109 pointsby iamnothere2 hours ago13 comments
  • 1over1372 hours ago
    US everything has become unappetizing for everyone outside the US.
    • qwerpy2 minutes ago
      On the bright side, if enough people agree with this, I could finally buy a house in my neighborhood for <$3M. Prices remain stubbornly high and no amount of "America sucks" on HN and reddit are convincing these (mostly foreign, wealthy) people to sell their houses :(
    • rpdillonan hour ago
      And many of us inside the US as well, tbf.
    • gradus_ad26 minutes ago
      There must always be a hegemon. Will it be Europe? No, too weak and divided..will it be China? No, too authoritarian..

      The US remains the best option among a mixed field of weak, corrupt, divided and authoritarian alternatives.

      • JumpCrisscross23 minutes ago
        We’re seeing a return to multilateral hegemony. Russia, China, India, a new Persia, Israel and Turkey during it out in Asia. The edges of those conflicts trying to bring war back to Europe. And America getting potentially balanced by China and Europe in the Americas, with the Pacific theatre figuring out its own balancing game plan.
        • daymanstep20 minutes ago
          > America getting potentially balanced by China and Europe in the Americas

          I can't figure out a way to parse this sentence that makes sense. Are you saying that "Europe" will "balance" the USA in the Americas? As in, European influence will counteract US influence in the Americas?

          • nostrademons12 minutes ago
            Would assume it's in reference to things like the EU offering associate membership to Canada, or China's trade deals with Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Peru, etc.
          • JumpCrisscross15 minutes ago
            > European influence will counteract US influence in the Americas?

            Yes. If you’re Canada or Mexico or frankly anyone else in the Americas, you probably don’t want all your weapons systems to be dependant on American supply chains. And then if you think about it, you probably don’t want all your energy imports dependent on Washington’s noblesse. Et cetera.

            American exceptionalism was built on the trust the world put in us getting so unilaterally powerful without being balanced.

    • toomuchtodo2 hours ago
      Exorbitant privilege is a gift that lasts only as long as the trust does.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorbitant_privilege

      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47635834 covers this succinctly:

      > America was in practice running an empire that collected tribute from the rest of planet earth in exchange for entries in a database denominated in a currency they controlled and that was accepted everywhere. Really the only way it could go wrong is putting it under the control of someone who doesn't understand the kayfabe...

      from

      Gold overtakes U.S. Treasuries as the largest foreign reserve asset - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47635056 - April 2026 (250 comments)

      • rayineran hour ago
        This argument fundamentally does not make sense. Look at a chart of U.S. GDP per capita growth: https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!zSCw!,f_auto,q_auto:...

        The U.S. was growing at the same rate or faster as the UK from 1830 to 1930, when the UK had an empire and the U.S. didn’t. Then, in the second half of the 20th century when the U.S. had an empire and the UK didn’t, the growth rates were more or less the same in both places in the long run trend (ignoring the UK’s step change hit from WWII).

        • stbede15 minutes ago
          Wouldn't the more relevant point of comparison be the difference between long-term government bonds. The exorbitant privilege is that it's easier to fund US government debt because trade in USD means that large institutions around the world need USD and store those dollars in the form of US treasuries, which in turn lead to lower bond rates and cheaper debt.
        • dixie_landan hour ago
          The £ was backed by UK's (perceived) military might just as $ is by the States'.

          The the war on Iran (and many years of war on terror) showed we have anything but

          • rayiner2 minutes ago
            [delayed]
          • rtkwean hour ago
            There are other backers to that as well. The main ones being oil trades being settled largely in USD and the need to acquire USD to pay for US goods/services. It's not all military might there's a lot of economic might in there too.
            • toomuchtodo33 minutes ago
              This is the important point. Oil was/is settled in dollars. The world is rapidly moving away from oil. China has already hit peak oil. China is 1/3rd of global manufacturing capacity. If you're leaving oil behind, and buying solar, batteries, and EVs from China, your need for dollars declines, and need for yuan goes up. Also, stocks vs flows. You have to keep buying oil every day from petrostates, while the clean tech you buy is yours for its entire service life (a decade or more for EVs, decades for solar and stationary battery storage).

