75 pointsby TangerineDream2 hours ago26 comments
  • serf23 minutes ago
    >One of my most successful life-hacks is to avoid people I don’t like or don’t trust.

    following this advice would have made most of my professional life impossible, what a luxury it would have been to be able to.

    • hmokiguess20 minutes ago
      Some people aren't very self aware of their own bubble and how luck plays a role in their life.
      • heavensteeth6 minutes ago
        who's to say OP hasn't suffered or otherwise disadvantaged himself in upholding that moral?
      • bcrosby9513 minutes ago
        Pointing to luck renders all advice meaningless.
        • jdiff12 minutes ago
          Much advice is meaningless, baseless post-mortem correlations from people trying to justify their own success.
          • rexpop6 minutes ago
            "Buy more lottery tickets!"
            • teravor2 minutes ago
              no, it's "buy lottery tickets to exclusive lotteries".

              the ability to enter such lotteries is where success lies. either through connections or ability.

        • esseph12 minutes ago
          Luck can mean opportunity, but doesn't reflect on capability, availability,or outcome.
      • 10 minutes ago
        undefined
      • bluGill15 minutes ago
        People who say that tend to make their own bad luck and not get nearly as far in life.

        Not that luck doesn't have a role, but everybody gets it.

    • swatcoder11 minutes ago
      For reasonably skilled people, it's often more just a matter of priority.

      A lot of people get wrapped up in pursuing compensation opportunities or prestige brands as their top priority, only to burn themselves out or wallow in a domain/culture that doesn't suit them, but if you're willing to deprioritize pay or dinner table cred, you often end up with a lot more flexibility on other work factors. And sometimes, flourishing in those better-fit environments pays off bigger in compensation and career growth in the end anyway.

      Granted, Fowler was able to do very well on more axes than many of us, but most competent mid- or late- career people have plenty more flexibility on worklife than they admit to themselves.

    • simoncion13 minutes ago
      You appear to be confusing "avoid" with "never interact with".

      If your professional life has required you to spend enormous amounts of time working very closely with people you don't like and/or don't trust, then -unless it has made you enough money to retire after a few years' work- please accept my condolences.

    • rexpop6 minutes ago
      What makes this a luxury? I've met many people in my life, and this gives me the opportunity to pick-and-choose with whom I do business. It's a matter of degree.

      Plus, I've been on the receiving end, too. Is this not simply adulthood?

  • SillyUsernamea few seconds ago
    Love the totally conflicting statements in that post.

    - When we think of AI agents, we shouldn’t anthropomorphize

    - ...my visceral dislike of interacting with an LLM that’s not just making a pretense of being human, but also posing as the kind of human I walk away from.

    So he's anthropomorphised the LLM as being like a human himself (rather than forcing it to act as a machine via its prompt for example).

    Maybe he should have had an AI check his post

  • saadn9212 minutes ago
    LLMs have helped me a ton and have allowed me to replace all my apps that I was paying for. They're internal, so they don't have to be perfect, but man they've saved me money. That's just my experience.
    • ozlikethewizard10 minutes ago
      What were you paying for?
      • saadn925 minutes ago
        Youtube music, GitKraken, 1password, Parallels -- i've canceled subscriptions to all of these because either I've replaced them or have had help from LLMs enough to find different options that are either free or cheaper.
        • bthrn2 minutes ago
          For use cases like this, how is the LLM different from a Google search?
      • ilikehurdles6 minutes ago
        Turbotax.
  • droidjj17 minutes ago
    In some ways I miss the early LLM days before RL and system prompts (I assume this is the difference) made them all sound the same. They would say weird stuff. They got better at being useful and worse at being fun.*

    *This sadly also describes me as a 31 year old man.

  • binloga minute ago
    Kinda funny that one of the biggest software engineering “influencers” of all time can’t host a blog that survives HN front page traffic. Maybe try LLMs Martin.
  • AIiscoming3 minutes ago
    It surprises me a little bit that we still don't have a personalized agent.

    I def want to finetune my llm responses and yes sure Claude has some type of memory but its too early to just bet on one horse and while i use claude at home through claude.ai i also use claude through an api at my company.

    It might start feeling better when they solve the issue of forgetting things they already got right before.

  • seaucre8 minutes ago
    I think this is a very even-handed reasonable position. and it's true - LLMs can be unpleasant to talk to. the day it feels like a magical delightful experience is the day we'll probably be out of jobs, though.
  • 13 minutes ago
    undefined
  • hybrid_study10 minutes ago
    Reasonable stance, though not sure it will remain viable.
  • mmooss4 minutes ago
    > Fundamentally I don’t think we have a choice about riding on the AI technology train.

