What are you adding to the conversation when you complain about it? So it's a dealbreaker for you, don't buy it.
To @aemerson_: Congratulations on taking a risk. On first look this is great work. The attention to detail on both the keyboard and the website is really impressive.
As near as I can understand it, macOS supports a smart card reader (and apparently will defer to its sign-off for authentication duties when it's present and configured, and Touch ID isn't), so if you emulate a smart card reader you can make your own fingerprint sensor and have it say "I'm a smart card" and sign challenges like a smart card does.
The creator is very up front that this isn't equivalently secure for preserving state secrets, as if you carefully tear this device apart you can just short the pins that the sensor part connects when it's happy with the fingerprint. On the other hand, it is hilarious that anyone who isn't a person of interest for the CIA, Mossad, MI6, or FSB would think they're important enough for someone to go to the trouble of using that method to unlock their secrets. Anyone else would just club you over the head or slip you a mickey, and stick your unconscious finger on your fingerprint sensor.
People are raising a good point RE Touch ID. It is possible to add a fingerprint sensor. But that fingerprint sensor will never be able to do the things that Touch ID is most useful for: i.e. use Apple Pay. It would be incredibly confusing to have a fingerprint sensor that was usable for some things and not for others. Therefore the better experience today is to not include a fingerprint sensor at all, imo.
(The only non-timekeeping items on the 'Always works perfectly' part of the list are Apple Pay and the little button that dings your phone when you've misplaced it.)
Everyone would be better served with a generic USB hub in the keyboard, not shipping a security key with the keyboard.
For a long time I would argue (as an IT support person who would have to support your wireless keyboard problems) that having a wireless keyboard was wasteful and unnecessary if you never used it more than 3 feet from your computer anyway.
CC @gtsteve
Reverse-engineered from the Apple Magic Keyboard and requires a donor board, though
This does not qualify as a third party Touch ID compatible keyboard.
I suppose if one came across a pile of old / broken Magic keyboards, they could extract a bunch of Touch ID sensors and sell those to a keyboard manufacturer (or in their own keyboard). This does not scale, obviously, but including it as an option could work.
100% this.
One of my absolute favorite keyboard designs: G915 TKL Lightspeed got relegated to the donation pile because the symbols were NOT backlit. Such a dumb design choice to save a few cents IMHO.
The one thing I actually like about the magic keyboard or Microsoft's designer keyboard is that the "click" is immediate and the entirety travel distance of the key is the activation bump. I dislike any amount of the "extra" travel distance (I'm not sure if I'm using the right words/description, but I hope you get what I mean) of regular mechanical switches and is the main thing that turns me off from them.
Oh also, is it possible to get a Windows version or switch the keys around to accommodate Windows as well?
https://keychron.ca/blogs/news/kailh-mechanical-switch-guide
With regard to Windows keys that is a possibility. We shipped our previous keyboard, Altar I, with both Mac and Windows markings on the keys.
I'm curious about the switches you're using. On the tech specs it says: "Dual steel arm scissor switch w/ retention spring, 40gf actuation force"
Are they custom switches then? If so, are they most similar to current Magic Keyboard switch feel, or something Choc or MX low profile, or their own thing altogether?
Can you share how long you're looking to run the preorder/early bird special?
One of the advantages was that you could pour a cup of coffee into the keyboard and it would just keep working.
Thank you, good luck, and looking forward!
If you'll indulge me for a moment, because I never get to talk about this stuff: the corner radii of the cards on the site are actually "squircles" rather than perfect rounded corners. To me this is much more pleasing to the eye. The squircles are achieved by creating a PNG mask which is then 9-sliced and expanded to mask off the edge of the cards. Another mask is used for the stroke and laid on top of the first mask, to give the gradient border effect.
I loved the idea of mechanical keyboards and tactile feel; etc etc. But I type faster on Magic Keyboard. Being able to have both is potentially a dream come true. Even if it falls short, I want to financially reward the effort.
But I am also very interested in the haptics - I like the haptics on Magic Trackpad and would like to see that part of the system advance further.
For context, since it is such an underused feature, on Magic Trackpad allows haptic feedback for non-force touch actions; key examples are snapping in pages/keynote and the snap-to-north on two finger rotate in maps.
There is a bug where this only works for internal trackpads on macOS Tahoe.
I can’t wait to try this keyboard.
The switches look a lot like the new ultra low profile Cherry switches that Alienware was putting on their laptops a few years ago, is that what they are?
Will there be documentation of its features beyond a standard Bluetooth HID, such that users could potentially develop software that utilizes the speaker and haptic feedback mechanisms?
The firmware source code will be published publicly on Github in the future, as our other keyboard (Altar I) is: https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-.... Anyone is welcome to play around with it.
Great work on this and congratulations on the launch!
I have round foam adhesive dots stuck to the bottom of my current Apple keyboards. It works, but it's an obvious deficiency in the design. Every other keyboard on the market has tilt.
