116 pointsby basilikum2 hours ago16 comments
  • zensecurea few seconds ago
    Go linger in the ircv3 channel for a week or two, the answer is yes.

    Mostly complainers who would rather see IRC stay the same. Right now one of them is complaining the author is a vibe coder, as if that somehow makes the critique that IRC continues to be far behind everything else less real.

  • prologican hour ago
    Does IRCv3 need new leadership to continue to drive it forward? Over at Parley/Ahoy (https://git.mills.io/prologic/parley https://git.mills.io/fastidious/ahoy) we've managed to create a federated decentralized IRC chat experience with a Discord/Slack-esque feel but true to both IRC / IRCv3 (Ahoy being a fully featured IRCv3 client).
  • jamesponddotco7 minutes ago
    I have been using SourceHut’s IRC client to access it for a while, but never quite found a good iOS client, since Goguma is just the Android client compiled for iOS.

    I wonder if I can find the time to build a native iOS IRC client that follows Liquid Glass, and works as well as Goguma. Not many people would use it, but it’d scratch my own itch, as they say.

    The protocol is so simple[1] that it shouldn’t take that long or be that hard[2], I think.

    [1]: Which is the beauty of it, ofc.

    [2]: Famous last words.

  • Retr0id32 minutes ago
    I think the main problem with IRCv3 is that there are a million optional extensions (see https://ircv3.net/software/clients for a feature support matrix of popular clients)

    This can get especially confusing when people on different clients have divergent views of the same conversation. e.g. some can see the emoji reacts, others can't. some can see "replies", others can't.

    • badsectoracula7 minutes ago
      I visited the site to see what the extensions are and at first i thought that there might be a few of them but it doesn't look that bad.

      Then i noticed the horizontal scrollbar :-P

    • progval30 minutes ago
      Emojis and reacts are the only extensions that can cause people to have a meaningfully different view. It's part of why it took so long to ratify replies, and reacts still are not ratified.

      We're also discussing ways for servers to provide a fallback to clients which don't support them.

  • kristopolous2 hours ago
    If you look at "old" internet: fidonet telnet bitnet ftp fsp wais netnews whois++ gopher relaynet ... i mean irc is one of the only ones that is still used, and mostly as it was 35 years ago. Pretty impressive.

    People love knocking on IRC but people are still on it, still using it...

    • frumiousircan hour ago
      HTTP is also still somewhat popular.

      But, seriously, that got me curious. There are many protocols from that early era that are still with us today. NTP, DNS, SMTP, IMAP, BGP, SNMP, NFS, ICMP. If you allow the 1990's as counting as "old" we can add SSH and SSL, DHCP, LDAP.

    • countWSSan hour ago
      Actually, its just inertia and lack of reliable forum hosting, the actual "killer app" that replaced volatile and unarchivable chat content, but no one learned from it and people flocked to Discord, which is even more hostile to archiving/scanning chat history.
      • Ekaros30 minutes ago
        I am starting to wonder is archiving or scanning history even possible with how hostile internet has become. Especially when so many tech companies will scan and download same content countless times without single care of damage or cost the cause...

        Just imagine hosting that history on your instance for users and then some vibecoder without care in his work starts scanning it automatically every 5 seconds just in case it might have changed...

    • jstummbillig36 minutes ago
      Everything decentralized will keep being used. Stuff is sticky.

      More illuminating: To what (relative) extend? And what's the trajectory?

      Looking at Google Trends: https://trends.google.com/explore?q=%2Fm%2F03t2s%2C%2Fg%2F11...

    • terminalbraidan hour ago
      Yeah, but the major upgrades for things like telnet and ftp were adding appropriate encryption layers and improved authentication to include things like certificates. IRC shoehorned those into the connections awkwardly but it's still not often mandatory and registration is painful.

      Also usenet is still very popular but mostly used for file sharing.

