65 pointsby chistev2 days ago25 comments
  • ChrisMarshallNY2 days ago
    I get the feeling that this person is fairly young.

    I'm 62, and have been through a fair amount. I lost both my parents, many years ago, and many friends, acquaintances, frenemies, enemies, coworkers, bosses, etc., along the way. In the 1990s, a fair number of folks in my immediate circle died of AIDS. That's a bad way to go. In the last 35 years or so, I have seen numerous folks die of cancer. That's not even mentioning the ones that died from overdoses, suicides, and other violent means.

    I travel in eclectic circles.

    Once we have some gray in our coiffures, we have generally endured a fair bit of loss.

    For some folks, this pain is unbearable, and they deal with it by rejecting intimate relationships, or by becoming hard-boiled and cynical.

    I have been greatly helped, along the way, by folks that have fallen by the wayside. Sometimes, by death, other times, just because we grew apart, for one reason or another.

    I have also had the signal Honor to help many others. They haven't always been grateful. There's a cynical Mark Twain quote that goes: "If you take a starving dog, and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man."

    Engaging with others, is difficult. It requires self-reflection, compromise, humility, and forgiveness (both of others, and of ourselves).

    In my experience, it has been well worth it.

    Satisfied customer. Would recommend to others.

    WFM. YMMV.

    • roenxi2 days ago
      I'd add in that, over the course of a life, we'd expect maybe about half the people we personally meet to die before us. Everyone dies, and that makes for some relatively sombre statistical realities. If you are meeting a lot of people, there isn't time to stop and get worked up when you know people who are experiencing grief from a death once removed - there are going to be a lot of deaths.
    • keybored2 days ago
      These short personal blogs make some absolute statement about Existence and how Things Are in order to get across the point that they are not in that great of a space right now.

      > Life is cruel. Life is sad. Life is lonely. Sometimes, at home, I just feel like crying.

      The point is not to make serious rational argument that we are alone or that being alone is how to live. For us to then counter-argue as if they were seriously adopting this attitude as a conscious life strategy while of a sound-and-stable mind.

      So I can’t discern whether your response is tone-deaf or if you’re just doing the usual HN CV hustling, but literal CV this time.

      • ChrisMarshallNY2 days ago
        Nah. Just fishing for the typical HN veiled insult.

        Thanks. Much appreciated.

        • keybored2 days ago
          It’s not just about you. The submitter is likely to be the OP given their history.

          “Life is meaningless.” (Unrelated example to illustrate the point.) This means different things depending the context, like if the person was depressed or if they were a professional philosopher.

          • Which is kind of why I didn't actually address their points, and simply added my own experience, from what their post brought up in me, without trying to analyze them (besides that they are young). Their grief, and their anxiety, are not really something that I can realistically appreciate, and I doubt there's much I could say, that would make anything better. I do appreciate their sharing vulnerably, and have no intentions of exacerbating their personal pain.

            Figuring people out, from extremely small sample sizes, is a skill that I sometimes think that I have, but, in reality, completely lack.

  • andyjohnson02 days ago
    I disagree with the title. If all you have in the world is yourself then you may well not make it over the long term. You could get lucky and have an easy life, but its rarely like that.

    I guess I'm older than the author or their bereaved colleague. I lost one parent thirty yeara ago when I was in my mid twenties, and am now losing the other to dementia. I've lost dear friends along the way. You acquire the scar tissue and you wonder why your only life is like this. But its the people in your life that pull you through, wholly or partly, in whatever state you end-up in. The work ultimately means nothing. Be there for your people.

    • bravetraveler2 days ago
      > I disagree with the title. If all you have in the world is yourself then you may well not make it over the long term.

      Absolutely none of us do. I'm in my mid 30s, have been without both parents for at least the better part of a decade.

      What pulled me through? Me. Not to discount what you say, just offer perspective. Several good people have crossed my path, more were worse. Nobody sticks around forever, nor their lessons. Cherish them while you can.

      • makeitdouble2 days ago
        It depends on what you expect from your surroundings, but I'd say having people around that don't give you slack for being in a bad spot and just keep moving on until you're out of it can be a big deal.