              The US did well when the Saudis required dollars for oil as part of the US-Saudi security and military arrangement, and that arrangement is declining in value over time as the value of oil to the global economy declines. The US loses investors in US treasuries when folks who sold oil for dollars do not have dollars from oil sales. Shades of theta decay.

              China Adds Currencies to Central Clearing in Yuan's Global Push - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49736124 - September 2026

              The Iran War Just Broke the Petrodollar - https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2026-04-06/the-pe... | https://archive.today/RyJA8 - April 6th, 2026

              > "The petrodollar loop requires two moving parts: dollars earned and dollars invested. Both have stopped."

              > The standard reassurance is that there is no alternative to Treasuries — no other market offers the depth, liquidity and legal infrastructure that central banks require. This remains true. Foreign central banks will not abandon Treasuries wholesale. But “no realistic alternative” and “unquestioned safe haven” are not the same thing, and the Iran war is clarifying the difference.

              https://ember-energy.org/data/china-cleantech-exports-data-e...

              > As the world’s largest manufacturer of clean technologies, data on China’s cleantech exports provide an important early insight into the pace and scale of the energy transition. In 2024, China produced around 80% of the world’s solar PV modules and battery cells, and 70% of electric vehicles.

              (as of this comment, China is exporting EVs at a 12M unit/year annualized run rate, with the capacity to build 50M EVs/year; they are only constrained by not enough marine vessels to keep up with export demand; every 24 months of EV production destroys ~1M barrels/day of oil demand at current run rates, which continue to increase)

              China growth straining global auto shipping capacity - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49553327 - September 2026 (0 comments)

              China's Manufacturing Advantage, Explained [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49451076 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgYKVpOsMJs - August 2026

              (think in systems)

      • ProjectArcturisan hour ago
        [dead]
    • carefree-boban hour ago
      This is nonsense. The rest of the world holds 9.7 Trillion in Treasuries and this amount increased by $500 billion over the last year.

      So the opposite of this article is true. You can get all the data from the Z.1 release.

      Please don't take these types of flame bait articles seriously or try to spin up an entire world view based on them as you will end up not only directionally wrong, but believe in the exact opposite of reality.

      FYI, that $500B increase in treasury holdings is not the whole picture, there are also the agencies (housing mortage backed securities guaranteed by the govt) and foreign holdings of those also increased by $70 billion over the last year, and are about 1.5 Trillion.

      • bryanlarsen37 minutes ago
        You are using the wrong metric. The supply of t-bills is increasing rapidly because of the massive deficit. That is sufficient to explain the increased number of holdings.

        The correct metric is price. If there is decreased demand, it will show up in the yield. And it does.

      • slgan hour ago
        Sure, the engines may have died, but not only is the plane still airborne, it's even accelerating!
      • boricj24 minutes ago
        It's not just about treasure bonds. The mood is shifting in Europe that, maybe, putting all the eggs in the USA basket is perhaps not that great of an idea.

        It's the vindication of Gaullism half a century after De Gaulle's death, the concept of strategic autonomy is getting traction in the rest of Europe. It's not that we can't be friends, but that we shouldn't let our future be gambled in the hands of Wisconsin voters every two years.

      • bfleschan hour ago
        Institutional investors are very slow to adapt, so I wouldn't take their continued investment as a positive signal. The sentiment shift is real, and a lot of goodwill has been spent.

        It's basically divide and conquer on a national scale tearing down the democratic world police and the democratic systems it supported.

        • carefree-boban hour ago
          The point is that the entire article is wrong, factually.

