112 pointsby 16594470912 hours ago12 comments
  • areguean hour ago
    I have always felt that job ads should include salary information. The main reason is not to waste anyone's time. Often a narrow salary range or a clear link between requirements and salary are much more informative than a job description. I have experienced to apply to a job opening and go through one or more interviews only to find out that the company is actually hiring for a more junior position than the ad copy implied.

    A second reason is to avoid discrimination. Applicants that feel disadvantaged, even if they are actually qualified, may hesitate to negotiate for a higher salary in the same way that a other applicants would. The consequence is that they start with a lower salary. This applies specially to women. Plenty of research shows that they are less likely to negotiate their salary.

    Research[1] suggests that pay transparency leads to lower average salaries because employers avoid paying higher wages to any one employee to avoid costly negotiations with others. The effect is small, around 2%, and it disappears with increasing degree of unionization. In my opinion this is an acceptable price to pay to reduce pay inequality, which often is much more than 2%. It is also a good argument for joining a union.

    [1] https://www.nber.org/papers/w28903

    • trio84533 minutes ago
      Freakonomics have a good episode including one of the authors of that paper - https://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-to-pave-the-road-to-hel...

      It's very hard for people to accept that this might even be the case, many people just assume that transparency is better for workers.

    • logicchains17 minutes ago
      >In my opinion this is an acceptable price to pay to reduce pay inequality, which often is much more than 2%. It is also a good argument for joining a union.

      A company has a fixed amount of money it can spend on wages. Reducing wage inequality means paying less to the best employees and more to the others, which is great if you just want to slack off but terrible if you're already one of the highest paid employees.

      • n4r912 minutes ago
        How well correlated are the highest paid employees to the best employees, though? My guess would be that salary correlates strongly with self-belief, charisma, and negotiation skills
      • brainwad13 minutes ago
        This is the lump of labour fallacy, right? Companies don't actually have to have fixed labour budgets; indeed ideally firms should be always willing to hire/retain a worker at a salary less than that workers marginal revenue product, as this is profit maximising.
        • vovavili4 minutes ago
          Companies have bureaucracies and bureaucracies are very much budget-constrained.
      • hdgvhicv13 minutes ago
        It may mean paying less to the best negotiators, but not the best performers.
        • vovavilia minute ago
          These very much tend to strongly correlate. You're definitely more confident in negotiating if you have 10x skill as your leverage.
      • vintermann2 minutes ago
        > A company has a fixed amount of money it can spend on wages

        Absolutely not. It has a maximum, sure, and a minimum it can get away with, but there's always a range in between them.

        > Reducing wage inequality means paying less to the best employees

        Bold assumption that the best are paid the most.

  • ellen364an hour ago
    Cautiously pleased about this. Some companies in UK pay senior devs £30-35k. And some companies won't discuss that until v late in the process, while importing US-style multiround interviews. It's pretty silly when people get 3 rounds in, take time off work for the interviews, then find out their expectations are so far apart.
    • wewewedxfgdfan hour ago
      It is within your power as a job applicant to ask the salary range in the first phone call.

      It is your fault if you allow the recruiting process to get to the third interview without at least knowing if the salary range is acceptable.

      If you lack confidence in talking money, here is what you say:

      "I'm looking for $120K to $130K. Before we get further into the process I want to confirm that this salary range is what would be discussed if we get to an offer."

      You might add:

      "$120K is my minimum but I am really hoping to find a role at the higher end - $130K is what I'm aiming for, depending on the job."

      If, after saying all this, you get lowballed, then you have good reason to be very annoyed, and express calmly but clearly that you have had your minimum salary on the table since the first phone call." At that point you withdraw from the process and go look for a job with a professional company.

      • taneliv39 minutes ago
        I have never applied to a job in the UK (or in USA), and wonder why you are being voted down. Is that not an appropriate question? Or will the employers and hiring managers not give answers?
        • reedf115 minutes ago
          They more than likely will not answer or will dodge the question entirely. This is so ubiquitous that if you decided to only go through processes that do answer this question, you might not get anything at all. In many cases when they do answer, it is a bold lie; and if challenged "who told you that range?", "well if you hit certain performance parameters by year three your total package may be x...", "that's for the senior position, we are offering you the standard position".
        • n4r99 minutes ago
          The suggestion that it's OP's/the candidate's fault jarred me a little. In my experience this is such a common situation in the UK that you could be jobless for much longer if you insist on early salary disclosure.
        • em-bee21 minutes ago
          because you ask for their range, but you don't tell them your range.
          • pbalau6 minutes ago
            From GP:

            > I'm looking for $120K to $130K. Before we get further into the process I want to confirm that this salary range is what would be discussed if we get to an offer.

