55 pointsby gnabgib6 hours ago14 comments
  • Crunchified5 hours ago
    If someone says Google can't be trusted for purchases of long-term, capital-style goods like a thermostat (or smoke detectors), I'd have to agree. The Nest I bought way back when may still be installed in the home I sold 10+ years ago.

    But I didn't buy it from Google, I bought it from Nest (pre-Google) - a company that designed and sold high-tech gear that was designed to be permanently installed and (presumably) last a good long time. The acquisition was not a good match, but it is what it is - lesson learned and reputations lost.

    (and the design, honestly, was more down Apple's lane than Google's - I thought the former would be more likely to buy them out, not that it guaranteed any different results).

    • soraminazuki4 hours ago
      > lesson learned and reputations lost

      I think that's an overly optimistic take, because we've been through this over and over, and it's only getting worse. We collectively are clearly not getting the message, and we don't own anything as a result.

      • colechristensen4 hours ago
        one if the problems being the freedoms companies can be bought for the purposes of being destroyed
    • 3 hours ago
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    • 3 hours ago
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  • izend5 hours ago
    What a coincidence, I am working on deploying the https://nolongerevil.com/ on my 2nd Gen Nest Thermostat, my wife has bugging me for weeks to either fix it or buy a new one.

    I am actually going to self-host and vibe code my own cloud service on Cloudflare.

    • deadmutex3 hours ago
      nice, how do you plan to secure it?
    • tonymet4 hours ago
      how do you flash? do you need uart ?
  • folkrav5 hours ago
    On one hand, I obviously can’t legitimately expect the manufacturers of these things to support their older hardware offerings ad vitam aeternam.

    On the other, it’s a freaking thermostat controller. An appliance. I don’t want to have to replace appliances before they break, and software breaking it is unacceptable.

    I’ve been largely holding off on domotics because so much of it reeks of premature obsolescence... Maybe someone over here has good experience with Home Assistant et al?

    • roughly4 hours ago
      You could expect them to support the product for the lifespan of the product, though.
    • joshfee4 hours ago
      I've been using NodeRED + zigbee2mqtt/zwavejs for my locally controlled home automation to great effect. I expose all my devices to Google Home as a convenient frontend, but all the actual devices are mine and locally controlled so I can replace Google at any point. I tried home assistant years ago, but aside from the wealth of plugins I didn't find its approach particularly convincing. I have on occasion used it simply as a bridge between node red and HA plugins before though which is nice for niche devices or integrations
    • paxy3 hours ago
      It still works as a thermostat.
      • bagacrap3 hours ago
        Also I assume it still can be controlled from your phone? Only the "learning" features are gone.
        • nickthegreekan hour ago
          device screen only. i tossed mine and got an ecobee.
    • gosub1004 hours ago
      I was looking at wireless cameras on eBay and had to stop because I realized I can't just check specs and price. I have to make sure they don't require a cloud connection and or a service plan.
      • CamperBob23 hours ago
        I just bought a couple of Reolink RLC-810A cameras, and realized too late (after receiving them) that they require an app just to enable communications and configure the baseline RTSP functionality. Claude found https://github.com/TinKurbatoff/reolink-init# and took care of the issue nicely.

        I will probably buy a couple more of the RLC-810As, since I can only assume that newer models will be harder for the owner to actually own.

    • colechristensen4 hours ago
      plenty of things should have a mandatory sort of twenty year supportability warranty. not necessarily free repairs but an enforceable promise that a thing / "ecosystem" can be used for a reasonably expected lifetime

      for a thermostat that's measured in decades

    • tonymet4 hours ago
      They could easily license the server component to allow you to run it, or unlock the bootloader so you could run third party firmware.

      They've had 10+ years to plan ahead for this eventuality, and it's not rocket science.

  • regnull4 hours ago
    Nest is a disaster. Same with their fire alarms. I spent a small fortune buying those, just to rip them out and dump into garbage. Google hardware - never again.
    • michaelmcdonald4 hours ago
      Did you move to a different “smart” smoke detector? Just go with an old school “dumb” one?
      • idunno2463 hours ago
        not the parent, but when my nest protects died i switched to dumb ones. all co2 detectors expire after ten years, nest decided the appropriate action is to just brick it when they were ten years old. the only feature i really used was using the app to silence it when cooking got smoky. but theres very few options for smart ones, lack of interconnect compatibility got frustrating if i wanted to mix smart and dumb, and it would have easily cost twice as much(i have 6 detectors).

        ive considered connecting the interconnect wire to my esp32 (that replaced the security system) and get it pushed into home assistant, but without the ability to silence, a push notification that it is going off just didnt seem worth it

    • tonymet4 hours ago
      100% agree. i had a thermostat and 4 cameras. abysmal software, and the hardware started dying . The thermostat died after 3 years, due to faulty "smart" HVAC circuitry . The doorbell camera (with built in lithium battery, ) died after 5 years.

      > $1200 in hardware, practically worthless.

      • SoftTalker4 hours ago
        Meanwhile my mercury-bulb thermostat from the 1960s still works perfectly.
        • deadmutex3 hours ago
          They might've not regressed, but those things were bad UX.

          Those things are really hard to control, and no scheduling, no remote control, no sensors, etc.

