117 pointsby bushwart6 hours ago22 comments
  • icegreentea25 hours ago
    The system in question is basically just a directed microwave emitter. It is designed to heat up the first ~0.5mm of your skin.

    It's safety is basically completely a function of the operator. Since the beam will keep depositing energy (ie heating), if the beam is held on a target, it will incur more and more heating (and potentially harm).

    In proper usage, safety is ensured through the combination of operator training, selection of proper settings, and induced compliance. If you have a shitty operator, risk of over exposure increases. The nature of this device means that it's not a barrier, it's a beam.

    During earlier testing, they were able to induce second degree burns on a test subject due to incorrect power and duration settings.

    • footy5 hours ago
      for certain types of tools (and I'd certainly class weapons as this type) you have to assume that a certain number of operators will be, as you put it, "shitty". Whether it's because they're having a bad day, are genuinely incompetent, are malicious, whatever the reason---some percentage of the operators will be using your tool in a way you'd discourage for PR reasons.

      Maybe I am too cynical, but I don't think the people making these tools actually care about this either, not beyond the potential for bad publicity.

      • ASalazarMX3 hours ago
        Since the title is ambiguous, it matters to clarify that it will be deployed on the border with Mexico, which has a long history of abuse and even cold-blooded murder of non-threatening undocumented immigrants. This will be abused, it's only a matter of time.
        • dgellow3 hours ago
          With the current administration I expect that’s what they are wishing for
      • javcasas2 hours ago
        Let's be honest. ICE has shown us that only the "shitty" operators will be hired in. Specifically the malicious ones, we cannot leave to chance spreading misery.
      • scottyah4 hours ago
        There's also the escalation timeline. In a hypothetical situation where nonlethal force is being used, but there's a threat that requires more than a gentle "please don't" type of heating, I don't think we'd want it to be limited. Gentle crowd suppression is great till someone pulls out a gun or knife, and though it's debatable opinion and there are a lot of factors to consider, I think a few collateral 2nd degree burns beats switching to a rifle and opening fire into the crowd.
        • Zigurd3 hours ago
          Take a look at the videos of police encounters posted online. The situation you're describing is highly theoretical. What actually happens is that you get pain compliance used to control talk back and disrespect of cop.

          Will taking the tools of torture away from cops increase risks they face? Maybe. But have they earned our confidence that they will use these tools wisely? No, they haven't.

          • buellerbueller3 hours ago
            Risk is part of the job profile. We keep trying to lower the risk, but do we lower the benefits accordingly? No.
        • hardbass3 hours ago
          LEO will use it against anyone they wish to. Why do people want a group that already has special privileges to murder you scot-free to have more powers? Anyone sane would be working to equalize matters by either kicking cops down to the same laws as us or arming up to the level as cops and arguing for the same immunities to murdering cos.
      • nonethewiser5 hours ago
        [flagged]
        • hilariously4 hours ago
          Most people fleeing across the border have braved significantly worse, this is just another way to harm people we see as lesser for the accident of where they were born.
        • stvltvs5 hours ago
          Every individual has their own risk tradeoff calculation. People already risk death to cross the border, so it's not clear how much this would move the needle.
          • 4 hours ago
            undefined
          • irishcoffee5 hours ago
            > People already risk death to cross the border

            At what percentage would you say? 1%, 3%, 87%?

            Does the country they are fleeing have no culpability? Why are they leaving?

            • nielsbot4 hours ago
              Crossing the border illegally (for now) is a civil misdemeanor and seeking asylum is legal under US and international law.

              > Does the country they are fleeing have no culpability?

              The US definitely has some culpability for making other places harder to live in.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

              > Why are they leaving?

              They're not doing it just for funsies.

              • irishcoffee39 minutes ago
                > The US definitely has some culpability for making other places harder to live in.