        • tokioyoyo31 minutes ago
          Yeah, weird, I’d say? Even in Japan salary range talks come up during the first call. Or in intro emails.
      • bluerooibos20 minutes ago
        > It is within your power as a job applicant to ask the salary range in the first phone call.

        For me, being fresh out of university, I didn't really think to press on salary too much and was just happy to land a job. In my first job, I recall not knowing the salary until I got the contract and offer (luckily, it was surprisingly above average pay).

        When I moved into the software industry, I started to realise my worth a bit more and job-hopped for 10-50% pay bumps on an annual basis for the first few years and just started chasing higher salaries and turning down interviews unless they were in my desired range.

        I know many other engineers who never changed this behaviour (or were never taught to be more ruthless and know their worth) and were just happy to receive any increase in salary - and as a result had 10+ years in the industry and had utterly pitiful salaries due to their employer simply taking advantage - you'll never receive the same increase in pay by remaining loyal to a company versus job hopping. I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing in the UK or what but this is the type of advice that should be given in schools more IMO.

      • badpun23 minutes ago
        This way you reveal your salary expectations first, which gives the other side the upper hand, in case they were prepared to pay more than you expect.
      • hkt38 minutes ago
        It baffles me completely that anyone provides a CV without knowing a pay range

        Would you agree to buy a house before you knew what it costs?

        Literally insane behaviour

        • doix26 minutes ago
          That's a pretty bad comparison. You aren't agreeing to work without knowing your pay. It's more like looking at a house before you know it's price.

          Depending on your circumstances, that might be reasonable. If most people aren't quoting pay ranges and you need a job, not applying because of that isn't very smart.

          I would make sure I knew the pay range before going through all the interview rounds, but not sending your CV in sounds too limiting to me.

      • 7bit28 minutes ago
        To disqualify you before you had the chance to explain why you're a fitting match? Tell me, why do you make such stupid statements?
  • claw-el30 minutes ago
    Besides ‘salary disclosure’, one other law that really helps improve salary is to ban potential employers from asking candidates’ current/previous salary. This avoids potential employers from offering just marginally better than candidates previous roles…
    • jakey_bakey4 minutes ago
      I got this once. I was equivocating, and then the guy was like, well, you're gonna give us your P60 when you join anyway, so you might as well tell me.

      I was like, okay, fair enough.

      I played it completely wrong though. I should have just reframed it and said, well, I paid this, but you're not competing against my current employer, you're competing against Meta, who I'm also interviewing with this week.

      • b3karta minute ago
        You don’t _have_ to give them a P60 though, right?
    • em-bee14 minutes ago
      i'd also like to ban asking for a salary expectation. it puts you in a very weak bargaining position. also my expectation depends very much on the type of work i'll be doing. i'll accept a lower salary for a good job and work environment, but i won't know that until after some interviews.
  • Xenoamorphousan hour ago
    Do they say something about the min and max in the range being no more than X% apart? To prevent scenarios like "between £20,000 and £100,000".
    • PaulRobinsonan hour ago
      No, but people will just assume the actual pay is £20k and decide whether to apply for it on that basis.

      As an employer that ruins one of the classic ruses that has been going on for a while: take someone through multiple interviews and then lowball the candidate who seems the most desperate.

      If you believe in free market economics I think we can expect this to be a mess for a little while and then within a year or two it gets relatively efficient at dealing with the inefficiencies it’s targeting: younger people just not wanting to play the bullshit game where employers dangle generous starting offers, and then rug pull them to 2/3rds of that number; and to fix the gender pay gap (and the smaller reaching ethnicity pay gap).

      • mjburgess41 minutes ago
        What do you think the fix to the gender pay gap is relevant to this conversation?