          • SoftTalker2 hours ago
            They are simple to contol, turn a dial to the temperature you want. Remote control and sensors are just things Google has convinced you to think you need so you'll buy their fancy thermostat (that is now e-waste).
        • tonymet4 hours ago
          i marvel at simple mechanical-electric solutions . e.g. toasters, simple coffee pots, thermostats. 100+ year duty cycles. amazing elegance and resilience
          • rr8083 hours ago
            My wife bugs me to replace physical light switches with smart one. Sorry I'm too busy for that one lol.
  • shiandow5 hours ago
    The emudhra debacle might turn out to be an accidental boon for keeping devices like this running.

    To a point anyway.

    • tonymet4 hours ago
      wouldn't they have to be an emudhra customer (their ssl certs signed by emudhra)?
      • matkoniecz4 hours ago
        If I understood correctly, emudhra was able to issue certificate to any website.

        Therefore if some device trusts emudhra root certificate...

        • onedognight4 hours ago
          Google usually does certificate pinning. They know that the CA root store is not to be trusted to sign for their own domains.
        • onedognight4 hours ago
          [flagged]
  • 3 hours ago
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  • jayd164 hours ago
    How much could it possibly cost to keep these working?
    • bagacrap3 hours ago
      If it depends on some services that are being sunset then the cost of getting them working again approximates the cost of getting them working in the first place.
    • paxy3 hours ago
      The opportunity cost of people upgrading.
    • tonymet4 hours ago
      in theory AI can produce the ongoing software support. and the compute bill is trivial compared to even a single AI assistant customer (1/500). something doesn't add up
      • htrp3 hours ago
        why keep the software up when you can force people to buy another every 5 years
        • bagacrap3 hours ago
          These things are 15 years old. Are you still using an iPhone 4?
          • deathanatos2 hours ago
            Should you throw out your entire home every 1–2 years, just because a corporation would like you to?

            It's not a phone, so we're not necessarily expecting the lack-of-longevity we'd expect of a phone. (Although even a lot of phones are basically corp "can-you-upgrade-every-2-yr-or-more".)

  • tmaly4 hours ago
    I wonder if someone could just reverse engineer the firmware and made your own updates and app?
  • grishka4 hours ago
    Another case of a smart home device that unnecessarily needs someone else's servers. They could've made it controllable over the local network and that would've solved, like, 80% of this issue.

    I have a z-wave hub I bought about 8 years ago. Admittedly, it's shit, but it does one thing right — you only need the manufacturer's cloud services if you want to control it from outside of your LAN, or if you want integrations with other services.

  • synergy203 hours ago
    is there nest alternative somewhere that does not need cloud
  • guelo4 hours ago
    The law should require that if a company sells hardware that depends on an internet service, and later discontinues that service, it must open-source the communication protocol and provide a way to connect the hardware to alternative services. This requirement should cover every feature that was functional when the device was sold.

    Fortunately Nest owners got lucky this time and there was an escape hatch that allowed projects like No Longer Evil. But there's a long list of devices that have been bricked when their manufacturers shut down a proprietary backend.

    • deadmutex3 hours ago
      Someone has to write 'The law', and we need to prioritize politicians that do (instead of those that are trying to get views on social media by getting quips/gotcha moments).
  • plagiarist4 hours ago
    I would never buy an appliance that requires a third-party server. Google cannot remove the value from a Zigbee or Z-Wave thermostat like this.
    • wolrah3 hours ago
      One of many reasons I prefer home automation hardware that uses ZigBee, Z-Wave, or Thread over using WiFi. If it uses WiFi it almost always wants to connect to or worse requires a cloud, where the dedicated home automation network tech is basically the polar opposite and requires that it work entire directly locally or with a local hub.

      Other major reason being that "IoT" devices usually have the shittiest WiFi radios that usually don't even support 5 GHz and almost never support WiFi 6/7 modes where they aren't wasting a ton of airtime on their low-bandwidth communication.

    • gnabgib4 hours ago
      The Matter standard[0] (+HomeAssistant) starts to fix this, but almost all "smart" appliances have this flaw. From Lutron, GE, Apple, Amazon (ring), Philips(Hue), Samsung, LG, Control4, Ecobee, ADT, Schneier, Chamberlain, Tapo.

      [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_(standard)

      • wolrah3 hours ago
        Matter only sort of solves it because a lot of Matter devices (most in my personal experience) use WiFi and often intentionally neuter their Matter support to "encourage" you to use their app and/or cloud integration with a major voice assistant.

        I have a pair of Govee ceiling lights that have a RGB+CCT primary downward facing light and an addressable RGB accent ring. The ARGB ring only exists in their app. As far as both their Matter support and their official API are concerned these units have a single element which is the downward light, the ARGB ring is not controllable from any third-party systems.

        If these were using Zigbee, Z-Wave, or Matter over Thread they wouldn't be able to do this but because they use WiFi they can.

        I'm going to be opening one up soonish to see how hard it'll be to just replace the controller with one running WLED (or even reprogram the controller already in it).

        • gnabgib3 hours ago
          Agree.. although that brand isn't very reliable/a good industry indicator/always pulls that nonsense (I have some of their devices, all paired to an old phone on a vlan without internet.. the features "require wifi" but only because they want their app to overshare).
  • genldd5 hours ago
    Honestly, given the surveillance capitalism of it all, I take this as a win. The termostst should have been dumb the whole time, not an avenue for harvesting our data.

    More dumb electronics please.

  • paxy3 hours ago
    This thing was released in 2011, and can be replaced in 5 minutes for like $100. This is probably longer than any "smart" device from any manufacturer has ever worked. Not everything needs to be an anti-Google crusade.