174 pointsby z-mach95 hours ago22 comments
  • mimorigasaka4 hours ago
    The people behind this are a real (if silly) student organization at UChicago and Northwestern campaigning for the legalization of onion futures trading. Sometimes they will aggressively hand out free onions to passerby on campus. It's quite entertaining.

    They have a website also: https://onionfutures.org

    • a11ce4 hours ago
      Hi! I'm the proprietor of onionfutures.com. I'm actually not a member of UChicago for Our Futures and came up with the idea independently, but we've since connected and they handle our Chicago deliveries.
      • teaearlgraycold3 hours ago
        I can confirm this person is the owner of onionfutures.com
      • what4 hours ago
        Are you really charging $9/onion? I get upset when Safeway charges $2/lb when I can get onions for a quarter that price.
        • a11ce3 hours ago
          Yes, it's primarily a novelty/art thing. But I do actually deliver the onions. Prices vary.
        • luma3 hours ago
          Priced to what the market can bear
        • IncreasePosts3 hours ago
          Maybe it's a really big onion
          • bryanrasmussen2 hours ago
            maybe it tastes more oniony than most onions, these onions are the essential onions of which other onions are mere shadows.
            • dcuthbertson16 minutes ago
              It's the mischief caused by shadow onions lurking in dark corners of the market bins that make me cry.
      • Drupon3 hours ago
        [flagged]
    • Drupon3 hours ago
      I'm a young naive lad curious about this, have UChicago economics professors and/or grad students ever done something that might be considered like, idk, a crime against humanity stain on one's soul, in the past couple of decades?
  • cwal374 hours ago
    For those who don’t know:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act

    (which also banned box office receipt futures)

    A fun thing is to go on FRED and make a graph with prices from onions and, say, corn to see the differences in volatility.

    • lukan2 hours ago
      So this is genuine free market activism?
  • Barbing4 hours ago
    > FAQ

    >Is this legal?

    >Yes, to the best of our knowledge. 7 U.S. Code § 13-1 prohibits "contract[s] for the sale of [...] onions for future delivery [...] on or subject to the rules of any board of trade in the United States." The San Francisco Onion Futures Company is not a board of trade, defined as an "organized exchange or other trading facility". We sell contracts privately to individual buyers, and do not operate any exchange or secondary market.

    Performance art against that law?

    Also November onions are an absolute steal compared to the adjacent months!

    • dougSF703 hours ago
      I believe 10/15 is a huge harvest day for Vidalia(??) Onions so crop will be scarce leading up to the harvest. As my multi-player free farming simulator has shown me. https://farm-mp.frontpageintelligence.ai/
    • hyperhello4 hours ago
      > The San Francisco Onion Futures Company is not a board of trade, defined as an "organized exchange or other trading facility".

      I hate to argue but then what would they define this as, if not an organized exchange or other trading facility?

      • riffraff4 hours ago
        I think their point is there's no "peer to peer" trading so it's not an exchange. You're always contracting futures with them, so it's more like a vegetables seller than a trading facility.
        • a11ce4 hours ago
          Exactly right. You're able to privately resell contract keys (and the buyer can then re-issue a new key with their delivery info, voiding the old one), but onionfutures.com doesn't facilitate it.
          • altmanaltman3 hours ago
            I mean, it kind of does, though, no? Since it is backing the contract in the first place? Why else would anyone buy those contracts if they didn't know they have value provided by onionfutures.com in the first place? Why can't I just sell a fake key, claim it'll work, and make unlimited money this way if that wasn't the case?

            The specific laws do not actually ban the transfer of those contracts (tbf this is very complex and depends on your reading). And yes they do not facilitate the trading of the instruments in the secondary market but they absolutely facilitate the instruments themselves otherwise there cannot be a secondary market without any backers of the instruments.

            • a11ce3 hours ago
              See FBT's comment below, it's about matching or being on both sides of the trade.
      • FBT4 hours ago
        7 USC § 1a(37) defines an "organized exchange" as

        > [A] trading facility that— (A) permits trading— (i) by or on behalf of a person that is not an eligible contract participant; or (ii) by persons other than on a principal-to-principal basis; or (B) has adopted (directly or through another nongovernmental entity) rules that— (i) govern the conduct of participants, other than rules that govern the submission of orders or execution of transactions on the trading facility; and (ii) include disciplinary sanctions other than the exclusion of participants from trading.

        And 7 USC § 1a(51)(A) defines a "trading facility" as

        > [A] person or group of persons that constitutes, maintains, or provides a physical or electronic facility or system in which multiple participants have the ability to execute or trade agreements, contracts, or transactions— (i) by accepting bids or offers made by other participants that are open to multiple participants in the facility or system; or (ii) through the interaction of multiple bids or multiple offers within a system with a pre-determined non-discretionary automated trade matching and execution algorithm.

        (7 USC § 1a(51)(B) then follows with some exceptions to that definition.)

        In short—an "organized exchange" is defined as a type of "trading facility". To count as a trading facility", whether of the "organized exchange" type or not, you must either accept bids or offers from other participants yourself or else deterministically match and execute those bids and offers.

