61 pointsby Sir_Twist6 hours ago9 comments
  • mrob33 minutes ago
    >Everything these days is glass and refresh rates

    The higher the display refresh rate the metaphorically "quieter" the computer. Discrete frames introduce latency, phantom array effect, and (on most displays) sample-and-hold blur. These don't exist in real life, so they weaken the illusion of the computer becoming part of your body, like a pencil or a hand tool. A computer that can be operated with minimum cognitive load needs a display refresh rate of at least 1000 Hz.

  • jtrn18 minutes ago
    What a wholsome and inclusive site. Page title reads “fix your heart or die”. Spread the love indeed.
    • kuloku3 minutes ago
      What an useless and sad comment. I’m a very sorry indeed that you felt threatened by someone expressing themselves about a genuine societal problem.

      Do you at least take the time to read the text, or did you stop as soon as your transphobia kicked in ?

    • adultSwim13 minutes ago
      This is my sincere response.
  • andai4 hours ago
    I tried clicking the "#551A8B streaks" link, looking forward to reading a rant about websites overriding link color (and link underlines to boot!)

    But I was bamboozled! The link wasn't a link. It was just colored text! My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.

    That said, this is a very cool website.

  • bibabaloo4 hours ago
    There's precedent here in things like fast food vs. farm to table, mass produced goods vs arts and craft, digital photography vs film. Yet at least in my social circle, I don't really hear anyone pining for an 'artisan internet'. Maybe it's because the internet is seen more as a tool than something to experience. Or maybe it's because we're still early in the 'mass produced internet' age. Or maybe network effects make transitioning away from the big networks to smaller ones difficult, unless you're only communicating with online-first groups. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future, because right now it certainly seems like things are trending in the opposite direction.
    • benrutteran hour ago
      > Yet at least in my social circle, I don't really hear anyone pining for an 'artisan internet'.

      It definitely is a thing at least, to pine for the "small web" [0].

      I think as well, dissatisfaction with major social networks is pretty widespread, I don't know how often it comes.alongside a pining for something more "artisinal" though.

      [0] https://ar.al/2020/08/07/what-is-the-small-web/

    • artisinal2 hours ago
      Perhaps we can make internet forums trendy again. Those are artisanal by nature. Only user generated content. Strict moderation.
      • wolvoleo2 hours ago
        It's very difficult these days in the EU. With all the regulations around age verification, the requirement to work with police, having a privacy and cookie policy, a moderation policy, all that crap that the politicians force not just on the big ones that need it but also the little forum run by the one kid in his bedroom.

        Some countries like Germany also require legal contact information (an Impressum). Technically it even applies to sites outside Germany that Germans can visit, though they don't really have a way of enforcing that. So basically if you have a website you're required to doxx yourself. The old web is not just being destroyed by big tech but by the politicians as well.

        It's kinda time for a semi-darknet free from all the legislation. Tor is a bit too dark for it but it would be good to have some kind of anonimised hobby net that can escape all this red tape. Basically the free for all that the internet used to be in the late 90s.

        • embedding-shape30 minutes ago
          > It's very difficult these days in the EU. With all the regulations around age verification, the requirement to work with police, having a privacy and cookie policy, a moderation policy, all that crap that the politicians force not just on the big ones that need it but also the little forum run by the one kid in his bedroom.

          I don't think that's true across EU. Seemingly very non-traditional forums, huge ones, stay online still today, many hosted within EU. Probably Flashback Forum is one of the oldest and biggest forums in Nordics, geared towards "freedom of speech" and still online today.

          Sounds like it's very difficult in Germany indeed to host an anonymous or pseudoanonymous website/forum, but Germany is also not the entire EU or Europe.

        • traceroute6634 minutes ago
          > Some countries like Germany also require legal contact information (an Impressum). Technically it even applies to sites outside Germany that Germans can visit

          I don't understand people bitching about Impressum like its some sort of German-only thing.

          I am sure if you looked at the legislation of many countries, you would find similar requirements for companies to identify themselves. Off the top of my head you have Austria, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, UK ... and probably the rest of the EU/EEA states as well. IIRC it is also a requirement in a number of Asian countries.

          In reality requiring an Impressum (or equivalent in other countries) is no different to having to put identification information on a company's old-school letterhead. Its just good manners so that your customers/suppliers can know who they are dealing with.

