152 pointsby knackers7 hours ago19 comments
  • jmcgough5 hours ago
    I've been absolutely loving the decomp projects that have been coming out lately. Huge props to the writer for this, Snowboard Kids is a real gem.

    I'd also encourage people to check out the Legend of Dragoon recomp [1]. It's a real labor of love that has breathed new life into a largely abandoned game. You can play it fully vanilla, or with improved graphics, fixes to cumbersome design choices, bugfixes, etc.

    [1] https://legendofdragoon.org/projects/severed-chains/

    • melony3 hours ago
      Any advances in emulators recently? I would love to see Nintendo get into a legal tussle with Big AI. Giant douche can fight turd sandwiches.
      • minimaxir3 hours ago
        Aside from Switch emulators which get C&D by Nintendo due to private key copyright infringement issues, nothing with existing emulators would cause a legal tussle. AI has zero impact on it.
        • bakugo2 hours ago
          > due to private key copyright infringement issues

          None of the Switch emulators Nintendo took down had such issues, they all required supplying your own keys.

          Nintendo takes them down anyway because they can, and because they have enough money that no individual can fight them on it. Their takedowns have no real legal standing, and there's no reason why they couldn't do the same for every other emulator, other than them simply not wanting to.

    • 2 hours ago
      undefined
  • hombre_fatal6 hours ago
    It's pretty amazing what you can do when you embrace LLMs, figure out how to build one high-quality rigorous project with them, and then start working on more projects.

    You become a machine with your workflow, once again limited only by your time/energy, tokens, and your discretion on how to spend it.

    • plastic-enjoyer5 hours ago
      > It's pretty amazing what you can do when you embrace LLMs, figure out how to build one high-quality rigorous project with them, and then start working on more projects.

      Indeed. But I think it's fair to say that just embracing LLMs is not enough.

      • hombre_fatal5 hours ago
        I'd consider embracing to include developing expertise in the tool.
    • bitwize4 hours ago
      It's 2026. Not using AI is deliberately hobbling yourself. You won't be able to produce as good code, nearly as fast.
      • VCFundedGenYer3 hours ago
        Using AI is cognitive surrender. It's not your code, it's not your work.
        • agiacalonean hour ago
          When I was in high school, graphing calculators were pretty new. New enough that most teachers had not yet encountered them.

          I was a pretty nerdy kid even then, and I saw graphing calculator as 'portable computer' in 1993! So, of course I wanted one.

          When our teachers found about them, they banned the use of graphing calculators, some teachers going so far as to only allowing 'four-bangers' (a basic one) for classes lower than Trig (I never got to Calc in high school).

          Funny, but your statement reminded me of what one of math teachers used to say: "If you use a graphing calculator, you aren't doing math." It seems really quaint today.

        • 9402732920202 hours ago
          Using automated looms or wearing textiles woven by it is cognitive surrender. It's not your fabric, it's not your work.
        • nickysielicki41 minutes ago
          Actually it is your code and it is your work.
        • onlyrealcuzzo2 hours ago
          Using typewriters is surrender!

          Not your handwriting, not your work!

          • some-guy2 hours ago
            I use AI all the time for coding, but a tool that non-deterministically reaches potentially a different output than I would have produced myself is not analogous to typewriters.
          • bakugo2 hours ago
            I think it's pretty telling that the only response techbros have to that is some form of false equivalence, every single time.
          • unknownfuturean hour ago
            If you can't see why your analogy is deeply broken I honestly don't know what to do for you.
            • LPisGoodan hour ago
              It’s not clear to me why people believe determinism has some special property.
              • bad_haircut7218 minutes ago
                When you read the code thats been generated and submit it as a PR it becomes deterministic
        • TuxSHan hour ago
          IMO it's fine if you use it to review hand-written code. Vibe-coding (and especially 100% slop projects) on the other hand, is indeed cognitive surrender as it's identical to cheating on homework back then.
        • LPisGoodan hour ago
          Could you not say the same about using a compiler or higher level language or a library you don’t understand or an algorithm you don’t understand or a chip that you don’t understand?
      • bakugo2 hours ago
        > You won't be able to produce as good code

        This says more about you than anything else. You weren't able to produce good code before AI, and you are not producing good code after AI.

