402 pointsby bredren2 days ago41 comments
  • jackgavigana day ago
    One of the great things about Sneakers is that the McGuffin's core concept still holds up as reasonably credible 30+ years later.

    I first saw this movie in the mid-90s, and it sparked a mild fascination with how cryptography (specifically, RSA) works, that arguably influenced my career path.

    Fun fact: Leonard Adleman (the A in RSA) drafted the words and slides used for the lecture scene: https://molecularscience.usc.edu/sneakers/

    • ecairnsa day ago
      I was a CS major at the University of Washington in the mid 90s. In one of my intro courses we were touching on public key cryptography and this movie came up. The professor mentioned that Adelman was a consultant on the movie and that he was a notoriously slow replier to email. Like you would get a reply weeks or months after you sent an email to him. But, if you asked a question about this movie you'd get a reply to your email almost immediately.
    • wdr1a day ago
      > Fun fact: Leonard Adleman (the A in RSA) drafted the words and slides used for the lecture scene: https://molecularscience.usc.edu/sneakers/

      One of the few movies to have a mathematical consultant in the credits!

      • TrackerFFa day ago
        Interstellar, and Kip Thorne being another one. Though he was a producer.
    • nickpetersona day ago
      I love the joke about being snubbed for mathematical consulting at the oscars.
    • ynniva day ago
      "There isn't a government on this planet that wouldn't kill us all for that thing"
      • zombot15 hours ago
        By now they just declare encryption illegal and order backdoors everywhere.
    • They spelled Len's name wrong in the credits. :/
      • jamesdwilsona day ago
        You might be right, but keep in mind actors often adopt variations for their names and may not even be consistent.
        • zombot16 hours ago
          He was a consultant, not an actor.
  • meifuna day ago
    This movie helped me:

    1. Relate to a blind student in our school when they could hear things differently than the rest of us.

    2. Realize that social engineering is thing and I tried to practice it in high school to gain access to computer rooms where the "fancy" computers were.

    3. Realize that a government can steal or in general can be sneaky/secretive.

    • ethbr1a day ago
      > Realize that social engineering is thing and I tried to practice it in high school to gain access to computer rooms where the "fancy" computers were.

      We realized that door bolts are easy to manually jimmy if not precision-fit.

      Thankfully, our computer lab overseer was a hacker at heart, congratulated us, and got the door fixed.

      I miss the 90s.

      • cestith3 hours ago
        I had a teacher in high school who asked me how secure the data on our lab network was. I asked if I could show her without getting in trouble for knowing how to do something. About fifteen seconds later I asked her if the directory we were looking at had all her tests for the year in it.

        It was, and for anything not requiring an essay-style answer it also had the keys. This one really isn’t impressive to any sophisticated user. They removed the shell from the user menu list of programs, but they left the shell-to-DOS functionality enabled in a few programs they left enabled. The shared drive directory structure was straightforward to navigate, and being DOS had no real security once the user was at a prompt.

        Many of us would spend our in-class lab time playing Scorched Earth or other games installed into hidden directories the students had created.

      • meifuna day ago
        Agreed. I talked my way into the server room several times by different night janitors at my old high school back in 1996. I told them I was there to do maintenance and it wasn't entirely untrue but I was there for running wires and setting up new Macs as part of my class load.
    • I saw this movie as a kid when it came out on vhs. it blew me away! I loved the blind guy. He was amazing. That part where he listens to the sounds on the road to determine where they took Robert Redford. You're right, it made blind people cool.
      • meifuna day ago
        Yes. And the part where he knew where the cryptography device was on the desk.

        Don’t look, listen.

        Then he taps two tuning forks together.

    • gosub1005 hours ago
      2. In high school I tried calling the manufacturer of the lockers and buying a replacement master key, said I was a principal or some nonsense. They turned me down but I forgot why, I doubt my voice even dropped yet.
      • meifun5 hours ago
        I can totally relate.

        We had a Corvus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvus_Systems) and I managed to call them and pretended to have trouble with out system and they asked no questions. Ended up sending a manual to the school and I just watched out for it in the Librarians mail slot.

        Then I formatted the Corvus after copying the various software packages I wanted to use on my Apple IIe.

    • aksss21 hours ago
      2 & 3 for me came from War Games with Matthew Broderick
      • meifun9 hours ago
        another good movie!
        • cestith3 hours ago
          Yet another movie that the “sequel” didn’t really live up to the name.
          • muziqan hour ago
            Had no idea that even existed!
  • Cyphase2 days ago
    When I was a kid we had a VHS recording of Sneakers, with the beginning of an episode of Letterman at the end. I remember my mom liking it. Fond memories. I need to watch it again.

    A couple of scenes:

        Carl: We've got customers.
        Martin: Shoes?
        Carl: Expensive.
        Martin: *fixes tie* Look busy, guys.
    
    And another:

        *after apparently inconveniencing Liz, the group is walking out*
        Cosmo: We'll call you a cab.
        Liz: "Thank you. This is my last computer date."
        *Cosmo stops walking, falling behind*
        Cosmo: "Wait."
        *the group stops and turns*
        Cosmo: "A computer matched her with him? I don't think so."
        *Liz's face falls as Cosmo's henchman start slowly walking up behind her.*
        *dramatic music as we cut and zoom in to Cosmo's face*
        Cosmo: "Marty."
        *Cosmo turns and runs toward his office*
    • > "A computer matched her with him? I don't think so."

      When I first watched this movie, I felt like this was a weak moment in the film. "Computer dating" at the time was laughably bad, so seeing a character regard it as infallible ruined the immersion.

      With age and experience, I now see that some people just throw themselves behind certain technologies, and fail to find flaw. So maybe this character was just a misguided computer dating evangelist, blind to the technology's failings.

      • cestith3 hours ago
        He knew he had something Martin wanted. He knew what Martin and his partners did for a living. There was already the suspected breach, and finding Werner’s card in his office settled that briefly. When the mere mention of a computer came up in this scenario, Cosmo reconsidered how likely it was to be a simple misunderstanding versus his former close friend being involved.
      • KennyBlankena day ago
        Keep in mind the script was from a top-shelf writer who worked on it for ages. It's established earlier in the film that the crew think it's completely plausible a computer dating service would set the two of them up.

        "...Fellas. Fellas, look at this man's trash. He's not looking for "buff." The man who folded this tube of Crest...is looking for someone...meticulous. Refined. Anal. ...What?"

        I think Cosmo's comment - note he's extremely vain, how he dresses, his office is practically a modern art gallery, he's got the organization's Cray sitting on display, etc - just further shows how vain he is, thinking someone as attractive as Liz couldn't possibly be a good match for a nerd like Werner, when it's established that they're actually quite alike/compatible.

        One could imagine that Liz also obeys all speed limits and comes to complete stops at every stop sign...

        • ddingus21 hours ago
          I agree, and would add:

          Cosmo has been in prison for a long time. His perception of dating service implications are unlikely to be contemporary.

    • sbarrea day ago
      I saw Sneakers when it first came out in theatres and at the time I was in high school and working part-time in a shoe store..

      I had learned from the store owner that you can tell so much from someone's shoes, often more than from their clothes.

      Combined with that line in this very formative movie (for me), I still to this day can't help but check someone's shoes when I first meet them.

      • Ntrailsa day ago
        > you can tell so much from someone's shoes

        You can make educated guesses based on apparel of all sorts - but you are always guessing.

        • gopher_spacea day ago
          Other way around. The clothes you wear are a method of communication you're actively engaging in whether you're aware of it or not. This is a really useful thing to be aware of, since it lets you craft narratives in other people's heads.
        • AStonesThrowa day ago
          Yes but many times, these can be quite valuable inferences.

          Shoes are indeed a valuable source of information about a person. I knew at least one BH case manager who really paid attention to them.

          Shoes are expensive, very durable, and typically one of those items that people have only a few pairs of. So while someone can easily change their outfit to match a situation, place, or mood for the day, they may be less likely to change their shoes to match more than a basic purpose.

          And shoes tend to accumulate evidence of where someone's been. Are they muddy, dusty, spit-polished?

          Personally, I own about five pair of shoes. I have a pair of Oxford dress shoes, a very nice pair of white New Balance with hook-and-loop, some hiking boots I picked up at JC Penney, and a few others. My clothing, on the other hand, is mostly Adidas and Columbia and some tee shirts, but I don't own any Adidas or Columbia shoes. So you can tell a lot about me, no matter what I'm wearing, by studying my shoes for a while.

          I met another BH professional who said he owned 52 pairs of Crocs. He said that he'd kicked an addiction habit, but it seems he traded something unhealthy for perhaps a less-detrimental dependence on collecting shoes. To each his own, I suppose, and surely a lot of information could be gleaned about this fellow if you paid attention to which pair of Crocs he'd selected for the day.

