54 pointsby digital55an hour ago11 comments
  • dozerlyan hour ago
    It’s driving everyone away. No demographic is better off, other than obscenely rich people, under this administration. We have effectively killed what the brain “gain” we’ve been benefitting from for decades.
    • CGMthrowaway41 minutes ago
      >It’s driving everyone away.

      Then why are millions moving to the US every year?

      • vaylian32 minutes ago
        It's a strong downward trend:

        > In 2025, only 2.6 million people immigrated to the United States, a sharp decline from the 5.8 million who entered in 2023 and the 4.6 million who entered in 2024.

        source: https://forumtogether.org/article/the-consequences-of-net-ne...

        Yes, there are still people migrating to the USA, but it is a lot less than it used to be.

      • alyeska231 minutes ago
        They're not anymore. See: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/macroeconomic-implication...

        Key finding: "We conclude that net migration was likely close to zero or negative over calendar year 2025 for the first time in at least half a century. For 2026, we project net migration is likely to remain in negative territory."

        • CGMthrowaway24 minutes ago
          That's from Brookings and the data/conclusion is disputed by other sources
      • throwaway2744833 minutes ago
        Money of course. that doesn't mean this is a good place to live let alone do science.

        I personally am still very bullish on living in America compare compared to a lot of places, but it's getting harder to ignore the stresses and costs of living here compared to the money that once made this place worth it

      • p-e-w35 minutes ago
        Because the comment you replied to is wishful thinking and not facts. Highly qualified people are still falling over each other trying to secure US visas, whereas the international press loves to print headlines like “scientists are leaving America in droves”, naming a grand total of three specific scientists who left.

        The world doesn’t operate the way we want it to, and US salaries are head and shoulders above what you can get anywhere else in the world. That’s what people really care about, and not the news cycle surrounding the current administration.

        • badpun16 minutes ago
          Immigrant scientists may be leaving America, because federal funding for some sciences areas have been rather abruptly cut. But, scientists are a small portion of high-skilled migrants.
        • throwaway2744832 minutes ago
          We can't even employ the PhDs we have
      • win311fwg30 minutes ago
        Much the same reason why millions play the lottery each year. There is a chance, however small, that you'll win and join the obscenely rich mentioned earlier.
      • foltik33 minutes ago
        >Global temperatures are rising.

        Then why is it cold outside??

    • CalRobert30 minutes ago
      For all of America's many problems, if you're a 20's-30's high performer, moving to the US can absolutely make sense. Do you want to make $400k a year, have great investment options, and retire at 40, or make €80-100k a year with extremely heavy taxes?

      (Bias disclosure: grew up in norcal, moved to Europe from California in 2013. I like living here but it certainly wasn't great for my career. It's like living in a forgotten backwater. You watch the future being built from abroad.)

    • carlosjobim40 minutes ago
      Are these people better off somewhere else?
      • AnkitGuptaTruth38 minutes ago
        If they aren't why are we so sure they would be so useful here?
      • Zigurd37 minutes ago
        Look at where the US ranks in quality of life measures.
        • bluGill25 minutes ago
          There is no good way to measure quality of life. Honest measures of Norway and the US (picking two "rich countries" at random) will have a lot of "it depends" and error bars and in the end concluding they are statistically equal.

          If your information doesn't have those error bars it is just a feel good headline to make someone feel better about themselves by putting others down - this is EVIL and you shouldn't fall for it!

          • Zigurd16 minutes ago
            There are at least four widely accepted measures of quality of life, and the US ranks at the bottom of the top 10 of one of them. Are you really sure that you're smarter than all the economist and sociologists who put those measures together? Or maybe we've screwed it up and needs to purge a lot of poison from our system.
      • zemoerfi34 minutes ago
        Almost certainly. Quality of life for well educated people is absolutely higher in many parts of the world. Whether you are in parts of Europe, New Zealand, east Asia, you can definitely land in better places.

        The idea that the US is "the best place to live" is a persistent cultural myth. It's mostly good for a lot of classes of people, but even that's changing as of late.

        • bluGill29 minutes ago
          Western Europe and New Zealand are great places to live (east Asia is too big - I had to qualify Europe as well for similar reasons). However the US is also a great place to live. You cannot make any universal statement that one is better than another. There are pros and cons, but for the most part things are similar, and the difference is only slightly different sets of trade offs. In the US you will probably make more income which can lead to better quality of life in the form of things you can buy - but things you can buy isn't everything (and there are people who would make less in the US)
          • zemoerfi24 minutes ago
            The expression "parts of" means "not all of". I didn't want to type out every neighborhood in Japan, Korea, China, etc.
      • Varelion38 minutes ago
        Yeah, from what I understand those that leave are living much better lives. Wive has a Masters in Biotech and is being pulled to European opportunities.
        • carlosjobim24 minutes ago
          Those who are leaving are certainly leaving for better opportunities and better lives. Otherwise they would stay, or at least not be away for long.

