149 pointsby geox20 hours ago19 comments
  • AnEro19 hours ago
    I've personally completely avoided the USA because of ICE, not because of principle of border policies purely from unpredictable treatment of people in custody with no recorse. Even if mistreatment are edge cases I've got no faith in the system to correct the wrong within itself. I've seen too many stories of legal americans and travelers not even getting bare minimum due process, or just being locked away for days no contact. I present and am read as a woman, if I get sent to male holding facility I'm just chum in the water. Which that decision could be made completely at the whim of the officer and the areas commanding officer, regardless of local laws.
    • jancsika19 hours ago
      > if I get sent to male holding facility I'm just chum in the water.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_people_in_prison

      • AnEro19 hours ago
        >V-coding is the practice of assigning trans women placed in men's prisons to cells with aggressive cisgender male cellmates as both a reward and a means of placation for said cellmates, so as to maintain social control and to, as one inmate described it, "keep the violence rate down".[170] Trans women used in this manner are often raped daily; and this process has been described as so common that it is effectively "a central part of a trans woman's sentence"
        • NDlurker19 hours ago
          Oh my God. That's a blatant rights violation.
          • glaslong18 hours ago
            Yup. Many such.
            • josefritzishere18 hours ago
              Sorry America is in the bad place right now.
              • glaslong8 hours ago
                Thanks, here's to better days, and the will to make them happen.
              • gumby16 hours ago
                When has it not been?
                • preg_match43 minutes ago
                  America was the bad place, now it's the worse place. I appreciate the sentiment but 99% of the time people say this, I've noticed they do it to try to dismiss any current concerns with our current administration. I'm not saying that's your intention, it's just what I see.
    • xyzelement19 hours ago
      Where are you from?
      • AnEro19 hours ago
        Canada, I've turned down opritunities even in blue states over this being 100% honest. My Job used to involve myself traveling through the mostly the south. I'm lucky they are accomidating and shifted those responsiblties around but still pre-covid and a little 'post'-covid I was basically living month or so at a time in the south without issues.
        • xyzelement19 hours ago
          I think likewise millions or people live in the south without issues?
          • AnEro17 hours ago
            As a trans woman, that is a priviledge often conditional on being well above average income as well
          • water-data-dude18 hours ago
            Sampling bias. Most of those millions of people are white, cis, straight folks who present as the gender they were assigned at birth. The odds of something horrible happening are much higher if you don't check all of those boxes.

            It's still rare, but so are most horrible things that can happen to a person. "There's a pretty low risk of you getting into a car accident, so why wear a seatbelt?" because the risk, while low-ish in absolute terms, is still unacceptable - so you do what you can to mitigate it.

    • akimbostrawman18 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • 16 hours ago
        undefined
  • pbnjeh19 hours ago
    Jail, jail, jail. Nothing less will stop these Gestapo-esque thugs.

    And if you’re waiting for the mid-terms, you’re already acquiescing to their plans.

    Also, it says something — to me, at least — that I have to think seriously before posting this. All I’m calling for is timely criminal prosecution of what I think and believe are crimes. I.e. for a lawful process. Yet doing so puts me at risk of an overbearing, unaccountable response?

    This is some serious sh-t.

  • MertsA20 hours ago
    How does this square with FOIA obligations? I get ICE sidestepping transparency by avoiding creating the responsive footage in the first place, but once the body cam footage exists, what basis could they use to withhold it other than redacting footage for the typical reasons?
    • jjav18 hours ago
      > How does this square with FOIA obligations?

      ICE doesn't exactly have a track record of following any laws or courts in general. So I wouldn't expect them to answer any FOIA obligation.

      This is the fundamental flaw uncovered in the US system by the current administration. Turns out that if one agency decides to go rogue and declare that no laws apply to them, there is no mechanism in place to prevent that.

    • chaps19 hours ago
      I mean, ICE is already sidestepping transparency by delaying FOIA requests to the Nth degree. Have a look:

      https://www.muckrock.com/foi/list/?page=1&per_page=100&agenc...

