69 pointsby ljf3 hours ago12 comments
  • bjorn_identity3 hours ago
    Citizens sometime commit crime. The Police justify indiscriminate gathering of evidence preemptively against all citizens using Flock based on the rationale that when a crime does end up being committed, the evidence will already be gathered.

    Well, guess what? Police also commit crime. The same justification applies. If Flock is justified, this is justified.

    • cdrnsfan hour ago
      Why police would never abuse their power. /sarc
    • plagiarist2 hours ago
      No justification is required. Police visiting this person over completely legal public photography is an egregious violation of First Amendment rights.
      • NDlurker2 hours ago
        This was in Canada
        • devin2 hours ago
          A bit pedantic, don't you think? Canada has protections for speech, even if they aren't the "first amendment".
    • yolp53 hours ago
      > Well, guess what? Police also commit crime. The same justification applies. If Flock is justified, this is justified.

      In fantasy land maybe, in reality power determines justification.

      • Razengan3 hours ago
        Even taking the imbalance of guns and armor into account, citizens have more power, if they just realize it.

        Millions against, what, a couple hundred thousands?

        It's just that nobody wants to be the cannon fodder at the front that gets mowed down before the millions trample the thousands.. :')

        • AngryData2 hours ago
          It isn't that people wouldn't be willing to go on the front line, it's that any organization of people that could lead to a frontline forming gets immediate repression or violent response. People don't want to die on a frontline for those in the back if there is nobody in back, which requires organization. Organization that will by default be considered an authority challenge to all current governments, politicians, and wealthy and powerful.

          It is why everyone goes so hardline on socialist ideals and labor unions. Organization is required for people to accuratly project their power. And any organization of common people puts the powerful people at risk of being usurped from their position.

        • 2 hours ago
          undefined
      • uoaei3 hours ago
        Well, no. Your statement is isomorphic to "might makes right".

        Power determines rationalization. Justification is a moral question.

      • ahf8Aithaex7Nai2 hours ago
        > in reality power determines justification

        In fantasy land maybe, reality is more complex than can be summed up in a barroom cliché.

      • bjorn_identity3 hours ago
        [dead]
  • HelloUsername2 hours ago
    Discussed yesterday: "YouTuber Says Cops Visited Him After He Built a Flock-Style Camera to Track Cops (gizmodo.com)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50026555 356 comments
  • ljf3 hours ago
    I've often thought about a number plate reading dashcam app for citizens that would warn you of dangerous drivers around you, let people flag the cars they want to call out. Moderation would be a nightmare though, but I thought you could have to submit some sort of proof (recorded from. The dashcam) but that just increases the moderation overhead... Of course AI could be help and hinder.
    • razster2 hours ago
      You could allow the user to flag it and keep the alerts to only them. They would get the alert, they could add notes of what happened so when that plate shows again they will know. Maybe build it so that you can add friends to a group and share plate details. It's GOLD Jerry!

      But yeah moderation would be a nightmare still - I could see a ton of ways to abuse this. Criminals will figure it out as a source to track individuals, placing themselves in their known travel path, setup satellite spots to alert, that way for example if they're casing the joint they could have alerts when then individual is coming back.

      Great, now ppl are going to make this app and use it for bad, see what you did.

      • ssl-32 hours ago
        But I trust my friends. When my group tags an obnoxious driver's car and I'm alerted to it being nearby, then: That makes me feel safer.

        All I had to do was log in on Autora and make a little friends group for everyone to join, and they handle the rest. It doesn't cost us anything! It's so nice of them to provide this service for everyday people like us.

        I also signed up for some other groups I found on Facebook and those are pretty neat, too! I just do my regular driving like I always have, and every week they each drop a few dollars into my PayPal account. It feels great to make the world a little safer, and I haven't had to worry about paying for Disney+ for months now!

        #blessed #couponing #sidegigs

    • andy_ppp2 hours ago
      Yeah you can’t even trust video any more, I’m not sure if there’s anything you can do with people who want to game the system.
  • 2 hours ago
    undefined
  • Razengan3 hours ago
    Every law that lets police and politicians spy on citizens should have a corollary that lets citizens spy on police and politicians.
  • cs02rm02 hours ago
    I really detest the way surveillance seems to just increase without any democratic mandate.
  • ErroneousBoshan hour ago
    > “One of them [the officers] took the time to specifically mention how scary it would be for them, because people would be able to find out where they lived, when they got on their shift and what they were doing throughout the day, and that that type of powerful information could put them personally at risk for any bad apples that might want to track them down,”

    Yeah well, if you're not doing anything wrong you've nothing to worry about, eh?

  • bko3 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • lwansbrough3 hours ago
      So you’re going with: equating breaking the law by impersonating a police officer and reckless endangerment, to passive data collection with a camera? And not because it breaks the law, but because the police don’t like it?

      Very brave man, good for you.

      • bkoan hour ago
        There are things that cops are allowed to do (surveillance) that citizens are restricted to do.

        It's not complicated or some gotcha. I'm fine with police cameras that whose access is strictly controlled, monitored and used to fight crime, rather than some creep taking pictures of me and doing God knows what with it.

    • wongarsu3 hours ago
      Flock is however not a law enforcement agency. Legally they are no different from that YouTuber
      • bkoan hour ago
        This is Canada so there is no Flock. Try again.
    • nkrisc3 hours ago
      I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic but that’s not really comparable.

      Police do have privileges that ordinary citizens do not. That’s understood, and part of the reason they should be held to a higher standard of conduct than ordinary citizens.

      Using their emergency lights and ignoring traffic rules in order to get to a real emergency is one of those privileges.

      Widespread, automated mass surveillance is not one of those privileges.

      • bkoan hour ago
        Yes, they are held to a higher standard. That's why the surveillance tools police rely on are strictly controlled and monitored, unlike what this guy is doing.

        So it appears we agree.

  • 3 hours ago
    undefined
  • 3 hours ago
    undefined