        There is no gender pay gap in 20s, 30s with several areas now favouring women. The mean pay gap is entirely due to the percentage of women in their 40s+ taking time off work for motherhood.

        • ilumanty27 minutes ago
          Anecdotally, women in their 30s are disfavored for the “risk” of starting a family
          • mjburgess13 minutes ago
            The paygap is just a measure of the number of women having children. What percentage should have children? If you want a zero mean paygap, the answer has to be zero.

            A woman who has two children, at minimum, works two years less. In a (25 - 65) yr career that's a 10% pay gap she'll experience wrt a male who works the same period.

            The paygap is just a dial which controls the rate of motherhood.

            There is no "per job" paygap. Nor could there plausibly be. For if any group could be paid less to do the same work, someone en mass would be, thus lowering the pay for that work. (Its unclear how such a rich source of free output from 50% of the population could go untapped, systematically).

            Though even if that logic isnt persuasive, there is no measured per-job pay difference at an individual level. The "pay gap" describes a mean difference in pay at population level -- when you control for total hours worked, it disappears.

            • n4r94 minutes ago
              Even if this is true, the obvious solution in my mind is to allow sharing of parental leave.
              • mjburgessa minute ago
                That wouldnt "solve" the paygap, women still need to be out of the workforce for O(1yr) per child. That would be an "individual" pay gap of around 10% for a women who has two children.
    • M2Ys4Uan hour ago
      We don't have any real firm details yet, the pre-legislative consultation only closed last week.

      However that consultation said this:

      >We propose to introduce this requirement [pay transparency in recruitment] through a delegated power, enabling regulations to specify exact requirements. For example, the size of a salary range.

    • pixelatedindexan hour ago
      That’s as ridiculous as some of the job postings here with a range of $100K-300K. Without bounding the range in some way like you say, this does absolutely nothing.

      Example: https://www.enduranceenergy.com/careers/2af3b48c-4e20-420a-b...

      https://westkite.com/careers-software-engineer

  • voidUpdatean hour ago
    Can we also make it mandatory to reply to a job application, even just an automated "sorry, your application has been rejected", so you know whether to keep considering that job?
    • andsoitis24 minutes ago
      If you do t hear back in a week, they’re just not that into you. Silence is an answer.
  • poisonborzan hour ago
    Such laws do not really help in practice. Does a 60-90k range in EU, commonly given to engineering roles, offer any real guidance? A better system would be publishing the average salary for a similar role, but that would be a privacy problem for a low headcount team, or if the role doesn't exist yet... This is a really hard problem.
    • jakey_bakeya minute ago
      That's fine though - As long as they're publishing the actual range that they like realistically pay someone, there's literally nothing wrong with that.
    • igorkrawan hour ago
      It's actually not hard at all, it's only a problem for companies if they fail to keep it secret. Norway has had their tax records public for ages https://www.weforum.org/stories/economic-growth/norway-can-s... and their society and economy seems fine, except they it's extremely easy for new grade to know what they can ask for.

      The "complications" are basically employer and manager propaganda because the information asymmetry suits them better than people realising they are undervalued and leaving

      • colmmaccan hour ago
        Salaries being a public record does come with some downsides for employees.

        For the low-paid, it can make it even harder to get credit, or a place to rent, and it can be used for other kinds of discrimination. For the highly-paid, service providers and sales people can use the information to increase the prices you pay and make negotiation harder.

        • sehansena few seconds ago
          [delayed]
        • em-beea minute ago
          your bank already knows your salary, and if they don't they are going to ask for it as a condition to give you credit. in some countries landlords ask for proof of income too. the less regulated these areas, the more likely that is going to happen.
        • hawk_28 minutes ago
          More transparency in a society is for the better. This shouldn't stop at salaries. Why aren't service providers required to disclose what they charge others? Why aren't dentists, lawyers, surgeons etc... required to report their stats? All of those would break information asymmetry and make for better decisions all around and less scams.
        • badpun18 minutes ago
          Even better, grocery stores might make various discounts and promotions eligible based on whether you belong to a certain bottom percentile of income. That’s the holy grail of price discrimination („milk them for all they have”), which is now attempted to achieve only through imperfect means such as premium brands, up-sells etc.
    • wongarsuan hour ago
      Ranges are still somewhat useful. If they low-ball the upper bound, anyone expecting close or above the upper bound is unlikely to apply. So there is incentive to be honest about that end at least. But as an applicant (or current employee), knowing the upper bound the company is willing to pay for this position is useful information for salary negotiations (and to enable you to spend your limited time and resources in applying to well-paid jobs)