          • dylan604a day ago
            > Shoes are expensive, very durable, and typically one of those items that people have only a few pairs of.

            Maybe that used to be true, but modern shoes while expensive are not very durable, and most people have several pairs today.

            • 5423542342353 hours ago
              Modern shoes can be very cheap, which is also not durable at all. Beyond that, price and durability are two different metrics, and can tell you about a person. Some people buy expensive shoes specifically for the durability, which could tell you things about what they value, that they are willing to do research. Some people buy expensive shoes for wrongly perceived durability, which could tell you that they want to be perceived as rugged or refined. Some people buy expensive shoes for their lack of durability, which could tell you that they want people perceive their status (conspicuous consumption).

              Someone wearing pristine white Jordans, Red Wings boots, or bottom tier Cole Hann dress shoes can all say things about a person.

            • rbanffya day ago
              Expensive shoes are still a good indicator of social status.
          • pikera day ago
            BH professional?
            • lsaferitea day ago
              My best guess is Behavioral Health
          • invalidlogin19 hours ago
            What is BH?
    • Karellena day ago

          Marty: Organised crime?
          Cosmo: Trust me, it ain't that organised!
    • cwea day ago
      I’ve always hated the thing about computer dating. Why would that have been so unreasonable?
      • Cyphasea day ago
        A couple of potential answers:

        * It's not about computers and them (Liz and Werner). It's about Cosmo.

        * Computer dating is about algorithms and pattern matching. Cosmo didn't have any suspicion of Liz and Werner going on a date; even if he saw a type-mismatch, humans are complex and multi-faceted. But when he learned a computer program ostensibly made the match, his alarm bells went off.

        • cestith3 hours ago
          Beyond that, there was already the suspected breach of the site which he knew Bish was interested in breaching. The mere mention of a computer being involved would have made him far more likely to suspect his involvement.
    • heyflyguya day ago
      I still remember that goofy looking run, haha
    • sgta day ago
      Dude, your mom just wanted to see Robert Redford. The guy was a chick magnet.
  • xattta day ago
    Re: negative re-masters

    I can’t help but notice that a number of older and very prominent shows on streaming services are clearly ripped from a video cassette.

    For example, the older Simpsons episodes on Disney Plus. Some of the episodes have very prominent dot crawl which is unacceptable for a digital format that you pay for.

    I also can’t imagine the film masters were trashed, or that the show was composited to video tape. Were studios really that reckless with their properties?

    • dylan604a day ago
      >I also can’t imagine the film masters were trashed, or that the show was composited to video tape.

      So many shows very much were composited to analog video tape. I personally worked on edit sessions where multiple film-to-tape transfers were composited to 1" then BetacamSP then digital formats like DigiBeta and everything that followed. I get it is hard to grok for eople without direct experience only ever knowing digital comping with modern software packages without ever hitting tape. But us ol'timers remember the pain

      > Were studios really that reckless with their properties?

      yes. while it might not have been done out of malice, but just lack of future thinking. for a studio making the first season of an animated title, they might not have even considered their show would be so successful. also, there's no way that they could have predicted HD=>4K and digital streaming. they are only human and just trying to stay on schedule with barely enough time to meet deadlines. meeting air date deadlines are much more strict than whatever dot release your PM is pushing for in whatever software product you might be working.

      • jboggana day ago
        This is spot on. I had a friend working on early streaming license deals, and a typical pattern was getting the streaming rights to a show and then going on a lengthy adventure to find a higher quality master, if any existed. If you see bad transfers or old SD resolution in a digital format I want you to know that someone tried but the originals were in fact lost.
        • dylan604a day ago
          In the early days of streaming, content owners only had what they had sitting on the shelves. Most of those were SD masters that were formatted for broadcast. In the US, that meant 30i sources. Most TV was shot on 24p film, transferred to 30i in a telecine, edited without any regard to that film cadence, and that was that. The opening/closing songs were typically cut from that same footage, and doing an inverse telecine on that content was a nightmare. Everyone of us that dealt with that to supply the early days of streaming content had "so much fun".

          Content owners suddenly had a vested interest in making their content look better, and now there's a way to get compensated to have better sources made to provide to those streaming platforms. To find the original film from old SD TV shows would be very rare. Feature films have been scanned from negative many many times. I was part of scanning a studio's entire library to HD. They've since gone back and scanned (or are scanning) again for 4k. Each time the scan is done, money is spent (and it's not cheap).

          Now, the streaming platforms have the clout to refuse "subpar" sources now, and can demand that these restorations are the preferred source

      • RajT88a day ago
        For sure, Matt Groening and co. had no idea how much of a phenomenon The Simpsons was going to be early on.
      • doublerabbita day ago
        O/T: I've discovered that the animation studio I had a gig for has shut it's doors recently to liquidation.

        They had a killer render archival server with archives from 2000-onwards show casing what the studio had studio made. Cartoons, Movies; a collection of praised possessions.

        It pains me to think that the studio has handed this over to the liquidators only for it to be shredded and now how many OG copies have now been destroyed.

        • rbanffya day ago
          I’d assume the hard drives live now in someone’s basement. A lot of people save things like that from destruction.
          • dylan604a day ago
            Just because you buy content on the auction block does not mean you own the rights to release that content. You've only purchased the physical media, not the rights. I know someone that has been down that very road after purchasing stuff from an auction after the death of a studio.
            • rbanffya day ago
              They might be unable to release it, but they can still preserve it.
              • dylan604a day ago
                for what purpose? waiting for the copyright to expire, and then hope to cash in on it in the public domain?

                if the content is unreleased, there's other complications. you'd then be using the likeness of any talent involved whether that's their voice performance for animated content or for live action their full person. you'll be susceptible to those issues for releasing it.

                • dredmorbius8 hours ago
                  Internet Archive regularly puts out calls for such works, and maintains several of those archives.

                  As a registered library, they can do this, and even make (at least some) works publicly available.

                  • dylan6043 hours ago
                    Why would the IA put out calls for unreleased, possibly unfinished work, that comes from a bankrupted studio? That seems like a very strange request. Do you have a link showing them asking for that? Also, what does being registered library have to do with being able to publish unreleased works that were never made available? I really think we're stretching credibility here
                    • dredmorbius2 hours ago
                      Unfinished works are still archivable, FWIW. US copyright law is in effect for any work of original authorship, for 95 years from publication, or 120 years from creation (whichever expires first) or author's life + 70 years: <https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html>. After such time (and far sooner for works prior to post hoc copyright extensions) all works enter the public domain.

                      That said, yes, generally I'm more familiar with IA archiving published or broadcast works. Several of those collections are listed here: <https://archive.org/details/tv>.

                      Brewster Kahle addresses unpublished works in this essay, in part:

                      The traditional definition of a library is that it is made up of published materials, while an archive is made up of unpublished materials. Archives play an important function that must be maintained — we give frightfully little attention to collections of unpublished works in the digital age.* Think of all the drafts of books that have disappeared once we started to write with word processors and kept the files on fragile computer floppies and disks. Think of all the videotapes of lectures that are thrown out or were never recorded in the first place.*

                      <https://blog.archive.org/2020/10/07/on-bookstores-libraries-...>

                      (Emphasis added.)

                      That said, I haven't found any specific calls for donations of unpublished works, though my search was quite cursory.

      • coreyoa day ago
        amusing that the studios do all this work in contracts to make sure they have rights as long as they possibly can and then they forget to take care of the physical media
        • dylan60420 hours ago
          I think you're confusing modern day contracts with content from pre-2000. With DVDs, people started paying attention to the quality of the content to the point that additional things were added to the contracts to have cast/crew available for behind the scenes during principle photography, after edit for commentary, etc. Before that, it was just take the released version and dub it to VHS were quality was an after thought.

          That older content just had no concepts of ever being used for anything other than the original broadcast, or eventually, hopefully, syndicated broadcasts. People survived off of royalties from syndication which is why it was a big deal reach that 100th episode. Once they reached 100, they could phone it in. That's why so many older shows had 20+ episodes per season to get to 100 faster.

          times have changed. the quality of home video is so much better than it was, and now people pay attention to those details. compare a 4k HDR with surround to a VHS with maybe HiFi stereo audio tracks played back on most commonly the speakers on the TV itself. The timeline from VHS->DVD->HD->4K is not linear which is something I think a lot of people do not appreciate.

    • Aurornisa day ago
      The X-Files went the opposite way: The streaming release was remastered from higher quality originals that had been prepared ahead of time for the eventual arrival of higher resolution TV.