      • kristopolousan hour ago
        Yes. usenet, however, used to be social media. It was like text-only reddit.
        • cowlevel12 minutes ago
          Still is, but a bit empty. https://eternal-september.org/
        • hollowonepl22 minutes ago
          I don’t believe it was or continually is limited to text only, but I do believe we had netiquette back then which helped to reconsider spamming internet with media and other decorators, only to have it all forgotten 72h later
      • movsxan hour ago
        What about the registration you find so painful? It takes a single command to register a nick, if that's what you mean.
        • dijitan hour ago
          In his defence, its a single command, if you know the command
          • terminalbraid44 minutes ago
            This, which is not uniform across servers, and has more work if you want to do certificate-based auth. Additionally getting a nick cloak is good opsec and also extremely not uniform.
    • zokyan hour ago
      FTP is still used quite a bit. For what it’s useful for, nothing has come close to replacing it.
      • networked29 minutes ago
        What do you mean, "for what it’s useful for"? For me, WebDAV has replaced FTP where SFTP hasn't.
      • cowlevel37 minutes ago
        SFTP? Don't confuse it with FTP or FTPS - SFTP is a different protocol which runs on top of SSH.
        • Bender32 minutes ago
          They are not confused. A lot of companies still use FTP internally and for B2B. Many people would be very uncomfortable if they knew how much companies including banks, payment systems, etc... and governments still depended on FTP and clear text authentication. That's even before broaching the subject of which of the applications and daemons in use are being actively maintained.
      • kristopolousan hour ago
        like in enterprise? the browsers stopped shipping with ftp support I think 5 years ago.
        • zoky34 minutes ago
          Hosting files to be downloaded via web browser isn’t what it’s useful for. If you’re going to do that, you might as well use… a web server.

          FTP is useful for bidirectional file exchange over the Internet. There are other protocols, but they all have drawbacks. SFTP can be used for similar functionality, but it requires users to have SSH access. SMB and NFS don’t really work so well over the Internet and are a pain to configure for multiple users. For setting up accounts dedicated to transferring files, you really can’t beat FTP (or really FTPS, which is just FTP over SSL).

        • terminalbraidan hour ago
          You might be surprised to learn there are dedicated ftp clients.
          • kristopolousan hour ago
            sarcasm?
            • TeMPOraLan hour ago
              Don't know of a client with that name, but there are plenty of others.
      • charcircuit42 minutes ago
        HTTPS has largely replaced it. Pretty much all files uploaded or downloaded from the internet is going to be done via HTTPS and not FTP.
        • mathgeek39 minutes ago
          Only if you ignore the banking industry.
          • thiht31 minutes ago
            Fair point, but I would assume the AWS S3 by itself is bigger than the FTP/SFTP traffic globally including banks. No idea if it’s true, and I’m not sure we can get reliable stats on this
    • nmltan hour ago
      But as IRC has a social network component, it's more of a social thing than anything inherent to IRC.
    • RyJonesan hour ago
      I'm here looking for other telenet (not telnet) oldheads, finding nobody.
    • uncletan hour ago
      what about SMTP?
      • kristopolousan hour ago
        I thought of that ... you could put it in the list but I wouldn't unless you're talking cron. I mean when I started it was like mail bob@froggy.ucla.edu and bob would open up pine or emacs and not get any spam or have to do anything crazy and we'd have a conversation.

        that modality is long dead. we still have email but it's not that same ... I however could take mirc from like 1995 and still use everything.

    • dist-epoch2 hours ago
      COBOL is still used 50 years later.
  • neals2 hours ago
    Makes me wonder if moving away from discord back to IRC would be a fun move. But I think we'd miss mobile access and accounts on different devices maybe? Any thoughts?
    • pkal2 hours ago
      I consciously use IRC like that: I don't have a bouncer, and connect only when I feel bored and want to see what is going in some channels (nowadays mostly just #emacs on Libera). I can only follow the conversation when I am online and there, and when I leave there is nothing to catch up to. In some sense it is like a digital third-space as oppose to a permanent dual presence that I have to share my attention with. Depending on your use-case this is not ideal, but for me it is a nice, relaxing addition to a lazy weekend evening when I have nothing better to do.
    • trickypr2 hours ago
      There are irc clients that work on mobile, like this one from the original author of sway: https://codeberg.org/emersion/goguma

      It’s just they need a bouncer (an always online irc server you run) for things like push notifications (and chat history on servers without the chat history extension).

