65 pointsby misswaterfairy5 hours ago23 comments
  • softwaredoug4 hours ago
    Druids used to decry that literacy caused people to lose their ability to memorize sacred teachings. And they’re right! But literacy still happened and we’re all either dumber or smarter for it.
    • alt1873 hours ago
      It's more complex than that. The three pillars of learning are theory (finding out about the thing), practice (doing the thing) and metacognition (being right, or more importantly, wrong. And correcting yourself.). Each of those steps reinforce neural pathways. They're all essential in some form or another.

      Literacy, books, saving your knowledge somewhere else removes the burden of remembering everything in your head. But they don't come into effect into any of those processes. So it's an immensely bad metaphor. A more apt one is the GPS, that only leaves you with practice.

      That's where LLMs come in, and obliterate every single one of those pillars on any mental skill. You never have to learn a thing deeply, because it's doing the knowing for you. You never have to practice, because the LLM does all the writing for you. And of course, when it's wrong, you're not wrong. So nothing you learn.

      There are ways to exploit LLMs to make your brain grow, instead of shrink. You could make them into personalized teachers, catering to each student at their own rhythm. Make them give you problems, instead of ready-made solutions. Only employ them for tasks you already know how to make perfectly. Don't depend on them.

      But this isn't the future OpenAI or Anthropic are gonna gift us. Not today, and not in a hundred years, because it's always gonna be more profitable to run a sycophant.

      If we want LLMs to be the "better" instead of the "worse", we'll have to fight for it.

    • EGreg4 hours ago
      Druids? Socrates was famously against books far earlier.

      Funny enough, the reason he gave against books has now finally been addressed by LLMs.

  • netsharc4 hours ago
    An obvious comparison is probably the habitual usage of GPS navigation. Some people blindly follow them and some seemingly don't even remember routes they routinely take.
    • nerdsniper4 hours ago
      I found a great fix for this was to lock my screen maps to North-Up. That teaches me the shape of the city and greatly enhances location/route/direction awareness.

      It’s cheap, easy, and quite effective to passively learn the maps over the course of time.

      My similar ‘hack’ for LLMs has been to try to “race” the AI. I’ll type out a detailed prompt, then go dive into solving the same problem myself while it chews through thinking tokens. The competitive nature of it keeps me focused, and it’s rewarding when I win with a faster or better solution.

      • hombre_fatal4 hours ago
        I try using north-up for that reason, but it loses the smart-zooming feature you get with the POV camera, like zooming in when you need to perform an action, and zooming back out when you're on the highway.

        I was shocked into using it when I realized that when using the POV GPS cam, I couldn't even tell you which quadrant of the city I just navigated to.

        I wish the north-up UX were more polished.

        • simulator5g3 hours ago
          Unpolished north-up mode is a feature, the stakeholders want addicted users.
      • layman514 hours ago
        That's a great tip, but I know some people hate that because there is some cognitive load if they rely more on visuals and have to think more about which way to turn or face when they first start the route, or have to make turns on unfamiliar routes.

        I also wanted to mention that just spending some time looking at the maps and comparing differences in each services' suggested routes can be helpful for developing direction awareness of a place. I think this is analogous to not locking yourself into a particular LLM.

        Lastly, I know that some apps might have an option to give you only alerts (traffic, weather, hazards) during your usual commute so that you're not relying on turn-by-turn instructions. I think this is interesting because I had heard that many years ago, Microsoft was making something called "Microsoft Soundscape" to help visually impaired users develop directional awareness.

      • Liftyee4 hours ago
        I haven't tried this technique yet, sounds interesting.

        Living in a city where phone-snatching thieves are widely reported on built my habit of memorising the next couple steps quickly (e.g. 2nd street on the left, then right by the station), then looking out for them without the map. North-Up helps anyways because you don't have to separately figure out which erratic direction the magnetic compass has picked this time (maybe it's to do with the magnetic stuff I EDC.)

      • netsharc4 hours ago
        Yeah, I'm a North-Up cult member too, after seeing a behind the scenes video of Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear suggesting it, claiming "never get lost again".
    • codazoda4 hours ago
      I have ALWAYS had this problem. It's like my brain thinks places I frequent are unimportant details and ejects them to make room for other things.

      I have to visit a place several times and with regularity to remember it. Otherwise, out it goes. GPS has made this a non-issue; I use it frequently.

      For me, however, GPS didn't cause the problem. I was driving for 5 or 6 years before it became ubiquitous.

    • jchw4 hours ago
      I recall reading that over-reliance on GPS navigation is legitimately bad for your brain health.

