26 pointsby robin_realaan hour ago17 comments
  • gensym33 minutes ago
    I've yet to see anyone with expertise in medical research express optimism that AI will cure major diseases like cancer in the next several years. Help us in parts of the research? Sure. But the bottlenecks to medical research are the speed at which the human body does things, and AI isn't going to move that.

    That also aligns with my (non-medical-expert) intuition.

    Dario et al are smart enough to know that as well, and they have not presented any compelling counterargument to the speed of biology, which makes me they that they are full of shit and know it.

    • lab1414 minutes ago
      I remember 5 years ago when you couldn't find any programmer that would agree that AI would replace them. Fast forward to today and most programmers haven't opened an IDE in a year or so and hiring freezes all over the place.

      I'm not saying both cases are equivalent, but A LOT can change in 10 years, specially since the acceleration is compounding over time.

      Today we're using the absolute worst models that we're going to use in the next 10 years.

    • onlyrealcuzzo19 minutes ago
      > I've yet to see anyone with expertise in medical research express optimism that AI will cure major diseases like cancer in the next several years.

      Depending on "several years" -> it is almost by definition impossible. The trial periods are too long.

      A lot of major breakthroughs have happened recently and are already in the pipeline, looking promising.

      There's a lot of progress on this stuff already. Compared to 10-20-30 years ago, a lot of diseases already look "cured", even if they aren't completely.

      Near immediate death sentences have become 5-10+ years of life expectations, etc.

      I don't see any reason why AI wouldn't help speed things up in the future.

      But we won't see any of that for "several years" regardless.

    • Ungh9 minutes ago
      My daughter is an expert on the novel non-invasive diagnostic methods side. She states that the bottleneck is that most diagnostic methods and treatments don’t work. And that’s because we have an incomplete understanding of the human body. AI make some small gains but most of the work is a lot of slow, laborious experimentation and measurement which can’t be automated in any reasonable way.

      Amodei says whatever keeps the money rolling in.

    • qoez26 minutes ago
      I kinda agree with you. One counter argument I could imagine though is that we make really rapid progress in figuring out low level biology in a first principles predictive way that might make us able to zero in on a solution directly.
      • amelius14 minutes ago
        We need much better ways to obtain data. Right now an Apple watch cant even read respiratory rate.
      • gensym23 minutes ago
        I mean, that's the counterargument, I guess. If we accept that AI may become an all-knowing god[1], then we can expect it to do anything.

        But if that's Dario's argument, he should be making it see how well investors take to the "I believe I'm leading an organization in building a god" approach.

        [1] I think that's a fair word for something that can simulate the workings of the physical world from first principles

    • 0o7774 minutes ago
      >I've yet to see anyone with expertise in medical research express optimism that AI will cure major diseases like cancer in the next several years

      It's crazy how AI has completely reversed who is technology optimistic and who is not.

      A 60-year-old immigrant medical researcher thinks we live in the most exciting time in history and that all major diseases will be cured within a decade.

      A 29-year-old American zillennial genderfluid medical researcher thinks Dario and Sam Altman are demonic creatures, worse than the devil himself.

      How did this happen?

    • jstummbillig14 minutes ago
      > I've yet to see anyone with expertise in medical research

      I mean... that's literally Amodei. But anywho.

      We just went through this with coding: We are setting up a silly strawman, that will be goal posted to the end of the world. I am relatively certain Amodei does not literally mean "Will you flip AI on, go to sleep, and get a "cancer" pill at your door some day x in the future, all just AI?". Yes, it will involve humans.

      It's what AI enables, in combination what exists. This might also include changes in regulation (which to me seems like the bottleneck, much more so than speed of the human body).

    • antonvs23 minutes ago
      > Dario et al are smart enough to know that as well

      Maybe, or maybe someone needs to send him this comic:

      https://phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1162

      • credit_guy8 minutes ago
        Actually that comic strenghtens the case for AI. AI is able to work on solving one million problems in parallel. Let’s say it only solves 1000 out of 1000000. I’ll take that. Sure, no cure for Cancer, but cures for one thosand types of cancer are still good. Because there is no hard wall saying it’s 1000 and then stop.
      • gensym14 minutes ago
        Thanks for sending that. As someone who's in the stage of life where I've lost several people to cancer and will surely lose more, that comic hit me hard.