      Bouncers (and some IRC v3 extensions on newer servers) allow you to be logged in to the same account from different devices.

      I’ve also had some fun writing a bridge from discord to irc for some personal discord servers (but it uses some account impersonation hijinks that make it impractical for other to use).

    • cowlevel36 minutes ago
      IMO those are the main reasons IRC isn't still used. It's basically only usable on a desktop or always-stationary laptop, or with a bouncer which is obviously expensive to set up and doesn't provide a good user experience.
    • mgaunard2 hours ago
      in general discord has a very bad app and usability, irc regardless of client is a clear upgrade
      • jeltzan hour ago
        Very bad is pretty harsh for the possibly least bad chat app that I have used. I don't like the centralization on Discord but the reason it is popular is because their app is better than the competition.
        • OccamsMirror30 minutes ago
          imo Telegram is the least bad chat app that I've used. Discord has a lot of UX and performance issues.
    • javier22 hours ago
      really need the simple voice chat for me to use it.
    • rylando2 hours ago
      I mean, it seemed mobile enough for that tv presenter to get caught on a plane being a pedo on IRC
    • yieldcrv2 hours ago
      why wouldn’t mobile access work? Its just a protocol
      • deweyan hour ago
        Yes, but compared to "modern" apps IRC is very rudimentary and you would not get messages if you "close the app". You always have to run some secondary infrastructure like a bouncer to get offline messages or see what happened while you were away.

        I know that's not the fault of the protocol itself, but that's always one of the biggest hurdle for IRC adoption when everyone is used to just open apps and see the full history at all times.

      • henghengan hour ago
        The protocol needs ugly extensions to have a variety of devices plug into the same user account. For me back in the day this was an ssh session running the IRC client in a screen, and it was no worse than whatever else was available.
      • cowlevel34 minutes ago
        Mobile devices are different devices with different constraints. The main blockers are intermittent connectivity and the need to save battery life.
  • rie_t2 hours ago
    An IRC client with an extension for image/video embeds and a voice chat (with video/screenshare support) would go far.
    • deweyan hour ago
      Many GUI IRC clients do image / video embedding, even 10 years ago. Voice chat / video / screenshare is probably not a good fit unless you run some kind of secondary infrastructure like Jitsi and make it look like it's part of the client. Doesn't seem like a great fit though.
      • rie_tan hour ago
        Yeah it'd need to be some kind of secondary infrastructure - I don't see it being part of any official IRC spec any time soon. But it would absolutely make IRC more appealing to the "average" user.
        • deweyan hour ago
          I like IRC, and I am online all day on various servers, for nostalgia reasons mostly, but I think everyone knows it's dated, had its time and will slowly fizzle out if we like it or not.

          I think the main problem there is that there's not really any motivation to build that on top of a simple protocol like IRC. The strength of the protocol is that it's distributed, easy to understand, text based and lightweight and I'd guess most current IRC users are people who use it for a very long time already.

          Tucking all these mainstream features that people are used to this days to get feature parity with any other competitor (Slack / Teams / Discord / Matrix etc.) will not make IRC more popular, it will make the protocol more complicated and fragmented.

    • pkalan hour ago
      I know it is a different protocol, but doesn't Mumble provide this to some degree?
      • gsichan hour ago
        only voice and subpar text chat.
    • movsxan hour ago
      I feel like this is completely missing the point of what IRC is.

      I appreciate its text-only nature and would never want to see image/video embeds and/or voice chat in my client.

