36 pointsby tech-pulse7 hours ago4 comments
  • jsnell5 hours ago
    Local officials granting tax breaks to data centers are just total morons. There is no polite way to say it. They have these companies over the barrel, any negotiation should be about how much extra money the data center shovels directly to the locals to make them enthusiastic about the DC, not about tax concessions.

    But amazingly, they might not be the biggest morons of the story. This data center will make Google billions in profit per year. What beancounter is choosing to jeopardize that for avoiding $3M/year in taxes? How out of touch do you have to be to be to make that call, and why does that person still have a job?

    • stinkbeetle5 hours ago
      Yes governments are all rotten and corrupt to the core. We should be castrating them and limiting their size and power as much as possible, everywhere.
      • lioeters4 hours ago
        No. The solution is a complete overhaul of government to actually represent the will of the people, not to remove the only means the public has over their lives and community.
        • stinkbeetle2 hours ago
          Incorrect, and you also mischaracterized what I wrote.
          • happymellon20 minutes ago
            They didn't.

            > We should be castrating them and limiting their size and power as much as possible, everywhere.

            You may have different intent but that is what your wrote. These representatives are the voice of the people, if you limit their power then Google can build datacenters without even needing to ask.

  • Dylan168076 hours ago
    Well I guess the question is whether those protestors were representative of the community as a whole. 3 million dollars in tax revenue per year is a pretty good upside.
    • SoMomentary6 hours ago
      Anecdata to be sure, but I can tell you that no one I've talked to was pro data center. I'm sure those people must exist somewhere but somehow I've never run into them in real life.
      • Dylan168076 hours ago
        For datacenters being built at all I want them to invest enough in power production to avoid contributing to price spikes. And for them being near me I want strict noise controls.

        But if both of those are met, I'll be pro-datacenter if it can offset checks the size of Hermantown $800 per household per year in taxes.

    • DangitBobby6 hours ago
      Doesn't really seem like the city was interested in finding an answer to that question.
      • Dylan168076 hours ago
        They refused to reschedule to a larger venue (and more hours?) but since they can count how many people showed up and watched and emailed my guess is that wouldn't have given them a much more accurate picture. In some ways I feel like they should have done it anyway, in other ways I don't know if it would have made any difference. It's certainly a lot less illuminating than a community vote...

        When the article says "most" people spoke against the proposal, that's an unfortunate gap in the reporting. Was it 60% or was it 95% or where in between?

    • Klonoar5 hours ago
      Only $3 million? They’re dealing with one of the richest companies on earth and said company is currently trying hard to find where to shove these things.

      I frankly have to think $3m is low.

  • JumpCrisscross5 hours ago
    We need a framework for permanent funds, modeled on that in Alaska and other petro-economies, where a fixed fraction of revenue from the facility is put into a fund that pays out a cheque to residents.

    Maybe if a company complies they get expedited federal review or something.

    • s1artibartfast3 hours ago
      Why? In the case of fossil fuels or minerals, there is a pretty clear argument that public owned assets (in the civic sense), can be sold or leased for the enrichment of the public. It is a good model and supports the idea that citizens are fractional owners of the country and government.

      When it comes to data centers, that connection simply isnt there. It is often private land, construction, and power.

      Any leverage to collect revenue comes instead from 3rd party ability to obstruct and extort, not ownership. Often times objectors dont even have damages or externalities imposed on them.

  • aprilthird20216 hours ago
    > We are angry that our local city council is representing a corporation instead of the citizens that they are supposed to. We're protesting against citizens losing their rights in their own city. No amount of money is worth that.

    What rights are they losing?

    • defrost6 hours ago
      Representative government in which sufficient time is granted for all with an opinion to speak, a broad community vote on specific decisive issues.

      You know, the opposite of a very few deciding without paying attention to the many that stood outside locked doors in the cold.

      • Dylan168076 hours ago
        I like the idea of everyone speaking, but 4 hours of speakers with 3 minutes each should have been more than enough to hear all the important viewpoints.

        If they didn't listen, it wasn't for lack of physically hearing the arguments and seeing significant support.

        • defrost5 hours ago
          That's one of two things mentioned.

          There's the lack of a specific community vote on a large decisive issue affecting the entire town and utility availability and prices for at least a decade.

          For small towns such things are over and above the usual day to day of town council business and often warrant a community referendum and some time spent on presenting options.

          • Dylan168075 hours ago
            I think a vote would have been great, yeah. I don't know how difficult that would have been logistically.

            But specifically in terms of how much representation they allowed at the meetings, I give them a C.

        • paulryanrogers5 hours ago
          If there's enough interest to fill 4h of 3m speaking shots, maybe it deserves a direct vote by the people?