87 pointsby danielfoster5 hours ago13 comments
  • water-data-dude3 hours ago
    You know, there's probably fewer perverse incentives with a government run dating service. Obviously I can imagine ways it could suck, but when I compare them to how commercial dating services are run it's hard to see how they could do a _worse_ job.
    • pcthrowaway34 minutes ago
      If people are oriented towards traditional relationships, then pairing people up younger probably leads to higher overall fertility rate in the population, so I could see governments with existentially declining fertility rates (read: almost all of them) taking an interest in actually providing a successful service here (unlike the commercial dating apps).

      Of course, a lack of a match is not the only thing that prevents people from having kids, but I'm curious what the impact of an optimal matching service would be on fertility rates.

      edit: I think governments might do well to provide funding for dating apps (whether privately or publicly owned) based on how many matches from the app actually lead to children. Completely flip the classical incentives on their head. Should be easy enough to ask if newborns were a product of a participating app as part of the birth certification process.

      • 48484884845 minutes ago
        No amount of anything will make a woman with options settle with anything but 6'5" trust fund finance blue eyes.

        Fertility is going to 0 and that's a good thing, we need a fresh slate.

      • phreeza24 minutes ago
        Nice idea in principle but too long a time horizon for typical corporations to care about, sadly.
        • ant6n12 minutes ago
          Dating Apps don’t need to be corporate. You could make an app for a whole country with a company of less than 10 people.
    • SwtCyberan hour ago
      The nice thing is that the government has no reason to keep you swiping forever
      • brabel18 minutes ago
        Its only motivator is to get you and someone else to start making babies as soon as possible. Which is often what the users want too.
    • sergiotapia2 hours ago
      Aren't commercial dating sites as a whole summarized as:

      Keep supply of women high because men will pay anything for a chance?

      I am very curious how this will be changed in this government platform. Maybe it won't LOL

      • SwtCyberan hour ago
        I think that's a bit too reductive, but the incentive mismatch is real. Commercial apps generally benefit from people staying on the app; a government service theoretically benefits if people pair off and leave.
      • some_furry2 hours ago
        It's also a market for lemons: Every match that leads to a long-term, exclusive relationship is two customers gone for good.
        • Bluesteinan hour ago
          It's a self-depleting market. The optimum is, a la Big Pharma, to keep 'em in "dating" limbo.-
          • mschuster9135 minutes ago
            > It's a self-depleting market.

            On the other side you got a fresh supply on both sides from kids growing up to be adults and from adults divorcing and even if your matchmaking is perfect and divorce culturally shamed against, people still die which leaves widow(er)s behind, of whom a certain amount will want a new relationship.

    • throw930839009an hour ago
      Autocratic goverment gets all your personal info, and chooses a mate for you. This is beyond incentives, it is just perverse!
      • Gareth321an hour ago
        Honestly, the levels of desperation and despair I'm seeing in the hellscape that is modern dating, I think a lot of people would sign up for this. I probably would if I were single. It's very similar to how matchmakers work, and they're popular all over the world, and have been for millennia. They're an unbiased and impartial judge and coach. We all have enormous biases and weaknesses in so many ways, and we could all do with help to better ourselves.

        The important distinction here is no one is forced to marry anyone. This is entirely optional.

        • throw930839009an hour ago
          > desperation and despair

          Desperation is from government, because many people just checked out. There are many nicer activities, such as hiking.

          > unbiased and impartial judge and coach.

          Gov has super strong biases, just the way they punish (or not punish at all) different groups, for the same crime.

          > forced to marry anyone.

          In every practical way you will be forced to marry. Common law marriage, alimony...

          • Gareth321an hour ago
            I am also pretty disillusioned with government right now, and I share your views on common law marriage and alimony, but I see this as one of the few things a government is doing right.
      • stoltzmann29 minutes ago
        >Autocratic goverment gets all your personal info

        They got your birth record, your education records, your bank account details, your employment record. They can write themselves a warrant to dig through your life. The government already knows all this.

        >chooses a mate for you.

        You're not forced to marry whoever you match with in the app.

        >This is beyond incentives, it is just perverse!

        ok this is just slop

  • dominicq2 hours ago
    > In short, stable matches mean nothing when nobody is committed and the best options might exist outside of the matchmaking pool

    This is wrong. Stable matches still mean something, and in fact probably mean quite a lot.

    You are given a much better match than a random pairing. If you still aren't interested, you can decline. If you go on a date and it doesn't work out, you can decline.

    Nothing forces you to use this process, it is just an offer of a significantly better than random matching to what you might prefer.

    It doesn't even need to account for preferences not covered by the questionnaire.

  • jjmarr3 hours ago
    Gale-Shapley, used in this service, has the property that one side ("proposing" side) is guaranteed their most advantageous stable match while the other side is guaranteed their worst possible stable match.

    I've never heard this discussed or mentioned as a drawback because it's Nobel Prize winning and "stable" is a shorthand for "fair". Even though there's many unique stable matches that each offer participants different utilities even if individual participants don't have incentives to change their pairing.

    In practice, the more powerful party seems to be the proposing side, e.g. hospitals are the "proposing side" when using Gale-Shapeley to match w/ med school students and get their ideal students.

