, and the highest gun ownership rate by a long shot (edit: pun not intended)!

      USA! USA! USA!

      • nlavezzo6 hours ago
        All true. But also GDP, science and innovation, and charitable giving - both overall and per capita.
        • stackghost6 hours ago
          >GDP

          Without question, but despite leading on GDP the USA lags behind in so many other key areas. It's astounding to those of us non-Americans that you can spend 30 Billion on the Iran war but you have elementary school children who are accruing "lunch debt" because they can't afford to pay for meals at school.

          Life in America seems so needlessly cruel.

          >science and innovation

          Not for long. The damage is already done, and America will cease to lead in this area in my lifetime, likely to never recover.

      • 6 hours ago
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    • 6 hours ago
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    • mmmm26 hours ago
      [flagged]
  • qsera5 hours ago
    Not a US citizen. But as I don't give two shits about the Karma here, I will go ahead and say something shocking.

    I like Trump.

    I never followed US politics before Trump. I didn't think politicians and politics were interesting, until Trump came into the picture. I enjoy watching him speak. There is not a single thing that he said that felt dishonest to me. The fact that he talks with the press casually and frequently is itself a big indicator to me that he is honest. In my mind, I cannot fathom why a dishonest person would do that and risk any slip of tongue that could expose him.

    I have found that if I listen to Trump and the administration directly, then it really feel honest and if done via some news channel, the feeling is different.

    I don't think he is stupid either. As I said, if he were stupid, I would not have found his speeches enjoyable to listen.

    This is same with the other members of the Administration including RFK, Marco Rubio, JD Vance etc.

    People say that he lies all the time. That he said he would end the war in three days, but haven't yet done it. To me this is not a lie. This would be a lie if he says it and didn't even try. But as far as I understand, he tries it, and fails. When he says "I will end the war in three days", I think he genuinely believes it. So I think he is genuine. He is really his own master. He does not play safe by tightly following what ever his advisors or PR people (not sure if they even exist) say. This makes him appear incompetent when you compare with presidents who are just a mouthpiece that follow "advisors".

    And if I am not mistaken, this is probably why he won. And I think he will win again, and the internet will be shocked again.

    • amanaplanacanal3 hours ago
      You like him because you think he believes the bullshit he says? That just means he's an idiot. Also notice he has appointed probably the most incompetent cabinet in history. He doesn't want competence, he wants bootlickers.

      Also, he is prohibited by the Constitution from running again.

      With any luck, a whole bunch of them are going to end up in prison before this is all over.

      • qsera3 hours ago
        If he is an idiot, the "bullshit" that he says would be inconsistent.

        The problem with Trump is perception. That what Trump says can appear to be inconsistent if you are looking for it. Or if you want to project that impression. I will give you an example.

        This [1] is a comment in one of the /r/worldnews post mocking a comment made by Trump.

        >Stable Genius Doctor Jesus on November 16, 2011: “Our president [Obama] will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate. He's weak and he's ineffective.”

        Superficially, the comment appear to be legit. But if you look at what Trump said, you can see that here https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/fact-check-trump-once-sa...

        > But to start a war in order to get elected, and I believe that's going to happen, would be an outrage.

        > Iran can be taken down in many ways. Their population is in turmoil. They look at what's happening in Syria and other countries where it looked like it was an impossibility. And it looks like that one is going to collapse also. So Iran can be taken.

        > I would never take the military card off the table and it's possible that it'll have to be used because Iran cannot have nuclear weapons, but you've gotta exhaust other possibilities. And we're in a great position to do it.

        And I think this fits perfectly with what he is trying to do right now, I mean where he says..

        > but you've gotta exhaust other possibilities.

        So this is what I said earlier. He is not stupid. But he speaks freely. You can cherry pick sentences from what he say and can paint a completely different picture.

        [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1svtrz5/trump_ha...

        • SpicyLemonZest2 hours ago
          It's true that Trump was generally a reasonable person in 2011, albeit brash and certainly someone I had many disagreements with. Here's a post he made about Iran a few days ago, reproduced in full to ensure I'm not cherrypicking sentences:

          > For those people, fewer in number now than ever before, that are reading The Failing New York Times, or watching Fake News CNN, that think that I am “anxious” to end the War (if you would even call it that!) with Iran, please be advised that I am possibly the least pressured person ever to be in this position. I have all the time in the World, but Iran doesn’t — The clock is ticking! The reason some of the Media is doing so poorly with Subscribers and Viewers is because they no longer have credibility. Iran’s Navy is lying at the bottom of the Sea, their Air Force is demolished, their Anti Aircraft and Radar Weaponry is gone, their leaders are no longer with us, the Blockade is airtight and strong and, from there, it only gets worse — Time is not on their side! A Deal will only be made when it’s appropriate and good for the United States of America, our Allies and, in fact, the rest of the World. President DONALD J. TRUMP

          To me this seems pretty stupid. If someone wrote this message in a social media argument I would block them.

    • 2ndorderthought5 hours ago
      Troll post.
      • qsera5 hours ago
        Look, I choose to be honest and see the response I am getting. Being called a troll.

        Is it really surprising that I can relate?

        • bigyabai4 hours ago
          No, not surprising. But some of your statements are hard to square with the current circumstances, so help us understand where you're coming from:

          > When he says "I will end the war in three days", I think he genuinely believes it. So I think he is genuine.