          Personally I dislike the US attitude of trying your damnest to hide any trace of your company's identifying or contact information from your website. ;)

          • wolvoleoa few seconds ago
            Well that's probably because Germany is one of the few countries that actually enforces it. I'm in Spain and I've helped build some websites and none of them had anything like this. But in Spain there's a huge difference between law and enforcement so many laws don't actually matter in practice. Whereas in Germany they do try to enforce it even outside of their borders.
        • fauigerzigerk44 minutes ago
          >all that crap that the politicians force not just on the big ones that need it but also the little forum run by the one kid in his bedroom

          It's bad enough but not quite as bad as you claim. Article 19 of the DSA exempts small websites from the most onerous and expensive rules that big platforms have to comply with.

          https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2022/2065/oj/eng

          • wolvoleo41 minutes ago
            That's only the DSA, it's only a small part of web regulation in the EU.

            Overall there is very little in the way of exceptions for small businesses. Similarly with the EPR / PPWR changes that went into effect on the 12th of August, a lot of owner-operated microbusinesses have had to stop shipping to many EU countries due to the crazy costs of registration (which has to be done in each individual EU country no less, totally contrary to the idea of the EU): https://ppwrconnect.com/blog/ppwr-applies-12-august-2026-who...

            Some artists send only one padded envelope to some countries (or none, in some years) and have to deal with hundreds of euros of registration cost for some countries. It's ridiculous. There's 2 little pieces of relief for microbusiness but most of the crazy red tape applies.

            The problem with their regulation is that the big ones that were meant to be targeted (e.g. Google and Meta) have plenty of lawyers to sidestep all the regulation, and the small initiatives are all killed because they don't have such capabilities. We're still tracked by Google and Meta everywhere.

            And then there was the 3 euro per product type surcharge on small packets, making it impossible for small artists to buy items that cost 20-30 cents a piece. Legislation lobbied for by the big buck chains like Lidl and Ahold.

            To be honest I'm now strongly in favour of reeling in the EU project to simply some economic treaties and easy movement of people because they've become a stringpuppet for big business lobby. Definitely not some big federal state (we've seen where that path leads in America)

            • fauigerzigerk21 minutes ago
              >That's only the DSA, it's only a small part of web regulation in the EU

              Absolutely, but the context was small online forums. I don't disagree with the gist of your general criticism.

      • conceptionan hour ago
        Discord took this place.
    • walrus014 hours ago
      > Yet at least in my social circle, I don't really hear anyone pining for an 'artisan internet'.

      In network engineering and telecom infrastructure circles, there's already a near universal opinion that big walled garden mass market social media (facebook, instagram, twitter, whatever) are permanently ruined and good only for shitposting. Or keeping up with posts from boomer generation / older gen-x relatives who don't know any better and won't use any other method to communicate.

      Anything serious has moved into things like private Signal groups where the participants all know each other, and similar.

      I also find it interesting to see people who started in-depth technical use of the internet well after 2010 "discovering" the concept of self hosting and running some of their own infrastructure, or even getting entirely fed up and removing anything google or microsoft (or similar subscription based) from their lives entirely. These are people who weren't there in the early days of the Internet and are now voluntarily choosing to say "no thanks" to lots of easy to use, subscriber-forever cloud based business models.

      • wolvoleo2 hours ago
        Yes I noticed that chat apps have kinda taken over the role of social media. At least for the usecase of staying in touch with friends.

        I'm sure why too though, it's because all social media push these algorithmic feeds on us meaning we get bombarded with shit we didn't choose to follow.

        With chat apps we can once again communicate with just the people we want without all the crap being shoved in between.

        • navane2 hours ago
          Also chat is private. We went from public but anonymous to private and unanimous.
          • wolvoleoan hour ago
            Well on facebook you could originally choose who you wanted to share things with. Not sure if that's still there because I haven't used it in years.
  • mmackh4 hours ago
    A lot of folks will tell you that computers with less features are the the answer, but over the past couple of years I’ve come to realise that how we interact (keyboard and mouse) with computers now is only one way to do it.

    There’s something about building distraction-free computing, that doesn’t have to be less. I’ve been building something over the past five years, that puts an entire smart home into one device - sensors and microcontrollers have come incredibly far to make it feel a little bit like magic. What I’m getting at is - what if the environment provides input to the computer and not us directly? This would be one way of exploring quieter computing.

    • andai4 hours ago
      What does that look like? It decides which HN link to render based on the angle of the sun?
      • mmackh3 hours ago
        It makes the world your canvas, but the device itself is intentionally screen-less. When you enter home - based on presence, time of day, ambient illuminance, barometric pressure, temperature what do you want to happen? Usually this involves a chain of devices, working together inside a blackbox running on an OS that no one single person can understand. What if all the cruft is abstracted away, and you can actually program and script in highly abstracted APIs what is going to happen. And that logic will last you for years. Or you tell an LLM and it writes the logic (code) for you. Having the logic run local makes the experience easier to reason about - now and in the future.

        So yes, you can write code that calculates the angle of the sun and fire off a web request or email to send you an interesting HN link. But you can do much more...