  • amjnsx5 hours ago
    I’m surprised the game companies themselves aren’t interested in these projects.

    Seems like easy money to just decompile a retro game, add some quality of life improvements and stick it on steam.

    Are their hands tied by legal or what other factors are preventing this?

    • Teknoman1175 hours ago
      > Are their hands tied by legal

      Yes.

      Even if you're the owner of the game, the contracts for the voice actors, motion capture, models, etc. frequently define very narrow terms of usage. Defining the exact release platforms is common. Not to mention profit sharing if the actors or studios you're hiring are popular.

      It's even worse for retro games. Many times the original rights holder went out of business, sold their rights, died, or something else that muddies the ownership chain.

    • godwinson__4-85 hours ago
      Yes many games are caught up in IP hell.

      Including the one my username is inspired by. It's why you see a lot of fan remakes. Another sad side effect of corporate owned IP is also a lot of times the individuals who did the bulk of the work on something can't be the ones to do a remake. They don't own their own work. A company owns it. That's what most of us sign up for to get a paycheck. But when it's something like film or games, the effect on artists or designers can be pretty depressing.

      So yes, games are not unique in this way. I am hopeful in the optimistic future case where LLMs lead to lower barriers to entry, UBI, and so forth that copyright essentially disappears, or at the very least is severely reformed.

      Many things should simply enter the public domain at a far more accelerated rate.

      • quacked3 hours ago
        I think that we should change copyright law such that

        1) Rights can't be held by corporations, only individuals. So the rights to a piece of art or IP would always trace down to a list of names.

        2) Everything enters the public domain after 20 years or the death of the entire list of ownership.

        • glimshean hour ago
          That would be a tough change... An easier one, which is how things used to be, that everything enters public domain IF not renewed after X years (let's say 20). Abandoned or complex IP would just become public domain unless the owners themselves figure things out and demonstrate interest with the renewal process. Even a modest fee would lead to a huge gain without much friction for the true rights holders.
        • no-name-here2 hours ago
          > Rights can't be held by corporations, only individuals. So the rights to a piece of art or IP would always trace down to a list of names.

          Isn't the current system setup around the idea that the company gets the rights, and in return the workers get a basically risk-free salary? Wouldn’t your proposal undo that, so then workers took on the risk of whether they got paid, based on whether the game ends up being profitable?

    • wombat-man5 hours ago
      I don't know how they made it, but there was a GoldenEye made for Xbox 360 that seems to only update the UI. The controls are maybe a little different, but you can swap between original and updated renderer in game. Anyway, they couldn't ship in the end due to legal stuff.
  • thebruce87m4 hours ago
    Mildly related, but I have been waiting for goldeneye to be decompiled for a while but before that process has finished there is has been a spiritual successor(?) made that has scratched the single-player itch for me: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1574480/Agent_64_Spies_Ne...

    Worth a look if you want a bit of nostalgia.

  • JLO644 hours ago
    > One small but useful improvement was to give every task an explicit deadline and expose that deadline to the agent.

    I’m really curious about trying this myself. Recently I’ve been handing off tasks for agents to complete on their own more and more. While their work is acceptable I’ve found them to not only take a long time to complete it, but they often add too much complexity and tests.

  • tigen4 hours ago
    What's the legal status of these?

    Historically there was a notion of "clean room" reimplementation.

    These days it seems people translate the actual game code into a different representation of that same code and that makes it open source? Github is full of these.

    • Sesse__2 hours ago
      > Historically there was a notion of "clean room" reimplementation

      These projects start off with the original assembly code and use it actively throughout all stages. This is about as far away from clean room as you get.

    • bri3d2 hours ago
      It seems like it could go either way to me in the US (not a lawyer, but someone who has a fair amount of experience in reverse engineering / fair use issues).

      On the one hand, it is fairly clear that producing source code with the explicit goal of reproducing a 1:1 binary is in no way transformative, so that's out. This would be a really hard argument to even attempt.