                You didn’t answer my question. :)

                • nielsbot38 minutes ago
                  I don't understand your question TBH. What would these countries do?
            • hilariously4 hours ago
              A man runs out of a burning building. You shoot him. Dang, that building really should have had more culpability.
              • jayGlow4 hours ago
                I was not aware that Mexico or Canada were in a state that requires their citizens to flee.
                • stvltvs4 hours ago
                  What are the chances that it's deployed at the Canadian border?
                  • jayGlow2 hours ago
                    Extremely low I don't think Canada or Mexico could be considered as dangerous as a burning building.
                  • wafflemaker4 hours ago
                    With winter temperatures in Canada, people could actually enjoy it.
                • Vaushite3 hours ago
                  Then you don't know anything about Mexico, do you? The US president is saying it's a shithole. Do people flee shitholes?
                  • jayGlow2 hours ago
                    Is Trump right about it being a shit hole? I figured he was just being a jackass I didn't realize Mexico was in a state where it's citizens need to flee.
                • shevy-java4 hours ago
                  Canada has a border issue?
                  • jayGlow3 hours ago
                    Not as far as I was aware of but Canada and Mexico are the only countries that share a land border with the United States.
              • jumpinjack7104 hours ago
                [dead]
            • no-name-here4 hours ago
              >> People already risk death to cross the border

              > At what percentage would you say?

              Why do you ask? If it was the lowest figure you mentioned, or halfway between the lowest and highest, would one of those make it better?

              Is the argument that this new tech will only kill n people on top of those that already die, so whether we fry less than 1% or a far higher figure, that one of those is better?

            • stvltvs4 hours ago
              Focusing on the specific death rate doesn't change that crossing the border is risky, and some people will take their chances with or without the heat ray. It's one more variable in the calculation.

              Wikipedia is available if specific mortality rates matter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_deaths_along_the_Mexic...

    • bijowo16765 hours ago
      knowing the kind of people who sign up for ICE/CBP enforcement, I have no hope that a trained or decent operator will be behind this machine.

      I expect a lot of severely traumatized people from this device

    • everdrive5 hours ago
      Also try not to think about contact lenses, piercings, jewelry, pacemakers, etc.
      • busssard5 hours ago
        i wonder what would happen if i am wearing a layer of aluminum foil under my shirt...
        • scottyah4 hours ago
          This must be a New World Order device because they can't get past my foil hat! Nice try, lizard people.
        • throw_away23 hours ago
          A layer of frozen burritos is probably your best defense.
        • bijowo16765 hours ago
          put it into microwave, aluminum will spark and will burn like the thermite
          • infinite_spin3 hours ago
            mom called and asked that you stop breaking the microwave
    • 101110015 hours ago
      > The system in question is basically just a directed microwave emitter. It is designed to heat up the first ~0.5mm of your skin.

      So what happens when it's shot at someone's eyes?

      • realo4 hours ago
        It is "non-lethal"!

        Be happy you are just blind for the rest of your life.

        Such a shitty government you have today in the USA, it boggles the mind.

        • scottyah4 hours ago
          They grew up watching Batman breaking people's backs and giving severe concussions, but because he didn't kill he was Good.
        • jauntywundrkind4 hours ago
          The Business Plot people who want to tear down the United States, the rebel faction trying to destroy democracy and the nation from within has really figured out how to keep driving fear and conspiracy into our hearts (the less mind the better). They're just such amazing aggitants, able to make people so willing and ready to throw this whole nation in the wood chipper.

          I wish we could identify, grapple with how bad what a terror America has become against itself. Against its history. Against in so many cases reality. There doesn't seem to be any regulating functions in red America, anything other than ever increasing war drums against democracy, against union, again the constitution, the declaration of rights, reason, kindness, and possibility. To make itself the foe of the nation has been the only thing this political faction has been able to lead by, and we are so far past the unhinging, never to come back seemingly, never to be able to have any learning moments, never to recognize a loyal opposition again, never to compromise. Just shrill shrieking bedlam and din forever.

          • Vaushite3 hours ago
            Apparently the recent ad showing the senator breaking into the girl's toilet to check her genitals was quite effective. There just aren't many of those ads.
      • icegreentea25 hours ago
        The innate blink reflex is supposed to be enough to limit risk of damage: https://web.archive.org/web/20130216134111/http://jnlwp.defe... (go to page 14/28).
        • euroderf5 hours ago
          So if I can't keep my eyes closed (because of a riot situation, or friends in trouble) am I risking permanent eye damage, with no government responsibility for it, because some cop shouted something into a bullhorn that I couldn't make out ?
          • icegreentea24 hours ago
            Possibly yes.