        [Edit] Again, this is only one approach that changes how we process input to reach a desired output.

        • walrus012 hours ago
          > When you enter home - based on presence, time of day, ambient illuminance, barometric pressure, temperature what do you want to happen? Usually this involves a chain of devices, working together inside a blackbox running on an OS that no one single person can understand.

          A fair bit of this can already be implemented with a workflow that looks like:

          Sensors -> zigbee or zwave -> home assistant

          Or Internet based data -> home assistant (weather, external data, the humidity sensor at your local airport might be more accurate than the one on your deck, etc).

          And then open source extensions/tools built into home assistant to cause things to happen, send external signals, run scripts, call APIs, talk to a local LLM, etc.

          It's very much not a black box of opaque closed source software, rather the opposite, and it has a very active and technically knowledgeable enthusiast development community behind it.

          If we posit for a minute that the data acquisition into locally-run system problem is not impossible to solve, then all kinds of things can be built atop that to serve your own unique home preferences.

          > Having the logic run local

          At the smallest scale people are doing this on raspberry pi, though I have seen people have much more satisfactory results on something with somewhat more system resources like an Intel N150 CPU based mini PC with 12GB RAM.

          Going a bit up a bit in budget from there, people are running home assistant and frigate together on the same tiny system that is a KVM hypervisor (again all open source, no black boxes involved), so that Frigate can have a GPU passed through to it for image object detection/video analysis pipelines.

          • mmackh2 hours ago
            "Sensors -> zigbee or zwave -> home assistant"

            Home assistant gets updated quite frequently and so does the OS that runs beneath it. My point is that the chain you are describing here can be (is) one single device, with no outside dependencies that runs the logic on a room level. Quieter computing is if it works without the constant upkeep.

            • walrus012 hours ago
              Indeed I think there is a lot of work remaining to be done to make a 'it just updates itself and everything is fine' workflow for home assistant as a container on top of a linux-based platform that a completely non technical user never has to worry about.

              Basically something that requires no more level of technical sophistication (zero) than an xbox series x updating its operating system, which requires nothing more than a user to click "okay" and wait for it to reboot, if you power on an xbox and bring it onto the network and its software is several months out of date.

        • whilenot-dev3 hours ago
          > And that logic will last you for years.

          A lot of desires that require computation might not be so "logical" in nature, at least not in the automation kind of things.

          I use a lot of computing for entertainment purposes and leisure activities, like reading news/ebooks, watching shows/movies, listening to music, gaming, clothing/furniture shopping, going into all kinds of rabbit holes etc. The HN link from GP was such an example.

          How could any automation through other physical input help there? Sure, there is vector similarity and recommendation engines, but how could any sensor interpret my aesthetics and my desires to belong/grasp/play/participate?

          That sounds exactly like the empty sci-fi promises that current AI companies are betting on.

          • mmackh2 hours ago
            "I use a lot of computing for entertainment purposes and leisure activities"

            Couldn't agree more. And phones with a touchscreen have been optimised on this axis (ppi, stereo speakers, fps, oled, latency, etc.)

            Examples of logic that you want to last for years: devices you set up for your parents to notify you when they get up in the morning. Or that their air quality and temperature is ok.

            By logic, I mean source code that determines the behaviour of the device.

  • rao-v4 hours ago
    Esp32s with eink displays are pretty much this
  • tietjens3 hours ago
    I expected this to be literally about quieter computers.
    • __MatrixMan__2 hours ago
      Me too. Like maybe we could convert to DC at the breaker box so I didn't have to be haunted by the squealing capacitors in all of the power supplies that are scattered around my house.
  • ktallett2 hours ago
    Often we are missing something in that we don't need to change what we use quite so regularly. We can learn to enjoy tech of the past and still find it useful today. It would both be better for the planet and satisfy our realisation that constant upgrades and changes aren't always needed or even better.

    Does a Canon S90 suddenly take bad photos or take photos that can't be printed? No, of course not, and that's a decade old.

    Can you still write on a Thinkpad X201? Yes of course. If anything, that keyboard is far better.

  • userbinator3 hours ago
    ..and I dream of less activist sites.
    • 30 minutes ago
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    • yawpitchan hour ago
      … so there ye are, ye broken hearted.
    • setnonean hour ago
      yeah all i can see now is this creator wants a bunch of visitors dead, in cursive
      • an hour ago
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      • adultSwim12 minutes ago
        I am more focused on Rem'mie Fells than Lea Thomas.
      • yawpitchan hour ago
        Oh wow, someone on a tech site that doesn’t know how OR works!
        • fragmede14 minutes ago
          Wait, shit. It's OR, not XOR. Instructions unclear. Am dead.