    It's amazing how effectively tech leaders have indoctrinated people to give up their power and give the tech people free reign. The same thing has happened in the socio-political realm. Assertions of powerlessness are seen as wisdom.

  • heavensteeth15 minutes ago
    • z0ra minute ago
      archive.is / archive.ph haven't loaded for me for a while, but since people are sharing fresh links it must be working somewhere. Am I experiencing a DNS block?
  • techblueberry13 minutes ago
    One of the I dunno, weird things about LLMs, is that their search space feels exceptionally constrained.

    I'm sure I can sort of prompt it to try to give the answer I want but some people talk about "I don't want an LLM with a political perspective, just provide all the perspectives equally and without bias."

    And to a certain extent they have to be constrained. Anything more than a 500 word response I'm probably not going to read, particularly if I want to go deeper on something I want to navigate the conversation. But it means that tuning things like sycophancy just create sort of extremely simple mitigations. Even when I say "May" or "slight chance of" I'm often corrected "Be careful to make too blanket of a statement." I wonder if part of this has been the move towards optimizing towards the agent experience.

    Likewise a bias towards "Say things equally without bias" is an exceptionally poor way to actually explore the nuances of an idea, with this sort of regression to the mean.

    I don't know if they'll be able to solve this problem broadly. I mean, LLMs probably shouldn't be therapists/coaches/philosophical gurus. But I could anticipate a growth in sort of groupthink and regression to the mean in terms of perspectives broadly speaking as a society.

    I find them useful. Maybe it's better I find them distasteful to talk to as well.

    • huurtehoog7 minutes ago
      I have great success in specifically asking LLM tools for academic literature after describing the problem or field I would like to get some insight into.

      It's usually the first step I take when writing research. I don't even read the analysis, just go straight for the papers.

      They usually provide me with very relevant seminal papers and I can then easily expand from the bibliography in those papers.

      It basically solves discoverability, whereas in the past I would spend days and would need to ask colleagues and librarians for help, to achieve what I can get in minutes now.

      But again, I value the actual output of the LLMs at bellow zero factually wise because I need to check everything they say if I want to internalize it and use it for any end. Pointing me to sources is the perfect use case. Really, I cannot emphasize enough how little I trust the text LLMs produce, I actively avoid reading it because I really don't want to risk ingesting spurious information that I might later repeat or rely on for any reason.

      • techblueberry3 minutes ago
        Yeah, I think part of it is - I want LLM's to do I think what they're promising to do which is like provide new perspectives on things.

        But they're response is kinda always.

        "Python? Have you considered that some people prefer, javascript?"

        To your point, I think I'm asking too much, and would have a better time if I adjusted my approach.

  • phendrenad211 minutes ago
    I don't like hammers, either. But I wouldn't try to build a house without one, now that they've been invented.
  • acedTrex13 minutes ago
    yes they are incredibly unpleasant to work with. Like the most annoying coworker you ever had.

    For my own sanity ive wrapped my pi setup in some strict bubble wrap and it is basically exclusively an LOC generator. I have no need nor desire to "converse" with the LLM, it is there to do exactly what i need when i need it.

  • llm_nerd5 minutes ago
    While the article is fairly broad (it talks about "our profession", which ostensibly is coding, but then talks more about LLMs and their conversational style which is something that everyone has opinions on), it's worth pondering what his professional relationship with coding is today.

    Is he actively coding...anything? Any projects? And engagements? Or is he a coding influencer now, giving hot takes and opinions, and riding on the XP inertia as a relevant authority?

    Because if it's the latter, and I strongly suspect it is, his opinions on LLMs and coding are close to worthless. There are loads of "I'm now an influencer" giving these sorts of hot takes now, and they all seem...detached and irrational with the real world.

  • artemonster25 minutes ago
    Modern internet ruined forums and google search sucks hairy balls, and most of the content is SEO optimised ad ridden crap. Its literally impossible to find anything meaningful on the internet nowadays. What else can we do besides asking an LLM these days?
    • ashkankiani17 minutes ago
      I agree in sentiment, and really a lot of this is Google's doing. It's been around a decade since they switched to approximate results and started encouraging people to search via sentences. I believe this is the one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Hummingbird

      The internet for all of its activity is becoming harder to index because the classic dumb search engines were turned into personalized semantic people pleasers.