            The device works through line of sight, so blocking line of sight from the emitter to your open eyes (for example, by looking away and shielding with your arms) may be helpful.

            Testing indicates that test subjects reached their pain threshold in ~5 seconds (typically reacting within 3). Proper application of this device in a riot situation likely involves pulsed application, at sufficient standoff range (between targets and a barrier or your riot police/troops), precisely to reduce the risk of operators feeling that they need to dwell, with the standoff range providing enough buffer to allow operators to feel like they can illuminate, wait for initial reaction, shut off, and then read the full reaction.

            In your general scenario, you can replace this weapon with any other riot control tool, and get basically the same shitty situation. Once the government/police/whatever have decided that you are in a riot/mob, then you're not going to be treated as an individual, you're going to be treated as an element of a threat. This is true of dudes with shields and batons, beanbags, water cannons, tear gas, horses, whatever.

          • ssl-33 hours ago
            I have a thought from left field:

            There's a perforated metal sheet inside the door of every consumer microwave oven that blocks microwave RF, and permits visible light to pass.

            Remove it. Cut it up. Fit it into sunglass frames or goggles or whatever.

            • AlotOfReading3 hours ago
              Higher frequencies need smaller holes to attenuate as effectively. You'd likely be better off with aluminum foil than the door.
              • ssl-32 hours ago
                > Higher frequencies need smaller holes to attenuate as effectively.

                So let's make the holes smaller. We want to permit nanometer-wave light to pass while blocking centimeter-wave RF. I'm not seeing a particularly difficult engineering challenge here. :)

                > You'd likely be better off with aluminum foil than the door.

                Did you think this through at all? Running away and hiding while wearing opaque aluminum foil blinders is kind of a unilateral non-starter.

                ---

                Anyway, we also have this: Window film. Let's look at an example.

                3M Thinsulate Climate Control 75 is a self-adhesive film that blocks greater than 99% of RF from 100MHz to 4.5GHz[1], which I might suggest is pretty good for protecting the ol' eyeballs from a brief encounter with the blindness machine.

                The combination of it and a single pane of window glass provides 74% visible light transmission[2]. I further suggest that this allows plenty of light with which to safely move around.

                [1]: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1704860O/electromagnetic...

                [2]: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1435912O/product-bulleti...

                • AlotOfReadingan hour ago
                  You might note that the active denial system is 95 GHz, not 4.5 GHz.
                  • ssl-3an hour ago
                    So you're suggesting what, exactly? That further testing is necessary?

                    Please be constructive instead of dismissive.

      • eth0upan hour ago
        That and many other considerations. 1. is the system adjustable beyond the advertised wavelen. 2. Is the person able bodied, ie capable of retreating. 3. Is the person even aware of the context...

        This is where things are moving, however. I do not think it is good.

        We should be asking these questions.

    • outworlder3 hours ago
      > In proper usage, safety is ensured through the combination of operator training, selection of proper settings, and induced compliance. If you have a shitty operator, risk of over exposure increases. The nature of this device means that it's not a barrier, it's a beam.

      Yeah, that's going to go well with people aiming this at whoever they think it's "less than" them.

    • Zigurd4 hours ago
      Oh goody. Let's give cops another toy before we have tamed the use of pain compliance tools already in their hands. We are breeding a class of casual torturers.
    • ridgeguy3 hours ago
      This is a high power microwave emitter whose very high frequency (33GHz, IIRC - home µwave ovens are 2.45GHz) limits its energy deposition to a thin tissue layer. It's very effective, but big and cumbersome because of the high power requirements. At these frequencies, components are tiny. If one needed less than ten Watts, this could be a box the size of a desktop PC, maybe a shoebox.