          But would everyone except for "obscenely rich people" be better off somewhere else? If so, then where, and why aren't they leaving by the tens of millions for those places?

    • kakacik41 minutes ago
      Its fine, QoL is anyway in many aspects higher in many parts of Europe (no, not salaries but overall quality and happiness definitely, triple that if you have family with kids or ever plan one).

      Maybe smart folks don't want to be in racist xenophobic regime which marks them as undesirables from Day 1, run by publicly voted-in outright senile pedophile who managed to insult every single human being currently living at least once, mostly much more. It happens with narcistic egomaniacs, quite a lot in fact.

      Since folks willingly voted in such person twice as the best person under the sun to represent and rule them, it tells something not-so-nice about future that even many not-too-smart folks catch easily.

      At least that would be my logic if I would be in such situation. I never was since US was never an option for me, Switzerland offers much more for me than US ever could. And my taxes are not used for mass murder and start failed wars half around the globe, a small but significant detail. Most scientists have more morals than typical faaangs of these days from my experience.

      • WarmWash23 minutes ago
        QoL in Europe is better if you are a below average to average earner. Many excellent perks and social benefits to cover things that are usually very expensive.

        QoL in the US is better if you are an average to above earner, and dramatically better if you are are high earner (like SWE's). In large part why the US brain drained so much talent from Europe over the last 30 years.

      • Varelion37 minutes ago
        Objectively correct statement. Flagged. What a joke.
        • SpicyLemonZest30 minutes ago
          If you think that the comment you're responding to is even a tiny bit objective, I'd encourage you to take a break from Internet ragebait. I'm no friend of the Trump regime, but that doesn't mean I have to endorse people posting furious substance-free rants.
          • WarmWash22 minutes ago
            I mean, the rant makes sense if your view of the US comes purely from social media.
    • Varelion39 minutes ago
      It's funny how blatantly clear it is that corruption was engineered by the extreme rich to serve their own interest at the cost of everyone else. And yet, somehow, I still get comments debating that fact -- people actively defending the status quo of this late capitalist hellscape. It's like these idiot want to protect a system of abuse, hoping one day they will be the abuser. It will not ever happen. The game has been rigged against you.
    • dnautics44 minutes ago
      We killed it decades ago with an academic science culture that promotes grantsmanship and politicking for advancement over good science.
      • estearum42 minutes ago
        It's a valid criticism but no, it actually did not "kill" research, as evidenced by the US's extreme concentration and outperformance on any relevant scientific metric per capita.
      • sailfast42 minutes ago
        I don’t think that’s unique to the United States is it? That seems like human nature.
      • gjsman-100041 minutes ago
        ... and a culture that couldn't explain to the public why half of these experiments were worth a single tax dollar.

        If you're barely making ends meet, can barely afford gas, and hear that $390,000 just went to some scientists to stick plastic dinosaur tails on chickens to study walking dynamics, with zero practical applications for the knowledge gained, you're angry. Also this example actually happened, it's not hyperbole.

        • dgellow28 minutes ago
          More like: you were lied to and mislead by bad actors. Aka, the Republican Party and its associated media
          • gjsman-100028 minutes ago
            Malarkey, San Francisco tried to spend $1.7M on a single-stall toilet. There's plenty of blame on both sides, and much of the mud they throw at each other is true.

            Again, if you are someone who can barely afford gas and hear about this... you don't care about strict principles, you just want to set those in power on fire. You're also not going to be easily convinced the government cares about spending your tax dollars wisely, or that all of this planning and research and science is worth it.

        • tbrake19 minutes ago
          You should sell your services as a fortune teller, so bravely confident in asserting the value of every study before it's even conducted.

          "What kind of IDIOT wants to WASTE valuable TAXPAYER MONEY on gila monster venom research" - man currently on a GLP-1.

          • gjsman-100016 minutes ago
            Do you believe then that scientists should have a blank check for any form of science they would like to research? I don't.
  • Schlagbohreran hour ago
    It is driving away mid-career scientists too. France is eagerly recruiting them though and the EU as a whole.

    https://www.cnrs.fr/en/update/choose-cnrs-opportunities-scie...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-026-00405-2

    • petcat41 minutes ago
      EU has much bigger brain drain problems to the US that will not be solved anytime soon. Even just recently Heart Aerospace announced that they were relocating completely to California after several years of warning the EU that the regulatory and economic environment was impossible to navigate for emerging technology companies.

      https://www.heartaerospace.com/newsroom/mastering-the-shift-...