      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-62877-0

      This is rather scary. Obviously, it makes me think of my own personal over-reliance on GPS, but I am really worried about a young relative of mine, whose car will remain stationary for as long as it takes to get a GPS lock... indefinitely.

    • stephen_g4 hours ago
      This is one I've never found really affects me - I think because I just always plan that the third or fourth time I go somewhere I won't use the navigation, so you are in a mindset of needing to remember the turns and which lane you should be in etc.

      Not sure how that maps onto LLM use, I have avoided it almost completely because I've seen coleagues start to fall into really bad habits (like spending days adjusting prompts to try and get them to generate code that fixes an issue that we could have worked through together in about two hours), I can't see an equivalent way to not just start to outsource your thinking...

    • yndoendo3 hours ago
      Some people have the ability to navigate with land markers quickly and some people don't.

      I saw this first hand with coworkers. We would have to navigate large builds. I could easily find my way around while others did not know to take a left or right hand turn off the elevators.

      That ability has nothing to do with GPS. Some people need more time for their navigation skills to kick in. Just like some people need to spend more time on Math, Reading, Writing, ... to be competent compared to others.

    • 4 hours ago
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  • captain_coffee4 hours ago
    Curious what the long-term effects from the current LLM-based "AI" systems embedded in virtually everything and pushed aggressively will be in let's say 10 years, any strong opinions or predictions on this topic?
    • yesco4 hours ago
      If we focus only on the impact on linguistics, I predict things will go something like this:

      As LLM use normalizes for essay writing (email, documentation, social media, etc), a pattern emerges where everyone uses an LLM as an editor. People only create rough drafts and then have their "editor" make it coherent.

      Interestingly, people might start using said editor prompts to express themselves, causing an increased range in distinct writing styles. Despite this, vocabulary and semantics as a whole become more uniform. Spelling errors and typos become increasingly rare.

      In parallel, people start using LLMs to summarize content in a style they prefer.

      Both sides of this gradually converge. Content gets explicitly written in a way that is optimized for consumption by an LLM, perhaps a return to something like the semantic web. Authors write content in a way that encourages a summarizing LLM to summarize as the author intends for certain explicit areas.

      Human languages start to evolve in a direction that could be considered more coherent than before, and perhaps less ambiguous. Language is the primary interface an LLM uses with humans, so even if LLM use becomes baseline for many things, if information is not being communicated effectively then an LLM would be failing at its job. I'm personifying LLMs a bit here but I just mean it in a game theory / incentive structure way.

      • cluckindan4 hours ago
        >Human languages start to evolve in a direction that could be considered more coherent than before

        Guttural vocalizations accompanied by frantic gesturing towards a mobile device, or just silence and showing of LLM output to others?

        • yesco32 minutes ago
          I was primarily discussing written language in my post, as that's easier to speculate on.

          That said, if most people turn into hermits and start living in pods around this period, then I think you would be in the right direction.

      • baschan hour ago
        >People only create rough drafts and then have their "editor" make it coherent.

        While sometimes I do dump a bunch of scratch work and ask for it to be transformed into organized though, more often I find that I use LLM output the opposite way.

        Give a prompt. Save the text. Reroll. Save the text. Change the prompt, reroll. Then going through the heap of vomit to find the diamonds. Sort of a modern version of "write drunk, edit sober" with the LLM being the alcohol in the drunk half of me. It can work as a brainstorming step to turn fragments of though into a bunch of drafts of thought, then to be edited down into elegant thought. Asking the LLM to synthesize its drafts usually discards the best nuggets for lesser variants.

    • m4rtink4 hours ago
      Like with asbesthos and lead paint, we are building surprises today for the people of tomorrow!

      And asbestos and lead paint was actually useful.

    • netsharc4 hours ago
      Hopefully the brainrot will mean older developers, who know how to code the old-fashioned way, don't get replaced so quickly..
    • SecretDreams4 hours ago
      It'll be a lot like giving children all the answers without teaching them how to get the answers for themselves.
    • binary1324 hours ago
      Most people will continue to become dumber. Some people will try to embrace and adapt. They will become the power-stupids. Others will develop a sort of immune reaction to AI and develop into a separate evolutionary family.
  • misswaterfairy5 hours ago
    It seems this study has been discussed on HN before, though was recently revised very late December 2025.

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.08872

  • foota4 hours ago
    Imo programming is fairly different between vibes based not looking at it at all and using AI to complete tasks. I still feel engaged when I'm more actively "working with" the AI as opposed to a more hands off "do X for me".

    I don't know that the same makes as much sense to evaluate in an essay context, because it's not really the same. I guess the equivalent would be having an existing essay (maybe written by yourself, maybe not) and using AI to make small edits to it like "instead of arguing X, argue Y then X" or something.