Do also bear in mind the final retail price is $349. the $249 price is for early pre-orders only.
That said, big fan of that volume button!
As much as I’d like a mechanical keyboard for my Mac that’s always the part that gets me. I end up using the one my Magic Keyboard 20+ times per workday.
Otherwise it looks beautiful.
We could include _a_ fingerprint sensor, and even include a special secure/tamper-proof chip, but it would never be able to work with things like Apple Pay. It would probably be able to do some things like log you in to your Mac by spoofing itself as a card reader or secure key. But because we can’t communicate with Apple’s Secure Enclave it would never be a seamless experience.
Maybe someday Apple could open up Touch ID like they do with Find My. But for now it’s pretty much a non-starter.
What I'd love to have is a standalone touch ID sensor that I could attach anywhere -- mechanical keyboard, side of the monitor, under my desk, etc. I guess this is bottlenecked by Apple's IP on the device, so I've considered just hacking one together by deconstructing and extracting an Apple keyboard...
https://www.printables.com/model/355924-clickable-touch-id-b...
https://gist.github.com/KhaosT/1406a6b6bea38f59e059c2afcb39d...
You have to carefully tear down and extract the touch id sensor, and then remount it in a box. I went the battery route so it could stay wireless. The tradeoff is the box is bigger.
So frustrating that Apple won't sell just a button even at any price. Gotta buy their terrible keyboard for $150 to get that. eyeroll
Some mechanical keyboards ship with an embedded USB hub that supports a couple of USB ports that allow users to pick and choose what devices to plug in.
I wonder why this feature isn't widespread.
It's apparently a UNIX thing, and old Apple, NeXT, some of DEC, Sun, HP UNIX, Sony NEWS, even IBM XT, many of modern Mac JIS, etc. seem to/did/do have the legends for that key as "Control", "CTRL", or "Ctrl". I think that adds even more to the cool factor.
I used to use it everyday but the low profile switches sometimes get stuck and it’s also a little bit tiring to type.
I currently use nuphyair 60 HE, and I find the low sensitivity keys don’t tire my fingers.
I'm curious what the purpose of haptic feedback on an already mechanical keyboard is?
Cool that you've been able to turn this into a livable business though.
The switches look like cherry ultra low profile switches. I’ve not tried these out, how do they feel compared to the linear kailh choc v1’s you used before.
They feel quite different to the Chocs, unsurprisingly. Although the required actuation force is close to the Choc Reds (40gf on our switch vs 50gf on the Choc Reds), because it's spread over such a small vertical travel it feels much "snappier". There is also very little pre-travel. It's kind of like a much sharper/tactile feeling chiclet switch with more vertical travel, if that makes sense.
the website however is a terrible experience. There is so much movement whilst scrolling that it triggers my motion sickness.
If you're willing to share: how many presses are these rated for? What is the yield looking like for manufacturing these?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-s...
or this that is in stock but doesn't exactly follow Apple's layout
https://www.ozokeyboards.com/products/jiffy75-wireless-split...
L’avantage de Lafayette est que toutes les touches sont dans les deux blocs 3x5 du clavier.
C’est plus ergonomique, la gestion des accents est beaucoup plus logique et confortable et le layer des symboles est clairement fait pour faciliter les déplacements vi.
C’est le meilleur layout Qwerty pour développeurs francophones.
(I always liked the idea of the Touch Bar, but in practice I only used it to change the volume. I still miss that, though. Now I have to Opt-Shift-Volume to try to get the right volume, which is always halfway between the options somehow.)
But seems like that is not the case.
(no affiliation, saw a thread on it here)
For a laptop or for a desktop? For a desktop the keyboard sits its entire life on the... desk?
And a laptop happens to have its own keyboard. The only people I know who use an external keyboard with a laptop do it precisely because they want a particular mechanical switch / keyboard layout.
Are there people taking their Magic keyboard with them in their backpack or car or whatever just to hook it to a laptop? I don't think many do that.
So you find a keyboard on a desk looks clunky? Do you need a "not clunky" keyboard to take pictures you post on Instagram?
I've got a 60% mechanical keyboard on my desk: its footprint is smaller than some Magic keyboard versions. And, well, vertically there's room on my desk.
There are a couple of small quality-of-life features that do require the app: for example if you want haptic feedback when you receive a notification. This is because the keyboard has no idea what is happening on your OS, and requires some middleware. But all the core functionality requires no app at all.
To answer your second question, the firmware for Altar II will be open-sourced, as the firmware for our Altar I keyboard is. You can see the Altar I firmware source code here: https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-...
Both Altar I and Altar II firmware are based on the open-source ZMK (https://zmk.dev). We try to contribute back to ZMK whenever we can because we have benefitted so much from it. Two members of our team are also long-standing ZMK contributors.
I respect that you're doing a single variant up front, and I understand the business challenges and risks of going wide on a niche product like this... but as a single datapoint, I'll pay double for an ortholinear with similar features and style.