          This is what Putin said about his "Special military operation" that has stretched on for 4 years now. Hostomel turned into an irreversible, taxing conflict on the Russian people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antonov_Airport

          If the United States' hubris costs it half as much as Russia's did, we'll never be respected on the global stage again. The best option was to honor and enforce Iran's JCPOA agreement with the IAEA, but that's not possible now that America and Israel climbed the escalation ladder. Any deal we strike under duress will be worse and cost taxpayers more than peacetime diplomacy.

          I think we can see eye-to-eye with each other, but I'd have to hear how you think this type of strategy benefits America. From the macro-scale, this does nothing to bolster a conflict over the First island chain and weakens America's strategic credibility abroad. Iran and Israel are a sideshow compared to the eventual conflict with China, and the results we've seen from the Persian Gulf do not bode well for America's power projection.

          • fc417fc8023 hours ago
            Largely agreed but if one expects any sort of escalation with China that actually makes this (and Ukraine) quite useful by providing real world data about the recent technological changes to war as well as serving as a minor stress test for the military's organizational structures. To be clear I don't mean to imply that as being even remotely reasonable as justification.
          • qsera3 hours ago
            >I'd have to hear how you think this type of strategy benefits America

            The only answer I have is the one that Trump keep on repeating, about how Iran should not have a nuclear weapon.

            > JCPOA agreement

            If I am the POTUS and is really concerned about what happens to US after my term, I would be very concerned about what happens when the term of the agreement expires. This fits with Trump has been saying. That he became the POTUS because he found those that came before him not doing a good job. So it follows that he might think his successors also would not do a good job. So when he says he want a permanent solution to Iran's nuclear threat, I think that is why.

            This is what I said before. If you take what Trump says and do, in different contexts, it matches. I mean, he has an underlying philosophy and world view that he has built up, and is not derived from the thoughts and philosophy of others. This is another reason why I like him, but causes a huge majority of intellectuals to hate him. Because most of the intellectuals derive or outsource their view and thinking to other thought leaders...

            • bigyabai3 hours ago
              > The only answer I have is the one that Trump keep on repeating, about how Iran should not have a nuclear weapon.

              Then you don't have an answer. The Israeli media played that line for close to 40 years, lamenting Iran being "mere months" away from a nuke - for decades at a time.

              Iran has nothing to do with American homeland security. America's involvement in Iran is purely for political and economic reasons, there is no credible threat to America in Iran any more than there is in Sudan or Yemen.

              > If I am the POTUS [...] I would be very concerned about what happens when the term of the agreement expires.

              Genuinely, why? The JCPOA is a joint plan, America's opinion only matters insofar as we can compel Iran to comply. Pulling out increases the likelihood that Iran races to build a bomb with their HEU. Bombing them, like in the Twelve-Day War and Operation Midnight Hammer, did not compel any compliance. The uranium is still a problem.

              > So when he says he want a permanent solution to Iran's nuclear threat, I think that is why.

              I think that is bogus. Iran is not a credible nuclear threat to the United States or it's citizens, so the US would only be going to war to protect Israel. In which case, we don't even need the nuke pretext and we can just admit that it's a protectionist war to defend our fragile satellite state instead of lying about ICBM threats.

    • Cpoll5 hours ago
      [dead]
  • readitalready5 hours ago
    I'm OK with it. You're supposed to destroy countries that are committing genocide. And Trump is doing that for us without us even firing a shot. And I really do believe Trump wants to destroy the US, as his base are not aligned with the liberal democratic values that are led by racist genocidal maniacs anyways.

    There really is no moral defense of the US at this point, given the last few years of the genocide it is actively committing under both parties.

    Looking forward to whoever replaces the US as the leaders of the free world. Iran? Cuba? China? Greenland?

    • BLKNSLVR5 hours ago
      What I find amusing is how cheaply Trump is profiting. He and his family will have made a handful of billions of dollars, whilst costing the US an incalculable number of trillions over the next few decades.

      Trump will have been an incredibly cheap victory for whichever new superpowers emerge.

      I half expect the entire Trump family to move to Dubai in 2029.

      • solid_fuel5 hours ago
        > I half expect the entire Trump family to move to Dubai in 2029.

        Russia, maybe Israel. Not Dubai. Dubai will remain too closely tied to the next administration in the US without a major change in our energy supply. But yes I think it is highly likely that many of the criminals in this administration and the trump family will flee the country and take their pilfered millions with them once they are out of power.

      • bdangubic5 hours ago
        They are not moving anywhere. Baron will be President one day, this is about as certainty as that Sun will rise tomorrow morning. As much as people may like or not the Trump family is now part (big part) of the fabric of the United States and he will be remember (for better or worse) as one of the most influential Presidents ever. The fact that he should be in rotting in prison (probably should have spent most of his adult life there for crimes he committed before he ever got into politics) is a moot now. He will live in NYC and Mar-a-Largo, his family is not going anywhere and will be in the White House again in 8 to 12 years.
        • BLKNSLVR2 hours ago
          I, and I'm sure you do too, hope you are wrong. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!
    • dullcrisp4 hours ago
      It’s just like Gandhi said, you gotta fight genocide with genocide. Or maybe that was RTLM.