    Interestingly I find myself doing a mix of both "vibing" and more careful work, like the other day I used it to update some code that I cared about and wanted to understand better that I was more engaged in, but also simultaneously to make a dashboard that I used to look at the output from the code that I didn't care about at all so long as it worked.

    I suspect that the vibe coding would be more like drafting an essay from the mental engagement POV.

    • uriegas4 hours ago
      I find it very useful for code comprehension. For writing code it still struggles (at least codex) and sometimes I feel I could have written the code myself faster rather than correct it every time it does something wrong.

      Jeremy Howard argues that we should use LLMs to help us learn, once you let it reason for you then things go bad and you start getting cognitive debt. I agree with this.

    • falloutx4 hours ago
      AI is not a great partner to code with. For me I just use it to do some boilerplates and fill in the tedious gaps. Even for translations its bad if you know both languages. The biggest issues is that AI constantly tries to steer you wrong, its very subtle in programming that you only realize it a week later when you get stuck in a vibe coding quagmire.
      • foota4 hours ago
        shrug YMMV. I was definitely a bit of of a luddite for a while, and I still definitely don't consider myself an "AI person", but I've found them useful. I can have them do legitimately useful things, with varying degrees of supervision.

        I wouldn't ask Cursor to go off and write software from scratch that I need to take ownership of, but I'm reasonably comfortable at this point having it make small changes under direction and with guidance.

        The project I mentioned above was adding otel tracing to something, and it wrote a tracae viewing UI that has all the features I need and works well, without me having to spend hours getting it up set up.

  • potatoman224 hours ago
    I've definitely noticed an association between how much I vibe code something and how good my internal model of the system is. That bit about LLM users not being able to quote their essay resonates too: "oh we have that unit test?"
  • jchw4 hours ago
    I try my best to make meta-comments sparingly, but, it's worth noting the abstract linked here isn't really that long. Gloating that you didn't bother to read it before commenting, on a brief abstract for a paper about "cognitive debt" due to avoiding the use of cognitive skills, has a certain sad irony to it.

    The study seems interesting, and my confirmation bias also does support it, though the sample size seems quite small. It definitely is a little worrisome, though framing it as being a step further than search engine use makes it at least a little less concerning.

    We probably need more studies like this, across more topics with more sample size, but if we're all forced to use LLMs at work, I'm not sure how much good it will do in the end.

  • yndoendo3 hours ago
    How can you validate ML content when you don't have educated people?

    Thinking everything ML produces is just shorting the brain.

    I see AI wars as creating coherent stories. Company X starts using ML and they believe what was produced is valid and can grow their stock. Reality is that Company Y poised the ML and the product or solution will fail, not right away but over time.

  • spongebobstoes3 hours ago
    the article suggests that the LLM group had better essays as graded by both human and AI reviewers, but they used less brain power

    this doesn't seem like a clear problem. perhaps people can accomplish more difficult tasks with LLM assistance, and in those more difficult tasks still see full brain engagement?

    using less brain power for a better result doesn't seem like a clear problem. it might reveal shortcomings in our education system, since these were SAT style questions. I'm sure calculator users experience the same effects vs mental mathematics

  • mrvmochi3 hours ago
    I wonder what would happen if we used RL to minimize the user's cognitive debt. Could this lead to the creation of an effective tutor model?
    • alt1873 hours ago
      Definitely, but it won't be a creation of any known AI companies, anytime soon. I have a hard time to see how this would be profitable.

      It also goes against the main ethos of the AI sect to "stress-test" the AI against everything and everyone, so there's that.

  • nothrowaways4 hours ago
    > Cognitive activity scaled down in relation to external tool use
  • mettlerse5 hours ago
    Article seems long, need to run it through an LLM.
    • lapetitejort4 hours ago
      Doesn't look like anything to me
      • fhd24 hours ago
        Perfection.
    • SecretDreams4 hours ago
      When you're done, let us know so we can aggregate your summarized comment with the rest of the thread comments to back out key, human informed, findings.
      • observationist4 hours ago
        Grug no need think big, Grug brain happy. Magic Rock good!
  • pfannkuchen4 hours ago
    Talking to LLMs reminds me of arguing with a certain flavor of Russian. When you clarify based on a misunderstanding of theirs, they act like your clarification is a fresh claim which avoids them ever having to backpedal. It strikes me as intellectually dishonest in a way I find very grating. I do find it interesting though as the incentives that produce the behavior in both cases may be similar.
  • trees1014 hours ago
    Skill issue. I'm far more interactive when reading with LLMs. I try things out instead of passively reading. I fact check actively. I ask dumb questions that I'd be embarrassed to ask otherwise.