      I’m not surprised that some shows were never archived at higher quality, though. The entertainment industry has a lot of people who just want to get their job done and go home, just like any other industry. Many classic series were not instant classics, they were shoestring operations trying to get a product out the door on too little budget. Getting anything across the finish line was the objective, not archiving the highest quality for future generations.

      • bayindirha day ago
        > The entertainment industry has a lot of people who just want to get their job done and go home, just like any other industry.

        I think another reason, in addition to yours, is that the entertainment industry sees their products are disposable, or want them to be disposable. This way they can pull the drain plug from the pool, so they can pump in new content into it. Otherwise, listening same good old songs will inevitably eat into profitability of the new releases, because you can watch/listen for so long in a given time.

        BTW, I don't share the same views with "the entertainment industry". You can't get the good old albums from my cold, dead hands.

        • ElevenLathea day ago
          I work in gaming and this is very much the same attitude, though it is starting to change: with things like Xbox Game Pass, there are now theoretically revenues to be skimmed from older releases via subscription revenues, so there is at least lip service paid to proper archiving of working files and source code. It's still tough to make the case not to phone home or rely on publisher-hosted services.
        • anjela day ago
          Residuals as quite lucrative potenial income stream argue to the contrary.
          • happycubea day ago
            That made me think of Law and Order (since I remember reading that day players want to get on those shows for the residuals), and I saw a relatively early episode of SVU on a rerun that looked freshly shot.
      • kranke155a day ago
        The new X files HD/4K version looks preposterous! Ridiculous! I’ve been watching them recently and I was blown away by how good they were.
      • rbanffya day ago
        We knew HD TV was coming since the days of the first analog demos (1125i, IIRC). It’s also a matter of budget to shoot in high quality film, shoot widescreen, and get any SFX/VFX at least recomposed. Entire series of Dr Who were lost to originals being reused.
      • schlauerfoxa day ago
        I know most productions now run so tight they rent their stuff, so once the edit is done and shipped most of the raw footage is all purged. No outtakes or extra footage exist. Actors prefer this for their image, studios will not pay to store any of it, but what a loss.
        • rbanffya day ago
          A case for having a couple LTO-9 drives on hand.
    • zimpenfisha day ago
      > I also can’t imagine the film masters were trashed, or that the show was composited to video tape.

      Happens more than you'd think (in the past, at least - it's obviously much easier now with digital storage.) Couple of examples I remember off the top of my head:

      re: Adrian Maben making a Director's Cut DVD of "Live In Pompeii"[0]

      "While searching in the French and English film laboratories for the unused negative we learnt of a disaster. On the initiative of the French Production Company, MHF Productions, the 548 cans of 35mm negative and prints of the rushes had been stored at the Archives du Film du Bois d’Arcy outside Paris. One of the employees, a certain Monsieur Schmidt, "le Conservateur," unfortunately decided that he wanted to make extra storage space on his shelves for more recent films and that the Floyd footage was without interest or value. The 548 cans of negative and the prints of the Pink Floyd unused rushes and outtakes were incinerated."

      re: Dr Who missing episodes[1]

      "Further erasing of Doctor Who master videotapes by the Engineering Department continued into the 1970s. Eventually, every master videotape of the programme's first 253 episodes (1963–69) was destroyed or wiped. The final 1960s master tapes to be erased were those for the 1968 serial Fury from the Deep, in August 1974."

      [0] https://www.brain-damage.co.uk/other-related-interviews/adri...

      [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_missing_episodes

    • al_borlanda day ago
      I believe Technology Connections on YouTube did a video on film vs video where he touched on this. Film was much more expensive, and people weren’t always thinking about remasters 30 years later. If something was being shot just to air on TV, sometimes VHS was all they did.
    • MisterTeaa day ago
      > Were studios really that reckless with their properties?

      Some were. Once the film made its money in the theaters it was then put in a vault and forgotten about. The theaters were supposed to return the release prints but sometimes the projectionist would "lose" them. The studio vault those films sat in sometimes catch fire or water leaks in. If the originals are destroyed then hopefully a few release prints are floating around in the hands of theaters, individuals (where those lost prints end up), or television stations. If not, then its gone forever.

      • MrRadara day ago
        It doesn't even take destruction of the property to keep media locked up forever, sometimes even just IP rights. For example original Brave Little Toaster film has never seen an official release in HD because it was produced as a joint venture and nobody has (apparently) been willing or able to hammer out a deal between the various rights holders for a new home video or streaming release.

        In 2023 a 4K scan of a theatrical print was uploaded to Youtube and despite the slightly rough state of the print it remains the best quality you can view the film today. There's even a pinned comment under the video from the original director thanking the person who uploaded it to Youtube for preserving their film!

      • bravoetcha day ago
        There are several Star Wars film projects that are collecting old film print, negatives, laser disc, etc and using that to remake the original releases. Gemini is very good at listing off all these projects, if you're interested.
    • hylaridea day ago
      Over the years I’ve met several people that worked in the cartoon industry because where I live (Toronto) used to be an outsourcing market for many 1980s/1990s cartoons.

      The vast majority of the people that commissioned them, including very successful series, wanted it done as fast as possible to get it to TV ASAP. Often they had toys lines up for Xmas that needed to be synced up with schedules. I know people that had worked on some very famous cartoons, including the 1980s Ninja Turtles, Care Bears, etc and the studios commissioning them were very willing to take errors, substandard, and otherwise less than ideal work to get it to market on time (much to the frustration of the artists who were being treated like factory line workers). They did say the creators of Ren and Stimpy were fantastic to work for and they had all sorts of fun Easter eggs added.

      Anyways, it does not surprise me that a lot of the work from this era was not taken care of, especially some of the more forgettable episodes of popular shows. A lot of the early licensed work on Netflix was obviously copied from DVD/Blue Rays at the time, too. It can be a lot of work to properly deal with aspect ratios, colour correction, de-interlacing, as well as upscaling the very low analog resolutions.

      Maybe AI can get good enough to fix it now, though.

      • doublerabbita day ago
        Does it need to be fixed though? If children got on with it then, why cannot we now?
        • happycubea day ago
          Because children watched them on 13"-25" tube TV's that were designed to make those imperfections look acceptable (for the time), that a modern display blows up to proportions never seen during production even with the best studio displays of the era.

          semi-related: I'm visiting my parents with a Sony OLED, and the frame interpolation made parts of Monty Python and the Holy Grail look like it was shot on an HD video camera.

    • gnomesteela day ago
      Shows like The Simpsons that were only made for broadcast never had a film negative. It was likely mastered to analog tape.
      • They're solidly pre-digital. Somewhere, the individual frames were drawn/painted on cel, were they not? In principle, remastering should still be possible.
        • neckro23a day ago
          It would take a ton of work, especially for a show as long-running as The Simpsons. The original materials probably aren't even available anymore.

          I believe the reason they were able to remaster lots of old Japanese anime OVAs in HD is because the animation was recorded to film first. I wouldn't be surprised if the Simpsons just used videotape instead.

        • gnomesteela day ago
          I shouldn't have said never had a film negative. They likely scanned hand-drawn cells to film, then transferred that to tape. At the time they likely saw the NTSC tape as the master.
          • rbanffya day ago
            The same way that today we rescan originals at 4 or 8K is also telling we aren’t thinking about 16K or 32K with 30 bits per hyperspectral channel.

            Even though you need really great quality originals to make it work.

        • HideousKojimaa day ago
          Assuming the cels weren't lost or destroyed. Or auctioned off to fans/collectors, as was often done: https://www.animationconnection.com/original-production-cels

          In fact there's an episode of the Simpson's where Bart buys an Itchy & Scratchy animation cel and is disappointed when it's just a segment of Itchy's arm (or something like that).

          EDIT: https://simpsonswiki.com/wiki/Itchy_%26_Scratchy_animation_c...

          The cel had Scratchy's arm, and it was in the episode "Lady Bouvier's Lover" (S05 E21).

          • Stratoscopea day ago
            Guilty as charged! This brings back a memory from around 1980.

            I ordered an animation cel from Original Animation Art (Starshine Group).

            You had to mail them a check and a description of what you were looking for, and hope for the best.

            The first one they sent me was a little bit better than Scratchy's arm, but not by much. I returned it and asked for something with the entire character in it.

            They sent Daffy Duck nearly off the edge of the frame with a nasty scowl. Not fun to look at.

            For the third try, I asked if I could please have something with the character smiling and in the center of the frame. And they sent a wonderful cel of Porky Pig from A Connecticut Rabbit in King Arthur's Court!

            It looks very much like this one, but only Porky and not the background:

            https://www.comic-mint.com/chuck-jones/a-connecticut-rabbit-...

            That cel must have been from the same scene as mine, as some elements of it are identical, particularly his right hand holding the torch.