      I'm fairly sure this could be (is being?) scaled down to something resembling the pain box used on Paul Atreides in Dune. An efficient "enhanced interrogation" technology is just too tempting for too many in power.

      (edit: omitted word)

    • slowin4 hours ago
      > It is designed to heat up the first ~0.5mm of your skin.

      Oh, is that all?

      > US officials had also considered deploying the system during moments of domestic unrest, including at the end of President Donald Trump’s first term when protests erupted over the murder of George Floyd, according to a former US official familiar with those discussions.

      This is for "the border" (because you know we should be able to torture people there), but really this will imperial boomerang back to US citizens in the blink of an eye.

      • mindslight3 hours ago
        The real question is why you would give a new weapon to the rioters, of course. Much of that "domestic unrest" was caused by police escalating situations (aka police riots), to both punish people for speaking out and also to use the spectacle of disorder to show how we need them.
    • danparsonson5 hours ago
      ...and one need only watch videos of "trained officers" hosing people with pepper spray to envision how that will turn out.
    • 2932o94ui4 hours ago
      And that's exactly the problem. We (and users) have known for decades that you can kill someone with a rubber bullet. And they have been used to intentionally kill on many different occasions.
      • MengerSponge4 hours ago
        Rubber bullets are supposed to be aimed at the ground, but we've seen (pun sadly intended) plenty of officers aiming at faces/eyes of protestors. This can kill, and if it doesn't kill it maims.

        They're trained to not maim or kill. More training won't fix it. More money and more resources won't fix that systemic rot.

        40%, after all.

    • eth0upan hour ago
      A while back, I'd been researching the general topic. Health problems fog my memory, but essentially I was trying to figure out how closely the proclaimed application/purpose actually fit the actual capabilities. I found, what seemed to me, evidence that the military systems are not hard limited to the specific advertised GHz/len spectrum, but can be adjusted for lethal purposes.

      Possibly the "safeguard" portion of the first patent below indicates this; which may only make sense if such devices are capable of exceeding lawful spectrums, etc. Not sure though.

      The others I just threw in. I am not in the right space to vet or read them right now, so they may or may not be relevant. That said, I did once interview a soldier who told me of some off-the-record use of directed energy in Iraq/Afghanistan... describing bodies with relatively intact exteriors with internal damage not fitting of thermobaric weapons, ie vehicles also intact. Terms used were "cooked from the inside". Anecdotal, but disturbing, and certainly physically possible.

      1. https://patents.google.com/patent/US7921588B2/en

      2. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20220082358A1/en

      3. https://patents.google.com/patent/US7784390B1/en

      4. https://www.patentbear.com/patents/US7490538B2

    • pstuart5 hours ago
      There's no way I'd trust this in the hands of anyone, especially those operating in the service of the current administration. They say they want to use it to "protect the border" but there are reports that they'd used it domestically already.

      Considering the non-tolerance of public protest and the "promise" of non-lethality, I could imagine this becoming a regular tool in population control if things don't change.

    • pull_my_finger5 hours ago
      > If you have a shitty operator, risk of over exposure increases.

      Good thing border control isn't full of rejects and nonhackers from the military and real law enforcement \s

    • srean4 hours ago
      > If you have a shitty operator

      Well, we are talking about US border patrol folks. Trust me, they are the nicest guys around /s.

  • hoppyhoppy22 hours ago
    Microwaving people at the border stimulates the US defense manufacturing sector and ensures the livelihoods of microwave weapon operators. It could even prop up hospitals in rural border areas where the microwaved migrants get checked out.

    Microwaving people is clearly a net good for society, and once domestic non-border use is approved we'll be able to build America back even more quickly.

    • javcasas2 hours ago
      There is a broken window fallacy somewhere around there, but I cannot find it right now.
    • skoll432 hours ago
      I, for one, welcome the methods of our robot overlods
  • causesothere5 hours ago
    This is a weapon that will be deployed primarily against their own citizens.
    • samudrijan5 hours ago
      The “border” extends 100 miles in-land from the actual border and encompasses 2/3 of the US population. DHS needs to be dismantled stat.
      • 101110015 hours ago
        [flagged]
        • kec5 hours ago
          DHS was founded in 2003, as was ICE. The country got along for 227 years without these organizations, they aren't some bedrock thing from time immemorial.