    • orthecreedence20 hours ago
      > what basis could they use to withhold it other than redacting footage for the typical reasons?

      The basis is "come and take it." A court order doesn't work on the brownshirts.

    • jauntywundrkind7 hours ago
      Some people are calling it the administration with the biggest thumb-sucking babies of all time. Terrified little cowards, everywhere.

      Things they have said are a threat to national security that must be prevented:

      * Bodycam releases, broadly * Windmills * Not having a $400 grifted ballroom they had no approval for

      They'll probably say the same about the golf course Trump is trying to install, as he takes over jogging/biking/picnic spaces from DC's Haynes Point this fall.

      It's all made up. It's just an excuse to betray democracy, a cloak of darkness. Their own National Insecurity.

  • mcmcmc20 hours ago
    There they go making “Abolish ICE” sound reasonable again.
    • atmavatar17 hours ago
      Surely "Melt ICE" would be a catchier slogan.
    • glaslong18 hours ago
      It had stopped sounding reasonable?
      • mcmcmc16 hours ago
        When they were just doing their jobs without being assholes, killing Americans and violating civil rights, ICE had a legitimate purpose. There’s no redeeming them now. Obama deported more people than Trump while also passing DACA. There are bad actors who abuse immigration loopholes and evade customs that should be stopped. It’s not an invasion or epidemic, but they do exist.
  • cdrnsf20 hours ago
    So, presumably, not when they murder unarmed civilians in broad daylight? Or deploy chemical weapons around schools?
    • NDlurker19 hours ago
      I saw videos from my girlfriend's kid's friends. They go to a school near where one of the Minneapolis murders happened, I think Alex Pretti. They had to evacuate some of the dorms because the gas was seeping in. I heard the same thing happened to people's houses who live around there. That's terrorism.
  • git-nebulous18 hours ago
    This is why in almost all things the solution is less, not more, power to the State. That includes the violent, the legislative, and the judicial arms. Your favorite person or political position may be represented now but will not always be.
  • adverbly19 hours ago
    Surely the well being of the public is in the agency's best interest! Right? Right guys?
  • xyzelement19 hours ago
    What I got from reading the article - but not the headline or the comments.

    - ICE is moving to start using cameras (currently not using them) so this move overall increases the amount of footage that exists and can be released.

    - Their stayed approach is analogous to other law enforcement approaches already in use.

    So the headline should be "ICE to start using body cameras". I suspect this is in general good news for ICE - most police departments that once felt "forced" to use body cameras have found that the cameras have been good for their image. Incidents that could have previously been trumpeted as an unjustified police action now have the context of what the suspect was doing just prior that justify the action. I think ICE is betting on the same and the "look what our agents have to deal with" footage may get public airplay into their favor.

    We'll see

    • altcognito19 hours ago
      Yes, I too benefit from controlling the publicity, messaging, narrative and history surrounding my actions.
    • Freedom219 hours ago
      Agreed, I hope the moderators here editorialize this headline to try and spur more neutral discussion. It's worth waiting to see what the outcomes of this would be.
      • wtfwhateven9 hours ago
        I hope the moderators here do something about the AI spambot accounts such as the above.

        One example is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49076441

        There is, of course, simply no good faith rationale for demanding the HN guidelines must somehow be applied to forbid someone quoting a spokesman of the US government verbatim. Honestly quite abhorrent and dishonest to try and pressure people to not even quote what the US government says if it makes the US gov look ridiculous.

        The rest of the account is trivial, nonsensical quibbling about wholly honest headlines or otherwise generic affirmations.