    There's a famous satirical study that "proved" parachutes don't work by having people jump from grounded planes. This study proves AI rots your brain by measuring people using it the dumbest way possible.

  • falloutx4 hours ago
    I think a lot more people, especially at the higher end of the pay scale, are in some kind of AI psychosis. I have heard people at work talk about how they are using chatGPT to quick health advice, some are asking it for gym advice and others are just saying they just dump entire research reports into it and get the summary.
    • tuckwat4 hours ago
      What does using a chat agent have to do with psychosis? I assume this was also the case when people googled their health results, googled their gym advice and googled for research paper summaries?

      As long as you're vetting your results just like you would any other piece of information on the internet then it's an evolution of data retrieval.

    • DocTomoe4 hours ago
      Pathologising those who disagree with a current viewpoint follows a long and proud tradition. "Possessed by demons" of yesteryear, today it's "AI psychosis".
    • mannanj4 hours ago
      Yes. Similar to the mass psychosis we were hearing about during COVID in relation to asking particular questions and demonstrating curiosity about controversial topics.

      Seems to have somehow been replaced with this AI psychosis?

      • greggoB4 hours ago
        > Similar to the mass psychosis we were hearing about during COVID

        Can you be more specific and/or provide some references? The "demonstrating curiosity about controversial topics" part is sounding like vaccine skepticism, though I don't recall ever hearing that being referred to as any kind of "psychosis".

  • bethekidyouwant4 hours ago
    I’m gonna make a new study one where I give the participant really shitty tools and one more give them good tools to build something and see which one takes more brain power
  • xenophonf4 hours ago
    I'm very impressed. This isn't a paper so much as a monograph. And I'm very inclined to agree with the results of this study, which makes me suspicious. To what journal was this submitted? Where's the peer review? Has anyone gone through the paper (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2506.08872) and picked it apart?
    • DocTomoe4 hours ago
      I love the parts where they point out that human evaluators gave wildly different evaluations as compared to an AI evaluator, and openly admitted they dislike a more introverted way of writing (fewer flourishes, less speculation, fewer random typos, more to the point, more facts) and prefer texts with a little spunk in it (= content doesn't ultimately matter, just don't bore us.)
  • somewhatrandom94 hours ago
    "Over four months, LLM users consistently underperformed at neural, linguistic, and behavioral levels. These results raise concerns about the long-term educational implications of LLM reliance and underscore the need for deeper inquiry into AI's role in learning."
  • bethekidyouwant4 hours ago
    “LLM users also struggled to accurately quote their own work” - why are these studies always so laughably bad?

    The last one I saw was about smartphone users who do a test and then quit their phone for a month and do the test again and surprisingly do better the second time. Can anyone tell me why they might have paid more attention, been more invested, and done better on the test the second time round right after a month of quitting their phone?

  • Der_Einzige4 hours ago
    Good. Humans don’t need to waste their mental energy on tasks that other systems can do well.

    I want a life of leisure. I don’t want to do hard things anymore.

    Cognitive atrophy of people using these systems is very good as it makes it easier to beat them in the market, and it’s easier to convince them that whatever slop work you submitted after 0.1 seconds of effort “isn’t bad, it’s certainly great at delving into the topic!”

    Also, monkey see, monkey speak: https://arxiv.org/abs/2409.01754

    • latexr4 hours ago
      > Cognitive atrophy of people using these systems is very good as it makes it easier to beat them in the market

      I hope you’re being facetious, as otherwise that’s a selfish view which will come back to bite you. If you live in a society, what other do and how they behave affects you too.

      A John Green quote on public education feels appropriate:

      > Let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools even though I personally don’t have a kid in school. It’s because I don’t like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people.

  • orliesaurus4 hours ago
    i think i can guess this article without reading it: ive never been on major drugs, even medically speaking yet using AI makes me feels like i am on some potent drug that eating my brain. what's state management? what's this hook? who cares, send it to claude or whatever
    • tuckwat4 hours ago
      It's just a different way of writing code. Today you at least need to understand best practices to help steer towards a good architecture. In the near future there will be no developers needed at all for the majority of apps.
      • cluckindan4 hours ago
        That just means the majority of apps don’t actually serve much of a purpose
        • noman-landan hour ago
          What if the future of apps is serving a few dozen instead of a few billion?
      • alt1874 hours ago
        Becoming a moron is a different way of writing code?
      • akomtu4 hours ago
        You may be right, but for a different reason: the majority apps on Apple and Google appstores will be 100% AI generated crapware.
      • joseangel_sc4 hours ago
        this comment will age badly
      • georgemcbay3 hours ago
        > In the near future there will be no developers needed at all for the majority of apps.

