12 pointsby littlexsparkee11 hours ago1 comment
  • mint52 hours ago
    So much science work and analysis - all likely ruined by poor dietary controls. I skimmed the actual linked paper to see any details about the vegan vs meat rich diets and didn’t see any discussion whatsoever on that crucial part of the whole thing.

    I was very curious if they’d kept the protein, fat and carb proportions constant, or what even is the typical meat rich diet. Is it spam and sausage at every meal? Could be from all the paper mentioned.

    The paper did say they instructed the two groups to eat the same calories but overall the vegan group stayed the same weight while the meat group average gained kilo. One meat person gained 5kg!!! The meat group clearly did not eat their normal amounts of calories, an assumption the paper seemed to rely on.

    • adrian_b14 minutes ago
      Yes, that's true.

      Despite the fact that I happen to eat mostly vegan food myself, I am extremely skeptical about the claims of most such studies that claim positive results for vegan diets, because, as you say, they lack adequate dietary controls that would enable the interpretation of the results.

      I looked in the paper at "Materials and Methods", but there was no useful information about the actual diets, because it sent the reader to some older papers, where supposedly the diets were described.

      I went to one of the referred papers, and there the description was equally useless, because there had been no strict controls. The participants were given guidelines about what they should eat and an example recipes book and then they provided weekly reports about what they had eaten.

      This is not good enough to know with any certainty which are the components of the diet that had the observed effects.

      Typically, the so-called vegan diets are healthier diets than what most people eat, for other reasons than for not including substances of animal origin.

      None of the dietary studies that I have seen has provided any conclusive evidence that meat per se is the harmful ingredient, and that the differences in outcomes are not caused by other factors, e.g. inappropriate proportions between protein, fat and carbohydrates, too many calories, too much animal fat, unhealthy methods of cooking, like frying, unnatural composition of the food ingredients of animal origin caused by industrial farming methods, e.g. excessive amounts of hormones, vitamins, antibiotics etc., and so on.