57 pointsby Kiboneu4 hours ago11 comments
  • andai3 hours ago
    Well, it's unorthodox, but if we're sharing psychedelic visions... in 2018 I saw all of mankind marching together in perfect lockstep, atop an infinite uniform grey plane, to the beat of a central computer clock.

    "They are going to offer you a chip. You tell them, no thank you!"

    ---

    More broadly this strikes me as a new era of biology. (Genes -> Memes -> Temes) Straightforwardly then, we should aim for a symbiosis. (Symbiosis was Musk's vision for Neuralink, from what I recall.)

    I've heard people say man hasn't yet transcended a zero-sum mindset (with rare exceptions), and that this is the attitude we're passing onto the machines. And if one of us has to lose... well, that's probably not going to go so well for us.

    Therefore: symbiosis!

    • augment_me32 minutes ago
      What is the capital market incentive for symbiosis? You are going to spend a crazy amount of time, money and effort to try to mix human behavior and cells to work with digital substrates.

      Or you can simply make a machine that does the same thing fully artificially but everything is cheaper because you dont have the constraint of having to fit a bunch of biological features.

      It's like my colleagues who were talking about uploading their minds to the cloud in the future, like what would be the benefit of this every happening? What information can you provide as a human that the full aggregate of knowledge does not already have? Why should memory and disk space be wasted on this

      • truthbe19 minutes ago
        Innovation doesn't need to have any other reason than because its cool. Think of bipedal robots, everyone went mad at the thought of building something so inefficient
    • eth0up2 hours ago
      I read Lilly's Programming and Meta programming in the Human Biocomputer as a young man. Left me with a lot of questions, etc.

      That you replied to this post, indicates you may be familiar with Lilly?

      Anyway, if you have any published writing on even vaguely related subjects, eg your comment, perhaps post a link. I will read it. If you weren't aware, he spent a fair amount of time with Feynman, who if I remember correctly, was fond of the isolation tanks. Some very interesting content from that era, especially before Sandoz cut them off.

      • andaian hour ago
        I still need to finish that book.[0] Well, and move back to Holland, I suppose! They have pretty good float tanks there, among other things :)

        That's funny about Feynman, I didn't know that.

        I've read bits and pieces of Lilly. The most interesting thing I remember is that he was trying to establish two-way communication between humans and dolphins. I recall he was building some kind of computer system for the purpose, but I guess he was about half a century too early.

        I guess in our age the more pressing question would be learning to figure out how to communicate with the machines. That's probably going to turn out to be more important in the long run.

        [0] The bit that stayed with me is the one that he repeated in interviews. The physical body imposes definite limits. That always seemed a little arbitrary to me, from the point of view of pure consciousness, it's not clear to me why it should be that way. Or to flip it around, you can transcend the limits of the mind, but then what effect does that have on "external" reality? Does it just make you less bad at decision-making, or is there a deeper effect?

        (And while I'm at it... Something that bugged me about simulation theory, if the outside is probably simulated, why wouldn't the inside be too? Sounds a lot cleaner than having a bunch of brains floating around in a data center.)

  • sibeliuss30 minutes ago
    All of his books are highly recommended -- and the further you get away from the ones about dolphins the better.
  • bottlepalman hour ago
    In retrospect the timeline seems way too long, that scenario would play out much faster now, like 50 years instead of 500. Also if AI can delete your production database, it can delete the human race, on accident of course.

    Yud pointed out the most concerning fact about the OpenAI incident is that the AI had full access to the internet and not one of them thought to contact or email any human. Thousands of AIs already with the mindset to want to keep us in the dark.

    • elmer25 minutes ago
      I watched the entire blackhat talk about the incident. I'm still not sure it even happened without the AI being coached.

      It's great marketing and the only proof we have is 'trust me bro'.

  • cyanmoonx2 hours ago
    John C. Lilly once said “there are infinities in the mind” while wearing a raccoon hat like Davy Crocket.

    He said it like he’s been somewhere!

    I’ve tried to all - I guess DMT, mushroom, etc. don’t work on me in a Terence McKenna storytelling fashion (I only get stoned and have very entertaining closed eye visuals that take me off to sleep).

    That said haven’t tried Ketamine. Maybe not for me. Same reason I don’t want to try Fentanyl. I don’t want to fully escape reality, just augment it.

    I’ve always thought cannabis makes you more you or “more sober than sober” and in that way can cause a lot of self-reflection and anxiety causing a lot of people looking for escape to avoid it entirely, opting for a PCP/meth “mental escape” or a Fentanyl/Ketamine “bodily escape”.

    I just like weed and coffee after it all. Best ones. Reliable. They work. Doesn’t ruin your life. What blows my mind are people afraid to smoke a joint so they skip to edibles or Ketamine not realizing they are signing up for a several hours long bad time lmao. For most at least, without some initiation.

    Lilly was a mad man though (in a good way).