      • quirkot4 hours ago
        Legal defense is basically "nuh uh"
  • haakon4 hours ago
    Since this may be a legal gray area, they should host it on a Tor onion site.
    • thedrexster3 hours ago
      oooo, that's a missed opportunity
  • shoo4 hours ago
    US Department of Agriculture publishes a national potato & onion report (issued daily!):

    https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/fvdidnop.pdf

    Readers may wish to skip ahead to page 4, where onions are discussed.

  • Reason0774 hours ago
    Are these contract prices really "per onion"? Or are they actually per pound or per kg? Up to $9.39 seems very expensive if it's really the price for a single onion.

    I thought maybe they're some sort of special exotic onion variety, but I don't see anything to suggest that.

    • a11ce4 hours ago
      They are per (normal (sometimes organic) yellow) onion. Prices vary.

      (It's primarily a novelty/art thing. But I do actually deliver the onions.)

      • kolinkoan hour ago
        Love it, reminds me of early days of crypto.

        How do you decide upon a price?

      • viccis3 hours ago
        [flagged]
  • z-mach93 hours ago
    Looking forward to my 2 onions in November! Anyone have some good recipes?
    • alehrs3 hours ago
      Search for italian “soffritto” and “ragù alla bolognese”
    • viccis3 hours ago
      [flagged]
  • joegibbs4 hours ago
    Why was the law against onion futures passed in the first place? Couldn’t the same scheme be done with garlic, or sweet potatoes, or turnips or something?
    • pjc502 hours ago
      Because American lawmakers are weirdly specific brainless creatures. This is how you get all those laws named after individuals like Megan, and my other specific fave, the Video Rental Records Privacy Act.

      Shall we address the general question of privacy, or just close the particular breach that affected a congressman? You know it's going to be the latter.

    • chirau4 hours ago
      Because Vincent Kosuga.
    • gostsamo4 hours ago
      A guy cornered the market in the fifties, caused a scandal, they made a special exception.
      • joegibbs3 hours ago
        But what I’m saying is, why did they only cover onions? I don’t think there’s anything stopping someone from cornering the market in other commodities just as easily
        • weakened_malloc2 hours ago
          Because the size of the market was/is so small that you're actually able to corner it. Oil or Treasury futures are far too big that no single person could ever corner it.
          • microtherionan hour ago
            Though the Hunt brothers made a pretty good run at the Silver market in 1980.
            • defrostan hour ago
              China went all in on rare earth concentrate processing, taking the environmental hits that no one else wanted to touch.

              That paid off in a concentrated lock on the bulk of rare earth applications.

      • shawn_w3 hours ago
        Two guys. At one point bags of onions were being sold for less than the value of the bags they were in...

        They also got onion farmers to buy back onions they'd already sold.

  • chirau4 hours ago
    In an onion related note... is the "I sell onions on the internet" guy still around? I believe he was selling Vidalia onions.
  • envoked2 hours ago
    For those unfamiliar, there's an excellent Planet Money episode on how trading onion futures got banned in the 50s.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/10/14/448718171/epis...

  • wheybags29 minutes ago
    Someone at the onion needs to see this.
  • not-my-account4 hours ago
    These onion prices are quite high! The novelty probably drives up prices. Too bad there isn’t a liquid market for onions
    • bowmessage4 hours ago
      Onion soup sounds highly fungible.
      • SwellJoe2 hours ago
        Maybe if you put some mushrooms in it.
  • retube3 hours ago
    These are not forwards, not futures.
    • a11ce2 hours ago
      Yeah, this is pretty much the loophole. They're never actually referred to as futures, but as "private, transferable contracts for the future physical delivery of yellow onions".
  • rich_sasha3 hours ago
    I get that it’s a joke, since onion futures are illegal. But isn’t trading all futures regulated?
    • csande172 hours ago
      You're not really trading a future, you're just pre-ordering onions.
  • theogravity4 hours ago
    How many onions / lbs does a contract represent?
    • pjscott4 hours ago
      A contract represents a set of (quantity, month) tuples, where quantity is an integer greater than zero; that number of yellow onions will be delivered in the corresponding month to the current holder of the contract. The mass of each onion is unspecified, as is the mean and variance of the underlying onion-mass distribution from which they are drawn.
    • shoo4 hours ago
      Pricing is per onion. You could order some and weigh them, and report back.
  • wocram4 hours ago
    These are 1 onion contracts? Outrageous!
    • K0balt3 hours ago
      I know, right! Way overvalued. I’m shorting onions.
  • briansm3 hours ago
    The Future's Bright. The Future's Onion.
  • dougSF703 hours ago
    This is very good.
  • charcircuit4 hours ago
    >and for hedging risks associated with weather and market fluctuations

    Why don't existing futures cover this? Are onions unique in how sturdy they are? You can use derivatives of the weather itself even.

    • tesseract2 hours ago
      Because, specifically for onions, it's infamously illegal in the US (as the site alludes to).
  • ElProlactin4 hours ago
    Can we tokenize this or get some prediction markets going on Polymarket?
  • leej1114 hours ago
    Maybe I open a tor store for people trading these onions with one another?
  • yieldcrv4 hours ago
    hell yeah, based