      The classic model for knowledge discovery still exists, though. You find a blog you like, and use that as a thread of knowledge. You join a community and talk with someone and share resources together. Join a small group chat and post with those people. Your knowledge sharing comes from people you share interests with.

      Go to a library, ask your coworkers. If you put in the ground-work, it's possible to do that. For seeds of knowledge outside of your local network, at this point you have to find the indexers that work for you.

      Personally, I am in the process of writing the infrastructure for my own search engine, and maybe I will share the tech broadly one day. For now, I'll keep my inventions to my closer personal circles.

      In general, I think people should be able to more easily maintain their own offline indices, and share knowledge graphs peer-to-peer rather than relying on a centralized one, in my opinion. This tech has no monetization opportunity, though, so I'm guessing that's why it's relatively under-developed, but luckily for me I have enough money and now enough time to develop and release it (and similar tools).

    • miltonlost18 minutes ago
      An LLM that is now serving ads! And also sucks up to you. And also is wrong confidently.
    • mindcrime23 minutes ago
      > and most of the content is SEO optimised ad ridden crap.

      That was the case long before LLM's even existed though.

      • harimau77720 minutes ago
        I think that the argument is not that it happened before LLMs. Rather, assuming I'm understanding the parent correctly, they are arguing that, due to the enshittification of search and the internet, LLMs are the only way to get information from it. That has definitely been my experience as well.
  • moomoo1120 minutes ago
    maybe use the LLM to help you keep your site working under load?

    it is a tool after all.

    • happytoexplain12 minutes ago
      I can't believe HN has changed so much that we are now mocking people for not hardening their blogs against traffic spikes. The comment used to just be "hugged", but now, if the author has anything critical to say about AI, it's this same snarky, elitist quip every time.

      I know we're not supposed to complain about HN "changing", but, shit, it really hurts.

      • tryphan4 minutes ago
        Turns out, people here are just as opinionated and snarky as anywhere else. It's grounding, really.
      • kevmo11 minutes ago
        I mean, this is also Martin Fowler, a luminary in the field. His site should be able to handle the HN hug of death, particularly if he's bashing the latest-and-greatest tools. As is, he looks like an old man shouting about cars being bad while his horse drops dead at the side of the road.
        • martinsba minute ago
          I personally don't see the correlation between what he's been saying about AI and his blog site's reliability requirements. It's a blog, not some high availability service.

          Also, was Henry Ford asking for regulation because his cars may destroy our civilization as we knew it?

    • majkinetor18 minutes ago
      Indeed. Very disappointing given what figure is in question. Simple GH pages behind CF would do which is something people starting learning IT this week can do.
      • dprkha few seconds ago
        > Very disappointing given what figure is in question.

        Are you implying that Martin Fowler is a highly respected figure or something? He just comes off as a grifter from what I can see.

  • deburo21 minutes ago
    What is the Silicon Valley brogrammer subculture? Is it the same as the Silicon Valley subculture? What defines both? Are LLMs really the product of brogrammers?
    • ModernMech20 minutes ago
      Brogrammers are in it for the love of money. Programmers are in it for the love of programming.
      • SkyeCA3 minutes ago
        Love doesn't pay the bills and this industry will kill any love a normal person has for programming.
      • hectdev15 minutes ago
        what if you're in it for both? I like solving puzzles and want to extract the maximum amount I am due for making a company profits.
        • rexpop3 minutes ago
          Good, then you're not a scab!
      • Legend244015 minutes ago
        I can count on one hand how many people I've met that are into programming for the love of it.

        For most people it's a job, and that's ok.

        • nicoburns12 minutes ago
          > I can count on one hand how many people I've met that are into programming for the love of it

          That's surprising to me. It's been a majority of people I've worked with. I guess perhaps it depends heavily on where you work.

          • Legend24409 minutes ago
            Maybe? Dev job at a non-tech F500 company. All these guys have kids and houses in the suburbs.
        • zdragnar9 minutes ago
          Hello! I hope you have an extra finger, because now you've met another. The money certainly doesn't hurt, but I love what I do.
        • BeetleB10 minutes ago
          I don't have enough fingers.

          We hang out in different crowds.