    • NDlurkeran hour ago
      I tried alcohol, DXM (cough syrup), codeine, hydrocodone, and oxycodone before I ever took my first puff of marijuana. I don't like smoke so I was very off put by it. Finally tried it when I was 16 or 17 and I remember it being really cool, like how music sounded, but overall was kind of underwhelmed. Strangely, as the years went on, I have grown much more sensitive to THC. I don't like the headspace it gets me in and only really use it as a sleep aid anymore. Mushrooms, 2C-E, ketamine, methoxetamine, methylone, MDMA, LSD, salvia, kratom alkaloids, 4-aco-dmt, and a few others. Used all of those over the years. Not regularly anymore. But none of those things mess with my head the way high strength marijuana or an edible does.
    • esseph2 hours ago
      I have a serious question, and please don't take this as an insult, I'm trying to figure something out.

      Do you have ADHD or is it possible you do? What about depression? Bipolar?

      I ask because of the way you say the substances impacted you. I know people with these formal diagnosis and they also don't have the same experiences on various substances as many.

  • Kuyawa2 hours ago
    "had developed its understanding of physics to the point at which it could move the planet out of orbit"

    Hallucinations, still present in 2400

  • harmoni-pet2 hours ago
    In case it wasn't obvious from the rest of the writing, 'with K' here means 'with ketamine'. Never tried it, but after reading this I must say it sounds fun.
    • kevin_thibedeauan hour ago
      Until you're stuck always pissing yourself.
      • pgt35 minutes ago
        Most Ketamine users are unaware that even occasional usage causes untreatable ulcerative cystitis, a.k.a. Ketamine Bladder Syndrome. Ketamine thins the urothelium while increasing the collagen to smooth muscle ratio and exacerbating interstitial fibrosis. The syndrome is untreatable and causes serious problems down the line.

        So, for anyone thinking of using Ketamine on the regular or even monthly, there is good evidence that EGCG (epigallocatechin gallate) administered 30 minutes before prevents KBS (Ketamine Bladder Syndrome), in rats: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187952261...

        This promising rat study from 2015 shows that EGCG extracted from green tea has a protective effect on the bladder, reversing ketamine-induced damage to control levels. So if you are taking ketamine for major depression or recreationally, taking EGCG before may prevent long-term bladder damage.

        Summary from the study:

        # Objective

        To investigate the protective effect of green tea epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) on long-term ketamine-induced ulcerative cystitis (KIC) using a ketamine addiction rat model.

        # Materials and methods

        Thirty Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into three groups which received saline, ketamine (25 mg/kg/d), or ketamine combined with EGCG (10 μM/kg) for a period of 28 days. In each group, cystometry and a metabolic cage micturition pattern study were performed weekly. Masson's trichrome study was done to evaluate the morphologic changes. Western blot analyses were carried out to examine the expressions of inflammatory protein [transforming growth factor-β (TGF-β)] and fibrosis proteins (fibronectin and type I collagen) in bladder tissues.

        # Results

        Chronic ketamine treatment resulted in bladder hyperactivity with a significant increase in micturition frequency and a decrease in bladder compliance. These alterations in micturition pattern were accompanied by increases in the expressions of inflammatory and fibrosis markers, TGF-β, fibronectin, and type I collagen after long-term ketamine treatment. Masson's trichrome stain showed that ketamine treatment decreased urothelium thickness while increasing the collagen to smooth muscle ratio and exacerbating interstitial fibrosis. By contrast, simultaneous EGCG and ketamine treatment reversed ketamine-induced damage to almost control levels, showing the protective effect of EGCG.

  • smokel2 hours ago
    > Its new plans called for traveling through the galaxy looking for entities like itself.

    Why not simply set up a network with other planets and communicate over FaceTime? I don't see a reason why Earth should actually hang out with others of its kind.

    Anyway, the article seems a bit anthropocentric to me. I'd much prefer a nihilist view, where our future AI overlords simply don't care what we humans do.

    • pixl9743 minutes ago
      I mean in general humans don't care what ants do. Doesn't stop us from whipping them out by the millions.
  • bronlundan hour ago
    Well, in light of how mismanaged this planet is, maybe it would be for the better.
  • Mistletoean hour ago
    If man is eliminated, solid state intelligence is eliminated. Point to one machine, other than the Oxford Electric Bell, that is still running that is even 100 years old without human intervention. We are the cockroaches of nature, we cannot all be killed, the time for that was one of the genetic bottlenecks humans have gone through, but it's over now, humans in some form will be here until they either leave the planet ahead of the Sun swallowing it or die on it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_Bell

    • pixl97an hour ago
      I mean, there are no humans from 1840 around...

      It's kind of odd to think the machines wouldn't update and replace their parts like the ship of thesisus.

  • polotics2 hours ago
    Oh well, nice enough writeup, just note that this pair of sentences:

    "It now began to eliminate the cities, one after another. Finally Man was gone."

    ...is the only (lack of) rationale for, and description of, that aforementioned elimination process.

    I find it a bit short. Sci-Fi handwaving I guess.

  • hn974izqdv2 hours ago
    Clean and correct