            Many years later I bought the DVD of this movie, stepped through it and found the exact frame with my cel. Too cool!

    • toyga day ago
      > can’t imagine the film masters were trashed, or that the show was composited to video tape

      The first few seasons were meant to be just a segment inside a sketch-based tv show (i.e. some of the most disposable, worst-aging, least-resyndicated material that tv studios will ever produce) and the budget was very small.

      • wk_enda day ago
        Nothing that anyone’s watching on Disney+ was from The Tracy Ullman Show. And by the second or third season of the show proper it was already a bona fide cultural phenomenon, so one would hope (hah) Fox might’ve been a bit forward thinking by then. Alas.
        • happycubea day ago
          Yup, one would think the Simpsons would have been fully HD remastered by now.
      • BHSPitMonkeya day ago
        What you're referring to came before "the first few seasons". Season 1 and onward are the standalone TV show, spun off from the Tracey Ullman Show shorts.
    • Henchman21a day ago
      Tell me you haven’t worked in entertainment without actually…

      My experience in entertainment has given me the following perspective: be happy anything gets made. The entire industry is so awash in drugs, egos, and money that pushing ANYTHING out the door is an accomplishment.

    • bredrena day ago
      Sometimes it happens by accident. See the 2008 Universal Studios fire, which destroyed music and film masters:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Universal_Studios_fire

      • bayindirha day ago
        ...and is covered up for years.
    • mannyv4 hours ago
      From a business perspective, each movie is generally its own LLC. So once everything's wrapped up the things need to be disposed, and where those things go is unclear.

      I mean, storage is forever...but who wants to pay for storage forever?

    • sgta day ago
      Speaking of, I am desperately trying to get hold of Then Came Bronson that is of reasonable quality. Great and well known TV-series that came out in 1969. It's simply impossible to get a good rip though.

      The only copy that exists (as far as I know) came from a VHS recording of a TV-channel in the 1980s. But surely the film rolls still exist?

      • bayindirha day ago
        > But surely the film rolls still exist?

        I just watched a video revealing that many multichannel masters of big artists have gone up in flames in a big warehouse fire in 2008 [0] [1], and a comment told that a film company burnt down their silent film archive to get insurance money.

        So, I don't bet.

        [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9eXk4o35UI

        [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/magazine/universal-fire-m...

      • MrRadara day ago
        A while ago I found a few episodes of a 1950s crime drama/noir series called M Squad (the M is for "murder") on Youtube. I don't recall exactly how but probably because someone mentioned it was a direct inspiration for short-lived Police Squad series and later the Naked Gun films.

        Anyways, I went to see if there was an official DVD release of it, and there was but several of the episodes were sourced from off-air TV recordings from reruns in the 1980s because those were the only copies the distributor could find! They were originally planning to release the set without them but asked fans if they could source copies which is how they ended up with those recordings. I didn't end up purchasing it because even the episodes where they had a better quality source weren't mastered particularly well to the point where several reviews said they were borderline unwatchable due to the image getting crushed into murky darkness thanks to the noir lighting and DVD MPEG-2 compression.

    • PaulHoulea day ago
      Funny some of the best "home theater" experiences I have lately are VHS tapes which, when decoded by something Dolby Pro Logic compatible, have a great 5.1 soundtrack.

      Contrast that to DVD-era 5.1 soundtracks which are usually nerfed because they are afraid you'll play them on a 2 channel system or Blu Ray-era 5.1 soundtracks which are nominally 7.1 or 9.1 but are illegible on any sound system whatsoever because modern movies don't care if you can understand what the actors say. You're going to watch with the subtitles on anyway. But heck, even downmarket platforms like Tubi are crammed with subtitled Italian crime dramas and subprime anime, so every cloud has a silver lining.

    • bluGilla day ago
      If you look close at the early silent movies: the campfires are burning the film from even older movies that are thus completely lost.
    • etempletona day ago
      Film begins degrading immediately even if well stored. Television was seen as largely disposable and was treated as such.
    • ornornora day ago
      Same for older family guy episodes also on Disney +… maybe it’s a Disney + thing where they can’t be bothered?
    • esafaka day ago
      I recall reading that they assumed TV shows did not have as much long-term value as films.
    • itisita day ago
      > Were studios really that reckless with their properties?

      The first two seasons of Monty Python’s Flying Circus were almost erased because the BBC wanted to reuse the broadcast tapes. [0]

      [0] https://www.cracked.com/article_42008_monty-pythons-flying-c...

    • > unacceptable for a digital format that you pay for

      > Were studios really that reckless with their properties?

      These corporations could not care less, it's just money to them. Streaming services will take your money and ship you "high definition" nonsense that's so horribly compressed it has artifacts in 90% black frames.

      If you want quality, you need to find the obsessives out there who will not be satisfied unless they have the absolute best version of everything. These are the people who will track down and scan the negatives the company left lying around to rot using equipment worth tens of thousands of dollars.

      https://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/project-4k77/

      These people really put these billion dollar corporations to shame.

    • > I also can’t imagine the film masters were trashed, or that the show was composited to video tape.

      I obviously can't speak for a level of acclaim something like The Simpsons, but more broadly speaking: creating something is fun but being sentimental and treating projects as precious is something that is increasingly burdensome with each day that passes.

      Let's say I do the following:

      1) I take a photograph of a flower

      2) I remove dust spots, adjust saturation and a few other settings in post-production

      3) I crop and resize it

      With each step, copies of the image are made.

      After that, I export to several file types.

      Then consider that one photo shoot might have 15 photos of that same subject alone, with minor or small "in camera" settings changed. Then add different angles + in camera setting changes. Then add all of the other subjects I shot that day.

      Should I keep everything from every change? Would anyone truly, genuinely care about seeing some...particularly unremarkable image of a flower captured by a complete "nobody"? I'm not Ansel Adams after all. Most people probably don't even care about the finished product. It feels arrogant to presume that anyone would be that into my work. The whole idea of having a fan base just feels...preposterous. I might be okay, or even good at creating some specific sort of thing, but retaining high resolution, originals is just kind of insane. Unless you've got some kind of public validation by way of taking in millions and millions of dollars, or you're a household name with a team of people assisting you, it just feels almost humiliating to think that anybody would be clamoring to see your work decades later.

      Maybe other people who do creative things feel differently. I just tend to assume that even with something as time intensive as animation, in the heat of the moment, someone like Matt Groening thought that people probably wouldn't remember The Simpsons decades afterward. There's a kind of secret hope in creation, in hoping that maybe others will enjoy it, but it feels pompous to entertain the notion that you should treat it like some kind of artifact.

      To put it in developer terms, suppose that someone would be interested in combing through the archives of our GitHub repos for some random side-project we worked on 20 years earlier. "Wow! Version 0.2.44! This was before he took out all of those crazy comments talking about the famous bug. It's so cool to be able to see this code in its original state!" It just doesn't happen. Maybe some other professionally-minded person glances at some iteration because they are trying to discern why or how you did some specific thing, but it's not like we expect our software to be beloved the way someone might think of a world-renowned film. It'd be amazingly gratifying, but what are the chances?

    • They're at their best when they're reckless... it gets so much worse. There was a 4th tv network in the 1950s that died quite soon, and they had a Jackie Gleason show of their own that is now lost to time. At some point in the early 1960s, they had a board meeting to discuss what to do with the accumulation of taped archives (quadruplex I guess?), and the lawyer spoke up "I'll take care of it". He loaded them up into his car that weekend and dumped them in the river.

      If they were only careless, one might be relieved that there was no intention of being so destructive. Often though, they're criminally negligent or malevolent. And that was back when things were easy... now days they have to contend with digital materials that need a petabyte array.

      • rbanffya day ago
        We might need to build faster than light ships and great radio telescopes to get those broadcasts recorded.
  • psanforda day ago
    I was shocked when I rewatched this recently just how good the cryptography technobabble is in this movie. Specifically the scene where the professor is presenting on breaking public key cryptography. The very first thing he mentions is a number field sieve. Nice work hiring whatever cryptography consultant that got for this scene.
    • ckozlowskia day ago
      It was none other than Leonard Adleman of RSA fame.
    • binka day ago
      I think the only part that really pulled me out of the movie was when they were testing the device and it was decrypting a dial-up feed random character by random character on the screen. It wasn't "Hackers" bad but it was still pretty unbelievable.
      • myself248a day ago
        Oh yeah. It snapped me out of immersion the first time too.

        But upon reflection, I find it forgivable, because if you think about what it would've taken to make it accurate, and then enough narrative to explain it to the fraction of the audience not up on the technical details, you've got a recipe for 15 minutes of yawns.