        • spike02111 minutes ago
          even people I know who are supposedly in it for the love of programming inevitably care about the amount of money.
        • esseph6 minutes ago
          [delayed]
      • Invictus015 minutes ago
        normal guy that wants to provide for his family: bro

        autistic guy that rejects your PRs because you used tabs instead of spaces: pro

        • lukevp6 minutes ago
          If you don’t have style rules baked into the PR process, you should. Tabs vs. spaces is a team decision and needs to be matched by everyone to reduce code churn. It’s correct to reject a PR if it violates the team style guide (although it should be automated and have tooling locally to enforce it as well.)
        • hectdev6 minutes ago
          I worked for twitter and there was a guy like this. I made a big stink that "yo, everything this guy says just needs to be in a linter" and they actually implemented it.
        • rexpopa minute ago
          On the contrary, the pro is likely to prefer tabs—you can adjust the display-width for better ergonomics.
    • dgellow16 minutes ago
      Have you watched HBO’s Silicon Valley? Does a surprisingly good job at defining that subculture
  • simonw_simonw_4 minutes ago
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  • draw_down30 minutes ago
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  • titaniumrainan hour ago
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  • Invictus017 minutes ago
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  • tonymet22 minutes ago
    > I don’t like them. They talk to me in this grating LLM-voice, an uncanny valley of talking to a real human.

    This takes about 30 seconds to fix permanently. You can prompt them to use any tone , be as concise or verbose as you like.

    > They confidently bullshit me - often giving me useful, helpful answers. But also just making stuff up with the same assurance - and with only a veneer of fake remorse when I call them out on it.

    Only people with flimsy epistemological underpinnings feel threatened in this way. Everyone makes mistakes, and gets fooled by AI (as we’ve been fooled by historians and scientists), but to write off AI because you feel it’s constantly misleading you means you lack proper foundations. Most of my fun conversations with AI are bending it back into proper grounded truth.

    • zamalek19 minutes ago
      > This takes about 30 seconds to fix permanently. You can prompt them to use any tone , be as concise or verbose as you like.

      This doesn't work by, effectively, Anthropic's own admission. CC's concise mode tells Claude to wind its neck in every turn. That is significantly more than changing the prompt.

      • tonymet11 minutes ago
        That’s a specific example that doesn’t have anything to do with the general approach of prompting.
    • sgarland16 minutes ago
      I’m simply exhausted at needing to refute incorrect LLM answers professionally.
      • tonymet12 minutes ago
        Even AI would have provided a more insightful response than this.
    • aarjaneiro14 minutes ago
      Yeah but what about when you have to read code by others who didn't care for this? At this point, code comments have lost all meaning
      • tonymet12 minutes ago
        I hate to break it to you, comments were mostly useless.
  • itaniuman hour ago
    Well llms are imperfect tools that provide a lot of value (they offer leverage in form of agents to put it in Naval Ravikant words). They are here to stay.
    • ashkankiani26 minutes ago
      He says this in the post almost word-for-word. Are you agreeing with him? The opening "Well" confuses me on what tone you're going with.
    • happytoexplain22 minutes ago
      This comment doesn't make sense as a response to anything the author said.

      As an aside:

      > they offer leverage in form of agents to put it in Naval Ravikant words

      This is a confusing use of attribution. It's sort of like saying, "as Naval Ravikant famously said, AI can be very useful."

    • xdavidliu15 minutes ago
      > offer leverage in form of agents

      i would expect that when you cite someone by name, the sentence being cited should at least be significant and meaningful to the slightest degree

    • dominotw7 minutes ago
      you thought this was some sort of insightful rebuttal that you uniquely thought of?
    • verdverm44 minutes ago
      > Fundamentally I don’t think we have a choice about riding on the AI technology train. It’s a wild ride and I just hope we’ll get through it OK.

      > I don’t like them. They talk to me in this grating LLM-voice, an uncanny valley of talking to a real human. They confidently bullshit me - often giving me useful, helpful answers. But also just making stuff up with the same assurance - and with only a veneer of fake remorse when I call them out on it.

      I think what he needs is a personal fine-tune, something I suspect will become more prominent when we start getting multi-tenant LoRA and can use fine-tunes on a per-token cost basis.

      A co-worker commented that he thought the models performed worse after being "embarrassed," suspect it is an artifact of how some conversations progress in the training data.

  • atulatulan hour ago
    Reminded me of someone saying that taste will become an important factor wrt AI tools/ things built with AI. Something like that.

    edit: Not exactly as I remembered, but it's a PG tweet: Prediction: In the AI age, taste will become even more important. When anyone can make anything, the big differentiator is what you choose to make.

    https://x.com/paulg/status/2022604692178522562