      Obviously it's not perfect. But as you say, it's a difficult problem. And salary ranges are at least something

    • agenticfishan hour ago
      I think that it does. If you’re looking for a 120k a year job you know that you won’t have to apply.
    • NicuCalceaan hour ago
      In my experience, they will offer a bit above the advertised minimum of the range. So if I wasn't happy with £60,000, I wouldn't consider that job, and I definitely wouldn't apply on the basis that maybe they'll offer £90,000.
  • lifestyleguru5 minutes ago
    Why do they have to disclose the obvious? The salary is GBP 25000 gross annually.
  • feverzsjan hour ago
    actual salary = min(salary range);
    • PaulRobinsonan hour ago
      Not the reality in sectors that already do this, like the civil service, but it will cap the upper limit that people can negotiate to.

      Even if the minimum does apply everywhere, it fixes the inequalities gap that is causing so much economic drag in the UK: white men earn significantly more than any other demographic today for the exact same roles at the exact same companies. If everyone gets the bottom of the band, at least everyone gets the same, and that’s been an important goal for multiple UK governments of different political stripes over many decades for reasons to complex to go into here (and no, it’s not “political correctness”, it’s far more complex than that).

      I also don’t think it likely means average salaries come down, I just think it means the distributions narrow.

      • wasfgwpan hour ago
        > white men earn significantly more than any other demographic today for the exact same roles at the exact same companies

        Is there any evidence that’s the case?

        • PaulRobinsonan hour ago
          Yes.
          • hdgvhicva minute ago
            There are two elements to women being paid less. Both exist, but they are deliberately conflated for reasons.

            One is that women do get paid less for the same job on average.

            The second is that jobs which women tend to do get paid less than jobs which men tend to do, either through different industries or through different opportunities.

            It’s not as clear as “yes” though, and there is little evidence boiling down to the “same job” disparity.

        • mike_hearn11 minutes ago
          No. This claim relies on deceptive definitions of "exact same role".

          Employment tribunals in the UK now regularly conclude that jobs which are clearly different are actually the same, essentially as a bung to women. For example, stating that working in a warehouse lifting boxes all day is the same job as working on a checkout till sitting on a seat, or that being a librarian has the same value as a guy collecting garbage. Being a bin man is much higher paid because it's a dangerous, dirty and low status job that people don't want to do, so the incentives have to be correspondingly higher to attract workers, but delusional left wing tribunals declare by fiat that they're the same as highly feminized jobs that are clean and safe.

          This now regularly causes chaos in Britain, for example in Birmingham where trash just doesn't get collected because the bin men went on strike:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025%E2%80%932026_Birmingham_b...

          > The council also says that the Waste Recycling and Collection Officer role does not exist at other councils, and that retaining the role opens it up to equal pay claims, since it is performed mainly by men.[2] In March 2025, the council declared a major incident after 17,000 tonnes of rubbish were left uncollected on the streets.

      • backholdan hour ago
        > white men earn significantly more than any other demographic today for the exact same roles at the exact same companies

        I think this would be illegal under the Equality Act (which does not of course mean it doesn't happen), can you offer some examples or further reading?

        • mjburgess35 minutes ago
          I assume one day the racism and sexism in the commenter you're replying to will be addressed.

          Until then, you are quite correct. The pay gap is not a feature of individual jobs, but a population effect due to women in their 40s+ not being in the labour force.

          It is illegal in the UK to pay differently, and there are many high profile cases of this being enforced even to the point of absurdity (such as forcing councils to pay bin-men/trash-collectors the same as female office admin workers).

          Likewise as the mean pay for women is ~1month/yr lower, the mean hours men work, as a population is ~1month/yr longer. Thus there is no pay gap once you control for hours worked.

          Incidentally, the only way there could be no mean pay gap across both populations would be if no women had children. So a non-trivial paygap merely an indirect measure of the birth rate.