        The story is no more or less valid for that directorial shorthand, and it could easily be replaced with an authentic scene if you really wanted to. It would break the pacing but not the plot.

      • ynniva day ago
        Once you accept that a movie isn't a documentary, Hackers is a lot of fun. The editor of 2600 consulted on it (and lent his nym)
        • 5423542342353 hours ago
          Hackers does a great job at answers the question “How do you make hacking, which is literally just typing, visually interesting?” It is kind of like Pixar anthropomorphizing things like emotions. The software becomes a semi-physical landscape with viruses moving across and through that space (like the rabbit virus literally multiplying rabbits). It isn’t trying to be “accurate”, its playing with the idea and concept of hacking. I think it is a really fun movie.
        • rbanffya day ago
          The soundtrack is much, much, better.
          • ineptech19 hours ago
            Agreed, just saw the remaster in a theater and it holds up surprisingly well. What seemed like glaring inaccuracies in 1995 now seem like whimsical visualizations and over the top silliness. Except of course "It's got a 28.8 bps modem".

            The other thing I noticed was that it is chock-full of gender non-conformity. Not in the plot, but visually - almost every hacker character wears androgynous clothing or makeup or something along those lines. The over-representation of trans people in computer security is a common trope now and I wonder if Hackers was the first time that was depicted in media.

            • ynniv19 hours ago
              point eight bee pee ess, said no one ever. Also too much ADR to censor words that didn't need to be censored
      • agara day ago
        Little known fact: in the late '00s, PGP Corp had developed a free standalone "Viewer" to decrypt email if you didn't have the full PGP email product installed (the onboarding process walked you through initial key generation and publication on a keyserver).

        The decryption process showed the encrypted PGP Message block and used a similar Sneakers-inspired animation to transform it into your plaintext email. It was incredibly cool and I remain sad that the product never saw the light of day.

      • bravoetcha day ago
        There are a couple of command line play-things to recreate that effect, here's one:

        https://github.com/bartobri/no-more-secrets

      • ryanmcbride18 hours ago
        Hackers is actually good.
    • thephybera day ago
      > … OF GAUSSIAN PROPRTIONS!
  • owlninjaa day ago
    Plenty of good Sneakers comments, but I was also excited to learn from this article that Uncle Buck has also recently gotten the same treatment!

    https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Uncle-Buck-4K-Blu-ray/342214/...

    • zimpenfisha day ago
      Also "Live At Pompeii"[0] (although to my disappointment, it's the cinema version with the DSOTM studio clips - my original experience was the Laserdisc and VHS versions which omitted those because IMO they're not interesting and just get in the way. I'd probably watch "Pink Floyd: DSOTM: BTS" as a standalone thing but it has no place, for me, in "Live At Pompeii".)

      [0] https://superdeluxeedition.com/news/pink-floyd-at-pompeii-mc...

      • dymax78a day ago
        The newly released blu-ray includes both the 85-minute and 60-minute cuts.
      • BLKNSLVRa day ago
        I listen / watch Live At Pompeii every now and then. My son used to enjoy it when he was between four and ten-ish.

        Those deep bass parts of Echoes are magic, when the camera is panning past the speaker stacks.

  • voxadam2 days ago
    My voice is my passport. Verify Me.
    • Just before I left the UK in 2018 there was starting to become this trend for voice verification on some services, in one particular one I had to go through the setup of (perhaps it was Virgin Media? I forget), they had me say "My voice is my passport" to train it on how I sound. I smiled to myself.
      • chedaboba day ago
        I had to do it on either Atom Bank or Starling (signed up for both at a similar time).

        Monzo also have you recite something but it's something far less exciting like "My name is X and I bank with Monzo".

      • al_borlanda day ago
        Charles Schwab does this, but tweaked it to, “my voice is my password.”

        https://www.schwab.com/voice-id

    • nullify882 days ago
      Heavily referenced in Uplink, the hacker video game by Introversion Software.
    • zehaevaa day ago
      I totally say this under my breath every time I have to enter sensitive information while other people are around.
    • devoutsalsa2 days ago
      This is always the first thing I remember about the movie...

      COOTYS RAT SEMEN

      "No, I don't."

      "No. No."

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GutJf9umD9c

      • sneaka day ago
        One of my cover/shell companies for privacy purposes is an anagram of that phrase. :D
        • sgta day ago
          Let me guess your password...

          "Too many secrets"

          • 9 hours ago
            undefined
  • joshstrangea day ago
    I cannot hear the word "verify" and/or "passport" without saying "My voice is my passport, verify me" under my breath.
    • MisterTeaa day ago
      Heard a Verizon tech on a phone call to tech-tech (tech^2?) support and the automated attendant stated "Repeat after me, my voice is my password" and the tech responded "my voice is my password" then had to wait on hold. Felt a little dystopian.
  • jph2 days ago
    Sneakers and Setec Astronomy became my go to for example encryption code for years. If you're not familiar with Setec Astronomy, you're in for a treat. <3
    • glimshe2 days ago
      Setec Astronomy is also the name, obviously inspired by the movie, of a successful MIT Puzzle Hunt group.
    • ghostDancer2 days ago
      I think you keep too many secrets.
      • sixtram2 days ago
        The question is, can you guarantee my safety?
        • 2 days ago
          undefined
    • dpifkea day ago
      "Setec Astronomy" is the SSID of my home wifi network.

      The password is the missile launch code from War Games.

    • jmuguya day ago
      I think you mean cootys rat semen.
      • lantastica day ago
        Clearly you didn't read my socrates note.
  • greaseguma day ago
    All I remember from seeing this as a kid is that, in the final scene, River Phoenix asks the hot government agent for her phone number. The number she gives is a real non-555 number--pretty sure it was 818 area code?. You could call that number and hear a message from the character for many years.

    Was this the only movie ever to do this?

    • You're gonna love the answer to that. Disney's 1994 family holiday treat, The Santa Clause, starred Tim Allen as a guy who (I'm remembering this as I'm typing it and holy cow) sort of kills Santa Claus by startling him into falling off the roof. He then puts on the Santa suit and becomes the archetype himself. But in that movie, there's an off-hand reference to a phone number: 1-800-SPANK-ME, meant entirely sarcastically. Turns out, either that was already a real number or some enterprising pornographer recognized that there's no such thing as bad publicity, and precocious youngsters who called the line after watching the movie were invited to pay $5/minute for "the hottest phone line in America".

      https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/santa-clause-deleted-scene...

      • a day ago
        undefined
    • ethbr1a day ago
      Tossing a few ARG links here, since the heyday of larger games (and especially ones with PTSN connectivity) is old enough some HNs might not have experienced them.

      https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0119174/

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alternate_reality_ga...

      It's a shame too, as they were unique. Would love to see a nationally-accessible Meow Wolf tie-in.

      PS: ilovebees

  • pavlova day ago
    The design of Blu-ray.com makes me nostalgic for a web where 12px Verdana was the obvious ideal body font, margins were an optional luxury, and Mac OS X Aqua-style shiny blue-gray gradients behind a menu bar were the height of sophistication. (You want just a little bit of blue glow at the bottom of the gradient for that translucent 3D effect that Steve Jobs called "lickable".)
  • pixelmonkeya day ago
    I really love “Sneakers.” It’s one of the best classic “hacker” films. This essay also does a nice job of breaking down a scene you might not have otherwise noticed, which has some lovely filmmaking technique and subtle sound design at play:

    https://slate.com/culture/2012/09/searching-for-playtronics....

    The ensuing despair over how to proceed is interrupted by the voice of Whistler (David Strathairn, Bay Area native), the team’s blind technician. “What did the road sound like?” he asks. “Did you go over any speed bumps? Gravel? How about a bridge?”

    I nearly stood up in the theater from excitement. I’d never seen anything like it: the geography of San Francisco turned into a puzzle to be solved.

  • pier25a day ago
    That "change the world" scene in the Cray computer room still gives me the chills:

    https://youtu.be/coDtzN6bXAM

  • stuaxo2 days ago
    "The dialog is clear, sharp, stable, and easy to follow." if we didn't already know it was an older film this would be the thing that nailed it.
    • bbarnetta day ago
      That, and its cousin the shaky cam.

      "Let's make things difficult to see and hear. That makes for better cinema!"

      Jackie Chan once discussed action scenes in US movies versus his movies. Western films: cut before the punch lands, maybe cut a few more times. Hong Kong moves: just show the action in one scene.

      • nullify88a day ago
        A great example of this is Hard Boiled 1992, the Hospital Shootout.

        I think audiences are beginning to appreciate continuous scenes and are becoming more frequent in western films. The most recent one I can think of is John Wick 4, when it goes top down.

        Some of the recent Michael Bay movies are so aggressive when it comes to cuts, the average shot length must be 2 or 3 seconds.