        A supposed desire for "neutrality" betrayed by a thinly veiled demand for moderators to censor and punish people for merely quoting the article itself if it doesn't make their favored politicians look great, despite it being the admin's own words. Further betrayed by repeatedly suggesting moderators change headlines to be more "neutral" (but in almost every case actually suggesting a borderline dishonest, whitewashed version to make the terrible actions be as mundane and as normal as possible)

  • john_strinlai20 hours ago
    im not sure why they would even bother with the cameras at that point.
    • stevenwoo20 hours ago
      This is no different than any other law enforcement agency in the USA historically - it’s a curated source of positive PR that they get taxpayers to fund - it’s never used willingly as a source of truth when law enforcement is in the wrong.
    • disillusioned19 hours ago
      Accountability theatre, quite literally.
    • georgemcbay19 hours ago
      > im not sure why they would even bother with the cameras at that point.

      Lots of data to feed into their Palantir systems to keep track of l̵a̵w̵f̵u̵l̵ ̵p̵r̵o̵t̵e̵s̵t̵o̵r̵s̵ terrorists.

      • john_strinlai19 hours ago
        >Lots of data to feed into their Palatir systems

        i didnt think of that, actually, and facial recognition training and such actually sounds like a pretty plausible reason.

    • ranger_danger20 hours ago
      It says why in the article... to make them look better by only releasing positive videos.
      • cdrnsf20 hours ago
        Accompanied by childish memes, Bible quotes and the music of artists that loathe them.
      • john_strinlai20 hours ago
        right, i read the article, and i disagree that selectively releasing "positive" videos would make them look better.
        • philipov19 hours ago
          They don't care what you think. You're not their target audience.
          • john_strinlai19 hours ago
            yes, i am aware, thanks.

            (that's why i wrote my opinion on a message board, instead of a letter addressed to the director of ice)

            • philipov19 hours ago
              They don't want to shake the support of moderates who are already part of their coalition and aren't paying that much attention. Those people won't notice the selectivity, even if they hear about it in passing, as long as they're not constantly confronted with it directly.
            • fscknpublic19 hours ago
              [dead]
  • nashashmi20 hours ago
    Acting like any other police officer at this point
  • josefritzishere18 hours ago
    This feels illegal.
  • exe3419 hours ago
    This makes it easy to know when they murdered somebody - just check when they refuse to release the footage.
  • vel0city20 hours ago
    The interests of ICE should be the same as the public's interest, same as any other domestic policing.
    • augusto-moura20 hours ago
      If the public interest is divided, what should be ICE's interest? This applies to other enforcing orgs too. Should it take the majority even if the debate is close to a tie?

      In most cases, what wins is the interests of people in power, for all domestic policing

      • cdrnsf20 hours ago
        They should stop committing human rights violations, at a minimum.
      • wrs20 hours ago
        There is no valid public interest in having secret police.
      • jjav18 hours ago
        > what should be ICE's interest?

        Like any agency, their primary objective should be to follow the constitution and all the laws.

      • vel0city19 hours ago
        If it's about hiding information from the public about domestic police actions, you can't really be arguing that's for the public's interest.

        How would ICE being incredibly selective about what to release so it only paints the agency in a positive light be in the public's interest? How can the public make reasonable decisions on what's happening if we're actively hiding the truth?

        If ICE is abusing people and murdering innocent people in the street, how is the "public interest" divided? Isn't the public interest to hold those who abuse their authority to commit crimes accountable? How would that go against the public interest?

      • fscknpublic19 hours ago
        [dead]
  • functionmouse20 hours ago
    Treason! Hold them accountable!
    • whatever120 hours ago
      We have election in November, mobilize everyone you can and vote.
      • thewebguyd20 hours ago
        The turnout in my state's primary this week was an abysmal 20%. I hope that's not an omen for November, because we are doomed if so.
        • fhdkweig19 hours ago
          Primaries are not for down-the-ticket party voters. I didn't bother to vote in the primaries because I don't really care about the subtle shades of blue or red, I only care about are you any kind of blue or red. Each politician is either for what I want or against it. I will be showing up for November, that's when my vote will matter.
        • 165944709119 hours ago
          Thats pretty average for primaries nationwide.