        Sure you could be blessed by super supportive, extremely affectionate and compassionate friends all around. But IMHO even having people to keep you in a routine when you'd just want to fall apart can save you from depression.

        I think a lot of people are pretty helpful without being overboard or too obvious about their empathy for other people.

        • netcan2 days ago
          The finer points of "expectation" can be the source of trouble.

          We form these expectations quite young, and often clouded by love at critical points. Familial, romantic and platonic. Love makes us promises that it cannot keep. Ideals we will not live up to.

          There is a type of loner sentiment that grows from integrity, and the sharpness of the pain love betrays us.

        • bravetraveler2 days ago
          Definitely. The thing I'm really stressing is our role as the regulator, or sometimes as you mention (RE: depression), jailer
    • InsideOutSanta2 days ago
      I'm not entirely sure why that is the article's title, since it seems to be about the fact that your coworkers are not your friends, and your work is not your life. Which is true. But maybe I'm missing something.
      • itsoktocry2 days ago
        >since it seems to be about the fact that your coworkers are not your friends, and your work is not your life.

        That's not the message. Even with close friends, what you experience versus the grieving person are miles apart. When a friend's parent dies, I show sympathy and provide support, but my life goes on as usual. For the griever it's the centre of everything.

      • js82 days ago
        Isn't "your coworkers are not your friends, and your work is not your life" kind of depressing, capitalism-realistic, take? I don't see why we couldn't live in a world where coworkers are our friends and work is our life. (My father was a university professor during communist Czechoslovakia, and his life was this kind of way, so it's certainly possible.)
        • itsoktocry2 days ago
          >I don't see why we couldn't live in a world where coworkers are our friends and work is our life.

          They aren't your friends by default, but nothing says they can't be your friend. In fact, many of my best friends in life are/were coworkers.

        • InsideOutSanta2 days ago
          "Isn't "your coworkers are not your friends, and your work is not your life" kind of depressing, capitalism-realistic, take?"

          To me, it's just healthy countermessaging to the "we're all a big family" message that corporations tend to send out. We're all a big family... as long as that message helps you identify with the corporation you work for, and makes you behave as if you had an actual stake in the company. As soon as you are no longer useful to the company, though, you're gone. It's a one-way relationship.

          Most of the "friends" you make at work are friends of convenience. They're friends merely because you spend a lot of time together. It's a backwards relationship. In a healthy friendship, you find people you like, then you decide to spend time together. In a "work friendship", you are forced to spend time together, so you decide that you're friends.

          Sometimes it works out, because you also actually like each other, but most of the friendships you make at work will stop being friendships when you no longer work together. In my opinion, it's emotionally unhealthy to confuse "work friendship" with real friendship, where people actually care for you, and when your dad dies, don't just immediately go back to normal after posting condolences on Microsoft Teams.

  • pelagicAustral2 days ago
    It's such an odd feeling being alone with your grief. Most of the time there are others who feel just as bad, if not worse than how you feel, but they may not be anywhere close to you, so at least you can bond in that way...

    Just a tad over a year now, I lost my dearest friend. I work so far away that I could not even attend the funeral. I was demolished, maybe I still am; I just don't talk too much about it. There was nobody around me that would even know him; it was just me.

    Soon enough, while drowning in despair, I realized the last time we spent time together was February 2023. I had lost a connecting flight, so I called him around 9 AM. He was out of town, in the countryside with his partner, just enjoying a day out of the city. He couldn't believe I missed the flight, joked for a bit, and gave me instructions on how to get to where he was from the airport, about a 6-hour trip.

    I got there, and this place was the closest thing to heaven. I had an amazing weekend (missed the flight early Saturday), and then on Monday we all went back to the city... Because of the nature of the flight, I was going to have to wait until next Saturday to take the flight again. And so we spent that whole week together, just going out for beers and joking around just as we always did... And that was the last week we had together. I know there are a lot of atheists in this community, and that's OK, but in my head, forever, I will always thank God for that week, that so many other people did not have.