          Recognizing that the current structure and mode of operation of these organizations is problematic and leading to bad outcomes also doesn't mean flipping to fully open borders with zero law enforcement as some imply every time this is brought up.

          • 101110012 hours ago
            > DHS was founded in 2003, as was ICE. The country got along for 227 years without these organizations, they aren't some bedrock thing from time immemorial.

            The creation DHS was a reorganization of existing government functions. ICE existed before 2003: one bit was part of INS and another bit was part of the Customs Service.

            Patrolling the border and immigration law enforcement have been going on since before any of us were born.

            • kec2 hours ago
              This is not entirely true, CBP still exists independent of ICE. Immigration enforcement within the interior, especially in the fashion we’ve seen recently, is a relatively new phenomena.
          • mcmcmc4 hours ago
            > DHS was founded in 2003, as was ICE. The country got along for 227 years without these organizations

            Almost like something happened shortly before then that caused a seismic shift in our national security posture…

            • kec3 hours ago
              The fact that 9/11 happened does not imply that DHS and ICE as currently structured and operating are necessary. At most it implies _some_ change might have been necessary, but not definitely _this_ change. It certainly doesn't mean we can never look for reform.
              • mcmcmcan hour ago
                > The fact that 9/11 happened does not imply that DHS and ICE as currently structured and operating are necessary.

                Never said that it does. I’m not in favor of the domestic surveillance dragnet or Trump’s usage of ICE as shock troops and bodysnatchers. Reform is absolutely needed; eliminating the functions of DHS and ICE entirely is foolhardy. The lies and propaganda painting all immigrants as violent radicals don’t change the reality that there is a subset of evil people intent on doing harm.

            • grandpajoey4 hours ago
              The biggest false flag of all time, which led directly to the fascist policies we're talking about and the death of millions of innocent people in the Middle East? I wonder who benefited from that huh?
              • mcmcmc3 hours ago
                Either you don’t know what a false flag is or you are way off the conspiracy deep end. Terrorism has always existed, modern society has just made it easier to kill en masse. America’s misadventures in the Middle East definitely instigated the conflict and the attacks but it’s factually incorrect to imply 9/11 was orchestrated by the US
                • grandpajoey3 hours ago
                  I couldn't disagree more. This has been the modus operandi of Zionists since the invasion of Palestine.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

                  And if you want a US non-Zionist false flag (that literally started the Vietnam war):

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

                  • mcmcmc2 hours ago
                    You sound nuts. I’m not denying the existence of false flags. There is zero evidence to support a false flag theory for 9/11. The intelligence failures were a result of organizational inefficiency and incompetence, not malice.

                    Given the intense scrutiny of the event you’d think there’d be some evidence if it was actually a false flag, no? It’s pure fantasy. Frankly it’s more likely the 9/11 conspiracy theories are planted by Russian operatives to sow dissent.

                    • grandpajoey38 minutes ago
                      There's actually a ton of evidence to support 9/11 being a false flag. Dancing Israelis, arrested Israelis (did you know we deported hundreds of them immediately after 9/11 for spying?), everything having to do with Larry Silverstein and Howard Lutnick, George Bush meeting with Osama Bin Laden's brother on 9/10... and of course Israel being the only party that benefited from 9/11.

                      All of this is easy to verify and well documented. I'll add that Netanyahu/mossad regularly brag about psyops and false flags. Netanyahu was just on 60 Minutes talking about how they can plant false evidence on your phone roughly a month ago.

        • causesothere4 hours ago
          DHS is brand new, has caused horror and terror, and soaked up tons of funding that could go to literally anything else.

          It doesn't need to exist. Keep the customs checks, keep the border crossing folks. Keep port inspections. Run ourselves like a normal country and like we did for hundreds of years.

          Shit is just reactionary nonsense after 9-11.

        • gessha5 hours ago
          Re 2: There’s so many gov agencies with overlapping responsibilities that I’m actually surprised you ask this. You can totally close a number of them and still have a functioning government on paper. Reality might turn out different.

