84 pointsby gmays2 hours ago11 comments
  • Zigurd5 minutes ago
    I haven't watched an NFL game in years. I can no longer enjoy seeing people trade their brain function and lifespan for money that way. For that matter I recently revisited an extreme skiing video I bought long ago. Several of the people in the credits are dead now.

    All sports carry some risk. I ride a road bike. I wouldn't tell others how to weigh the risks of their sports of choice. I just wouldn't pay to watch someone fly a wing suit, knowing how some of those people have died.

  • cmiles8an hour ago
    I would never let my child play contact football. The data is beyond clear that this sport causes irreparable life altering damage to the brain.

    A lot of football players also suffer from mental health issues which, not to state the obvious, is likely not helped by banging your head all the time.

    • chrisBob40 minutes ago
      I am surprised by the otherwise intelligent and caring parents I have met who had their elementary schoolers playing tackle football. I don't understand that decision at all.
      • badgersnake20 minutes ago
        Unless it’s actually banned below a certain age, what are you going to do if that’s what they want to do with their life?

        If they don’t play and everyone else does, their development will be many years behind their peers which makes it unlikely they could play at a high level.

        But maybe you’re okay with that.

        • swatcoder11 minutes ago
          Yes, I think parents who see tackle football as an unsafe sport for their children are okay with not setting up their kids to play it at a high level.

          And like any responsible parents, they presumably also don't just defer to what they're elementary aged children "want to do with their life" nor feed into the exaggeration that "everybody else" does anything at all, let alone play tackle football.

          If you disagree with the dangers of the sport or are afraid of shaping your children's life choices for their own benefit, that's fine for you, but the rhetorical and snide way you presume others should share that view seems strange.

        • amanaplanacanal10 minutes ago
          If they don't play a game which damages their brain when they are children, they won't be able to go into a career which damages their brain as an adult. Hmmm.
        • kakacik7 minutes ago
          Gotta stick to the crowd at all costs, its so uncomfortable outside of it right
    • Forgeties7925 minutes ago
      Tackle football is basically the only sport my kids are not allowed to play. I don’t talk about it because I don’t want it to become something forbidden and therefore cool, but if they naturally find their way there and start getting pushy about it, it’s one of the few things I’m prepared to put my foot down about with no compromise.
    • thrwaway73637an hour ago
      playing at nfl level and kid level is something very different
      • estearuman hour ago
        As someone who has had multiple concussions in other sports, the impacts in youth football are absolutely sufficient to cause concussions and more minor (but still cumulatively damaging) trauma. The fact that they're a repeated part of the game and not occasional incidents is very, very bad.

        Requiring a child to play football should be actual child abuse, and even allowing it should be frowned upon the way that letting a child play with a blowtorch is.

        • thrwaway7363744 minutes ago
          there you said it: you got concusions from other sports. so why single out football as the worst thing ever?
          • estearum2 minutes ago
            > The fact that they're a repeated part of the game and not occasional incidents is very, very bad.
          • toast020 minutes ago
            Certainly, football isn't the only thing people do that leads to head injuries.

            But if it is significantly worse than other sports, why not single it out as the worst thing ever?

            Several sports increase the risk of CTE, but football has been more studied, I think because the incidence of obviously impared former players is higher than in other sports.

          • lkjdsklf41 minutes ago
            CTE isn’t caused by concussions. Hence the rest of their comment.
          • hibikir28 minutes ago
            Due to the number of concussions per minute played. It could be worse (boxing), but it's not difficult to see how some sports are far riskier than others
          • dwaltrip10 minutes ago
            Is it not worse?
      • ceejayoz31 minutes ago
        > playing at nfl level and kid level is something very different

        Correct. NFL payers are better paid, get better medical care, have better training and equipment, and their brains are more developed.

      • kakacik4 minutes ago
        As mentioned elsewhere here the damage is cumulative and started in their youth
      • sanexan hour ago
        Sure but the quality of gear you get in the NFL is much higher than what your typical kid gets. I regret the two years of football I played in high school.
      • chrisBob43 minutes ago
        Yes! A child with a developing brain, and no medical staff on the sidelines is potentially in a worse situation.
      • kyawzazawan hour ago
        did you even read? the bulk happened at collegiate level

        also there are studies on this

        McKee et al. (2023) – Neuropathologic and Clinical Findings in Young Contact Sport Athletes Exposed to Repetitive Head Impacts (JAMA Neurology) [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2...]

        Alosco et al. (2017) – Age of First Exposure to Tackle Football and Later-Life Cognitive Impairment and Neuropsychiatric Symptoms (Translational Psychiatry) [https://doi.org/10.1038/tp.2017.197]

        even intl football headers have concerns

      • alistairSHan hour ago
        Yes, and?

        It's well established that the effects of repeated head trauma are cumulative, with progressively longer healing periods, worse symptoms, etc. And that sub-concussive impacts also accumulate along with the concussive impacts.