        And that makes it more enraging to see the cultists and charlatans running the AI labs using the heartbreak so many people experience because of it as a way to accumulate vast amounts of power.

  • ocius20 minutes ago
    I don't actually think that he's overselling that much. Of course there is no guarantee that all these illnesses will be fixed, but imagine how much more progress can be made if we set up one million automated wetlabs performing research on these sicknesses. I had an agent (irony) estimate that there are around 100k such labs around right now, and these labs are not used around the clock. So 1 Mio automated wetlabs count more like 3 Mio conventional wetlabs. If we now factor in that current models already have much better capabilities to access existing knowledge, and that they may in fact be(come) smarter than the average researcher, that factor increases.
  • aqme2833 minutes ago
    Genuinely curious-- if we eliminate cancer, dementia, and heart disease, what exactly will there be left to die of in old age?
    • robin_reala2 minutes ago
      The climate catastrophe, and the associated conflict and natural disasters.
    • gensym29 minutes ago
      I am curious as well - my mental model is that cellular damage is going to accumulate throughout the body, so if you can keep the heart going, the liver might fail, etc, etc.

      It is worth noting that of the 3 things you listed, none are a single disease. They're all descriptions of a wide range of conditions, and that aligns with my understanding of aging in general: so much stuff goes wrong that rather than describe the individual source, we describe its effects.

      • jvanderbot23 minutes ago
        I'm cautiously optimistic on the limited version of these claims.

        "Cure" probably means "If we find it quickly enough we can eliminate it", but after some time, you'll see popup fast moving cancers everywhere. Curing certain kinds of cancer would be a nobel winning prize, but it doesn't eliminate all cancers, either.

        Cardiovascular disease like athlerosclerois have been proposed as being curable.

        I suspect "dementia/alzheimers" is like cancer - many separate kinds/issues, and we'll eliminate some but not all.

    • Maken16 minutes ago
      Total organ failure. Even if you can cure any individual illness, eventually your body would accumulate enough imperfections due to cellular replication that a unstoppable collapse becomes more and more likely.
    • mrieck14 minutes ago
      I don't see why anyone would focus on those diseases instead of curing old age. If you don't get old, you don't get any of those diseases.
    • patall21 minutes ago
      Probably really just brain decline, if you can grow new cells and organs without having to care about cancer. And even there, technology may be able to replace senescent cells at some point. But nobody really knows as even (multicellular, animal) model organisms cannot be kept alive forever today.
      • uptrails17 minutes ago
        > Probably really just brain decline

        So, dementia?

    • victorbjorklund17 minutes ago
      Lots of things in the body just stops function correctly at some point. Some old people today just die peacefully in their sleep without it being cancer or heart dicease.
      • qgin13 minutes ago
        Those are almost all heart failure or heart attack
    • kashunstva26 minutes ago
      > what exactly will there be left to die of in old age?

      Claude will cure old age too, of course.

    • manmal30 minutes ago
      Eventually, fatal injuries get everyone. I read a stat years ago that it can take 500 years.
      • patall20 minutes ago
        But that is not dying of old age.
    • smoe26 minutes ago
      Once you turn 160, Claude will have you sent to the Near-Death Star.
    • vlyan12 minutes ago
      accumulated errors in DNA replication. telomere shortening. whatever other things cause aging.

      we could eliminate all disease, but without solving senescence itself I don't think it's possible to achieve even 200 year lifespans. by 70, even the most blessed of us begin to rapidly fall apart.

      mind upload is far more plausible than fixing the janky meat machines we inhabit.