      On the other hand, these projects are mostly free, intended for owners of the game to play the original game on a different platform or in a modified format, and not likely to have a negative effect on the original work's desirability or value. And, the reproductions aren't complete and alone usually produce limited to no value to a consumer (usually, they won't start without the original game files). These are the other important factors considered in fair use determinations and generally go the way of these being OK.

      So, it's hard to say. With reverse engineering and copyright in the US in general, context is crucially important; something that would be completely illegal for one purpose (ie - decompiling and recompiling a competitor's software to distribute it without a license or use it internally without purchasing it would be obviously illegal) could be OK for another one.

      • jonhohle6 minutes ago
        > it is fairly clear that producing source code with the explicit goal of reproducing a 1:1 binary is in no way transformative, so that's out. This would be a really hard argument to even attempt.

        Absolutely false. There are an infinite number of programs that will compile to the same machine code. Especially when an optimizer is involved. Discovering one of those is a creative process, transformative, and protected.

        Using an LLM to do it for you? I wouldn’t touch that with a 10 foot pole. Seems to close to mechanical transformation to me.

      • ndriscoll2 hours ago
        In a sane world, if brought before a court, the binary itself wouldn't have any protection unless hand authored. The actual creative work/human expression was the source code. The entire point of compiling is to strip that extra data out, leaving pure functional logic that doesn't even strictly match the source logic thanks to optimization.

        Then a freshly written project would be completely different with no derivative elements at all; the only commonality between the two codebases is their functional elements. You can compile a decomp into the same binary, but that's only to prove functional equivalence. The intended mode would be with a modern compiler that completely rewrites the logic (it might even have to if it writes it for a completely different computer architecture, which describes every retro console game). Then neither the source nor the compiled artifact would match.

        • bri3dan hour ago
          > The entire point of compiling is to strip that extra data out, leaving pure functional logic that doesn't even strictly match the source logic thanks to optimization.

          I strongly disagree with this notion from even a conceptual (much less legal) level; the point of compilation is not to erase the algorithms the programmer implemented, just to optimize and implement them.

          > You can compile a decomp into the same binary, but that's only to prove functional equivalence.

          This is like saying that a translated book is only "functionally" identical to the original; there's a lot of precedent in copyright law for this not being the case, and I don't think any argument revolving around the transformativeness of the compilation process would fly at all.

    • ipsod3 hours ago
      Clean room might get you past copyrighted code, but surely it won't get you past trademarks or copyrighted artistic work?
      • bri3d2 hours ago
        Most of these projects carefully distribute only the source code representation of the binaries, for this reason, relying on the consumer to acquire / own the art assets and copyrighted material (logos, trademarks, etc.).
        • charcircuit2 hours ago
          The code assets are just as copyright encumbered as the art assets.
          • jonhohle3 minutes ago
            None of the original source code exists in these projects. It’s all created from scratch.

            Copyright for this new code is owned by the person doing decompilation. No one knows how similar to the original it is or not, just that it compiles to the same output.

          • bri3dan hour ago
            Yes, I agree with you (see my sibling post), but it's not what the post I replied to was saying.
    • charcircuit2 hours ago
      Historically these projects have gone to match byte for byte recreations which ensures that they are derivative works making them infringing copyright.
  • cpriest2 hours ago
    For people who've done matching decomps: what burned the most calendar time for you, toolchain freeze or the last 5% of non-matching functions?
  • jaydayvis5 hours ago
    I think Marx is rolling in his grave over the tirelessly expended human to recreate what almost definitely already exists on a floppy sitting in some “IP - Do Not Touch” lock box. But maybe endless puzzles for ever cleverer people is the point of it all.
  • NooneAtAll32 hours ago
    I'm still baffled by RE community aiming for "100% asm match", needing to reproduce specific compiler version, instead of aiming for functional equivalence and cleaner code

    is there really no tools whatsoever that produce proof certificates for "these two functions do the same thing"?