          In terms of institutional investors and sentiment, I think you are fundamentally not understanding why the rest of the world holds US debt, it is to support running trade surpluses. That is a core economic need of much of the world, and as long as there is that need, you will see foreign government accumulation of dollar denominated assets.

          For some reason people either refuse to understand simple balance of payment accounting constraints or they are deeply offended by them, and want to live in a world in which moral outrage determines things like global capital flows.

          But we do not live in that world. The reason why the rest of the world accumulated a trillion of dollar denominated assets last year, split roughly 50/50 between private and public, is solely because China needed to run a trillion dollar trade surplus. And next year it will also need to run an even bigger surplus. That forces everything else.

          • lokar38 minutes ago
            Yep. The flow has to balance out somehow. If the US buys more then it sells (all in, including services, which trump ignores for no clear reason) the sellers have to end up owning USD denominated assets.
        • quickthrowman36 minutes ago
          There are an excess of dollars floating around internationally and only so many ‘risk free’ dollar-denominated assets. US Treasuries will continue to be purchased. There are plenty of buyers who are obligated to buy risk-free assets and US Treasuries are the vehicle of choice.
    • glimshean hour ago
      [flagged]
      • rconti29 minutes ago
        No single alternative has to be better in all cases. Any diversification will end up reducing demand for treasuries.

        It's not a black and white issue.

      • josefritzishere41 minutes ago
        [dead]
    • isodevan hour ago
      Imagine, even Apple is moving itself to the shitlist.
  • Arubis20 minutes ago
    Dedollarizing the world economy has more net losers than the US (though that's the obvious one).

    It's not without its benefits -- over the last couple decade, the US has found ways to weaponize access to USD, so if you're not a fan of having a country other than your own able to effectively regulate or sanction you and your business, there's some niceties here.

    Being able to trade and invest in a stable, highly liquid, easily converted, low risk currency was a net win for most of the world for about half a century. There isn't an obvious replacement, so we'll just see more friction.

    • 11 minutes ago
      undefined
    • nostrademons15 minutes ago
      It's kind of a prelude to a Thucydides Trap.

      The problem with replacing the world reserve currency with something else is that nobody can agree on what that something else should be. Expect to see a lot of jockeying for power as people realize the U.S. isn't the world hegemon anymore. Jockeying, on a state level, usually means war.

      • tehjoker9 minutes ago
        Only China has the GDP to replace USA. So while the answer isn't written in stone, it looks like it'll be China, or since China favors UN governance, maybe we'll move to an old discarded idea (because it didn't serve American interests) like an international currency system that Keynes favored.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bancor

        Recall that America is currently attacking Iran without provocation and is aiding a genocide.

    • JumpCrisscross19 minutes ago
      Nothing this article claims or shows de-dollarisation other than the editorialized headline.
  • kelnosan hour ago
    Looking at the graphs in the article, I don't think the overall picture supports the headline...
    • thechaoan hour ago
      Yeah. The headline is utterly divorced from the reality of the charts?
      • iamnotherean hour ago
        How so? Foreign official holdings are flat since 2012.

        The headline specifically refers to central bank and government holdings.

        • JumpCrisscross20 minutes ago
          The only real dumping has happened from Japan, which is fighting to defend the yen, and China, which is obviously repositioning though to a way lesser degree than a nation dumping an adversary’s bonds would.

          The story is just another way of saying we’re issuing more debt. Central banks aren’t reducing exposure. They just didn’t increase them with our own finances, which makes sense, our finances don’t increase their reserve requirements.

          • iamnothere9 minutes ago
            Holdings by France, Taiwan, and India have also decreased year over year. Based on the charts, it could be the start of a reversal, but charts are charts and we’ll just have to see.

            Brazil is on a long term downtrend although they may be bottoming out.

            Norway just proposed reducing bond holdings in its sovereign fund.

            It’s not as clear cut as you’re making it out to be.