      • qgin9 minutes ago
        If you eliminate all disease, by definition things aren't falling apart.
    • gizajob26 minutes ago
      Boredom.
  • gnabgib11 minutes ago
    Related: Silicon Valley Promises AI Will Cure Disease. Drugmaker CEOs Aren't Buying It (98 points, 4 days ago, 131 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50415817
  • 11 minutes ago
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  • fridder25 minutes ago
    This makes me very angry because it falls into the popular trope about cancer being a single thing to "cure".
    • ocius17 minutes ago
      While all cancers are different, there are also underlying mechanisms that are similar and thus may enable a common cure. In the most extreme sense, think nano robots that cut out affected cells.
    • abirch15 minutes ago
      Exactly, cancer is phenotypic of many diseases and illnesses. Science has cured some cancers by simple vaccines.
    • vb-844817 minutes ago
      I'd bet that it's intentional: if they manage to find a cure only for a specific type of cancer and condition they can still claim that they succeed.
  • FLeXMurphy14 minutes ago
    I really expected better arguments to be put forth by the community, however that hasn't really happened yet. Across the few HN threads this has popped up, the general stance is:

    "In other fields [coding, math] the experts said Amodei was wrong. He proved to be right. In this field experts are saying Amodei is wrong, therefore he will be proven to be right."

    That's as simple of a summary as I can given without getting into the details, which are irrelevant and devolve into nit-picking regarding specific wording used (can vs. will), who said and what was really said (or was not said), and so on.

    To me, that argument is not good enough. I would like to hear something a bit more step-by-step as to why people think he is right or wrong that's beyond mere "because he said so" takes.

  • sandworm10139 minutes ago
    The actual quote is far worse than the title:

    >> In a 42-minute IPO roadshow video the company released on Tuesday, Amodei made the audacious prediction that "cancer, Alzheimer's, heart disease, mental illness — these will be relics of the past in, I think, less than a decade."

    Mental illness? I'm sure that will be worked out exactly a day after AI-induced psychosis stops being a thing.

    Question: Without heart disease, cancer and Alzheimer's, what will kill us? It cannot all be shark attacks and avalanches. What new horrible diseases will step up to be big killers in the future?

    • 27 minutes ago
      undefined
    • BugsJustFindMe32 minutes ago
      AI-induced psychosis is likely just AI-exposed latent psychosis. In that light the AI could be said to be getting you closer to the cure by revealing the silent disease. You can't treat what you can't see! I'm being semi-serious.
    • brewcejener25 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • shaolinspirit15 minutes ago
    Billionaires leveraging capital to live forever
  • kashunstva27 minutes ago
    > cure cancer

    Which one? All of them? The mechanisms of neoplastic development and growth are protean. If his prediction is based on aspirations of finding a common pathway, I’m afraid it will be unrealized.

    I share his enthusiasm for assisted drug development and so forth; but let’s be realistic. Besides, doesn’t his company have an upcoming IPO? I guess it’s a fine time for unbridled optimism then, isn’t it?

    • misnome24 minutes ago
      I don't think anyone making such claims actually knows what cancer is. I think they think it's just a single thing, like a virus.

      > I guess it’s a fine time for unbridled optimism then, isn’t it?

      To be fair, they've kept up this fairy-tale optimism most of the way through

  • tim-projects32 minutes ago
    Stock market goes up

    ”It's literally too dangerous for us to release"

    Stock market goes down

    "Ai will cure cancer everyone!"

    • estearum27 minutes ago
      Whatever your opinion on whether we're there right now, there is nothing contradictory about this. The entire point of AI is that it is/can be/will be (at the limit) incredibly powerful. That power can be used for good or bad things.
  • gavinh10 minutes ago
    Is "curing cancer" even well-defined? Aren't some cancers driven by bacterial infection? AI is going to cure all current and future causes of cancer?
  • VBprogrammer31 minutes ago
    I wonder how Elizabeth Holmes is doing these days.
    • Maken13 minutes ago
      She's probably blaming bad timing. Theranos nowadays would be just another AI startup.
  • unpleasurable12 minutes ago
    Full Self Cure
  • baggachipz34 minutes ago
    Fill that bag up to the brim before dumping it on public investors. Looks like everyone's adopting the Elon Prediction Model.
  • phillennium29 minutes ago
    Here's a more correct title:

    "One person (who doesn't know the future but has a financial incentive to promise golden age) promises golden age.

    Other people (who also don't know the future but don't want to lose their jobs) predict that they won't lose their jobs.

    Both sides can be utterly wrong, so we spend our time in vain here".

  • vivzkestrel31 minutes ago
    wake me up when it can cure death
    • shaolinspirit14 minutes ago
      just one more agent orchestration framework and I'm sure it would...
    • hkt21 minutes ago
      .. are you saying this from your tomb?