Do I need to read further? Seriously, everyone has talent. If you're not reaady to create things, just don't do it at all. Claude will not help you here. Be prepared to spend >400 hrs on just fiddling around, and be prepared to fail a lot. There is no shortcut.
There's a general pattern becoming evident of people being surprised with AI capabilities because they didn't realise (and none of us do fully) how broad the training set is, the variety of human output AI companies were able to harvest.
Even if all AI does is remix and regurgitate, there's a segment of the audience that is going to find some particular output brilliantly creative and totally original.
The medium was using the "wrong" tool for the job, which creative musicians do on a regular basis. And the output was so cool, it really felt like a relic from a different era even though it's hyper-modern.
(Most of it isn't.)
Art is on a sliding scale from "Fun study and experiment for the sake of it" to "Expresses something personal" to "Expresses something collective" to "A cultural landmark that invents a completely new expressive language, emotionally and technically."
All of those options are creatively worthwhile. Or maybe none of them are.
Take your pick.
Because it is a human making it, expressing something is always worthwhile to the individual on a personal level. Even if its not "artisticallly worthwhile", the process is rewarding to the participant at the very least. Which is why a lot of people just find enjoyment in creating art even if its not commercially succesful.
But in this case, the criteria changes for the final product (the music being produced). It is not artistically worthwhile to anyone, not even the creator.
So no, a person with no talent (self claim) using an LLM to create art is much less worthwhile than a human being with no/any talent creating art on their own at all times by default.
I think that's the point though. What op did was rewarding to themselves, and I found it more enjoyable than a lot of music I've heard that was made by humans. So don't be a gatekeeper on enjoyment.
AI tools are decent at helping with code because they're editing language in a context. AI tools are terrible at helping with art because they are operating on the entirely wrong abstraction layer (in this case, waveforms) instead of the languages humans use to create art, and it's just supremely difficult to add to the context without destroying it.
Especially with Ableton and something like ableton-mcp-extended[1] this can go quite far. After adapting it a bit to use less tokens for tool call outputs I could get decent performance on a local model to tell me what the current device settings on a given track were. Imagine this with a more powerful machine and things like "make the lead less harsh" or "make the bass bounce" set off a chain of automatically added devices with new and interesting parameter combinations to adjust to your taste.
In a way this becomes a bit like the inspiration-inducing setting of listening to a song which is playing in another room with closed doors: by being muffled, certain aspects of the track get highlighted which normally wouldn’t be perceived as prominently.
This song was generated from my 2-sentence prompt about a botched trash pickup: https://suno.com/s/Bdo9jzngQ4rvQko9
(A significant fraction of) musicians are certainly upset about this. I know a few who feel like their smallish income is threatened by this.
It is clearly plain to anyone who is a musician or hangs out with a lot of musicians that the independent music world is livid about this stuff. Everyone I’ve talked to, from acoustic songwriters to metal singers to circuit-bending pedalheads are united in their absolute hatred of this technology.
(Yes, follow-up commenter, I’ve seen the Timbaland interview)
They should not be worried if they aren't generic sounding independent musicians already.
Lastly, and a historical case in point, this whole conversation is a repetition of the anti-Sampler movement of the 80s and 90s. Look what that techno-leap brought us.
A new technology brings new sounds, if we all stopped treating a megalithic search engine as a personality, we'll move forwards with a lot less drama.
Needs significant human involvement to make it interesting.
How long that remains true is another question…
Apples to oranges. samples them selves were just another tool. The music was still handmade.
> I for one welcome
Sorry I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or not.
The sarcasm is irrelevant, my use of that term is more a nod towards this platform and historical replies in past discussions, in regard to similar situations. I'll make an effort to excise any superfluous attempts at humour in future posts!
I could listen to music by real people being vulnerable and expressing themselves, or I could listen to a computer soullessly regurgitating a stock "blues" melody with inane lyrics about a trash can. Why would I ever pick the latter?
Pro musician here.
There's piles upon piles of human-generated music soullessly regurgitating stock patterns with inane lyrics since long before Alan Turing was even flown in by the stork. Most recent popular music by far is bland sausage factory production.
Why not allow yourself to be moved by beautiful music, wheter it's machine generated or not?
No, I'm OK sticking to the human stuff!
Think about a world where AI creative works are on equal playing field to human works. The AI can tailor an entire library of work for an individual spitting out hundreds of albums per day. Humans would end up listening to majority AI works just out of sheer volume of production. Any human still creating music would just be making data for AI's to steal and repurpose.
Me, I see the patterns too fast to even care for a second play of recorded music from a real human, only theme songs for nostalgia-inducing shows have enough of an emotional kick to get past that.
GenAI music has all the same problems as GenAI images (try asking Suno for "Just fox noises" to see what happens out of distribution), but collectively it has at least been a bit harder for me to spot the pattern behind them in aggregate, even if each song by itself still has the same problem for me as any other recording.
Borderline acceptable for elevator music is a long way from the paradigm shift you claim it is.
> For complex AI generated music, tools like Suno and Udio are obviously in a different league as they're trained specifically on audio and can produce genuinely impressive results. But that's not what this experiment was about.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=atcqMWqB3hw
From the author:
> The instrumental and vocals were both generated using Suno with a lot fiddling around with the prompts. The video was edited by a human in kdenlive :-)
what about DJing? all DJs are doing is replaying someone elses music and recombining it in creative ways. and that is considered art. isn't that similar to telling an AI what melodies or songs to use?
i'd agree that a fully AI generated song without any human input is not art, but i would not completely reject AI use either. there is a middle ground somewhere, where that is depends on the intention of the creator.