  • jandrewrogersan hour ago
    I think the more interesting story is the long-term decline in the quality of virtually all sovereign debt. Many things are anchored to the assumption that high-quality sovereign debt is widely available.
  • thehumanmeat33 minutes ago
    The article couldn't be less true. Treasuries are the deepest and most liquid market by far. Foreign CBs hold them so that they can liquidate them when it becomes hard to find dollars. Why else do foreign CBs want to constantly open up swap lines to us when they are hurting?
  • an hour ago
    undefined
  • csomaran hour ago
    The issue (real issue?) is that it’s unclear whether these governments reduced their holdings or switched them to these opaque structures (tether can be considered one). The idea is, it would be hard for the US to untangle true ownership. I wonder if UBO was getting undone blue or red because it’s a real threat for such a system but the US needs this “second” lifeline.
    • sidewndr46an hour ago
      Are their sovereign states dumb enough to invest in Tether?
    • an hour ago
      undefined
  • general_revealan hour ago
    We’re headed for war.

    They are bracing us for Taiwan situation where a standoff will probably lead to China making an aggressive financial move.

    Cheers :)

  • paulsutter2 hours ago
    I was dismissive when I saw the title, but they have real statistics: foreign holdings are at 2012 levels while total treasuries outstanding are 3x larger.
    • carefree-boban hour ago
      Holdings have increased by $500 billion over the last year. Why cherry pick 2012? Because that was in the aftermath of QE from the great recession and foreign holdings of treasuries were enormous as they rotated out of US private debt and sought the safety of treasuries. Today it is risk on, relatively speaking.

      These go up and down based on cash management needs and portfolio allocation choices between public and private debt, and so you can pick one year when cash management needs were high or appetite for riskier were low. And then count on people being dupes, LOL.

      • NewJazzan hour ago
        The trouble is the US never paid down the debt for those years, they just rolled it over and incurred new debt. If foreign holdings decrease further, it doesn't matter if it is simply for cash management reasons -- the US will be rolling over historic debt at historic interest rates.
        • carefree-bob39 minutes ago
          By paying down the debt, you mean issuing less debt over time? The US government is not an uncle that pays off his debt so he can retire and move to Florida. An individual does that, but the household sector as a whole does not pay down debt, because for every uncle moving to Florida, there is an Aunt borrowing for a new house. So instead, we talk about things like sectoral debt ratios and do not use language like "when will people in Maine finally pay down debt, I'm sick of seeing people in Maine owing debt".

          The government is a sector of the economy. You can argue that we are borrowing too much, and I would agree, but you are not gonna fix that until you address the foreign capital inflows. That means rolling back the investor rights agreements. As long as foreign nations can print money and use it to buy dollars in order to stimulate their exports, the US is going to have a problem with excessive debt loads. The flipside of that is that the US will not have a problem of foreign investors decreasing their holdings. It will increase every single year, in line with foreign export demands. If anyone tells you the opposite, just look for the error or the lie, because I guarantee you there is one. This article has both.

    • freefolks2 hours ago
      treasuries are the same as cash. All that means is there is still too much USD Money supply from QE and rates will continue to go higher to reduce the supply.
  • feverzsjan hour ago
    Thanks, Trump.
  • llmslavean hour ago
    US policy:

    1. print money

    2. suppress wages by shipping in cheap labor

    3. reassure the population you arent doing the above

    • tastyfreezean hour ago
      Step 3 is profit. As in, "we are robbing you blind but that's not my hand in your pocket".
      • llmslavean hour ago
        unreal that they are still doing it too
  • reenorapan hour ago
    Yes, that's called Quantitative Easing after the Global Financial Crisis. The peak in the graph was 2008 after which the US issues a shit ton of debt which was bought by the Fed. China used to be the biggest holder of US Treasuries but now it's the Federal Reserve and Japan.

    But the idea that you look at that graph as say it's "unappetizing" is dumb. Most foreign governments besides China have INCREASED their UST holdings. The only reason why the % is dropping is because of the massive amount bought by the Fed which messed up the %.