    • Jegber2 hours ago
      Game behavior can be tied so closely to quirky hardware behavior that I doubt such a tool would be simple to create. You’d have to verify that your code produces the same hardware state. And different (ie more efficient) code almost by definition produces a different hardware state than the original code. Thus changing the game.
    • unknownfuturean hour ago
      Because byte-for-byte identical output is far easier to measure than trying to test for functional equivalence.

      This is also partly a preservation activity so (as best we can create it) identical code generating identical output is a big part of the point.

  • rjrjrjrj3 hours ago
    I don’t remember this game at all - and there weren’t many N64 games, especially in the first couple of years.
    • Larrikin3 hours ago
      It and the sequel were among two of the best multiplayer games on the system. It was so sad to see the series die when it went portable instead of continuing to be a ton of fun.
      • rjrjrjrj3 hours ago
        Interesting.

        For me it was Goldeneye (of course) and Diddy Kong Racing.

  • globi4 hours ago
    LLMs are truly amazing and I hope those decomp will keep coming! I am currently watching the Test Drive Unlimited decompilation project, which seems to use a mix of LLM decomp and actual engine improvement (porting the game to Vulkan and a new physics engine instead of Havok): https://github.com/opentestdriveunlimited/OpenTestDriveUnlim...
  • rowanG0775 hours ago
    Its really great how we can breathe new life into older games like this. I'm currently working solo on a Tales of Symphonia gamecube decomp. My aim is to let AI do everything of substance. currently about 3400 functions are exact out of about 4800. So still a way to go. But I haven't written a single line yet.
    • StilesCrisis4 hours ago
      How did you get started? I have a project in mind and would love to try, but getting a foothold on it feels really hard when you are starting with an ISO image and an empty folder.
      • rowanG0773 hours ago
        For gamecube games you are in luck because there is a template: https://github.com/encounter/dtk-template

        But in essence it's not so complex. You only need the original compiler that was used to compile the game and tools like ghidra. Binutils for the architecture can help. From there you ask the agent to start building the project. Prepare to spend a ton of tokens though if you go the full AI route.

  • beepbooptheoryan hour ago
    Does decompiling a game made by a certain development team help decompile others made by the same people? Because you might know what patterns to look for?
  • ThrowawayTestr5 hours ago
    Awesome. Hopefully AI will allow more games to be decompiled in the future. Anyone working on a decomp of Perfect Dark?
    • QuantumNomad_5 hours ago
      https://github.com/n64decomp/perfect_dark claims to be “a complete decompilation of Perfect Dark for the Nintendo 64”. And: “When a matching decompilation is compiled with the same compiler that the original developers used, the output will be exactly the same as the retail game, byte for byte.”

      Relatedly, https://github.com/perfect-dark-pc-port/perfect_dark forked from the above describes itself as “a work-in-progress port of the Perfect Dark decompilation to modern platforms”. Further: “The game is in a mostly functional state, with both singleplayer and split-screen multiplayer modes fully working. There are minor graphics- and gameplay-related issues, and possibly occasional crashes.”

  • qarl235 minutes ago
    I've been having very good luck getting genuine code "understanding" decompiling various arcade games (Donkey Kong, Time Pilot, etc.)

    I'm wondering if you might have success with your project using the same techniques. Reach out - I'd love to collaborate.

    https://www.qarl.com/arcade-js/web/

  • jdw645 hours ago
    I love the game Monster Hunter2 so much that I once practiced decompiling it. I worked on it for about two months and got maybe 5% done. Sometimes I really admire people who do this kind of decompilation work.
  • minimaxir5 hours ago
    It's especially annoying that LLMs/agents are a logical starting point for decompiling old games but there is a significant backlash against it as the gaming community is very anti-AI and consumers of the benefits decompiling offers tend to be noncoders who don't believe that AI can do more than slop. I've seen takes such as "they're too lazy to learn C++" and accepting a PR from someone using Claude taints the project irrevocably.
    • fizwidget15 minutes ago
      I think the backlash isn’t necessarily against the decomp itself, but rather the sloppy/buggy PC ports that often come from it.

