184 pointsby dares25732 hours ago15 comments
  • ciberado2 hours ago
    DS being unable to precisely view Playwright screenshots is the only thing I really miss from Sonnet. This is promising.

    > Images are converted into tokens based on their dimensions, and these tokens are billed together with your text tokens.

    > Before inference, every image is automatically resized:

    > - Images with a total pixel count below roughly 384×384 are scaled up while preserving their aspect ratio.

    > - Larger images are scaled down while preserving their aspect ratio so that the total pixel count after resizing is roughly that of an 800×800 image.

    > As a result, there is an upper bound of 384 tokens per image: for example, a 2000×2000 image and a 5000×5000 image consume the same number of tokens after resizing. When a request contains multiple images, each image is counted independently under the same rule—there is no separate calculation for multi-image requests.

    400 tokens per image results in 2,500 images per dollar, if I’m not mistaken.

    edit: format.

    • knollimar2 hours ago
      Oof 800 by 800 kills a lot of use cases
      • johndoughan hour ago
        Might still be fine. The most recent crop of vLLMs proactively use whichever programs are available on the system (e.g. ImageMagick or PIL) to "zoom in" by cropping subimages if they can't quite make out the details.
      • wongarsuan hour ago
        For most use cases you can fix that in the harness. Just give the model a tool to request a crop of specific coordinates of any image it has in its context. Call the tool "zoom" and it should be intuitive for the model

        Maybe there are some use cases where you need high detail everywhere at once, but for OCR of small text and the like a zoom ability should be sufficient

        • embedding-shapean hour ago
          For really dumb models I've also had success automatically cropping it into a grid of N images with the max size, then processing each cell individually, then once all been processed, do one final call with resized image + all other context previously generated per cell. Basically a workaround to the image dimension restrictions without loosing fidelity. Works well with even dumb 7B models.

          Can't remember if I stole this idea from some existing public harness though, can't remember. If someone knows of public harnesses that do this already, please share them :)

          • dotancohen14 minutes ago
            Does this not loose context? Especially e.g. in fonts where the character pairs 0O 1I 1l Il may be difficult to differentiate?
      • shadyran hour ago
        It might also be due to its experimental status. Wouldn't surprise me if the GA version allows for larger input. Either that or the eventual pro version.
      • asdfsa322 hours ago
        flash vs fine details. Pick one.
        • Doohickey-dan hour ago
          Gemini "flash" models have an option for media resolution, including a high resolution option for screenshots.
  • zmmmmm2 hours ago
    > Larger images are scaled down while preserving their aspect ratio, so that the total pixel count after resizing is roughly that of an 800×800 image.

    It's useful but for OCR and a lot of other applications it needs to be a bit higher (eg: putting in a full A4 / Letter sized page)

  • pu_pean hour ago
  • BrucecarlLan hour ago
    Congratulations! DeepSeek has finally gained eyes — the dark days are about to be behind us.
  • LorenDB2 hours ago
    I've heard that DeepSeek v4 Flash 0731 has frequently assumed that it has vision capabilities and then resorts to inventing text-based image analysis tools when it finds that it actually can't see. In that case, this is a great upgrade for the model.

    Anecdotally, I had to tell 0731 to refrain from viewing screenshots since it kept breaking its sessions by trying to read images.

    • VulgarExigencyan hour ago
      It tried to recreate vision by analyzing pixels on 3 separate projects I had it working on.
  • try-workingan hour ago
    I main V4 Pro at work now, and at home I route between Pro and Flash based on task. Switched to Opus 4.6 for some tasks at work because I needed image input - horrible. So nice to get image input with DS.

    Edit: I see it has limited resolution. Luckily I just built a vision worker plugin for DSH that routes image input to Kimi K2.6 on Cloudflare.

  • 5kyn3t31 minutes ago
    For what do you guys use vision in those models? surveillance is the obvious use case... but are there some "nicer" ways to use it?
    • deaux28 minutes ago
      The obvious use case, especially on HN, is frontend dev of any kind at all. The second most obvious one is OCR of paper documents.
      • 5kyn3t22 minutes ago
        Frontend Dev? I do not really understand. do you let the models analyze the webpages you are working on? or for testing?
        • rpdillon9 minutes ago
          Standard flow with a vision model in OMP is to write the front end code, fire up the server, fire up a headless browser and then take screenshots and examine and iterate. Works great. When I'm using DeepSeek V4 Flash, it always reminds me instead that I have to validate manually by loading up the page.
        • dandaka15 minutes ago
          QA of course. You hook up your agent with CDP access to live product + let it screenshot and look into result. Also you could hook agent with CDP access to Figma to read/write, there a vision model is very useful as well.
      • dandaka19 minutes ago
        but for OCR there are much better suited models, I use mlx-community/PaddleOCR-VL-8bit
    • dandaka17 minutes ago
      My product is connecting employers and workers with conversational agents. They love to communicate with images — CVs, documents, photos of worksites. Even CV-as-photo or offer-as-photo format is very popular. My daily driver Deepseek Flash can't see those photos. So I use image models to let agents understand the context.
    • moonu13 minutes ago
      I've been working on an agentic graphic design tool, so vision is quite useful for having the model check its own work. I'm already seeing improvements with this model vs the text-only one.
    • MagicMoonlight23 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • v9v2 hours ago
    Interesting. Wasn't Deepseek's founder saying that they had explicitly decided not to focus on multimodal models at all and were going text-only because they believed it was enough to achieve AGI?
    • johndough44 minutes ago
      It was explicitly said that they are pursuing multimodal support. A quote from the meeting transcript: https://github.com/demo-zexuan/liang-wenfeng-investor-meetin...

          Nevertheless, as a component, we will undoubtedly implement multimodal support — and we are already doing so. We plan to develop relevant models, ensuring that versions like V4 and subsequent iterations will natively support multimodal functionality.
      
      Earlier, the following was said, which might match more what you had in mind.

          Achieving excellence in AI training does not require a global model or even multimodal approaches—by narrowing the scope of AI training and eliminating multimodality, certain tasks may remain unachievable without compromising the algorithm's validity.
      
          Multimodal approaches ultimately need to be implemented.
      
      It is difficult to tell who said what, since the speaker ids are missing.
    • dakollian hour ago
      I think you're thinking of Dario saying this about image generation.
  • erikkrian hour ago
    Hello Ox Alpha?
  • gozucitoan hour ago
    800x800 is 640,000 pixels, or 0.64 Megapixels. That is less than the resolution of computer screens from 1995, Super VGA which has around 0.79 MPs.

    This is useful for a reasonable amount of use-cases, but I think the watershed rez will be around triple that, ~1080p, which is enough for almost anything, except small text and subtle details.

    • barrkelan hour ago
      You'd expect a tool-enabled model to leverage crop and zoom tools to inspect and validate what it thinks it's seeing, though.
    • dakollian hour ago
      I typically provide small screenshots to llms so this seems fine for that usecase, providing an entire screens context seems cause confusion with a lot of llms.
  • dsrtslnd232 hours ago
    will this be open weights?
    • moonu31 minutes ago
      I imagine this is based on their 'Thinking with Visual Primitives' paper, and they had mentioned that the weights would be released for that
    • dares2573an hour ago
      I believe so. Openness has always been a consistent tradition of DeepSeek
    • griffithsan hour ago
      This is something I would like to know as well.

      But if not, does anybody know a recommended way to attach vision to deepseek flash (on a self-hosted infrastructure)?

  • locitra37 minutes ago
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  • lzy2 hours ago
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  • MagicMoonlight24 minutes ago
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  • jaksdbvqi37uan hour ago
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