I visited a mechanical keyboard shop, tried about 20 of them including low profile variants, then visited an Apple shop. Both shops allowed me to sit down and measure my typing speeds on a computer over many trials.
The apple magic keyboard, full-size, gives me about 10-20% faster typing speeds. Over the previous three years I had only used mechanical keyboards.
I also found it very aesthetically pleasing to type on, rivalled only by the Logitech pebble in terms of subjective feel. There's something about feeling the whole aluminium frame and plastic membrane flex when I hit a key hard that I find pleasing in a way that isn't matched by many other keyboards.
I bought one, and it's the only piece of apple hardware I own. My 3 mechanical keyboards are collecting dust.
Altar II is quite a quiet keyboard, and there is a special sandwich of materials specifically designed to make it as quiet as possible.
The built-in speaker is interesting. Really it's just there because it's fun, and its nice to get the odd bleep or chime when your keyboard connects or begins charging.
What is the click latency?
Is USB just for charging or can I use it without BT?
There is a video by one of the ZMK team members where he tested ZMK latency (wired and wireless) against other options on the market - it is, however, fairly dated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWL4nU-vtWs
The USB port allows for wired operation while charging. The fact that some products refuse to do this still bothers me (cough MX Master 3).
The single wide space bar is an even worse offender than row staggered or qwerty.
The mdial is amazing. The Nixie tube numbers are fun. The sleekness. And this website with all demo’s is really well made. Also the “about” site is cool.
You were not underpromising when stating Apple didn’t spend enough energy here. This is a leap. And I fully trust you’ll deliver.
If anything, why not work at Apple after this adventure and get these things (or another next level keyboard) out at massive scale?
They used to have slightly sculpted keys, where your fingers could find the keys and self-center, leading to accurate typing.
But typical apple - thin is the target - and everyone follows
What's with the giant numbers and tiny symbols? I know where the numbers are from muscle memory. I don't have the symbols memorized.
Haptic feedback when you use the command key? Why?
No number pad or page up/page dn, which would be something useful.
This is like The Homer of keyboards. Does it play La Cucaracha out of the speaker if you push the knob four times?
You clearly have the technical capabilities but the product requirements are bonkers.
If we did a numpad I would probably do it as a separate device. Personally I don't like how the numpad sits between the edge of my keyboard and mouse. I'd prefer it to the left of my keyboard or to the right side of my mouse.
it's a keyboard
It's not a miracle.
If you're going to have all this 3D imagery, put a glTF model viewer on the page, and let me look at it.
though to be told, I definitely want one. low profile keyboards are indeed my jam. I don't know why the hell keyboards need to have batteries though. No one needs a wireless keyboard. Wires are not that much of a pain in the ass. Coiled, self-retracting keyboard cables are a thing. Keyboards do not need to be wireless. Wires are fine, I promise! Wireless mouse? Sure. Wires make the mouse move when you don't want it to move. Wireless credential entry device? Those should remain wired, I think.
As far as ergonomics go, I don't care too much about split layouts and similar nonsense, but my wrists start to hurt really fast when the keyboard is lying flat on the desk.
I've bought adhesive folding feet for my laptops. They are awesome. I used a pair for my B104 (a reproduction of IBM beam spring switches in a modern keyboard). I still wish I didn't have to glue any contraptions to devices I type on.
People are programming on a 36-key keyboards just fine and they don't miss any keys. It's easier to press fn + something than reaching out for screenshot button, which is usually far away. That way, you don't have to move your hands.
I take lots of screenshots and videos and add them to PRs, which clearly communicate what has changed.
It's very convenient, when your hand don't move at all and can reach every button.
I'd complain about the lack of thumb keys, and then the flatness, and suddenly we're talking about a completely different keyboard.
I now own a Logitech MX Keys S and I'm quite happy with it.
This looks dope, looking forward to ordering in the future.
Does it support the globe key without having to use karabiner?
I also really hate Apples decision to put the FN key in the bottom left corner, but I understand following their layout. I always swap the ctrl and fn keys on my Apple devices, so I assume you could do the same thing here.
Edit: in reply to the person above because I keep getting a "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." error because I've made 2 posts in this thread apparently...
Anyway, it would be neat if in the future the M-Dial slot could be used for a fingerprint reader or something else. Swappable items in that slot.
If you have any questions I'd be very happy to answer them.
Rest assured we are building a sustainable business that will be around for the long haul.
Black/red is a hard no for me. Something fitting with the existing aesthetic (let's call it "Scandanavian milled", subtle frosting, white text) or warmer ("natural", off-white, orange LEDs) etc etc.
One other question: waterproof? I assume that's not possible. Would be a decision maker for me personally probably.
But yeah, I guess that's fair, not everybody's workload is going to involve inputting incident numbers, and order numbers, and asset numbers, etc etc etc all the time... even IP addresses, I just find it so much more comfortable with the numpad, whereas I find I have a tough time touch-typing on the number row.