226 pointsby heyimada5 hours ago23 comments
  • cattown8 minutes ago
    I think local governments should be regulating and zoning new data center construction in a way that forces them to rehabilitate old industrial brownfields. There’s plenty of land already spoiled by human activity that can be reused. No reason to be cleaning nature for a warehouse full of computers that could be built anywhere.
  • monk_grilla3 hours ago
    > Google said in a statement “we understand the concerns” and that it had “fallen short of our own high standards”.

    But it wasn't their own high standards, it was a legal obligation that they neglected?

    I hope in vain that the powers that be are able to punish them in a way they will actually feel...

    • jltsiren2 hours ago
      This is an amusing little scandal, but it seems to be only a procedural issue. Assuming that Google has some basic competence, it selected locations where it's ultimately possible to build data centers while complying with all legal requirements.

      My guess is that the government will eventually find that all requirements have been satisfied and let the projects move on. But because this is now a controversial issue, someone with the standing will very likely file a complaint. Then the projects will be stuck in administrative courts for a year or two.

      • culian hour ago
        > This is an amusing little scandal, but it seems to be only a procedural issue.

        If you go out and illegally cut down a tree, that's not "only a procedural issue". They illegally logged 815 acres of forest.

        • jltsiren17 minutes ago
          Breaking the law is a procedural issue.

          Logging a few hundred hectares was not a problem. Google could have done that without additional permits, if their intention was to plant a new forest afterwards. Environmental impact assessment was only necessary, because they intended to replace the forest with something else.

          The key question is whether Google can comply with the law after the fact. If they complete the assessment and the government finds nothing that would prevent the construction of the data centers, the project can go on. Maybe there will be some minor sanctions, as well as some delays, as they didn't do things properly the first time. And even if there is something that prevents construction, Google can still probably comply by planting a new forest.

        • dackdel18 minutes ago
          they illegally destroyed 815 acres of forest
      • reactordev2 hours ago
        be real, they will just pay off the local officials to pass zoning laws to make it all legal. As they have done across the states.
        • jltsirenan hour ago
          The environmental impact assessment requirement is a national law, and the national government is responsible for approving it. But since elections are coming and the issue has become controversial, the government coalition will happily ignore it and let administrators and judges sort it out. They have bigger things to worry about.
          • reactordevan hour ago
            who is left at the EPA to review it?
            • hoppyhoppy2an hour ago
              The forest and Google datacenters in the article are not in the US.
      • _heimdallan hour ago
        Its a pretty egregious procedural oversight if you want to chalk it up to that.

        For sure this is being politicized, for example claiming that the area was reduced to sand due to an overheated data center market. But to clear the land before doing legally required environmental impact studies is a pretty obvious mistake, and frankly I'm not sure how you'd even have landed on a plan for land clearing before doing said study if its required. How would you know what areas to clear, for example?

        • lanyard-textilean hour ago
          Yeah, that is not procedural oversight. That's simply not following the law, plain and simple.
    • wolvoleo12 minutes ago
      It really reads as "We're sorry we got caught" in corpospeak.
    • newCrotchSmellan hour ago
      They phrase it briefly like that for maximum coverage

      Pose your question to them and they can say "sure if you need to finish our statement with...high standards to follow law... you do you"

      Subject = our high standards

      Predicate = whatever context you want to store here

    • shadowgovt3 hours ago
      The punishment will almost certainly fall on the subcontractor they contracted this work to who cut corners and should know better about local law.
      • wolvoleo7 minutes ago
        Ah yes the Amazon model. Cover your ass with subcontractor to take the fall, and make them so dependent on you that they unquestionably follow orders.

        That way you can evade all sorts of labour and environmental laws and if it blows up you just pop the contractor and find a new one.

    • titzer3 hours ago
      > are able to punish them

      They will not.

  • mitjam7 minutes ago
    These could be on the order of 300k trees, illegally cutting a tree in Germany could cost up to 50k euro, that sums up to 15B Euro. Bad math but it gives a perspective on the magnitude of not caring about the natural environment.
  • redanddeadan hour ago
    Ugly. They had the resources to make it beautiful and part of the environment instead they bulldozed it

    Founders need to speak on this. If they've got time to get in the weeds on gemini, they've got time for this

  • jml7c518 minutes ago
    For reference, 330 hectares is 0.001% of Finland's forest cover.
  • ncr1005 hours ago
    > Google said in a statement “we understand the concerns” and that it had “fallen short of our own high standards”.

    Apple said the same rhetorical non-apology apologetically, recently... about something??

    • iamarobot4 hours ago
      I think it was their Siri. Apple Intelligence lags a lot behind competitors, and back during WWDC last year Craig made an announcement about how "Siri had fallen short of expectations".
      • ares6233 hours ago
        Executives were the world's first slop slingers even before LLMs. No wonder they got infatuated so easily.
    • georgemcbay3 hours ago
      > Apple said the same rhetorical non-apology apologetically, recently... about something??

      Entirely possible they were advised by the same crisis management firm like FGS Global or Brunswick Group.