          As per your second question, I have no answer. Dems are so dysfunctional it’s beyond parody.

        • VCFundedGenYer5 hours ago
          You don't seem to be grasping the severity of the situation if all you care about is "what do you want as a replacement?"
    • abduscoan hour ago
      Hurr durr Iran killing their own citizens
    • gosub100an hour ago
      I saw something recently about stun cuffs or something like that. Basically an electric torture device, being commissioned for US prisons. It might have even been a chair. This stuff has to stop.
    • nonethewiser5 hours ago
      At the border?
      • barbazoo4 hours ago
        At the next protest against the government.
        • encoderer4 hours ago
          The tin foil hatters get the last laugh
          • scottyah4 hours ago
            Have you seen tin foil in a microwave? I think they'll be the first to stop laughing :(
            • Vaushite3 hours ago
              If you make sure it's smooth without gaps it will reflect the waves like a mirror.
        • profdevloper2 hours ago
          Let's hope so -- so tired of seeing cities burn to the ground
          • causesothere14 minutes ago
            I remember Portland. Sadly it burnt to the ground. No one lives there now, because there are no buildings.

            Wait, I'm hearing reports. Reports that literally no city has been burnt to the ground due to protests? None at all? And this HN account is just out of touch?

      • causesothere4 hours ago
        My sweet summer child. You know how LRADs are deployed against US civilians? You know how chemical munitions are deployed against US civilians? (Specifically munitions that are considered illegal to deploy in war, but are apparently acceptable to deploy by police?) How flashbang grenades launched from handheld launchers are deployed against US civilians? How about the military personnel carriers and MRAPs?

        You think those didn't start as restricted to some theater of war?

        Go read up on the 1033 program. Or the DHS Grant Program, the Justice Assistance Grant program, or the 1122 program.

      • thunderfork5 hours ago
        Today, the border; tomorrow, hand-me-downs to every cop shop in the country
  • skoll434 hours ago
    Brother, so the ai bots will literally microwave us, what a time to be alive

    First the border, I don't see why they would stop there with the tech

    • allthetime3 hours ago
      The Gaza Testing Ground comes to the USA. Large scale protest and revolt will continue to become a less attractive option for frustrated Americans.
  • igleria5 hours ago
    Surely the border patrol will not use it to torture a trespasser?
  • jpmattia4 hours ago
    And suddenly, there was a market for body-sized Bragg reflectors in the microwave region.
  • hypfer3 hours ago
    This is exactly the kind of weapon system one would want if they were to deal with climate change in the most inhumane way possible.

    Just ignoring climate change, then building a secure perimeter to keep away anyone fleeing from the consequences of it.

    The "best" part of energy weapons like that is that they just need energy. Meaning that no one has to constantly restock ammunition. They can even run off renewables.

    Making the whole thing scalable. Fully automated energy weapon sentry guns on the border to the global south.

    This is going to be the future, isn't it? Jesus Christ.

    • gosub100an hour ago
      Easily repelled with knit wire though
      • lnsruan hour ago
        Don’t worry. Every third turret will shoot also non lethal rubber bullets to deal with knit wire holders.
  • helios_invictus4 hours ago
    It's my understanding that this tool is for crowd control and area denial. While I can understand how this may useful along the border in fantasy, it appears to be literal atomic flyswatter to unreal problem.
  • b3ing2 hours ago
    Problem is these evangelicals don’t see others as people, just wait for them to define what Christianity is
  • Undulating-Appa3 hours ago
    How would this affect wildlife? could it potentially affect the ecosystem if there is a large deployment?
    • dmix3 hours ago
      It only goes a half mile out at max range, it's not that far. So basically whatever is immediately in front of the truck.
  • ck24 hours ago
    just a hop step and jump to being used on (completely legal) protestors

    there are already several recorded incidents of LRADs being used on crowds which do permanent damage but invisible so very handy for authoritarian governments

    * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmK-KZOiT-c

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_acoustic_device

  • rolph3 hours ago
    not far away until we have the microwave helmet.
  • LatteLazy2 hours ago
    People really need to start reading Fahrenheit 451…
  • 4 hours ago
    undefined
  • shevy-java4 hours ago
    > The heat ray, officially known as the Active Denial System, is a nonlethal weapon that shoots an invisible beam of electromagnetic waves that can reach a little more than half a mile away, according to the US military.