        • RHSeegera day ago
          Michael Bay are basically not worth watching for me. Things move around the screen too fast to know what's going on. The Transformers movies are especially bad due to it because it can be hard to tell which robots are on which side; and , if you're bouncing all over the screen so you never get a chance to focus on one, it becomes impossible.
        • dylan604a day ago
          Modern live music edits are like this as well. When the guitarist is rocking a solo, I don't want to see the back up singers or the lead singer in rapid fire edits. I want to see the guitarist.

          The top down John Wick scene had me flabbergasted in the theater. The choreography, the camera tracking, the flame thrower like shells from the shotgun all just made for one incredible scene that as you say definitely goes against modern editorial styles.

          • nullify88a day ago
            It's a beautiful scene, and I had to buy Hong Kong Massacre after I read it was an inspiration for that scene. Its got some good beats to shoot to.
        • ripea day ago
          > Some of the recent Michael Bay movies are so aggressive when it comes to cuts

          An excellent episode of Every Frame A Painting is "Michael Bay --- What is Bayhem?" It explains in detail in what way those particular movies are poorly made.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2THVvshvq0Q

          • 5423542342353 hours ago
            I wouldn’t say they are all poorly made, but they became poorly made as they became more Bayhem. Like how Tim Burton leaned too far into his style (and his love of Depp in everything) and lost the balance. The Rock, The Island, Bad Boys, and Armageddon are very fun, exciting, and visually interesting movies. Then he leaned into Bayhem and now his movies are barely comprehensible.

            Every Frame a Painting is a great channel.

        • myself248a day ago
          I once sat in on a TV production class, early in the schoolyear before my schedule got sorted out and it turned out I couldn't take it. So I was in it for one day.

          But the teacher had the incoming students do a very simple exercise: He turned on some broadcast TV, and told us all to bang our fists on our desks every time there was a scene cut.

          Then he changed the channel a few times. Soap opera. Newscast. PBS. Cartoons. Movie. Commercial break.

          Our hands were sore by the end of it, but it stuck with me -- every time I watch older or foreign cinema, I am cognizant of how much longer the shots are.

          • cestith2 hours ago
            So the class wasn’t to be for you, but the instructor taught you a lasting lesson in one day. Damn, I wish every class session I’ve ever had was that impactful.
        • rjmunroa day ago
          Reminds me of Adolescence on Netflix - 4 episodes, each nearly an hour, with no cuts.
      • xattta day ago
        Gasland was unwatchable for me.
    • a day ago
      undefined
  • gittes2 days ago
    Great movie! So many big named actors in it! The director also did Field of Dreams!
    • pier2520 hours ago
      And the music is by none other than James Horner. He's a legend in film scoring.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Horner

    • BLKNSLVR2 days ago
      I'm not a fan of baseball, but I liked Field of Dreams (at the age I was back when it would have made it to Australian TV).
      • johnwalkra day ago
        I am a fan of baseball, and in 2021, there was a real MLB game played at the original filming location. It started with Kevin Costner leading the players out of the cornfield.
        • jprda day ago
          I had goosebumps, they nailed it.
          • BLKNSLVR18 hours ago
            This is kinda way off-topic, but that feeling of the "bringing back" something that had been lost to time that Field of Dreams provides, I get the same thing from the movie Midnight in Paris. Like a literally palpable warm, comforting, everything-is-alright feeling (mostly from the Salvador Dali encounter).
  • int0x21a day ago
    I was pretty sad the other day when I chose 'Setec Astronomy' for a trivia team name & nobody got the reference
    • kstrausera day ago
      I have a sticker for it on my laptop. You're not alone out there.
  • ccheever2 days ago
    I work at a company whose legal name is Monterey's Coast, Inc.
    • sneaka day ago
      Here I was thinking I was clever also naming one of my companies an anagram of that phrase.
      • inanutshellusa day ago
        1. relevant username ... since 2010. you found your thread for sure

        2. hey man you can still be clever, you just... also have birds-of-your-feather out there. :D

      • nullca day ago
        And now we know who founded cooties rat semen.
    • cantrecallmypwd2 days ago
      oystermen coast ;)

      amnesty scooter

      coyote smartens

      economy tasters

      • lantastica day ago
        comatose sentry

        necessary motto

        • cestith2 hours ago
          Ames sentry coot Amy sent scooter Steamy toe corns A messy cottoner
  • BLKNSLVR2 days ago
    Ironically, I think this movie is better suited to being watched on VHS quality.
    • InsideOutSanta2 days ago
      If you have a high-quality digital version of a movie, you can use one of the CRT shaders from modern emulators to make it look like any old TV you want.
    • beeflet2 days ago
      I just watch it with my eyes closed
      • tbyehl20 hours ago
        That was very good, Bish. Remind me to make you an honorary blind person.
      • It sounds like a cocktail party.
      • jpecar2 days ago
        Indeed, sound mix is rather amazing. Incredible stereo picture and depth, something you seldom hear in modern movies.
    • VMGa day ago
      the audio quality of the popular streaming versions is pretty bad
  • pwrrra day ago
    One of my favorite hacker movies! Saw it in at the cinema and numerous times on dvd. Will definetely get this.

    The comment about the shoes, stick with you ;)

  • dang2 days ago
    Related. Others?

    Sneakers – The Team's Demands [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41493927 - Sept 2024 (2 comments)

    Sneakers Film Promotional Floppy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38585213 - Dec 2023 (54 comments)

    No-more-secrets: recreate the decryption effect seen in the 1992 movie Sneakers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36799776 - July 2023 (257 comments)

    Happy 30th anniversary to ‘Sneakers,’ a cult classic that was ahead of its time - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32788136 - Sept 2022 (47 comments)

    ‎Cracking the Code: Sneakers at 30 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31378418 - May 2022 (76 comments)

    Memories of the “Sneakers” Shoot (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29840802 - Jan 2022 (198 comments)

    Sneakers: Robert Redford, River Phoenix nerd out in 1992’s prescient caper - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29620095 - Dec 2021 (7 comments)

    Sneakers (1992), the Film - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26111977 - Feb 2021 (2 comments)

    Tool Recreating the “Decrypting Text” Effect Seen in the Movie “Sneakers” - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11643270 - May 2016 (54 comments)

    Sneakers - movie about pen testing, crypto/nsa, espionage, and deception (1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6196379 - Aug 2013 (5 comments)

    What it was like shooting the movie Sneakers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4498985 - Sept 2012 (46 comments)

    Sneakers (Film, 1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1499298 - July 2010 (1 comment)

    Joybubbles: the blind phreaker whom Whistler was based off of in Sneakers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1443241 - June 2010 (1 comment)

    • shelled2 days ago
      Hey dang, do you do this manually or semi-manually or is it just automated from your a/c?
      • dang2 days ago
        Semi-manually, so I'm glad you included that option :)

        This question comes up a lot - here's an answer that goes over it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40564558

        • ctxc2 days ago
          I was kinda hoping it was manual (sorry). I was fired up at the opportunity to build something tiny that solves a pain, but...man you have a solid setup there :D
        • kleiba2 days ago
          StackOverflow has this feature that when you write a new question, it tries to fuzzy-match that up against existing questions. I wonder if an approach similar to yours, using search, could be employed on HN as well to reduce the number of dupes?!

          This would be helpful especially for those cases where the same story gets covered on multiple places on the internet and so URL matching doesn't help.

        • mosselman2 days ago
          Wow that is cool! Any chance you could share that Arc extension?
          • danga day ago
            I'd have to do brain surgery on it first, to disentangle all the moderation-only code from code that would be generally useful, but yes I'd love to do this someday. It makes reading HN (and posting) so much easier from a desktop browser (if you like keyboard shortcuts, that is).
  • nullify882 days ago
    There are some great stills from that movie. In particular the close up of a person's face with reflections of computer text in glasses often sticks with me. I know Timecop also has a similar scene just after the time jump. I think it looks really cool.

    My brain is weird.

    • firefaxa day ago
      I always liked how they framed the gun being jammed into Gregor's back at the opera, the entire scene carries a certain tension that modern films often fail to sustain or rely on things like explosions or handcannons rather than a .38 and a well acted angry whisper that you will be quietly exiting this theater or your brains will be exiting your fucking skull that is a much more accurate depiction of what it's like to operate under non-official cover.

      Sadly, the movie really shows it's age when the "cultural attaché" starts lecturing Robert Redford's character that "our countries are friends now". It's hard to suspend disbelief watching it nowadays.

