36 pointsby kaycebasques6 months ago5 comments
  • ecb_penguin6 months ago
    I didn't realize how poorly YC startups were managed until I joined one.

    It's mostly a ponzi scheme, where unprofitable companies pass their books off to non-technical investors that love hype.

    > 1 slide. 1 minute pitches. 1 speaker.

    This is why YC has such poor results. They're more interested in "1 slide" vs actual financials.

    > Vertical AI was all over the place. Cursor for X was also prevalent.

    No thought leadership at all.

    • HPMOR6 months ago
      YC is very similar to a university. There is a small group of companies that create the reputation on which everybody lives. The results are extremely exponentially distributed. So yes, it makes sense you joining some arbitrary YC startup was a bad experience. The average performance of a YC company is __phenomenal__, the median performance is poor.
      • ecb_penguin6 months ago
        > YC is very similar to a university

        No it's not. It's not even remotely comparable.

        > There is a small group of companies that create the reputation on which everybody lives

        Also called luck. YC investors cannot articulate what made them successful, or else they'd have better results.

        Universities have decades of sustained output. They are not comparable.

        > you joining some arbitrary YC startup was a bad experience

        I am at a YC unicorn. We are one of YC's most successful startups.

        > The average performance of a YC company is __phenomenal__

        It absolutely is not. It doesn't even beat the SP500. The __vast__ majority of YC companies are unprofitable failures.

        You could flip a coin and beat YC.

        • HPMOR6 months ago
          You're wrong. YC's returns far exceed the returns of the S&P 500. This is why LP's throw money at YC's funds. And secondly, I've been through YC. It is very apparent after many many group office hours, which startups are likely to be in the 6% unicorn group and which are not. You are correct the vast majority of YC companies are failures. However this does not preclude that the *mean* of YC outcomes is very very good. If Bill Gates were in a room with me and my friends the MEAN net worth would be tens of billions of dollars, the median would be less than a $100k.
          • ecb_penguin6 months ago
            > You're wrong

            You thought YC was comparable to a university

            > This is why LP's throw money at YC's funds

            Yeah, we know hedge funds that throw money at things usually beat the SP500.

            > It is very apparent after many many group office hours, which startups are likely to be in the 6% unicorn group and which are not

            Group office hours and not actual revenue. Proving my point!

            > However this does not preclude that the mean of YC outcomes is very very good

            It absolutely does, lmao.

            > If Bill Gates were in a room with me and my friends the MEAN net worth would be tens of billions of dollars, the median would be less than a $100k.

            Yes, one person being successful, the rest failures would skew the results! Way to prove the point I'm making, lmao.

            • jasonfrost6 months ago
              You agreed with his rephrasing of his original assertion
        • sillyfluke6 months ago
          > There is a small group of companies that create the reputation on which everybody lives

          >> Also called luck.

          Startup skill is a necessary but not sufficient condition for success. You also need luck. I doubt YC would claim otherwise.

          Let's say each startup is a planet. Whoever gets hit with the most asteriods wins. Every conscious right decision and technical prowess that constitutes skill increases the size of the planet. The bigger the planet the more likely that more asteriods hit it. But space is a hig place, the largest planet is not guarenteed to have the most asteriod hits. A smaller planet could actually win. So it is with luck.

          >YC investors cannot articulate what made them successful, or else they'd have better results.

          Again, I doubt YC would contest this. But the power law so far has allowed them to be successful without having to guess correctly who in their pool would become the unicorn.

          >You could flip a coin and beat YC

          Where are you flipping this coin exactly? Are you flipping a coin in a pool containing all the startups in the world? If that's the case I'd like to see you take that bet. But if you flip a coin on Demo day, I'm sure you can beat some YC partners who additionally invest in a personal capacity.

        • pfhayes6 months ago
          Garry Tan posted some data recently on performance investing in demo day: https://x.com/garrytan/status/1927946812364574912

          These returns outperform the S&P. Maybe these aren’t typical, but it’s pretty far from “you could flip a coin and beat YC”

          • ecb_penguin6 months ago
            You need to read the fine print on the slide you linked. They carefully chose a cohort to show these numbers. It only apply to investors that backed 3 or more companies during a demo day. And, as you can see, the more YC drinks it's kool-aide, the worse it performs. Even years when the market was gangbusters, YC still saw decreased returns year over year.

            It's an odd metric to choose, which makes me believe it's one of the few positive ones.

            Also, as I've said, Ponzi schemes work great for the early people. You give $50k to an unprofitable company and convince someone else to give them $1m. You get your investment back plus a little bit, and you leave someone else holding the bag of an unprofitable company.