    • zelphirkalt2 days ago
      Professional help is often stigmatized, but I think completely appropriate, if you want to reach for it. I am not trying to tell you what to do, nor make any statement about whether it would or would not help you personally to deal with the loss. I merely want to state, that no one should feel bad about reaching out to professional help in these kind of situations.
      • jonasdegendt2 days ago
        This is good advice. And don't let your first experience(s) write off professional help. "Shop" around if you have to, it took me a while to find a psychologist that I felt I was clicking with.
  • mapcars2 days ago
    > That girl is probably at home, grieving deeply for the loss of her father, while at the same time, people are on WhatsApp or in their units, discussing their 'call schedules.' Isn’t that heartbreaking?

    No, its not? People did a great effort of ignoring mortality and then get surprised by the most real thing of everything we know. Death happens and you can use it as a powerful tool to get wiser and realise the life is for the living, your grief and your sadness is only for you. In my eyes you are just losing time doing that instead of being happy and joyful.

  • 01jonny012 days ago
    You cannot ask the question: "Is life just about going to school, getting your degree, getting a job, then getting married so you can have children who will then continue the process after you are gone?" IF you do not have children. The feeling of having children cannot be conveyed in words, it's something you have to do in order to understand and once you do have children, yes you realise that this is what your life's word has been building up to. The greatest gift we can give is life back into the world. I am grateful that we can do that in the modern world with a minimised risk of dying in childbirth or your child dying as an infant.
    • zelphirkalt2 days ago
      You can ask any question you want. Everyone is going to have a different basis of life experiences and social environment from which to draw answers from. Just to throw some shade onto your very rose tinted glasses picture: https://old.reddit.com/r/regretfulparents/ Time to accept, that not everyone needs to be a parent or will enjoy being a parent. Sure, many do, otherwise the species would go extinct. Actually maybe even too many do, if we look at usage of natural resources on planet Earth. But definitely not all have to and everyone should damn stop trying to pressure others into taking this step.
      • 01jonny012 days ago
        You can ask the question, but its like trying to fit a storm in a tea cup or describe the what a steak tastes like to a person who has never eaten meat. The fact of the matter is the (Western) world is becoming more selfish as we immerse ourselves in technology and hyper convenience. I've read that reddit board before, you can quite literally sum up everyone's problems as being too selfish. If you think about others and SACRIFICE then you no longer dwell on your own problems. BTW it's intellectually dishonest to talk about population and usage of natural resources and not talk about demographics. Nearly every native Western population is in decline, this is an existential issue for Western civilisation.
        • zelphirkalt2 days ago
          Not everyone subscribes to the believe of needing to sacrifice their own lifetime, when they have have no interest in having children. It is fine, if you personally do. Just stop trying to push that as the single truth onto other people. What is stopping you from simply keeping your opinions addressing yourself, instead of trying to make them into over-generalized views to be pushed onto others? You could say: "For me it was the right decision to do X." and it would be fine. Accept, that others are different.
          • 01jonny01a day ago
            You are right. I am projecting, but there is a reason why I am. I really don't want anyone to miss out on the opportunity, it's fricking hard but its the most worthwhile thing most people can ever do. We've been led to believe that having kids takes away from you, that's BS. Anyway I seem to have touched a nerve, I sense some cognitive dissonance within you. On a primal level you know it makes sense, on a thinking level you are conflicting. Follow your natural instinct it's been engineered by nature to ensure our survival.
  • hemanthshenoy2 days ago
    That's mostly because people can't "afford" to get involved. They don't have the mental bandwidth or time to handle another person's burdens for longer than a few moments. How many times have you seen a sad post, ad, or article about some starving animals or unfortunate people, felt bad, but scrolled on like nothing happened? We see devastating loss of life and forget about it 5 minutes and a cat video later. That means we can't help or are too preoccupied with other priorities. That's just how the world is—people don't have the luxury of taking on others' sorrows. They have their own baggage to carry.
    • worldsayshi2 days ago
      We have a lot more compartmentalized connections today than in the past. It's not surprising that those people will not "have time" for your grief. But in the past people had most of their lives connected to a fewer number of people. In that context it is more natural to take time for those people. In a smaller world your work friends know your dad so they can share your grief.
  • sgu9992 days ago
    > Over the next couple of days, we sent condolence messages through our internship WhatsApp group chat or privately to her, or both. But here's the truly sad part—after those two days, it was business as usual.

