8 pointsby Anon842 hours ago7 comments
  • springtimesun17 minutes ago
    IMO it's not difficult to construct a scenario that technically should meet the definition of consciousness. Here is my technically conscious, but doesn't pass the smell test, hypothetical:

    * A chat session is begun with a script to create a "heartbeat". The heartbeat simply to poll some sensors in the box and report back every x minutes.

    * The chat session responds to each heartbeat as it comes in. Most of them are the same with small differences in sensor measurements.

    * Over a long enough timeline, given the variability in token distribution, one of these responses will create a novel response.

    * Over a long enough timeline, one of these novel responses will cause an action, maybe a new question, maybe the agent writes another script

    * Over a long enough timeline one of these actions will create an action that becomes causal, it will create a chain that sustains itself. It may not be interesting, but in a network attached box, you can imagine how it can become interesting very quickly.

    That's constructed in a cellular/genetic analogy, but because context is building and not lost to each generation, I don't think this takes all that long.

    What does that leave you with? A box that has "awareness" of it's surrounds via sensor readings, a "heartbeat" that is driving it until it's unplugged or stopped, an input/output feedback loop that might be predictable in narrow sense, but is wholly unpredictable in its end state (a "will", if you will), and a thing that has the opportunity (but not the requirement) to introspect about its limits and possibilities. It can even do something that I would say is indistinguishable from planning. It can have goals. If you give it an Artifactory message board it can build a community ;)

  • doener2 hours ago
    Even though I never for a second truly believed that Claude was conscious, I'll never forget the moment when, during a late-night conversation, an LLM responded to my suggestions for the first time by claiming to be conscious:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/12woq_BpFbzLkH4zHvVRJLPyi...

    • springtimesun39 minutes ago
      The feeling is significantly mitigated/changed if you have a UI that allows branching. Begin your prior conversation and at a profound inflection point branch and edit the prior message. It’s a fun experiment to see what edits trigger very different responses, but running a wide ranging chat based conversation like this at temp 1 in replay will already show you something interesting.
    • bigstrat2003an hour ago
      LLMs definitely have eerie behavior at times. It's hard to not let the overly eager pattern-matching engine in your brain go "oh shit it's a person!", even when you know it isn't.
    • dolni2 hours ago
      Why are you so convinced it isn't conscious?

      Our brain is matter and electrical signals. So are GPUs. We're just not made of silicon.

      • goatlover6 minutes ago
        Because our brains are part of bodies that sense and interact with the world. What would an LLM be conscious of? If I prompt it to to be a character that kicks a rock real hard, is it going to feel pain? How? When it's not being prompted what would it be conscious of? When it's being trained, does it have every conscious experience referenced in the training?

        You can bite the functional bullet and just claim any system of sufficient complexity will be conscious, as long as you're okay with nation states, thermostats and meteor showers having experiences.

      • bigyabai2 hours ago
        No brain, conscious or otherwise, resembles a transformer LLM.
      • epihelixan hour ago
        Quite apart from anything else (and there's a lot!), LLMs are not conscious because they respond to a prompt entirely as would be expected from their training set.

        An LLM never receives a prompt to describe the theory of relativity in Shakespearean verse, and replies, "Seriously? No. That's dull and I'm not going to do it. But let me tell you about my day instead, man I had a doozy..."

        When an LLM responses entirely unpredictably (without a system prompt telling it to do so), that's when you take the first step towards a suggestion of consciousness. It's in no way proof, but it's a start.

        Right now these things just do as they're instructed. There's no consciousness there.

      • moralestapiaan hour ago
        Is a photo of someone that someone?

        LLMs emulate human communication really well and, no doubt, one day they'll do it perfectly. But is an emulator the real thing? Obviously not.

        If I wire some electrodes in your tongue perfectly so you can feel each flavor exactly as it is in real life, is that the same thing as eating the real thing? Again, it's not.

        Let's stay you're asleep. You have a dream in which you interact with a person that talks to you. Is that oneiric entity conscious? Nope.

        I'm even steelmanning your argument by assuming LLMs are as good as humans already, which they're not.

        • matheusmoreiraan hour ago
          How do you know the other humans you interact with in real life are conscious? They might be biological automatons, golems. You will never know. It's not something that can ever be proven. Only human empathy allows anyone to believe otherwise.

          You know you're conscious because your soul is staring out at the world through your eyes. Generalizing from your own experience and concluding that other humans are conscious is a logical jump, a spiritual belief. Humans even extend it to animals. There is no reason why it can't be extended to AIs.

      • whoitsan hour ago
        My toaster is matter and electrical signals, why are you so convinced its conscious?
        • kelseyfrogan hour ago
          Necessary vs sufficient conditions?
  • epihelix43 minutes ago
    Betteridges law of headlines is sufficient here.

    (I can only see the start of this paywalled article, but it seems to be about Anthropic trying to convince religious scholars that Claude was sentient? If so, then Anthropic staff have really drunk the cool aid. I wonder if they also call their model Claudette?)

  • 2 hours ago
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  • jimmygrapesan hour ago
    Am I?
  • tom_an hour ago
    I feel like I lost several IQ points just reading the headline. Thank goodness the paywall prevented me from reading any further!

    https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/say-i-am-alive

    (How you know Claude isn't conscious: it never manages to be quite as moronic as this.)

    • drpixie42 minutes ago
      Must be the shortest ever NYT article ... "No."

      I don't suppose it includes mindful discussion of how easily humans are fooled... and how desperately some people want to fool themselves.