42 pointsby thelifelinean hour ago14 comments
  • danmcr6 minutes ago
    I have a friend who works at a large F100 and in his 12 years as a dev, he has never dreaded his job as he does now.

    He's working 10 hrs. a day, just entering things into Claude, waiting, reviewing, and learning absolutely nothing.

    At this point anyone who was truly passionate about programming, is just less and less motivated to become a better engineer.

    • grey-areaa few seconds ago
      It doesn't have to be this way. LLMs can be quite helpful in analysis and small coding tasks. I understand everyone doesn't control their environment, but surely there are some sane places out there?

      We don't have try to use them as 'agents' to write and understand all the code for us, frankly I wouldn't trust them to do so, they make too many mistakes and foolish decisions about architecture.

  • marginalia_nu27 minutes ago
    If models are getting exponentially cheaper and more powerful, going all in a year ago is kind of insane. There's ostensibly this reverse token value inflation where whatever you spend on AI today, you'll get much more for the same dollar tomorrow (assuming models get cheaper and better). There's really a weird sort of late mover's advantage to just holding off and saving your money unless you expect your profit to grow faster than AI becomes more powerful.
    • throw0101d6 minutes ago
      > There's ostensibly this reverse token value inflation where whatever you spend on AI today, you'll get much more for the same dollar tomorrow

      "reverse token value inflation"?

      Do you perhaps mean "deflation"?

    • NoPicklez18 minutes ago
      You could make this claim right now as well, may as well wait now until the models are cheaper and better later.

      You could say in a years time that going in now was kind of insane.

      • marginalia_nu11 minutes ago
        The sane move in such an environment is to wait and let other people leeroy jenkins in and make mistakes, learn from their blunders, and only move once clear best practices are in place.
        • embedding-shape8 minutes ago
          I dunno, personally I learn best by fucking up myself, even observing others fucking up from afar seems to not nearly have the same impact and knowledge-gaining. I always make sure to learn in low-stakes environments though, not like Facebook's "Move fast, break democracies" approach.
          • marginalia_nu6 minutes ago
            Well you can still fiddle on projects if you feel like it. But like maybe don't bet the entire business on a venture to figure out best practices for AI coding.
    • _kulang22 minutes ago
      Growth and change is so fast that waiting is almost a virtue. Why spend effort getting opus 4.8 to work on my codebase when opus 5.5 will arrive within 8 months anyway? Why spend effort getting opus 5.5 to do anything when opus 6 will arrive in the near future?

      The only things that I do with AI at my job are easy things. AI hasn’t transformed hard work in quite the same way, but it has given me access to knowledge and information about things and processes that I didn’t have before. It also forces me to write things down, which is perhaps a not insignificant amount of the improvement in our business

    • amw-zero10 minutes ago
      But then you won't know how to efficiently use AI, so you'll still end up spending more money when you start using it, nullifying any of the micro-optimization you were trying to do in the first place.
      • gonzalohm4 minutes ago
        Aren't AI companies aiming at a level of AI that would basically be "do this app" and will take care of everything?

        If not, what are they even doing that they keep burning through piles of cash?

      • rogerrogerr9 minutes ago
        I wish "how to efficiently use AI" was a deep subject; it isn't. You point it at problems and they get solved. It's mega boring, and the main reason I'm looking to leave the industry.
        • netrema minute ago
          Overengineering it can also harm performance. When a new model comes out with a different system prompt, custom instructions can become a hindrance.
      • marginalia_nu8 minutes ago
        Why do you have to personally invent how to effectively use AI? You can learn from other people's mistakes, wait for best practices to settle. Be Java.
        • Jarea minute ago
          > Be Java.

          Ok if this is the advice then I'm gonna look for a second opinion first. :)

          More seriously: making any crap with AI is trivial and doesn't need learning. Making something better and more valuable than all the competitors *that have the same tools as you* is more involved, and relies 100% on knowing how to extract unique value from the tools. A part of that comes from your product/industry expertise (acquired before AI, much like your competitors), but unless you're a genius or in a greenfield, what will matter will be the other part where you have trained hard to be a better driver than your competition who just waited and watched a few youtubes.

    • ares62315 minutes ago
      So what you're really saying is to... hodl your tokens?
    • AnimalMuppet8 minutes ago
      It depends on how you read the market - not the AI market, but the one your code is addressing. If it's a growth market with some lock-in, being first matters a fair amount. If you didn't have the people to hand-code it, then you want to code it as soon as you have the (people + money for tokens) that will get it done.

      But if that isn't your competitive landscape...

  • proc026 minutes ago
    Yeah this is what happens when you think code is the product. It's really the understanding and also the design of the software that is the "engine" of value, and the problem is that it's hard to justify spending money to build something that is intangible and might be visible in the future.