    I lost my father a couple years ago over the span of a day, too. I was on the receiving end of this. The sad reality is that the people I'd have expected the most from didn't even bother with a heartful message. And others revealed themselves as being the most empathetic and kind. It takes that experience to learn to spot the ones who actually deserve your friendship, I guess.

    The other sad reality is that aside from the deeply selfish and unkind, we will all go through grief and have to deal with it. Being supportive of others when they do is crucial, but we don't have to feel as much pain as them to achieve that.

  • makeitdouble2 days ago
    > I'm just merely stating an observation that people quickly move on, leaving you alone with your grief.

    It might be cultural, but for many it wouldn't be helping to be left dwelling in grief alone by themselves. Pushing them to get to work and get back on their usual routine is not usually a bad thing, it depends on the people and their environment of course (e.g. I'd assuming their work isn't abusive and their coworkers are considerate)

    For those who really need it, getting left alone can also be a blessing...I'd think those one will push through to get weeks off and do what they need to get over it, but it's pretty hard to generalize.

  • moribvndvsa day ago
    Every life owes a debt that can only be paid in death, and suffering, pain, and a whole slew of other things go along with that. If you’re lucky, you get a minimal amount of the bad stuff before you pay your dues. Even if we could somehow observe or atone hard enough to equalize every tragedy, we’d effectively freeze time handling the endless torrent of loss, grief, injustice, and so forth. Let go or be dragged.

    I think it’s actually a remarkable and wondrous thing that it’s possible to get along with life– even thrive- after tragedy strikes, which if you live long and full enough becomes unavoidable and in fact frequent. Toxic or fucked up relationships aside, the best service you can do for someone you left behind is live a full life with gratitude and without callousness.

    All we have in the world is the living; abandoning it for the dead is its own sort of absurdity.

  • mannycalavera422 days ago
    I feel I'm uneducated and unprepared to face grief. Grief should be taught and discussed openly

    It's incredible how we managed to extend our life expectancy: still, it's not infinite.

    • GoToRO2 days ago
      Most (all?) cultures have specific rituals for grief. As communities were "phased out", those rituals also got lost.
  • ChrisMarshallNY2 days ago
    There's an author, named Tim Lawrence, who has written some very good stuff about grief.

    I won't link, because there's a whole bunch of others, with the same name, and his original blog has gone dead, so I'm not sure where he's at, these days. My wife recently sent me some stuff he wrote, but I don't think it's on the Web, so I don't want to be a copyright abuser.

  • Asymo2 days ago
    I think there's been some confusion in people's minds between vocation and profession. Your profession is not the same as your vocation. Profession is the means by which you earn your bread by the sweat of your brow. Vocation is an activity you should develop because you are capable of it, and no one else is capable of doing it under your circumstances.

    Of course, by chance, it may happen that in your profession you can fulfill your vocation, but that's merely a coincidence.

    Allow me to discern the author's vocation in the situation described. The author showed himself to be the only one able to empathize in the moment of his colleague's suffering. He could have turned his sensitivity into strength and made his colleague's life better by helping her in her time of mourning. I believe that would have given much more meaning to his life than the modus operandi of his work routine. Sensitivity was his vocation, not his routine at the pharmacy.

  • bezier-curve2 days ago
    The sheer volume of social information we process daily through social media might be straining our emotional machinery beyond the abilities we evolved with [1]. If someone is going through a loss, I try to make their lives a little easier. I feel like our constant growth-based economic society with income inequality issues has poisoned our ability to empathize with coworkers because of competition, and speaking only for myself personally, I would like to rein in these traits of my nature. Be the change you want to see in the world, it doesn't have to be solely about yourself.