      A month later they moved to USA

      https://www.heartaerospace.com/newsroom/heart-aerospace-relo...

    • hikingsimulatoran hour ago
      The French government may want to invite researchers but it faces budget issues in research and education, and growing social unrest. The French language is also somewhat necessary to live in France. It can be a deterrent.

      Eagerly recruiting doesn't translate to active recruitment imo, unfortunately. With the coming elections, it is even more tenuous.

      • SV_BubbleTime40 minutes ago
        I’m told French schools are particularly bad right now, although I have never seen a reason for why.
        • petcat34 minutes ago
          French schools K-12 and university do not have better education outcomes than New York state, despite having nearly double the taxes. 53% of New York State residents go to a SUNY university for free and the rest pay a maximum of $7,000 a year on average.
          • hikingsimulator29 minutes ago
            French education budget also accounts for teacher pensions. I don't think that's the case for NY. So it's somewhat apples and oranges.
            • petcat24 minutes ago
              New York state pays teacher pensions through the New York State Teacher Retirement System. About $8.5 billion a year, ~$4,000/mo per teacher on average. $7,000/mo+ with 30 years of teaching history. It's also protected under the NY State Constitution.
        • hikingsimulator30 minutes ago
          Large cities like Paris and Lyon have a good budget and amenities. You have to go outside the rich centers to see how schools are being failed. You can't look at Louis Le Grand and tell yourself the situation is fine.
  • tdb789338 minutes ago
    I recently started a program in ecology and the worry I've heard from scientists is that going forward funding is going to be very politically uncertain. It's hard to run a lab when you might just have grants get cancelled capriciously and have funding dry up for years at a time. I know I'm going to be looking outside the US for PhD programs once I finish my master's.

    Four years of this is a huge blow to the field, eight would mean a wipeout of a generation of talent.

  • superxpro1230 minutes ago
    yes, we know. yes, this was an obvious consequence of trumps policies.

    The entire administration has done one thing: sell of all of the US's assets, and convert it into profits for the trump family. thats it. Every action taken since the first 40 executive actions signed, through doge, defunding USAID which murdered over a million children, or bombing Iranian schools, has been to enrich trump and his friends.

    Thats it. It's very simple.

    They traded away every piece of soft power they could find and exchanged it for cash in their pockets.

  • sailfast43 minutes ago
    The past two years is not a good summary of the United States. The policies that led them to leave are clearly wildly unpopular. They will be back.

    While government funding may not grow above previous levels I would posit this is actually a feature - I’d expect to see a better public / private blend that is more resilient.

    • zemoerfi32 minutes ago
      Two years? Try ten. Biden didn't undo political behavior of Trumps first term.
  • ChrisArchitecta minute ago
    Related:

    Top Astrophysicist Leaves U.S. After Trump Policies Affect Her Work

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50414524

  • kittikitti15 minutes ago
    https://www.aip.org/fyi/nsf-adds-dei-and-israel-boycott-rest...

    There's no longer a point in receiving academic training in the United States because no one will trust it. A prospective scientist won't want to define their research by hedging against zionism and fascism. I don't have an extensive publication list but I would rather not publish anything if I have to give Israel and Nazi's a seat at the table for every research project.

  • zhiyanan hour ago
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are driven away equal..."
  • thibsrnan hour ago
    Even though I'm sure it's factually true that there is a decrease in interest from international young researchers to come to the US, articles like this are always a bit dramatic and have a political bias. More problematic are the budget cuts than the decreasing flow of talent from abroad. The country has enough domestic eager brains and the cultural capital to compensate later for this temporary dip.
    • Avshaloman hour ago
      The budget cuts also have a political bias.
      • thibsrn33 minutes ago
        Absolutely, I'm just saying it's better to focus political energy to counter the cuts specifically, to mitigate the damage of the current administration.
    • ModernMech44 minutes ago
      > The country has enough domestic eager brains and the cultural capital to compensate later for this temporary dip.

      No, not really. I mean, we potentially could, but not with the state of education as it is -- the top career goals for US highschoolers are athlete, youtuber, musician, actor... they want fame and fortune. And why shouldn't they, that's what America tells them is important.

      Then, we load those who do go to college with so much debt, graduate education is not financially possible for most of them. Careers in research require higher degrees and a decade of study, it's just not worth it when you have $50k-$100k in debt upon graduating, and a graduate stipend is like $2k a month.

      At my university, we fill our masters and PhD ranks with international students. Even if we admitted 100% of the domestic students who apply each year, we wouldn't have a full cohort. And if we did do that, and they all did attend, the 15 other schools they applied to would fall short.