      • 41353aaban hour ago
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  • entterprice11 minutes ago
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  • worldsavior31 minutes ago
    Would that actually be a good thing? When a company publishes the salary range, that means the job seeker agrees to that range, including maybe getting the lower part of the range. Companies know that, and now they have the advantage to put lower ranges.
    • em-bee12 minutes ago
      if i don't agree to the range then i don't need to bother applying. saves me lot's of time.

      if i apply despite not liking the range i can still say no and ask for more, but not knowing the range in advance is unlikely to raise the chance of that happening.

    • 13 minutes ago
      undefined
  • gstean hour ago
    Labour's approach to problems is to tax employers into oblivion and then say "the reason salaries are so low is because we didn't ban them from posting adverts without salary disclosure".
  • WalterBrightan hour ago
    How is that going to work if you interview Bob for X task at Y pay, but discover Bob would be much better suited for A task that is worth more salary? What if Bob didn't meet the requirements for X, but would be a perfect fit for B task that is not worth as much salary?
    • fpolingan hour ago
      The requirement is to publish either minimal salary or salary range for the position from the advertisement. If company has several positions available then specific minimal salaries should be given for each.
      • WalterBrightan hour ago
        Sometimes companies create a specific position for an interviewee after getting to know the candidate. For example, a candidate might have an unexpected unusual skill.
        • pixelatedindexan hour ago
          What does that have to do with providing a salary range for a particular job posting? That specific position created should also have a range - publish that. Normally you have to interview other candidates for this position too.
          • WalterBrightan hour ago
            That would be making it difficult to adapt the job to fit the person.
            • pixelatedindex36 minutes ago
              Unless you’re some VP/Director/Distinguished Eng/C-level etc, this doesn’t happen in practice. Those jobs don’t follow normal job posting rules anyway, they’re usually sought out.

              99.99% of the time, I doubt the job is ever adapted for the person. They come in with that skillset and are usually expected to grow and meet the needs of the other job areas.

            • troupoan hour ago
              So, you want the 1 in 10 000 (likely 1 in 1 000 000) hyperspecific job posting to affect the rules for the rest?
        • aspect0545an hour ago
          And nothing stops them from doing that
          • WalterBrightan hour ago
            And then the candidate sues claiming bait and switch.
            • kakacikan hour ago
              And in any normal court they will lose since its a different position and they agreed (paper trail) for that switch. Or they could be just let go if company is too careful. Not that such situation happens often in real world, I never even heard about even one.

              If they would sue it would also burn their professional creds permanently, nobody sane would ever want to hire such a problematic person.

    • voidUpdatean hour ago
      Then you tell Bob about how he would be much better suited for job A or B, explain how the pay is less, and if he's cool with it, directly put his CV into the pile for that job. If he's not cool with it, shake his hand and wish him a good day
      • WalterBrightan hour ago
        What if there was no job posting with a defined salary for A or B?

        Sounds like lose-lose.

        • voidUpdate19 minutes ago
          If you're not hiring for that job, why are you telling Bob that he'd be really well suited there?
    • WalterBrightan hour ago
      The replies are all about workarounds for the law.

      So what is the point of the law, if there are all these workarounds?

    • skew-aberrationan hour ago
      Presumably the law will be written to account for advertised role != assigned role, but it can't account for gaming the system by never hiring exactly the advertised position.
      • WalterBrightan hour ago
        Sounds like a recipe for a lot of time and money wasted in court.
      • jimbob4535 minutes ago
        Ideally they reapply if it’s a lesser role and the pay is lower than the previously posted minimum.
    • specialdragonan hour ago
      I suspect that kind of bait and switch will become the norm.
      • WalterBrightan hour ago
        You can always walk away if you don't like the company's offer.
        • ElProlactinan hour ago
          If companies engage in behavior intended to deceive, they are wasting people's time, which has an economic cost >$0.
    • ahoefan hour ago
      Nothing says you can't negotiate, does it?
      • WalterBrightan hour ago
        The law seems to be about preventing negotiating.
        • notarobot12336 minutes ago
          The law is about information asymmetry. That doesn't prevent negotiation, it just changes the dynamics and power balance.
    • 486sx33an hour ago
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