      • smokeyfish42 minutes ago
        I agree. Part of the beauty is the limitations, the simplicity and transient nature of it.
    • cowlevel33 minutes ago
      Give Matrix a try.
  • mxmilkiiban hour ago
    I've ended up managing to vibe an IRC client for Twitch over the last couple of weeks to make following the sometimes flood of the [Hasan] 'Piker Broadcasting Service' stream chat a bit easier;

    https://hasanabi.neocities.org/?theme=nightshade

  • dewey2 hours ago
    Some of the actors that are listed on that page already implement many of the v3 features (Like https://www.irccloud.com), so it's not really something that will come with a big bang and we have to wait for a release, it's just that not all clients support it yet.
  • meethkr2 hours ago
    Maybe with all the age verification spyware around its time I finally went back to IRC chat.
    • 9dev2 hours ago
      That’s just nostalgia. You wouldn’t miss bouncers, worrying about presence, multiple devices, file sharing, and more.
      • dewey2 hours ago
        I've been using https://www.irccloud.com for years, it takes care of all these things and also has an app / push notifications. It's still IRC, but it takes care of a lot of the annoying parts of it that made it feel dated.
      • mgaunard2 hours ago
        I never worry about presence in any form of chat. I don't care if people are there when I message them; it's up to them to pick up my messages at their convenience.
        • jeltzan hour ago
          Which is never if the person you messaged did not have a bouncer or their bouncer crashed.
      • gsichan hour ago
    • Balinaresan hour ago
      Some never left. Notoriously, some bigtech companies have an internal IRC network for tech discussions because that's one communication system that you can rely on to stay up even during catastrophic outages.
      • smokeyfish40 minutes ago
        That's exactly what my tech teams did during outages of other channels. Spin up an ircd and carry on.
  • pjmlpan hour ago
    No mIRC on the list, oh well.
  • AlienRobot28 minutes ago
    I wish IRC supported images. It's weird that to share a screenshot I need a chat platform that also support VOIP when I just want to paste an image in the chat.
  • knorker39 minutes ago
    On this topic: https://robustirc.net/

    It's a server side change, robustifying the server-to-server links and its effects on connected clients.

  • 7bitan hour ago
    IRC was great. But I don't think it can bounce back with the alternatives that we now have. A focussed effort to get Matrix working, or any of the open source alternatives would be better. Of course, people invest their time in what they think is fun and that is fine. But the already existing alternatives provide what people need and want today, so IRCv3 will have it infinitely harder.
    • terminalbraidan hour ago
      > A focussed effort to get Matrix working

      At what point do we say matrix isn't going to work? It's been like this for years. It's so overengineered on an immutable chat history on a blockchain it has crossed the line into "way too expensive to run and maintain for streams of cat pictures and memes". Worse is better.

      • broodbucketa few seconds ago
        I don't get this, it is working. It's largely replaced IRC in open source spaces. It's not going to penetrate the mainstream but it's fine for what it is and people do use it all the time.
  • dist-epoch2 hours ago
    if you look at the linked roadmap, most issues are from 2020/2021, with one from 2017, when Discord appeared.

    So yeah, we are going to have the Dyson swarm before this is done.

  • nubinetwork2 hours ago
    IRC is dead to me, you can thank Andrew Lee (of Freenode infamy) for that one.
    • dewey2 hours ago
      Isn't exactly the beauty of IRC that one person doing something to one node in the network isn't affecting the rest at all?
      • nubinetwork2 hours ago
        I can't be bothered to sign up for both libera and oftc. When everything was on freenode, you didn't have to jump through any hoops just to ask a question.
        • deweyan hour ago
          You don't need to "sign up". You just open your client, connect to the server and ask your question.
    • cowlevel32 minutes ago
      all of the Freenode staff just rebranded as Libera Chat, bought a new domain and continued on as usual.
    • gsichan hour ago
      Your loss.