      There is a whole giant industry around pretending to be sorry effectively.

  • andsoitis5 hours ago
    Google’s web page about the Muhos data center referenced in the article: https://datacenters.google/locations/muhos/
  • thayne4 hours ago
    > it would consider enforcement proceedings and a fine

    Oh man they are going to consider a fine, that would probably be barely an inconvenience to google.

    • titzer3 hours ago
      Fines are just there as a threat to make sure they're not behind on their (checks notes...what are they calling it these days again...oh that's right) PAC contributions.
    • stogot37 minutes ago
      they gave them extra time to finish the dirty deeds

      > the Finnish Licensing and Supervision Authority (LVV) said it had issued a notice to the company to “immediately suspend” – by 23 October at the latest

  • sathish31641 minutes ago
    Don’t be evil, unless there is billions of dollars involved

    - Fell 330 hectares of forest for Data Center 1

    - Fell 200 hectares of forest for Data Center 2

  • mitjam20 minutes ago
    What happened to „don’t be evil“?
    • 10 minutes ago
      undefined
  • LoganDarkan hour ago
    > If Google does not comply, IVV said it would consider enforcement proceedings and a fine.

    Ah. A fine. That'll teach them.

    (No wonder they ignored you.)

  • mattmaroon2 hours ago
    *illegally
  • charcircuitan hour ago
    All this red tape just slows down innovation. There is too much of a compute shortage right now that we need to figure out how to accelerate datacenter build outs.
    • ethanwillisan hour ago
      There's a shortage of something but I don't think it's compute.
    • 52-6F-62an hour ago
      If this is indicative of how people are actually thinking in the tech industry these days, then it's doomed. It will devour itself.

      Old growth forest don't just come back.

  • bethekidyouwantan hour ago
    People sure love to hate datacenters. what we should build instead (or is it where?)
    • _heimdallan hour ago
      The answer can also be not building something. Its not like we have a set quota of building stuff that has to be allocated one way or another.
      • bethekidyouwant37 minutes ago
        We’re in the middle of the next technological revolution and not building is our best bet? You could’ve said that about the green revolution we should have left the fertilizer in the ground cause now we have 10 billion people and all the problems that come with it.
        • wolvoleo3 minutes ago
          So what, if we don't invent the technology we will next year. It's not like the world stops turning if innovation slows down a bit. In fact a lot of people think it's going too fast now. Even a lot of people in the industry.

          And we shouldn't have made so unsustainably many people, I really don't understand why people are still fussing about birth rates when environmental crises are piling up (and social ones too like cost of living/housing)

  • clumsysmurf2 hours ago
    Seems this is becoming a frequent thing, all over:

    "One of America’s Last Chestnut Groves Is About to Be Destroyed for a Data Center"

    https://www.gadgetreview.com/one-of-americas-last-chestnut-g...

  • cucumber37328422 hours ago
    As someone who's seen how this sausage is made in another jurisdction I assume what's going on here is Google or the builder got some sort of statement from some board to the tune of "oh well because you checked whatever boxes we will exercise our discretionary authority to waive this for you, the exact opposite of what how we'd behave if you were some uppity peasant seeking to develop some petty land". Naturally there are some who don't like this have probably complained to the next authority up who's putting some scrutiny on the situation and whatever approval they were given has been rescinded and now they gotta do it the hard expensive way.

    Or it might be one of those cases where the discretionary BS you can be put through is so onerous and capricious that the cheapest way to get it done is to bulldoze first, let the threats fly and use whatever legal maneuvering that gets you to wind up with a more favorable venue (the higher up you go the more friendly to industry permitting authorities tend to become).

    • rnd0an hour ago
      It's better to pay a fine than to ask for permission and get turned down? yeah, probably.
  • alex11382 hours ago
    There is Ecosia, apparently. I don't recall which trackers (crawlers) it uses
  • iJohnDoean hour ago
    That photo looks horrible. Of all places, why cut down a ton of trees to build a data center. I hope the trees were used to build housing for the homeless or something. Maybe a youth center at least?

    I don’t know much about Findland, so maybe there are trees everywhere.

  • tombert4 hours ago
    When should we expect our corporate overlords to block out the sun just to fuck with us? [1]

    [1] https://youtu.be/L3LbxDZRgA4

  • ljm3 hours ago
    Do no evil, right?
    • shadowgovt2 hours ago
      Don't be evil.

      "Do no evil" is a functionally impossible standard. Subtle difference but it matters.

      • SlightlyLeftPadan hour ago
        As an executive of a company, I can think of no reason to remove that as a value unless of course (checks notes) you are condoning and encouraging evil.
  • functionmouse4 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • gepardi31 minutes ago
    Fuck Google, seriously. Avoid as much as possible.
  • rnd0an hour ago
    To no one's surprise Google has gone from 'Do no evil' to 'Do all the evil, develop new levels of evil and then do that as well'
    • _heimdallan hour ago
      That does seem a bit dramatic. What Google did here, assuming the reporting is true, is absolutely bad but it isn't unprecedented. I'm not sure how clearing land for a development would be considered a new level of evil.