    I wonder if anyone who works on dating apps knows if men or women are the preferred side? And is there any research on stable matching that ensures equity (or ideally arbitrary distribution of utility) between the two groups in their stable matches?

    • Sniffnoy6 minutes ago
      > I've never heard this discussed or mentioned as a drawback because it's Nobel Prize winning and "stable" is a shorthand for "fair".

      You've never seen this discussed as a drawback? I've seen it mentioned quite a bit. For instance, it came up on the last big thread on this just the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49915825

    • Scaevolus2 hours ago
      Given how women initiate most divorces, it's probably best to set it up so they are the proposing side.

      But this isn't raw Gale-Shapley-- the participants aren't ranking all hundreds/thousands of others. In particular, the preference matrix is based on identical mutual compatibility scores, so there's a unique stable solution (not multiple stable ones!), and there's no "side" that benefits, since the solution is identical no matter who does the "proposing".

      • brabel13 minutes ago
        If stats from dating websites are to be believed, all women tend to flock on all the same tiny percentage of men and ignore the rest. If women initiate, I’m afraid you will see only a few men getting any pairing. Men are likely to be less picky as we see in the wild.
      • jjmarran hour ago
        > the preference matrix is based on identical mutual compatibility scores

        Is that modeling the problem correctly? It seems pretty rare for two partners to have equal amounts of love for each other.

        • michaelt33 minutes ago
          If the goal is successful relationships, then probably?

          If I have 10/10 love for Halle Berry, and she has 4/10 love for my Jeff-Bezos-looking ass, it's the 4/10 that's going to dictate whether we live happily ever after. So our mutual compatibility is probably well below 10/10.

        • boxedan hour ago
          I don't think you can measure love at all, and certainly not guess it based on some info you can type into your phone, so that's rules out before we even get started.
      • SwtCyberan hour ago
        [dead]
    • jmalicki2 hours ago
      Are there keywords to search for to read more? This is the first time I've heard about this! This is super interesting, what are a few well known other stable matches people deeper into this talk about?
      • jjmarran hour ago
        The set of stable matches for a given problem seems to be called the lattice of stable matching.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_of_stable_matchings

        The problem is it's a lattice and not fully ordered. There are cases where there are two or more pairings that are worse for women and better for men, but we cannot determine which pairing is superior to the other overall.

    • 2 hours ago
      undefined
    • SwtCyberan hour ago
      [dead]
  • SwtCyberan hour ago
    I think the algorithm is almost a distraction here. Gale-Shapley works nicely when preferences are reasonably well-defined and participants are actually committed to the matching process. Dating has neither property. People are terrible at predicting who they'll have chemistry with, and everyone has outside options.
  • tommica2 hours ago
    A very interesting solution to the problem. Surely this data will not be repurposed, right?

    But if it helps likeminded people to find each other, then it absolutely has some value.

  • jharohit3 hours ago
    person previously dating in singapore - this is awesome! wish i had
  • ChrisArchitect4 hours ago
    Related:

    Singapore govt dating app uses Gale-Shapley stable marriage algorithm

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49906432

  • podocarp2 hours ago
    Entirely dismissing how important looks, vibes, personality are in relationships. Not even dating -- if someone smells, you're not going to be incentives to make friends with them. This seems to me to just be trodding the same pseudoscientific route as MBTI personality tests, trying to condense a person into a list of multiple choice questions. That will never work. No algorithm can do it. Social interaction is not a solved game.
    • dominicq2 hours ago
      The point isn't to be a complete solution to social interaction, the point is to provide a significantly better than random sampling and pairing.

      You can then still apply your usual filters afterwards, such as smell, looks, vibes.

    • eternauta3k2 hours ago
      It's a shame that they deduce your ranking just from the questions. I think the algorithm would be perfect if paired with a manual ranking by the user.
    • vachina2 hours ago
      There are obvious deal breakers, and then as you grow older you develop “taste”.

      These are well defined criteria which can be queried upon.

      However the ranking only works if both sides are honest.

  • MiroslavPokorny2 hours ago
    Welcome to Korea 2.0
  • sublinear4 hours ago
    Interesting that when I ctrl-f the linked article and the previous discussion (463 comments), not once is the word "trust" found.

    That's the actual problem, though (a lack of it)! Above all else, you'll probably overlook a lot and still commit long-term to someone you can trust.

    • killingtime743 hours ago
      Trust for the first date or long term? For the first date you already must supply your government id
  • tonyhart72 hours ago
    I think this is good, yes there can be improve but the idea is good

    especially for country like korea and japan ???? Yeah bro they need it

  • thrownawaysz2 hours ago
    I thought incels are white right wingers, first time I see this term in a non-white context. Southern Poverty Law Center is listing them as a hate group for example so by definition incels can’t be black.
  • thisrod3 hours ago
    There is an amusing irony in this approach to marriage promotion: who isn't already married in Singapore? I've been told that the city's 30 year old gay and lesbian crowd is treated to a lot of fancy dates at public expense.
    • ValentineC3 hours ago
      > There is an amusing irony in this approach to marriage promotion: who isn't already married in Singapore?

      I don't understand your question.

    • tantalor3 hours ago
      The govt pays for the date??
    • maplant3 hours ago
      honestly that seems like a great way to spend public funds