          Texas had a turn out of around ~24% this year that shattered previous turnout; usually hover around 16%.

      • nashashmi20 hours ago
        November is too late. We have courts. Mobilize the courts.
    • mcmcmc20 hours ago
      That’s not treason, just bad governance. They do need accountability though
      • JumpCrisscross19 hours ago
        > not treason, just bad governance

        ICE is damn close to an organisation of brownshirts. If they fuck with the elections in November, that's an organised effort to use violence to overthrow our Constitutional order. That would be treason.

        We're not at the point of treason. But we have leaders credibly threatening to commit it. (I'd say Stephen Miller has commited treason. As in try-him-and-hang-him treason.

        • mcmcmc19 hours ago
          Yes it would be, but that hasn’t happened yet.
          • bulbar18 hours ago
            And when it happens, you will advocate to bring them to court to judge on their actions a year after it happened? Would be to late then and nobody will effectively be sentenced.
            • mcmcmc18 hours ago
              If it happens, it’s 2A time
              • JumpCrisscross17 hours ago
                > it’s 2A time

                It’s always 2A time. Nutters committing crimes just go on the docket.

              • bulbar9 hours ago
                Pretty sure that's not the case. Interfering with the voting process won't happen in your town, or even in most towns, only in carefully selected areas. To, you know, make sure everything is in order and nothing illegal is going on. When it got the news, interference by ICE will be denied, it's all about law and order.

                Will you then travel 200 miles to fight law enforcement?

                People won't.

                At the time of general election there will also be militia (still not in your town), they will be identified after the fact, dragged to court and pardoned by whatever puppet is in power then.

                Afterwards, voter turnout will drop significantly and then magically go up again, with quite implausible results.

                You will still go voting in your town without any trouble.

              • krapp17 hours ago
                Oh. that's the red line. OK. Good to know there is one.

                Weird that it wasn't when Trump supporters were kidnapping people and making bomb threats prior to the election or when they stormed the Capitol to try to kill Pence and force the result.

                Or even when ICE was being sent out into the streets and kidnapping people and shooting them dead in the street to begin with, and being sent out with National Guard troops to indimidate blue state voters.

                Or when DOGE ransacked the government and exfiltrated Americans' data to Palantir, which will make interfering with the elections much easier.

                Or when Trump refused to release the Epstein files. Which has nothing to do with election fraud but I feel like the sitting President being a serial rapist and pedophile defying the DOJ to protect himself and a network of pedophiles within the government should be a bigger deal than it is.

                If they mess with elections again (because they already tried mind you) then Americans will do something. OK. Good to know.

                • mcmcmc16 hours ago
                  Yeah I don’t live in the places where that was/is happening. A small benefit of rural small town living. My rep and senator are both blue and acting it. The red line moves up the easier it is to do something about it.
    • NDlurker20 hours ago
      Agreed. This is disgusting.
  • Krutonium20 hours ago
    ICE will release body cam video when required by the courts, and FOIA requests.

    Just saying, you could FOIA so much video in about 2 months...

    • JoshTriplett19 hours ago
      Bets on whether they'll harass people filing such requests?
  • techblueberry19 hours ago
    Not a good look. I don’t think that in a free society, the government has “interests” that are different than the people’s.
  • adamrezich19 hours ago
    Big influx in politicsposting here lately, eh? Wonder what that's all about.
    • hnthrowawayacct19 hours ago
      US midterms are coming up in November, politics are being thrust onto every corner of the internet at the moment.
  • ysemox16 hours ago
    [dead]
  • perrohunter20 hours ago
    How is this a `Hacker` new?
    • klik9919 hours ago
      Anti-authoritarianism is a core part of the hacker ethos, so much so it’s even in the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic
      • 19 hours ago
        undefined
    • accountrequired19 hours ago
      many users have been tricked into thinking that there is some urgent need for destroying their own civilization within their own lifetime.