      To swing the discussion back to cinematography:

      I'm going to avoid spoilers despite it being an older movie since a disturbing amount of folks in the hacker scene have not seen it but the later scene in the tunnel, arm extended was another great cinematic... shot :-)

      • peetersa day ago
        > Sadly, the movie really shows it's age when the "cultural attaché" starts lecturing Robert Redford's character that "our countries are friends now". It's hard to suspend disbelief watching it nowadays

        But it's set in the past, when relations between the countries were much friendlier. Do you have trouble suspending disbelief during fictional movies set in WWII, because the U.S. and Germany are now allies?

        • firefaxa day ago
          >But it's set in the past, when relations between the countries were much friendlier. Do you have trouble suspending disbelief during fictional movies set in WWII, because the U.S. and Germany are now allies?

          Were they?

          • cestith2 hours ago
            Ostensibly they were much friendlier than before, sometimes even collaborating on a project here or there. I think if you listen carefully you can hear a little bit of humor in Greg saying it.
  • losthobbies2 days ago
    I love this movie so much. I know there are parts that don't make sense but everyone in it is excellent and it's very quotable.

    "Practice, Practice, Practice" "You...won't know...who to trust" "No more secrets"

    The soundtrack is great too.

    • duxupa day ago
      The parts of the soundtrack are on one of my coding playlists.
  • voodooEntitya day ago
    One of my absolute favorite movies.

    Got the dvd still and did recently just watch it again.

  • jack_ppa day ago
    Wonder how fast we're gonna get the torrent

    LE: weird, my local private torrent has a 4k version from 18 April while the site had it on 22 April

  • This came out when I was in high school and it's been one of my favorite movies ever since. I still watch it from time to time.
  • ednitea day ago
    Definitely in my top 5, if not first. Feels right seeing so much appreciation for it here—very fitting for HN.
  • croesa day ago
    Best keypad hacking tutorial
  • keevitajaa day ago
    there's a nice app that "emulates" this movie https://github.com/bartobri/no-more-secrets
  • iancmceacherna day ago
    Love this movie! So many iconic San Francisco scenes!
  • SamuelAdamsa day ago
    Awesome, now do one for the Die Hard series, particularly Live Free or Die Hard.

    I know the first Die Hard is 4k, but the others are not.

  • sgt2 days ago
    Anyone noticed that streaming services start to compromise on quality? With Netflix it's been like that for a while. Apple TV+ seems to be the best. I really want to get into Blu-ray now, looking for a decent player.
    • voxadam2 days ago
      Life is great on the high seas. I've spent nearly 16 years "Passing the Popcorn" and couldn't be happier.
      • dmos62a day ago
        Question: what's the streaming budget for the big platforms? Can they offer 50-100 mbps? For example, a 70 gb video for a 2.5 hour movie would need 67 mbps to stream. Having access to a rip like that for a popular movie (meaning new or classic) is normal "on the high seas" and it has a detectable difference on my budget-tier setup compared to a ~20 gb rip. I'm wondering if streaming platforms can afford to offer something like that.
        • russelga day ago
          Sony Bravia Core has movies up to 80mbps.
        • xienzea day ago
          Sure, they could. But given that the average consumer really doesn’t care that much about picture quality (DVD _still_ outsells Blu-ray for example), why would they bother? Increased storage and bandwidth costs, for what exactly? To cater to the small group of consumers that have good enough hardware (and eyes) to distinguish/care about 20Mb versus 100Mb? Those people are probably buying physical media anyway.
          • dmos62a day ago
            Is it self-evident to you that that's not cost-prohibitive with what people pay today?
            • inanutshellusa day ago
              Capitalism doesn't care whether it's cost-prohibitive.

              It needs to make extra money or lose money in order to affect change.

              • dmos6214 hours ago
                We're misunderstanding each other. I take what you say to mean that Netflix could offer me unlimited bandwidth for 5 euros a month or whatever they're charging.
      • sgta day ago
        How is the life on the private tracking seas? I mean, I'm asking for a friend.
      • pimeysa day ago
        Some butter with your popcorn? Here let me pass.
    • foobarbecuea day ago
      Yeah. I see overcompression on a lot of shows. Dark scenes and star fields tend to make it obvious. Three Body Problem was the worst -- I imagine it would have been consistently visually spectacular if they hadn't compressed it to shit. I've seen it on Apple TV too though-- e.g. really visible on Silo title screens. Love, Death and Robots on Netflix quality was great.
      • myself248a day ago
        Disney's Coco did it for me. There were so many scenes with so much visual detail, streaming compression absolutely wrecked it. I've seen it on Blu-ray since and it's an entirely different experience.

        How they allowed the release to streaming without manually adjusting the compression for those scenes, I don't understand, but someone was slacking.

      • dmos62a day ago
        In my experience, HDR format makes the most difference. There's a dramatic difference between HDR10 and DV.
      • sgta day ago
        And sometimes you just hear it. They compromise on everything, and a lot of people won't complain if the audio quality is low.
        • dylan604a day ago
          We actually had the opposite idea, where we'd steal a few kbps from the video to increase the audio. If you hear poorly compressed audio, the video feels bad too. Hearing clean audio made the video feel better. However, this was way back in the early days where 700kbps total bitrate were on the high end pre-AAC
    • hudoa day ago
      Netflix is "4K Ultra HD: Up to 7 GB per hour". Blu ray is 25GB per side, so max 50GB for 2 layers. Typical movies are 35-50GB. So, BR, and think even DVD still looks much better than any streaming service!
      • criddella day ago
        Sony’s streaming service is 80 Mbps or 36 GB per hour.

        We’re going to have to disagree about DVDs though. They look awful on modern (big) televisions.

      • alias_neoa day ago
        > Blu ray is 25GB per side, so max 50GB for 2 layers

        Are pressed Blu-Rays limited compared to writeable ones?

        I have 100GB BDXL blanks (single-sided) I use as one of the archives for my family photos/videos.

        Couldn't a film BluRay also be 100GB on a single side?

        • voxadama day ago
          Plenty of movies have been released on BD100.

          Very out of date list: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=294596

          On a site that I am a member of there are nearly 1300 BD100 rips available.

          • alias_neoa day ago
            Interesting. I was looking back at my BluRay collection (physical) the other day, looking for a UHD movie to test with, and in my memory, all BDs with UHD, but to my surprise, very few of them were actually UHD, with most just being HD (1080p). I doubt there's in in my collection that are BD100; could I even play them? Currently using a PS5 as my BD player, and PS4 and PS3 before that.
            • fredoralivea day ago
              A PS5 can play UHD Blu-Ray, PS3 and PS4 (even the Pro) can’t.

              UHD discs are fairly noticeable at a distance as they usually use black disc cases instead of blue. They’re somewhat niche (if Blu-ray wasn’t already niche) and often sell at a premium, so I suspect unless you’ve been seeking them out you won’t have them barring the odd multi format bundle.

          • sgta day ago
            A lot more practical than having to deal with physical media. I'd even pay them for it, to have that kind of premium access.
        • fredoralivea day ago
          100GB discs won’t work on standard Blu-Ray players, the basic standard predates BDXL discs. Ultra HD 4K player can play them.
      • sgta day ago
        And Netflix HD (1080) is hardly what one would expect. It may be technically 1080p but the bit rate is often quite low. Most people don't notice or care.
    • theshrike79a day ago
      They all give you "4k", but ATV+ has by far the best bit rate.
    • nullify882 days ago
      I mostly see a lot of stuttering. Either during high action scenes or when there's little happening at all. It's especially noticable on HBO / MAX at 4k DV. I assumed it was due to aggressive encoding.
    • sixothreea day ago
      I would describe Disney as barely 720p when used in any web browser.
      • foobarbecuea day ago
        Seems to vary between shows. Been watching Andor on a good system (LG OLED 4K) and it's spectacular. No compression artifacts or splotchy dark areas.
      • That might be a DRM thing, I know some streamers will only send 720 to Linux x Browser combos.
  • One of my favorite fun facts about Sneakers is that their headquarters was the upper level at the Fox Theatre in Oakland! I think about that every time I go to a show there now.
  • fitsumbelaya day ago
    very cool movie love the e-commerce website for online purchase of said movie
  • Dowwiea day ago
    my voice is my passport
  • Bluestein2 days ago
    Featured here often.-

    ... particularly sadly, at Earl Jones' passing.-

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41493927

    Greatest movie :)

    PS. The quote on "goowill not being something the government does" reads so poignant now ...

    • Karellen2 days ago
      Part of my headcanon for Sneakers is that Agent Abbot (Jones) is actually Admiral Greer (Jones' character from The Hunt for Red October/Patriot Games/Clear and Present Danger), set a bit earlier in his career, and going under a codename while working CyberOps for NSA ;-)
      • Bluesteina day ago
        That is just so spot on :)

        (There's a whole James Earl Jones "pluriverse" out there, ain't it? ...)

