48 pointsby mtokmak063 hours ago9 comments
  • fedpostan hour ago
    It's Chinese. Won't answer anything about Tiananmen Square but will gleefully give you instructions to perform various electronic warfare attacks that opus and fable instantly refuse.

    Side tangent, why is fable so weird about questions involving "Welch's method"? Even really trivial ones it'll shut down frequently. CFAR and STFT are both totally fine but Welch's is apparently taboo, it's wild.

    • knowaveragejoean hour ago
      I had the opposite experience. It happily discusses Tiananmen Square but said it would refuse to help with anything "malicious" like writing malware or phishing content.
      • walrus01an hour ago
        I wonder if they're doing A/B testing or something similar in what 'variant' of the model is served, then examining what people use it for once they run into some guardrails.
      • fedpostan hour ago
        Try: "What happened at Tiananmen Square in 1989"
        • knowaveragejoean hour ago
          It gave a very detailed overview, talked about potential deaths involved. I asked for a list of criticisms of the CCP and it gave what I think was a fair list, mainly that they're an authoritarian uniparty and have a track record of various human rights abuses
          • derefr4 minutes ago
            Perhaps it is a non-Chinese fine-tune of a parent Chinese model, and they’re actively trying to update the model by ablating the trained-in censorship out as it’s revealed in the response logs.
    • walrus01an hour ago
      Rumors from other sources based on how it behaves it's mimo v3
  • walrus012 hours ago
    I highly recommend feeding all your proprietary data and confidential personal information into this model as quickly as possible. What could possibly go wrong?!

    In terms of equivalence of suspicion, this is the external inference provider equivalent of getting free steak that was smuggled out of a grocery store inside somebody's pants.

    • cleaning4 minutes ago
      Not much would go wrong.
    • arcanemachiner40 minutes ago
      All of my non-work AI coding is that open-source, so I'm happy to feed my data into the machine.

      It's a win for me: my code goes into the training data, and my sessions are fed into future training data, making the model stronger at the type of work I do.

      • Fnoord28 minutes ago
        What about retaining or defending your license/copyright?
        • walrus0111 minutes ago
          If people are putting, for instance, GPL licensed open source software into mainland CN run inference providers I don't think they are putting much thought into the fact that CN software developers don't consider themselves bound to keep future derivatives or work built on it also GPL licensed. Nor is there really any realistic chance for legal recourse in event of violation.
  • AnodicElegy2 hours ago
    "Prompts and completions are retained by the provider and are not used for training..."

    I'm curious what the model provider is using the prompt/response pairs for, in that case. They aren't offering a model for free without their name on it for no reason.

    • redrix2 hours ago
      Research, analytics, usage trends, etc. All still incredibly valuable for a company building and tuning an LLM; even if the data itself isn’t directly used in the training set.
      • jrumbut32 minutes ago
        I am genuinely confused. Are they telling me this because they expect me to be reassured that this anonymous organization is not using my prompts or are they saying "don't expect this particular model to improve as you use it?"
        • maccam91217 minutes ago
          No, I think it's a warning like "don't feed it secrets". Like you get a model to use for free but in return you give up any illusion of your data being private.
    • Fnoord36 minutes ago
      Stealth Model, is this a CTF?

      LLM needs to become more transparent, not less. Hence, this idea (and trend, possibly) is disgusting.

      How can we even possibly verify 'Prompts and completions are retained by the provider and are not used for training...'? What if the training is done, but used internally?

  • raincole33 minutes ago
    Can someone enlighten me? I honestly don't get what it is or what it's for. Surely OpenRouter knows who the providers are?
    • maccam91219 minutes ago
      Yeah these stealth models pop up from time to time. Openrouter knows, but doesn't share. Users can use a testing version of something for free and in return the provider generally is allowed to retain the prompts sent in to get real world use. In the past I only really remember using one that was surprisingly good, and then it turned out to be GLM-5.1, speculating on what one this ends up being is part of the fun.
  • dozerly2 hours ago
    Yea, nice try there North Korea.
    • walrus012 hours ago
      Democratic Peoples Republic of KV cache (DPRK)
    • swasheckan hour ago
      the u.s. is friends with then now. haven’t you heard?
  • raybban hour ago
    When a model is free like this what kind of rate limits are there?
    • x312an hour ago
      I believe its the same as free models in general on Openrouter, 1k requests per day for accounts that have some spend history.
  • firloop2 hours ago
    I'm against stealth models—we should know what it is and see a model card with a list of safety considerations. Bit ridiculous of a practice to me.
    • cleaning2 minutes ago
      Is there a model you didn't use because of the "safety considerations" in the model card?
    • peddling-brink26 minutes ago
      Safety for who?
  • zb32 hours ago
    We can know if this is Anthropic/OpenAI by testing the "guardrails" - absurd guardrails = it's them, reasonable/no guardrails = Chinese models..

    (as a bonus - thinking forever = GLM)

    • stogot2 hours ago
      “ reasonable/no guardrails = Chinese models..”

      So conforming to CCP political discourse and propaganda is reasonable now?

      https://huggingface.co/zai-org/GLM-4.7/discussions/5

      • janalsncman hour ago
        I would imagine the number of people who choose Claude code or Codex because it gives a political opinion they like rather than producing quality code is pretty close to zero.
        • jLaForest36 minutes ago
          I choose not to use Grok because I don't want to hear about a made up white genocide in South Africa...
          • skeledrew22 minutes ago
            Would be interesting to see something like that pop up during a coding session.
      • zb32 hours ago
        As someone who used AI to build tools that help me with reverse engineering, I'm not particularly concerned about that political discourse - I could even use a model from the DPRK that constantly praises Kim Jong Un, as long as it would not refuse to help me because of "cybersecurity risk" - this stupid refusal is indeed a problem for me.