        Software CEOs think about this and rub their hands together thinking about all the labor costs they will save creating apps, without thinking one step further and realizing that once you don't need developers to build the majority of apps your would-be customers also don't need the majority of apps at all.

        They can have an LLM build their own customized app (if they need to do something repeatedly, or just have the LLM one-off everything if not).

        Or use the free app that someone else built with an LLM as most app categories race to the moatless bottom.

  • lacoolj4 hours ago
    Dont even need to read the article if you been using em. You already know just as well as I do how bad it gets.

    A door has been opened that cant be closed and will trap those who stay too long. Good luck!

    • ragle3 hours ago
      I hate it, but I'm actually counting on this and how it affects my future earning potential as part of my early(ish) retirement plan!

      I do use them, and I also still do some personal projects and such by hand to stay sharp.

      Just: they can't mint any more "pre-AI" computer scientists.

      A few outliers might get it and bang their head on problems the old way (which is what, IMO, yields the problem-solving skills that actually matter) but between:

      * Not being able to mint any more "pre-AI" junior hires

      And, even if we could:

      * Great migration / Covid era overhiring and the corrective layoffs -> hiring freezes and few open junior reqs

      * Either AI or executives' misunderstandings of it and/or use of it as cover for "optimization" - combined with the Nth wave of offshoring we're in at the moment -> US hiring freezes and few open junior reqs

      * Jobs and tasks junior hires used to cut their teeth on to learn systems, processes, etc. being automated by AI / RPA -> "don't need junior engineers"

      The upstream "junior" source for talent our industry needs has been crippled both quantitatively and qualitatively.

      We're a few years away from a _massive_ talent crunch IMO. My bank account can't wait!

      Yes, yes. It's analogous to our wizzardly greybeard ancestors prophesying that youngsters' inability to write ASM and compile it in their heads would bring end of days, or insert your similar story from the 90s or 2000s here (or printing press, or whatever).

      Order of "dumbing down" effect in a space that one way or another always eventually demands the sort of functional intelligence that only rigorous, hard work on hard problems can yield feels completely different, though?

      Just my $0.02, I could be wrong.

    • risyachka4 hours ago
      Yup. This.
  • DocTomoe4 hours ago
    TL;DR: We had one group not do some things, an later found out that they did not learn anything by not doing the things.

    This is a non-study.

    • keithnz4 hours ago
      no, that isn't accurate. One of the key points is that those previously relying on the LLM still showed reduced cognitive engagement after switching back to unaided writing.
      • Miraste4 hours ago
        No, it isn't.

        The fourth session, where they tested switching back, was about recall and re-engagement with topics from the previous sessions, not fresh unaided writing. They found that the LLM users improved slightly over baseline, but much less than the non-LLM users.

        "While these LLM-to-Brain participants demonstrated substantial improvements over 'initial' performance (Session 1) of Brain-only group, achieving significantly higher connectivity across frequency bands, they consistently underperformed relative to Session 2 of Brain-only group, and failed to develop the consolidation networks present in Session 3 of Brain-only group."

        The study also found that LLM-group was largely copy-pasting LLM output wholesale.

        Original poster is right: LLM-group didn't write any essays, and later proved not to know much about the essays. Not exactly groundbreaking. Still worth showing empirically, though.

      • DocTomoe4 hours ago
        And how exactly is that surprising?

        If you wrote two essays, you have more 'cognitive engagement' on the clock as compared to the guy who wrote one essay.

        In other news: If you've been lifting in the gym for a week, you have more physical engagement than the guy who just came in and lifted for the first time.

        • greggoB4 hours ago
          > And how exactly is that surprising?

          Isn't the point of a lot of science to empirically demonstrate results which we'd otherwise take for granted as intuitive/obvious? Maybe in AI-literature-land everything published is supposed to be novel/surprising, but that doesn't encompass all of research, last I checked.

          • DocTomoe4 hours ago
            If the title of your study both makes a neurotoxin reference ("This is your brain on drugs", egg, pan, plus pearl-clutching) AND introduces a concept stolen and abused from IT and economics (cognitive debt? Implies repayment and 'refactoring', that is not what they mean, though) ... I expect a bit more than 'we tested this very obvious common sense thing, and lo and behold, it is just as a five year old would have predicted.'
            • Miraste4 hours ago
              You are right about the content, but it's still worth publishing the study. Right now, there's an immense amount of money behind selling AI services to schools, which is founded on the exact opposite narrative.