Email (and VPN, password manager, etc.) is far too sensitive to go as all-in as they want to do on AI. I've been using Tuta in parallel with Proton, and I will probably migrate over completely soon
What do people recommend as truly good alternatives? Particularly non-American ones due to Snowden's revelations etc. etc.
I'm a Proton customer and other than some UX improvements I'm not missing any big features. This idea they need more velocity is a failure in management.
That's enough momentum to coast on for a very long time, especially since their whole deal is that they're owned by a nonprofit and don't even have shareholders to pressure them.
They really had to nothing and they'd won, the only way to lose in a situation like that is... exactly this. Andy could have probably just sat on his ass for 20 years like Gabe Newell and probably been able to buy a similar yacht at the end of it.
"had" is the right word.
Sounds so juvenile, worse than a teenager. Unfit for running a company dealing with secure mail.
I guess I don't understand Proton's financial position. Are they not owned by the non-profit Proton Foundation? Why can they not just have slow and steady growth with an emphasis on security and quality?
Only thing that might save their face is kicking Andy and following up with Japanese levels of corporate apologizing.
Now we know it's run by a dick too.
They sold fear. That was all.
What more is there to say?
You just can't trust software being developed under such a man's leadership to be secure. It's a fatal mark against their raison d'etre.
This has always been the case. Lack of transparency and dishonest, overzealous marketing.
I use Fastmail because they are at least honest about their limitations and Proton is completely overhyped in terms of the genuine privacy and security of their products. Good to know that beyond being mediocre they've confirmed it's all increasingly AI slop: "Ninety percent of code at Proton in October was written by AI"
Never trusted this company because of Andy, and never will.
On the other hand, I do see the situation their leadership is in, even though they're not handling it in a respectful way. If the company needs to provide competitive services vs. everyone else who is using AI, they're just going to get left behind. And even for security: like if their engineers are skeptical about adopting AI how can they protect their system in a world with Mythos and all other kinds of AI running around attacking them? I imagine their product would attract employees who are more skeptical about AI, which is hard to change . They need to find a balance between keeping with the spirit and principles of their product but not be in denial about the new world we live in.
Why not just build a damn good product that has a steady revenue stream? You don’t have to compete in a race to the bottom. There are other ways.
My email provider is boring. They do email and nothing else. Feature development is glacial but reliable. I doubt they’re rich. I doubt they’re tripling their ARR. But they have a stable business as best as I can tell and seem happy with it.
This whole “the only way to compete is to eat the world” is stupid and only makes things worse.
Rotfl there's even this idea that you need vibecoded crap to resist Mythos? Oh my freaking god.
Everything else - and I mean everything else - is ancillary to that core function. Seeing a CEO openly throw security out the window in favor of Big Tech’s latest drug addiction is bad enough, but the CEO of a company whose entire reputation is bucking Big Tech? Inexcusable.
Already looking for exit strategies. I don’t want to give this prick one red cent of my money.
Leaving Proton has been in the back of my mind for a while, and this is probably the last straw for me. I've previously heard that Fastmail is good, but I'm interested in what others are doing. I agree with you that email privacy and security are top of the list. I don't care about a private AI feature (eg, Proton's Lumo), and I don't need their productivity suite (docs, sheets, meetings). Just do one thing really well.
Looking for others' input on the right way to offboard from Proton.
Almost like where there's smoke, there's fire.
Seems like dhh has a new pupil