      In my mind using an LLM to assist with decompiling is fine, as the output is provably correct. It either compiles to the original binary or it doesn’t.

      Turning that into a playable PC game with controls that feel good, etc, is a different story. That requires human taste & judgement.

    • trelbutate4 hours ago
      to be fair much of the fun in decompiling/RE is the puzzle solving, it's like a giant crossword puzzle that you fill in bit by bit, slowly figuring out how things work. Having an LLM do large parts of that for you is probably kinda boring for many.
      • spijdar4 hours ago
        The problem isn't that people consider it boring, it's that the use of LLMs is considered essentially sacrilegious, and whatever end-result that's created is considered tainted, often regardless of the extent of LLM usage.

        Which does kind of suck. Yeah, it's not nearly as cool to say "I prompted a probabilistic pile of tensors and it did the hard work for me", and I think it majorly adjusts how "impressive" projects are. There's no point pretending like decompiling a game by hand and using GPT-6.7 to do it are remotely comparable.

        The suck-y part is that if you do the decomp with GPT-6.7 and produce, say, a PC port of an early 2000s console game, a large number of people will refuse to touch it and treat it as if you have committed a cardinal sin. Maybe that's justified? I dunno. It definitely goes beyond people just saying it isn't as fun.

        • miladyincontrol3 hours ago
          Its curious the cultural differences you see in some places too, a not too uncommon Japanese one I've seen is where the cardinal sin is "stealing" other people's creative works, rather than anything specifically involving LLMs.

          Meanwhile so many westerners see LLMs as "stealing IP", it becomes a bit paradoxical where the lines get drawn.

          • SpecialistK2 hours ago
            Even Japanese attitudes towards IP are not that clear cut. One of the reasons the MiniDisc format was so popular in Japan vs the rest of the world was that physical media in Japan is expensive, so there are stores which rent out CDs. Those CDs would often be copied to MD (or later to PCs.)
    • fzeroracer3 hours ago
      The backlash has only been growing as the result of a significant number of incredibly sloppy decomps, either creating unreadable codebases or outright being so buggy/inaccurate as to be useless. Every day I see another decomp pop up that exists solely for the cred of being the first to do so, which is then promptly abandoned by the developer because it doesn't fucking work.
    • doctorpangloss5 hours ago
      on the flip side retro games are almost completely and entirely an aesthetic experience. like if something totally subjective and personal like nostalgia is not just a valid reason, but the #1 reason, to be engaged with retro gaming, why isn't some random condition about the process of resurrecting the games also valid?

      i think you agree that there is. but it should change your language about this idea of "consumers" and "benefits" - like this is the difference between making code and making a product. nobody NEEDS retro games. in my opinion, they aren't even that good! they are completely and utterly an aesthetic experience. the process IS the product.

      • Levitz4 hours ago
        If the process is the product, then anyone who is not involved with the process has no right to say anything about the product.

        Not to mention, there's a lot of stuff beyond an "aesthetic experience". Videogames have historical value, and they have relevancy at the very least as a testament of the state of the industry at any given point.

        Legend of Dragoon, for example, integrated QTE-like controls in its attacks, even as a turn-based game. FFVIII, released the same year, implemented interaction in a somewhat similar way. These two are very early predecessors to mechanics Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 much more recently used. That has value.

        If anyone wants to establish random conditions as to why they consider a work to be worthy or not, they may have those. But then they should keep them to themselves, rather than pretending people shouldn't care about something because of the way it was done. It's like the classic situation of someone complaining about how some open source project doesn't do something exactly in the way they like. I have nothing but contempt and despise for that sort of people, and it's a whole order of magnitude worse here, where the "problem" stems from their political stance, which nobody with a pulse should give a crap about.

        • doctorpangloss3 hours ago
          [left hand emoji] you have very strong feelings about something, you're sharing it with others on a public forum

          [right hand emoji] "their political stance"... "they should keep them to themselves"

  • throwaway6137462 hours ago
    [dead]
  • VCFundedGenYer3 hours ago
    Unfortunately, the community will not accept an AI-assisted decomp. Gotta do it for real.