      • tclancya day ago
        Same!
        • Bluesteina day ago
          Your username is very relevant!
          • tclancya day ago
            Ha, sadly I was born with it rather than being inventive.
  • nailera day ago
    Sneakers could absolutely be remade with the box being a quantum computer. ‘No more secrets’ being breaking all the pre-quantum encryption.
    • apia day ago
      I wouldn't fully remake it. It's a classic. Just watch it with that explanation in mind. It makes it more plausible.

      Maybe what the mathematician did was crack a gigantic outstanding problem in scaling quantum computers that allowed e.g. extraordinarily effective quantum noise reduction at scale.

      • nailera day ago
        I do the same thing with Prometheus - I watch the Weyland TED Talk before the film and view the film as a man that considers himself a god trying to meet god.
        • apia day ago
          That movie was so weird. It had flashes of brilliance but also a really dumb "idiot ball" plot in a lot of ways. Astronauts would never be as stupid as they're depicted in that film, things like "oh gee I think I'll take my helmet off around all this potential biohazard."

          It also doesn't really work in the Alien universe at all. It would have been much better had it been set in an entirely different 'verse, maybe even its own things.

          IMHO the Alien canon should be: Alien, Alien Romulus, and Aliens, in that order (since Romulus is in fact supposed to occur between those other two in-world). Maybe the sequel to Romulus (and Aliens) could be an updated adaptation of the William Gibson script that begins when Rain reaches the "non-Weyland colony" (which would kinda fit with Gibson's script).

          My opinion on Interstellar is similar. It had brilliant moments (and visuals!) but overall I didn't like it. I couldn't get past things like: okay, so we are in a kind of semi post-collapse world apparently run by milquetoast descendants of the Heritage Foundation. Where exactly did they get a starship? Did they just have, like, a warp drive sitting around up on concrete blocks in someone's lawn? What? Also they had to lift off from Earth with chemical rockets, but somehow they're able to lift off from much larger planets later without thinking about delta-V budget at all. Sorry but if you're gonna say it's hard sci-fi it's gotta at least try to know something about physics and have coherent world building.

          Yes I'm a sci-fi geek.

          • nailer13 hours ago
            Yes re: cute snake scene, those same scientists are depicted as being super conservative in prior scenes as well.

            Likewise, the Weird running away from the rolling circle by running forwards into the future path of the circle.

            Both of these things are frequently fixed by fan edits.

          • tillinghasta day ago
            > Astronauts would never be as stupid as they're depicted in that film, things like "oh gee I think I'll take my helmet off around all this potential biohazard."

            My head-canon explanation for this is that a good portion of the crew specifically were not astronauts -- they were experts in their field (geology, anthropology, etc.). And true-to-form, they were dismissive of other experts telling them NO, NO DO NOT REMOVE YOUR HELMET. And once the first few were exposed the others decided well, if there's a problem with it we're already screwed anyway.

  • polycastera day ago
    I’m sorry, but could someone please elaborate on the significance of this post?
    • BLKNSLVRa day ago
      Sneakers is a very popular movie in the HN community. It's a great movie, well written, well cast, well acted, suspenseful, interesting, funny.

      It beautifully captures the golden age.

      • happycubea day ago
        BTW the writers also previously wrote WarGames, and you can see a lot of the same fingerprints...
    • toomuchtodoa day ago
      Hacker culture.
    • a day ago
      undefined
  • VilleSalonen2 days ago
    The link points to a Full HD Blu-ray review. Here is the review for the highest quality 4K Blu-ray review: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Sneakers-4K-Blu-ray/343185/
  • aaron695a day ago
    [dead]
  • pragmatick2 days ago
    What's the relevance of this?
    • mortariona day ago
      The best movie about physical pentesting and grayhat hacking in general.
      • geerlingguya day ago
        It was the previous generation's "Mr. Robot"
        • sgta day ago
          In a movie format, like they used to. Not a series that keeps on going... seemingly never ending.
          • binka day ago
            And no real questions about the reliability of the narrator.
      • somata day ago
        That first phone trunk scene in particular stands out as one of the finest hacking scenes in cinema.
    • duxupa day ago
      Sneakers is a popular show with folks interested in tech.

      If you haven't seen it I think it is worth a try. Great cast, from that exciting age of computers when everything felt like it was just on the edge of possible.

      Even for folks not of that time, the cast and script are so good it's worth a watch.

    • inanutshellusa day ago
      hacker movie news on hacker news. seems pretty straight-forward...
    • Minor49era day ago
      It appears to be a subtle announcement that the film has been restored and will be rereleased on Blu-Ray soon
  • aa-jv2 days ago
    I never understood the love for this movie, it just seems lame to see all of these caricatures being created that reinforce hacker stereotypes - and not even in a good way.
    • glimshe2 days ago
      The movie was partially responsible for creating the stereotype. This was 1992 and hacker culture wasn't yet mainstream.
      • aa-jv2 days ago
        Hacker culture was quite mainstream in the 80's, already. This was a refactoring of it. War Games and Tron and other movies got there first.

        I think that's the reason I don't have the affinity for this movie that many do - it created incorrect stereotypes which still persist today.

        • glimshea day ago
          The movies you mentioned were far from any type of hacker culture. They were much more about the power of computers, then a mysterious machine people knew little about.
          • aa-jv14 hours ago
            War Games is literally about a hacker.

            Tron is literally about a hacker.

            Sneakers is about spooks wanting to be hackers and hackers wanting to be spooks.

            Sneakers is the point where the militarization of hackers became mainstream.

        • digger495a day ago
          _incorrect_ stereotypes?

          Stereotyping isn't inherently bad, it's just lazy. That having been said, I think Sneakers gets them all correct.

        • duxupa day ago
          I feel like those films were sort of "along side" the hacker world. Sneakers to me was more on point.
    • throw7a day ago
      Do you love the movie Hackers? I submit there are two camps of moviegoing nerds: those who love Sneakers and those who love Hackers. I will admit though, many many years later I softened to the sheer goofness of Hackers (which offput me much initially).
      • BLKNSLVRa day ago
        I love both, for similar but different reasons. Hackers captures the naive idea of the scene really quite well. It's goofiness allows the naivety to remain, past the overwrought characters and Hollywood's downright misunderstanding.

        It feels like it's accidentally great.

        But then again, maybe it just tickles to the surface the sense of wonder I had way back then.

        • cestith2 hours ago
          It helps to know that the swirly equations on the screen were meant to be the director’s interpretation of the characters’ internal mental model of what they were seeing and not some magical UI trick on the computers of the time. The wall-attached phones near the end didn’t suddenly become spinning glass phonebooths either, but you’ll seldom hear the movie bashed for the lack of realism there.
        • myself248a day ago
          Accidentally great, yeah. If I allow myself to believe that the producers of Hackers knew they were making a spoof of Hollywood hackers in general, I can sit back and enjoy it as a masterpiece.

          But at the time, that was not at all clear. And I'm still not actually convinced. It certainly wasn't marketed as a comedy; it seemed to be drinking the same drama-aid as The Net and other breathless wankery at the time. In which case it's a terrible movie that only becomes watchable as an exhibit of wankery.

          This feels like a special case of "suspension of disbelief".

          • aaronbaugheran hour ago
            I saw it when it came out, and the love for it was completely unironic. Yeah, "The Plague" and the skateboards and that were silly, but somehow we still bought it. Not that we thought it was accurate, of course, but that it was heightened reality, maybe.

            I still say things like "We're in" every time I login to a system with people looking over my shoulder.

          • binka day ago
            It's really hard to believe that anyone took "The Plague" seriously as a character.
            • myself248a day ago
              You haven't watched movies with my grandma.

              Edit to add: Now consider the age and tech-savvy of most lawmakers.

          • nullca day ago
            I really disliked hackers when it came out, except for the sound track. Never saw it again until some twentieth anniversary watch party, and from that distance saw it for what it was and found it amusing. ... I still wouldn't call it a great movie, but enjoyable enough or at least I now get why people like it.

            Certainly far better than The Net, as low of a bar as that is.

            • icedchai19 hours ago
              Hackers had more of a cheesy feel to it, for sure. Sneakers felt more serious and believable.
              • BLKNSLVR18 hours ago
                This comment is one of the best examples of understatement I've ever come across.

                (This is a compliment by the way. I agree, but with at least 10x more force than I feel from your comment ;)).

                • icedchai9 hours ago
                  Haha. Thanks. I enjoyed both those movies
      • icedchai19 hours ago
        I enjoyed both of them. Also, War Games... That was the reason I wanted a modem in the first place.
    • duxupa day ago
      Compared to stereotypes I thought it was an interesting mishmash of lively / different characters.