    • reenorapan hour ago
      Every graph of foreign ownership is up and to the left over the last 10 years

      https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/foreign-treasury-...

      https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/foreign-treasury-...

      https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/foreign-treasury-...

      Only China has gone down:

      https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/foreign-treasury-...

      I stand corrected about Japan it looks like they've been flat over the last 10+ YEARS

      https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/foreign-treasury-...

      Basically the article linked above is dumb, and they either are stupid and don't understand what they're talking about or trying to cast a false narrative

      • carefree-boban hour ago
        China also has not gone down, they are merely shifting their ownership structures. China accumulated over a trillion in dollar denominated assets last year, but rumors are the big players have been Chinese regional banks. It's a byzantine mess of hidden ownership structures over there.
        • iamnotherean hour ago
          If true, this would change the narrative. But I wouldn’t base anything on rumors. China is also rapidly building its supply of bullion and is attempting to shift trade away from the USD, so it would make sense for it to be drawing down on USD reserves. (Not that it will ever eliminate those reserves completely.)
          • carefree-boban hour ago
            It doesn't matter whether it is Chinese regional banks, or SAFE, or any other instrument. Brad Setzer tries to do a heroic job decoding this stuff at his CFR blog (https://www.cfr.org/blogs/follow-the-money) but at the end of the day, all that matters is total foreign holdings of dollar denominated assets - that measures their exposure to the dollar.

            Everything else is portfolio allocation choices between treasuries or agencies or BAA corporates or AAA corporates, there are so many different instruments to invest in, you can shift your holdings back and forth however you like, all while keeping your dollar exposure exactly the same. And you can set up a fund in the Caymans and hold your assets there. And China does all of that. So really it is all fungible once you are in the "foreign ownership" bucket.

            • iamnothere37 minutes ago
              Your point about dollar exposure is true, we just have limited insight into foreign private ownership, as the article points out. If nations are using these vehicles to conceal their dollar exposure (or for some other purpose that results in the same effect), then we will have trouble understanding the functioning of the global economy and the risks present in the system. That seems important.

              Also, equities and treasuries are not equivalent. If foreign holdings are moving to equities over treasuries, the added risk will be a serious problem in a crisis. It could also be a sign that some nations are being “encouraged” to prop up equity markets, either by the US or large domestic holders of US equities, which is a rumor that I’ve come across.

    • method_capitalan hour ago
      Yeah ... and exactly how many of our treasury auctions have failed? Zero. Overbid by foreign parties, all of them.
      • reenorapan hour ago
        Exactly. Same as when Bessent wanted to buy 6B in long bonds but only bought 5.XB, people said that it failed but anyone who understands knows that it's the opposite. The oversubscription rate is normally 3X or more but this time it was 2X which means that people would rather keep their long bonds, which shows confidence in them.
  • lvl2562 hours ago
    I think RoW is trying to send a message to certain US constituents.

    Edit: so much hate for something so benign.

    • pnut2 hours ago
      Please don't make us decode your acronym https://www.acronymfinder.com/ROW.html
      • techdmnan hour ago
        I've been hesitant to talk about this too much, because it's such a bad joke, but personally I'm waging a War On Acronyms (WOA). They really don't save much time or effort, but make communication much more opaque. They can be a way of in-group signaling, which just makes it harder for newcomers / outsiders to come up to speed. And so many collisions.
        • lvl25620 minutes ago
          RoW is not opaque. It’s widely used especially in academia. Acronyms exists for a good reason. If you like everything spelled out please stop using apostrophes while you’re at it.
          • arcanemachiner19 minutes ago
            Very solipsistic take. Most people don't live in your bubble.
            • 17 minutes ago
              undefined
    • apercu2 hours ago
      RoW = Rest of World?

      If so, those constituencies are immune to facts and common sense.

      • arcanemachiner19 minutes ago
        Good guess. I'm usually pretty good with acronyms, but this one's got me stumped.