    When non-technical people call the shots, they will rarely bet on spending time and effort on designing things properly because they can't see the value and it's hard to communicate and convince others of its business value.

    • austin-cheney18 minutes ago
      Also think about it in terms of start up value. The value of your business is a combination of employee expertise and customer/client relationships. Everything else can be reverse engineered. If all you have is a product written by AI then who cares?
    • marginalia_nu25 minutes ago
      If only we'd tried shipping all the understanding to coding sweatshops in India with identical disastrous results 20 years ago, maybe we would have learned from that.
  • NoPicklez16 minutes ago
    > Except half of us haven't written anything non trivial in a year and it shows. I spent 2 days on something I would have done in an afternoon in 2024.

    This is the part that bugs me with AI usage is that it drives the use of it to benefit the company but not the individual. Yes AI allows me to be faster as work (in theory), but as a result I lose out in my own learning as an employee, I lose out in my own cognitive ability to learn, make mistakes and build upon my knowledge and skills.

    • bdangubic11 minutes ago
      benefiting the company is the whole point, they cut the checks, yes? why would any company give a hoot about yours or mine cognitive ability to learn or your knowledge/skills? if they deteriorate to the point you can’t be productive any longer they will replace you
    • 1011100111 minutes ago
      > This is the part that bugs me with AI usage is that it drives the use of it to benefit the company but not the individual. Yes AI allows me to be faster as work (in theory), but as a result I lose out in my own learning as an employee, I lose out in my own cognitive ability to learn, make mistakes and build upon my knowledge and skills.

      Your well-being and self-improvement is not a priority for your capitalist employer, especially given ideological changes over the past 70 or so years. They would just as rather use you up, throw you away, and replace you with something else, if that was more convenient for them.

      Isn't it wonderful to be on your own? Remember that next time someone talks about starting a union.

    • add-sub-mul-div2 minutes ago
      Engineers adopting this so quickly always looked like useful idiot behavior to me.
  • voidfunc24 minutes ago
    Just do what management wants and take the bag of money. That's all everyone is doing up the chain anyways.
    • happytoexplain10 minutes ago
      Even disregarding the direct arguments that can be made against normalizing this attitude, there isn't a bag of money for most developers. HN is biased to think of the typical smart, hard-working software developer as making enough for a middle-class or upper-middle-class lifestyle, but that hasn't been the case even since before the LLMs of the past couple years. Businesses are offloading more and more and more of the effects of inflation onto employees, rather than sharing the burden. A handful of factors are being used as excuses to accelerate this trend, and AI is one of them.
  • tayo4222 minutes ago
    Pangram said the op post is 100% AI generated.

    It does seem to have ai pacing and ends with a question.

    > The part that actually hurts is who is left.

    That line actually made me suspicious. Op doesn't respond, also has a hidden profile.

    This stuff is all over reddit now.

    • tasuki2 minutes ago
      > Pangram said

      I wish people stopped posting what Pangram said. Pangram set an impossible task before them — either they're grifters or naive. They use a magic box to determine whether someone else used a magic box, giving you a bullshit result.

    • greggoB9 minutes ago
      > and ends with a question.

      It's a reddit post - it ending by asking if others have had a shared experience hardly seems out of the ordinary.

      • tayo424 minutes ago
        It could have started with the question. The question could have been in the middle. It could have ended with a sentence after the question. But it's one aspect of the whole post that shows it's some weird engagement bot post.

        This thread is discussing something that's not real. People are forming opinions and discussing it. Unless everyone's a bot?

    • dadnet9 minutes ago
      The dead internet theory was a joke until it wasnt. I find it genuinely unsettling.
    • fomoza minute ago
      It's def written by AI but that doesn't mean that he's a bot. Just a coward. LOL!
    • add-sub-mul-div4 minutes ago
      It's not surprising someone like that has stopped using their brain for writing English as well.
      • tayo42a minute ago
        You think there's a real person behind this still? That seems like really weird behavior.
  • ltoscano21 minutes ago
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  • ToyKeeper12 minutes ago
    Posted in a subreddit for vibe coding enthusiasts.

    Top-rated reply tells submitter to solve their AI problem by adding more AI.

    Magnificent.

  • dilap13 minutes ago
    I guess mgmt also mandated they use AI to write their reddit posts?
  • pessimizer11 minutes ago
    What do you do when your entirely AI written codebase runs like shit? Do you prompt it to "do better"?

    "Find the things that you did that are badly, and do them better. Add a directive to claude.md to do it right the first time, next time."

    If AI codes better than humans, I don't understand why it has a dozen copies of stuff everywhere. Even people who suck don't suck that much. I don't even understand how you can get away with it unless you're writing functional code.

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