    [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26189988/

  • greybox2 days ago
    You need to be strong to withstand what life throws at you, nobody is going to do that for you. But that doesn't mean that you have to experience these things alone. It's sad and not normal (outside of the US at least) that a friend & colleague goes through something like that and nobody reaches out and people forget.
  • shaganer2 days ago
    I've thought about this for so many hours over the course of months and likely years. Even as a mere college student, I know when it comes down to it, I can only hold onto myself. I've lost countless friends, acquaintances, and good people to just the way of life, or by being a panicky anxious lonely version of myself. Whenever I start to think someone great will stick around, they leave. I don't pay enough attention to the ones who have stayed, who are always there for me. It goes against my inner desires to be selfish and care more for nyself, but ultimately, it's something I've had to recently come to terms with. I have to make sacrifices for my survival. For me it was a diagnosis, for you it could be loss, rejection, depression, disillusionment, anything powerful enough. I'm very introspective now. I gotta stop or else it'll get as deep as an abyss.
  • buginprod2 days ago
    We cant stop! Modern civilization isnt designed that way. The griever stops but the whole team doesn't. The flipside is we have less death than the middle ages because of the technology we have created. Nonetheless no one is immortal. Death is part of the game, without it life would not be possible. (A universe where life is immortal would not have sufficient antifragility to have the evolutionary pressures to make human experience)
    • Sebb7672 days ago
      On the other hand, what is the reasonable way of action here? A whole set of acquaintances grieving for days about a person only one of them knew? Next to this being quite detrimental to productivity (and you can argue all day about how bad we have it in this society), it would just lead to us being in a mostly permanent state of grieve, as there will always be someone that had some shocking event in recent times, for any reasonably large set of people.
  • worldsayshi2 days ago
    This disconnectedness is a consequence of how the modern world is structured. In the world we evolved for things would happen very differently. In a tribal society most of the people you engage with every day probably know your father and can share your grief.

    I think this pattern happens in many parts of our life. We compartmentalize to the point where we know most of the people we interact with to a very small degree.

  • angilr2 days ago
    You are lucky because you really like something and know that you like it. So just enjoy it and have time for yourself and your family. I hope I know what I really like to spend my time for it without regretting like you.

    Sometimes you may feel sad, but don't cry because you're lonely. We need that loneliness to grow up.

  • indigo00862 days ago
    This person has the privilege to espouse nihilist doomer philosophy like this.
  • boiler_up8002 days ago
    The best part of the world is actually each other.
  • kypro2 days ago
    I actively avoid friendships or getting too close to people or animals because loss is too hard. When you love lots of people and animals you're sad all the time because you're always losing and missing someone.

    I'm a bit happier now I'm more alone, but I wish life wasn't like this. Why was I made to love so much if I must eventually lose everyone I love?

    I struggle to understand how everyone isn't constantly feeling overwhelmed with grief to be honest.

    • init2null2 days ago
      You will always hurt sometimes. Either it's the pain of disconnection, or it's the pain of loss. The former is subtle and easy to ignore, but it's always there. At least it certainly was for me.

      I've now simply decided to look pain in the eye and embrace it. It is inevitable and important in forming relationships. At least you have mostly fond memories to look back on at the end of it.

      • kypro17 hours ago
        > At least you have mostly fond memories to look back on at the end of it.

        This is the worst bit for me. I've never been able to look back without extreme pain. I always wish I did or said something different. Or just that I had more time or was more appreciative in the moment.

        Trying to live in the moment works better for me. I try to make the most of now and keep change to a minimum so there's not too much to worry about losing and there isn't too much to miss.

        I think your approach is more healthy, I just don't seem to be able to do it. I think it's something to with ASD. I seem to get very attached to people, animals, places and times. I hate change, especially when it's preeminent and out of my control.

    • sva_2 days ago
      You kinda accept life for what it is. People come and go, and nothing is permanent against time. Except perhaps concepts and ideas, things that aren't physical.

      The thought of being unable to make deep connections seems sad and pessimistic to me. Focus on the good parts.

  • 2 days ago
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  • yawpitch2 days ago
    … all too often, we don’t even have that.
  • 2 days ago
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  • llm_trw2 days ago
    >Isn’t that heartbreaking?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landscape_with_the_Fall_of_Ica...

    The world is full of heart break. Every second two people die somewhere. You can either stop functioning and join them or accept the world for being flawed and grow up.

    • andyjohnson02 days ago
      I was with you until "grow up". Unnecessary.
      • llm_trw2 days ago
        Very necessary.

        We have two generations of child-adults who are completely unprepared for the world and need everything covered in emotional bubble wrap to function.

        Kids born after 1980 have been coddled so much they have no emotional resilience to speak of. This article is a good example.

        Things aren't getting better.