      • DragonStrength27 minutes ago
        When I started engineering undergrad 20 years ago, they told us domestic students grad school only makes sense if you want to be a professor. Why? They put the numbers up! Opportunity cost!

        Of course, now the goalposts have moved: American talent must be worse because they don’t have these degrees which are required of foreign students to get in the country. And, of course, grad school working conditions are notably terrible. Exploitable labor lowers working conditions.

    • rideontimean hour ago
      Are you sure?
    • miltonlost41 minutes ago
      And these budget cuts you blame are in no way political? The cuts are just naturally occurring and not introduced by Trump or right-wing politicians? Sorry that the truth and reality has a liberal "bias".
      • SV_BubbleTime34 minutes ago
        How many trains of dollars does the country in debt? I’m not sure I care if a cut is political. Cuts have to be made.

        Not actually though, most reasonable people know that the only solution out will be war and massive restructuring.

        • zemoerfi29 minutes ago
          You do care if a cut is political. "We cut farm subsidies because Iowa voted against us" is a political vote. "We cut defense spending because we believe in peace through diplomacy" is a political cut. "We cut disease research because we think vaccines cause autism" is a political cut.
  • ModernMechan hour ago
    We are at the point where AI researchers are worried about having to use the term "super intelligence" and avoiding any use of the prefix "trans-" in their terminology in order to get federal grants. So yeah, I can understand why they wouldn't want to do their research here.

    I was pretty astounded and heartbroken watching my colleagues pass around a list of banned words so they could scrub their proposals. Then again, what options do they have? Either you get money from the government, corporations who have a very narrow idea of what they want to research, or you move to a country that takes research seriously.

    • stevenbedrick29 minutes ago
      It's not just AI researchers worrying about this specific issue! I personally had to revise wording in NIH grant applications, and have many stories from colleagues about awkward phone calls they have gotten from their program officers about this or that word in their project description, or even this or that _column_ in their projects' data products.
    • zemoerfi27 minutes ago
      No idea why you are being downvoted. Everything you said is literally true and a genuine concern for researchers.

      The right was so concerned about what you couldn't say because it maybe damaged your credibility. But what we're having now is that same group doing find and replace cuts on grants that use a laundry list of banned words.

  • Zigurdan hour ago
    [flagged]
    • exe34an hour ago
      [flagged]
      • Zigurdan hour ago
        It was a pretty good high for a while. Which is the logic of crack addicts. It's one thing to blame people for doing things that are venal. But bending the knee to Trump is inexcusable for people who claim to be very smart.
        • fullshark43 minutes ago
          Resistance would have accomplished nothing and these people have no principles. They kept their companies running, enjoyed tremendous benefits for 2-4 years, and will suffer no consequences from it.
          • ModernMech2 minutes ago
            That's not exactly true when you look at the history of how fascism works. Actually, capitulation is futile, as there is no bottom to what the autocrat will demand. If you give in, all it shows is you are an easy mark. Resistance is the only winning move.

            Timothy Snyder put out a great book about this called "On Freedom", which explains most of the power an autocrat has is given freely by people who anticipate what he would want and just offer it without being asked, precisely because they have a notion that resistance is futile. Tech leaders were right there at the inauguration, they didn't even try! So the role these tech guys played early on was teaching Trump the extend of his power.

            If you look at how Trump handled schools and law firms, you see an excellent case of capitulation vs. resistance and how that played out. Take the situation with Columbia compared to Harvard. With Columbia, they capitulated to Trump illegally withheld $400m and agreed to all sorts of demands, only to be met with more demands. Harvard faced similar pressure, but decided to fight it and won in court.

            In the law world, Trump made demands to several high-profile law firms. Paul Weiss, Skadden, and Kirkland & Ellis all capitulated to the demands, other firms saw these law firms capitulate and just offered up settlements themselves. 11 law firms entered into agreements with the administration, and they didn't even have to ask all of them! Meanwhile, every firm that challenged demands made by the Trump admin, including Perkins Coie and Jenner & Block, won in court.

            Tech giants didn't capitulate to the Trump administration because they felt they had no other choice, they did it because they felt it would be best for their bottom line. They have no principles, no backbone, and are opportunists who will say anything if a dollar is on the line.

          • estearum38 minutes ago
            Why not instead of being a defeatist whiner and contributing to the impression that there's no need for justice and consequences, you actually demand justice and consequences? Too much work to call your representatives?

            5calls.org

            Figuring out the right amount of justice-seeking versus forgiveness is the top point of argument right now among the newly elected dominant party.

            You want to toss your vote in the "let's just move on" bucket?

          • Zigurd38 minutes ago
            Are there any Trump suck ups who actually prospered after being discarded? The examples were all there before the second inauguration.