            > These returns outperform the S&P.

            These very specifically chosen returns outperform the S&P :). That's why it's mostly kids that go through YC.

    • TZubiri6 months ago
      >This is why YC has such poor results. They're more interested in "1 slide" vs actual financials.

      Maybe I'm wrong but YC mostly starts investing in pre-seed stage, where companies don't have financials.

      • ecb_penguin6 months ago
        > where companies don't have financials

        Seems like a pretty good reason to have more information than 1 slide...

        • TZubiri6 months ago
          Oh for sure, I think typical pitch decks have like 10 slides when they are submitted as part of the yc application, plus a video.

          This is just some yc demo exercise

  • mkagenius6 months ago
    Why is this top post on hn within one minute of posting?
    • sillyfluke6 months ago
      I'm guessing the speed with which it received its initial few votes.

      It's a threadbare article with little or no meat on the bone. So it is a little strange.

      • ge966 months ago
        Carl Weathers
      • mkagenius6 months ago
        It had literally two votes. Anyway looks like I shouldn't have brought this issue up, getting downvoted
        • sillyfluke6 months ago
          Yeah, you're supposed to email hn instead of posting if you think it's an issue.

          I've seen 3 point new posts up near the top before so I assumed that's what it was. 2 points top of the page is pretty aggressive tho, it might have been a near instant upvote by someone who was interested in the topic.

    • Brajeshwar6 months ago
      I don’t know how or why, but I have seen this happen many times. Many of my submissions appear at the front within minutes of receiving 2-3 votes. I have no affiliation with YC, nor are my submissions.
      • mkagenius6 months ago
        Bruh, the amount of posts you are doing!
        • Brajeshwar6 months ago
          I submit about 10-15 and sometimes up to 20 a day.

          I have developed a typical routine to submit articles. I tend to gather interesting links during the day, and when America’s West Coast wakes up, I submit them in batches of bursts over an hour or so before I retire for the day.

          https://brajeshwar.com/2023/hacker-news/

    • TZubiri6 months ago
      Maybe karma affects post visibility?
      • mkagenius6 months ago
        No, then he would keep posting whatever every day
        • TZubiri6 months ago
          Maybe karma/posts? So if you get 100upvotes per post, you get prio'd
          • mkagenius6 months ago
            It can't be that simple, it has to do something with the person who upvoted your post.
  • soared6 months ago
    https://billchambers.me/about/

    This page on mobile made me laugh.

    But otherwise, makes sense - get rid off all the flash and this is what demo days/etc are about

  • pyb6 months ago
    "2 on 20" Am I understanding correctly? If every YC startup is shooting for a 20 million USD valuation, that's amazing. Even if not all will make it.
    • HPMOR6 months ago
      Nobody ever pays too much or too little for a startup. Because either you __really__ make it, or you don't. It is statistically more likely for your YC startup to be worth more than $1 billion, than it is to be acquired in a cash deal for $80mm. It is because of this fact that $2/22mm is not unreasonable. However, most of the hot companies during the batch will fetch $3-4mm/30-40mm valuation. The average raise during demo day is close to ~$3mm, the median <$800k.
  • chickenzzzzu6 months ago
    Sounds more like a cattle auction than a place where partnerships are formed to deliver meaningful value to consumers.
    • echelon6 months ago
      This is market efficiency. That's the very definition of delivering meaningful value.

      The more efficient the capital allocation is, the greater the benefit to the whole market.

      The only weirdness is that these are companies led by founders with "personalities". That's a weird variable to correct for.

      • chickenzzzzu6 months ago
        How much more efficient is it to allocate capital to a group individuals who have been educated at institutions that produce an increasingly rigid type of thinker, who are all making the same hype driven products?
        • echelon6 months ago
          That's one type of signal and gradient. There are lots of others. One of the best is traction with paying customers. The great thing is that investment capital can try many strategies at once. As can innovation capital and labor.

          Collectively we are water, filling all the cracks. Marbles, exploring all the slopes and curves. The fitness gradients of the universe are all in front of us. Follow the ones that make sense and that pull at you. We're all programmed differently enough that the whole space is being sampled, even in the weird places, the well-worn yet unweildy paths, and the completely non obvious domains.

          The algorithm focuses energy when certainty crystalizes.

          • chickenzzzzu6 months ago
            Everything you've said about humanity filling cracks and diving deeper into worthwhile problems is correct.

            I do have one question though-- how many YC25 companies have more than $1 million in revenue?

    • orsorna6 months ago
      If you aren't already connected beforehand these rituals are a waste of time.