        From the article: The bulk of the head impacts that these former NFL players experienced didn’t occur at the NFL level. They occurred at the collegiate level ... and at the high school level and in many cases the youth level. And all of those cumulative hits to the head added up to result in an increased risk,” said Daneshvar.

      • moatean hour ago
        From an injury perspective: What are they? Let's assume we're talking MS/HS football where the mass of the players is enough to really do some damage.

        Provide your data Mr. Thrwaway, if that even is your real name.

        • thrwaway7363742 minutes ago
          oh the citation/data trick and personal attack. lovely
          • jamiek8816 minutes ago
            From the article: The bulk of the head impacts that these former NFL players experienced didn’t occur at the NFL level. They occurred at the collegiate level ... and at the high school level and in many cases the youth level. And all of those cumulative hits to the head added up to result in an increased risk,” said Daneshvar.
  • taurath22 minutes ago
    It adds a sort of tragic element to the game. Growing up I used to cheer for big hits now there's a recognition you are often watching someone lose several years off of their life.

    There's also these guardian caps to reduce some of the shock, but they're not very effective - they absorb like 10% of the blow, and you don't see very many players wearing them in-game.

    • yborg9 minutes ago
      The main issue seems to be shock to the brain being sloshed around inside the skull, even neck-snapping type impacts without any contact to the head itself can cause brain injury. The extra helmet padding doesn't do anything to reduce that. Plenty of linemen have been diagnosed with CTE even though their play doesn't involve as much helmet contact or high speed collision.
  • kylecazar39 minutes ago
    I love football, but it's insane that we allow this for entertainment. Guardian helmets are insufficient. They need to commit to big changes, some of which will alter the game. No head in practice whatsoever. Redesign the line of scrimmage. Mandatory month out for concussions. I'll still enjoy whatever it becomes.
    • 3 minutes ago
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    • bena26 minutes ago
      > Redesign the line of scrimmage.

      What are your thoughts on how to redesign the line of scrimmage?

    • deaton19 minutes ago
      I'd get some hate for this on football forums, but targeting needs to be enforced a lot more strictly than it is. The NFL also did a good job reforming kickoffs, they're much safer now than they were, but we need to do something about punts.
  • noJiveTV10 minutes ago
    Played for four years ... my conclusion: regular, calm, ordinary people don't usually excel at american football. Aggressive, intense, competitive folk have a great time tho' ... it's not safe at all. Every last one of the starters self-identify as: a headbuster!
  • ericolan hour ago
    75% is an estimate. Of the 396 brains actually examined, 93% had CTE, though donors skew heavily toward players with symptoms.
  • dwaltrip8 minutes ago
    The game should be changed. It’s very clear.

    People will adapt.

  • 1970-01-01an hour ago
    Holy buried lede, Batman:

    >The bulk of the head impacts that these former NFL players experienced didn’t occur at the NFL level. They occurred at the collegiate level ... and at the high school level and in many cases the youth level. And all of those cumulative hits to the head added up to result in an increased risk,” said Daneshvar.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/nfl-cte-players-s...

    • rancar2an hour ago
      As a youth football from 5 years old in the 90s to high school in 00s in the Midwest, this is not surprising at all. Things are competitive from a young age. We more recently know much better, but this knowledge. The taught knowledge was protecting one’s neck from injury with “proper” form. From my lived experience at those times, there was 0 mention of head injuries, and blacking out and dizziness after hits were ignored by all if you were able to stand or walk within a short period of time.
    • christophilus17 minutes ago
      Yeah. The rules need to change substantially at all levels. I can't see another way out, without just banning the sport outright. In soccer, they've already done it at the kid's level. My kids' teams don't allow heading the ball at all. That's such an obvious win. It changes soccer pretty substantially, but it's still a lot of fun, and much safer with that rule in place. Football has enough money that I'm sure someone can solve this by adjusting the rules towards safety without completely changing what makes the game fun.

      That said, it may not be solvable. It's not just helmet-to-helmet collisions that are the problem. You often see players make a diving grab, and their head slams into the ground when they land. That's micro-concussion territory that may be unavoidable. But, my guess is it's an 80/20 rule. If you somehow eliminate player-to-helmet hits altogether, you'd probably end up in a good enough place.

    • Aboutplants18 minutes ago
      This is actually worse for the NFL, as it shows the cumulative impact is more dangerous than players who stop playing at high school
    • dopameanan hour ago
      Great news for the NFL.
  • kenjackson18 minutes ago
    What is the percent of the general population?
    • theDoug13 minutes ago
      The percent of the general population that gets Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy? This isn't a naturally occurring phenomena. It's the cumulative result of repetitive skull impacts and concussions.
  • ElijahLynn40 minutes ago
    Glad this is being talked about.
  • deaton22 minutes ago
    I'm kinda surprised its that low. Football, especially at the pro and college levels, has players (especially linemen) taking car crash level hits every single play.