    Stun gun and electro shocks are also advertised as non-lethal. But the name is wrong; it should be called less-lethal at best.

    • Zigurd4 hours ago
      They are torture implements, sold to enthusiastic torturers, by people morally depraved enough to be in that business.
      • scottyah4 hours ago
        Maybe, but do you have a better solution?
        • Zigurd3 hours ago
          The problem is the overuse of torture devices against people who are unarmed and nonviolent. Torture devices are too convenient in contexts where speedy compliance is sufficient reason to inflict pain, absent a genuine threat. What problem were you thinking needs a solution?
          • scottyahan hour ago
            Oh in that case, just give the people whatever they want. I assumed the discussion was about the scenarios this tool was designed for, aka not "unarmed and nonviolent" people.

            The problem I think needs a solution is a group of mostly good people being riled up with the well-studied herd mentality, laced with people doing bad things. You want to be able to stop the few bad people (without killing, obviously) with minimal disturbance to the good people, but at any time you cannot know who is good or bad (i.e. you can't enter the crowd to target specific people), and at any point the good people can turn and become malicious actors, contrary to how they'd behave in most circumstances.

            • Zigurdan hour ago
              Look at some videos of police encounters.The way they actually get used is as convenient torture devices.
        • Vaushite3 hours ago
          Don't torture people?
  • footy5 hours ago
    what the actual fuck.

    edit: okay, first reaction, obviously not contributing to any conversation. This is barbaric and if I paid US taxes I'd be writing my government.

    • sigspec4 hours ago
      I write them constantly. I've tried calling, emailing, faxing, snail mail. I've only ever received a handful of generic form letter responses.

      The lobby is louder.

      • Vaushite3 hours ago
        The average congressman payoff is only about $10k. Anyone got that to spare?
        • alphawhisky3 hours ago
          I've got something much more persuasive than $10k.
    • cdrnsf4 hours ago
      This administration only accepts adulation, not criticism.
    • hardbass3 hours ago
      If it is writing and organizing to have the same rights as cops to shoot them without consequence, then yes. Otherwise it is of no use. Why do people accept being second class citizens where one group has the right to murder them without consequence?
    • monkpit4 hours ago
      If that worked, we wouldn’t have been in this situation in the first place.
  • stuaxo4 hours ago
    Sadistic
  • metalman4 hours ago
    the actual problem is that the 'pentagon' has zero authority to grant some jumped upp 3 letter agency the go ahead to test what is basicly an electronic flame thrower on civilian refugees, you know ,scared, hungry, tired, women carrying infants with absolutly no idea what is happening to them, and this by an organisation with a solid record of publicly executing american citizens and walking away saying 'fucking bitch' put the pieces on one page and it looks full on gestapo high tech kill squad times.
  • mrguyorama2 hours ago
    This thing has actually been around for 20 years now, right?

    "Future weapons" on the Discovery Channel showed it off back in 2007ish.

    It's been in development hell that long because it just sucks in a million ways. Water cannons and other tools just do it's job better, and for less contract dollars.

    And that's ignoring anything around microwaving your own citizens being fucked.

  • ionetan4 hours ago
    I read DHH, and started wondering if he is ok :D
    • Computer0a minute ago
      I think the nazi's used gas
  • 5 hours ago
    undefined
  • alphawhisky4 hours ago
    Wasn't there a relatively high-profile case of a journalist dying of "nothing" after whistleblowing recently? I only remember that a directed energy weapon was one of the proposed methods of their assasination.
    • gus_massa3 hours ago
      It's not magic, this will make burn marks before it can kill someone.
      • alphawhisky3 hours ago
        Sonic weapons can cause damage to tissue without being visible on the skin. It's science, not magic.