27 pointsby marvinborner5 hours ago8 comments
  • tomkat07895 hours ago
    Reminds me that I need to study the impacts of a vegan diet in the science literature to understand how aggressively I should be pursuing it. The times I’ve lived on a near vegan diet, I feel quietly better in lots of little unexpected ways. Happy to chase books or links if people have them lying around.
    • rogerkirkness5 hours ago
      I had to stop after 6 months because my testosterone dropped so much (serious, blood test confirmed). Felt way better for the first few months, then slowly lower energy and not like myself. Eventually realized more vegetables is good, but nailing is protein wise on true vegan diet is very very hard.
      • thriving_earthw5 hours ago
        It is absolutely not "very hard." It is challenging at first because like anything else, the startup costs of new habit formation can be high. But tofu, soy milk, seitan, tempeh, lentils, and many other plant protein sources are highly available and easy to cook with once you try. Been at it for a few years myself and at this point, it's extremely easy. I take protein shakes when working out, just like I did when I ate animal products.

        Everyone is different, but if you weren't actually able to hit protein macros then I think that's a skill that isn't too hard to improve for most people (if they have a decent reason for wanting to go vegan in the first place).

      • moribvndvs5 hours ago
        I’ve been vegan for 14 years. Protein is not very very hard, unless you have multiple dietary restrictions on top of plant based. Which, if I can be frank, tend to be self imposed when people complain about this to me after dabbling in plant based.
      • Unit3275 hours ago
        Correlation is not causation, especially in a sample of 1, the plural of anecdote is not data etc etc. Protein is easy, just eat some beans and rice, tofu, tempeh etc. You can't just take the diet you had before and subtract things and expect it to work, you have to substitute. Make sure to get B12, D and maybe omega 3 and creatine either as supplements or fortified in foods, and get your levels checked every year or so.

        I've been vegan for 15+ years, and I'm willing to say there are zero health benefits over a healthy omnivorous diet. The people who find one are misattributing it. It's not that vegan is healthier, just that what they were doing before was decidedly unhealthy. For a lot of people going vegan is the first time they actually think about what they eat, read labels etc, which is where most of the benefit comes from.

      • John78787815 hours ago
        I am vegan except for fish, and find it works really well. Sardines are awesome!
        • BowBun5 hours ago
          A good term for that is pescatarian - as eating fish is neither vegan nor veg!
        • shmoil2 hours ago
          And occasional steak? I love steak.

          I am a pesca-pescaterian, btw.

        • deadbabe5 hours ago
          So not vegan at all.
          • Incipient5 hours ago
            I'd say their description is fair. We don't have a word for vegan+fish. Pescetarianism includes eggs, milk, etc.

            So they're precisely vegan, with fish.

            • deadbabe2 hours ago
              That is absolutely wrong.

              There is no gray area when it comes to veganism. Just because there is no word for that diet, does not mean you can just twist the definition of vegan for your convenience.

              You could easily just say your a pescatarian who doesn’t eat dairy or eggs, and that would be more correct.

            • colordrops4 hours ago
              Except veganism is not a diet, but an ethical framework. The diet is a consequence, not the definition.
    • markvdb5 hours ago
      Dr. Michael Greger's "How not to die" is interesting.
      • astr0n0m3r3 hours ago
        That book is highly-biased in favor of veganism. Greger is very controversial. Any mention of him ought to also acknowledge this. Also, he wears a lab coat but doesn't see patients, which is weird AF.
  • farhanhubble5 hours ago
    Both pure vegan and pure meat camps claim to have scientific evidence that it works, which make me question if change is what the body responds to. From personal experience, eating less often and fasting does seem to improve things like brain fog, indigestion etc.
    • Unit3275 hours ago
      People going vegan or going pure aktins or whatever have the most important thing in common, they are actually thinking about what they eat, reading labels and generally making conscious decisions about food.
  • thriving_earthw5 hours ago
    We need to collectively evolve as a species past intensive industrial animal confinement. To think, we can be more compassionate and don't need to sacrifice our health, and may in fact be able to live healthier!
  • tpoacher5 hours ago
    Highly misleading title. They make you really dig up linked paywalled papers before you see any methods to see what people actually ate.

    The methods say people were allocated to vegan versus "high meat consumption" foods, with participants free to choose their diets. The only restriction was you had to "try" to increase intake if losing weight, and "try" to decrease intake if gaining weight. (i.e. only isocaloric per basal rate, not across the board). Then the linked studies hint heavily that the vegan group tended towards less protein but more fibre, and roughly equal carbs (fat is not mentioned!!). Which at the very least shows the diets were not "equivalent bar for meat", let alone for "moderate" (i.e. potentially healthy) amounts of meat.

    So they're not comparing "healthy wholefood vegan vs healthy wholefood meat diets". They're comparing availability and behavioural tendencies towards dietary choices when aiming for a short term vegan diet versus when aiming for a short term diet characterised by excessive amounts of meat.

    I honestly don't get why they do studies like this. It's a waste of time for everyone involved. It's almost like they're only after a headline extolling veganism, rather than actually useful comparisons that could lead to real, actionable dietary insights. Really, if anything, a supported conclusion here could even be that meat diets are likely healthier given sufficient fibre supplementation.

  • rrjjww5 hours ago
    "Alter" is an interesting word choice
  • bell-cot5 hours ago
    > the participants were randomly assigned to two groups: 24 followed a vegan diet for four weeks, while 24 followed a diet particularly high in meat.

    This may be correct technique for a small-n, short-duration study.

    But don't expect the results to be applicable to typical non-vegans.

  • xyst5 hours ago
    Living to 100 is overrated anyways.

       As if this planet will even be worth living on if climate change continues to go unchecked. Or if humanity will even exist after the inevitable mass extinction event
    • colordrops5 hours ago
      always some excuse to keep eating meat
      • david-gpu5 hours ago
        Always some excuse to look down on other people.
        • colordrops4 hours ago
          Do you look down on murderers and rapists? Or if you think that analogy is too strong, what about people who beat their children, which was considered normal and expected 60 years ago.
        • piloto_ciego4 hours ago
          [dead]
      • jojobas5 hours ago
        None needed.
        • colordrops4 hours ago
          Dahmer said the same thing about cannibalism.
          • jojobas3 hours ago
            Stay mad.
            • colordrops2 hours ago
              Don't stay ignorant.

              Anger is a reasonable response to abuse and exploitation of sentient beings.

  • EveryonePoops5 hours ago
    [dead]