Stuff like this - https://www.nme.com/news/music/ai-generated-country-track-wa...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-woman-behind-chart-top...
Etc
I really think art (as in art that’s made for it’s own sake, as opposed to jazzing up a PowerPoint slide or whatever) is by definition something AI will not make inroads in
It's not just good at producing complete songs though, AI has made it trivial to take garbage and make it sound good.
I largely stopped making music because imo unless you're in the top 5% of musicians AI is probably able to write better music than you.
I guess it's the same with visual artists. Unless you're really, really good it's hard to understand why anyone would produce art by hand these days.
The idea that you'd stop trying to express yourself because you're comparing your own artistic voice to the output of an LLM and somehow seeing it as less valid, or less worthwhile, is just sad.
I don't mean that as an insult, I mean it's genuinely sad for you and for all of us as a species.
I do enjoy making music, and I don't do it "by hand". I use lots of tools (instruments, electronics, a computer for recording and mixing, the internet for distribution). As long as I'm the one directing the tools, it's still art and it's still my music.
Brian Eno set up a bunch of tape loops of different lengths with a few notes each and let them run until something interesting happened.
Washed Out slowed down some Italo disco and sang over it (Feel It All Around aka theme to Portlandia). Does that count? [0]
Artists gonna art.
[0] https://www.tiktok.com/@nardinyouryard/video/759472477690464...
It won't be long before this becomes:
> I largely stopped making _____ because imo unless you're in the top 5% of making _____ AI is probably able to make _____ better than you.
Especially where _____ is anything that can be created digitally.
Claude is excellent at a few things, decent at quite a few more. Art and music are not one of these things.
Ar they good as tools to aid in the creative process if you know how to use them and have some restraint? Oh absolutely. As replacements for actual art? Oh absolutely not.
Same goes for the entire genre of tools.
It can also just make sounds with tone.js directly.
Imho electronic music creation is for a long time not a hard solution, the problem is making something to sound good :) (and good is ofc based on everyone's taste)
- Using Claude as a “pair producer” in Ableton by giving it access to the Ableton remote script API so it can create patterns - this was 1 year ago so I’d be interested to see how newer models can do https://youtu.be/2WxSB75U6vg
- A Claude Code skill which teaches it how to arrange Ableton loops into songs (by modifying the XML as there isn’t an API for this): https://youtu.be/P6Zw6f6CEbI and https://youtu.be/tVZigxFceUE
https://strudel.cc/#Ly8gImFtYmVyIGRyaWZ0IiBAYnkgYW1wCi8vIEB2ZXJzaW9uIDEuMApzZXRjcHMoLjU1KQoKJDogbihgPAogIFswIH4gMiB%2BXSBbNCB%2BIDMgfl0gWzIgfiAwIH5dIFs0IDMgMiB%2BXQogIFswIH4gMiB%2BXSBbNCB%2BIDUgfl0gWzMgfiAyIH5dIFswIH4gfiB%2BXQo%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%2BIH5dIFt4IH4gfiB%2BXSIpLAogIHMoIn4gW3JpbToxLCBzZDoyXSIpLmdhaW4oLjgpLAogIHMoImhoKjgiKS5nYWluKHNhdy5yYW5nZSguMiwgLjcpKS5wYW4oc2luZSksCiAgcygifiB%2BIH4gb2giKS5tYXNrKCI8MCAwIDAgMT4vOCIpLmdhaW4oLjQpCikuYmFuaygiUm9sYW5kVFI4MDgiKQoucm9vbSguMykuc2hhcGUoLjIpCgokOiBuKCJ%2BIDxbfiA2XSBbNCB%2BXSBbfiAzXSBbNSB%2BXT4iKQouc2NhbGUoIkQ1Om1pbm9yOnBlbnRhdG9uaWMiKQouc291bmQoImdtX211c2ljX2JveCIpCi5yb29tKC45KS5kZWxheSgiLjU6LjE2Oi43IikKLmdhaW4ocGVybGluLnJhbmdlKC4zLCAuNikpCi5wYW4oc2luZS5zbG93KDgpKQ%3D%3D
It layers a pentatonic guitar melody with filter sweep, a saw/triangle bass, warm e-piano chords, TR-808 drums, and a sparse music box that drifts across the stereo field.
I do acknowledge the possiblity that it might be heavily plagiarized from an original composition in the training set - I wouldn't know.
It double-tracked the vocals like freaking Elliott Smith, which cracked me up.
My journey started after my wife found a Ukulele on the side of the road near where I lived a few years ago and took it home. Then often when I had a short break, I started just tugging at strings, trying to fully internalize the sound of each note and how they relate... After a few months, I learned about Suno and I started uploading short tunes and made full songs out of them. I basically produced a couple of new songs each week and my Ukulele playing got a lot better and I can now do custom chords. I'm all self taught so I literally don't know any of the formal rules of music. I shun all the theory about chords and composition like chorus, bridge, outro... I just give the AI the full text and so long as the main tune is repeated enough times with appropriate variations, I'm fine with it.
TBH, as a software engineer, I was a bit surprised at how rigid music is. Isn't it supposed to be creative? Rules stand in the way of that. I try to focus purely on what sounds good. For me, even the lyrics are just about the sound of the voice, I don't really care what they say, so long as it makes a vague general statement (with multiple interpretations) and not cheesy in any way.
Then go pay someone to teach you to play <instrument>, and you'll get a life skill that will be satisfying to watch grow, instead of whatever this soulless crap is.
edit: Oh god after listening to those samples, send Claude to the same music teacher you choose...