53 pointsby num423 hours ago17 comments
  • embedding-shape31 minutes ago
    > an informal term for the embrace of strange or scientifically unsound ideas by some Nobel Prize winners, usually later in life. It has been argued that the effect results, in part, from a tendency for Nobel winners to feel empowered by the award to speak on topics outside their specific area of expertise

    Sounds pretty much like every founder out there who strike gold once in the past now believing their genius now clearly applies to everything everywhere, including country governance, economics and sociology. It probably doesn't help that others around them are affected in similar ways and become more sycophantic because of the "award" these two types of people win.

  • ciropantera2 hours ago
    A lot of these aren't "strange or scientifically unsound ideas" but downright racism. Whether Nobel prize recipients are less or more racist than their contemporaries is debatable but I'm not sure they fit the same category as "believed in ghosts" or "claims to have talked to a fluorescent racoon".
    • epolanski41 minutes ago
      That still belongs to strange or scientifically unsound.
      • aswegs837 minutes ago
        Eugenics is not scientifically unsound. It's just completely outside of today's Overton window.
        • embedding-shape20 minutes ago
          > It's just completely outside of today's Overton window

          Never heard it expressed like that, but I guess you could apply it to tons of stuff?

          > Lobotomy is not scientifically unsound, as aswegs8 proves, it's just completely outside of today's Overton window.

          • CalRobert10 minutes ago
            I mean, if we wanted every human on Earth to be over 6' tall, we could just cull the short ones (or stop them from reproducing), and this is scientifically valid, but, of course, evil.

            As far as lobotomy, I don't know, but it seems to be widely discredited inasmuch as it didn't achieve its aims (or if it did, the aims themselves were highly questionable)

            Given the title, lobotomy is an apt reference "The originator of the procedure, Portuguese neurologist António Egas Moniz, shared the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine of 1949 for the "discovery of the therapeutic value of leucotomy in certain psychoses"," - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy

        • dyauspitr2 minutes ago
          It is unsound because “better” is completely subjective and up to the definer. There’s no objective, scientific truth there.
        • cestith32 minutes ago
          It is ethically unsound.
          • lmf4lol12 minutes ago
            are ethics man-made or „given“ to us by god, the watchmaker or the universe?
  • perilunaran hour ago
    This article linked at the bottom is interesting too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ne_supra_crepidam

    "Let the cobbler not judge beyond the shoe"

  • cyclopeanutopiaan hour ago
    From the examples given in this article it is absolutely impossible to tell whether the "incorrect beliefs" (be it racism, mushroom aliens, vitamins curing cancer, whatever) are in any way connected to the Nobel prize.

    For all I know, they all could have been racists, psylocibe users, etc. long before they received any prizes and the associated attention.

    In fact, it could even be possible that they had much worse and radical beliefs earlier in life which were tempered by the burden of being a thought leader.

    I'd go as far as to say that this is a good example of an article that should be removed from Wikipedia.

    • ragazzinaan hour ago
      >it is absolutely impossible to tell whether

      It's literally the second sentence of the article.

      • cyclopeanutopiaan hour ago
        Yes, that's my point.

        Take any other award, list people who got it and had "incorrect beliefs", add an article about it and preamble it with "it is unclear whether it is an effect of the award". What purpose does it serve? Do you think there should be articles for all of those "diseases"?

        Nebula award disease

        Crossword Book award disease

        Turing award disease

        Pulitzer award disease

        Fields medalist disease

        et cetera?

        • leni53638 minutes ago
          The difference is notability, which is the criteria used whether a distinct Wikipedia article is warranted. There are multiple cited sources that use the "Noble disease" term, there are possibly much fewer similar publications with "Fields medalist disease".

          That is not to say that the theory holds water. Flat Earth theory is also notable and has a wiki page, even if blatantly wrong. There is no hyperboloid Earth theory wiki page.

          • cyclopeanutopia26 minutes ago
            Ok, notability is a good argument for having such an article (although I'm not too sure about it really being notable), but the current shape is absolutely misleading.
        • testdelacc113 minutes ago
          The article mentions it later - journalists and laymen end up asking Nobel Prize winners their opinion on matters outside their area of expertise.

          We don’t do that with Fields medal winners. Mainly because most people don’t even know what a Fields medal is. I can’t write a headline that relies on Elizabeth Moon’s or Stanislav Smirnov’s borrowed authority because the average joe doesn’t know who they are. But that definitely happened with multiple Nobel prize winners because the Nobel prize is that well known. A Nobel prize winners opinion on race science is inherently newsworthy.

          You know how we know the Nobel is in a different league to these other awards? Because when you explain what a Fields Medal is to someone who hasn’t heard of it, you say “it’s the Nobel prize for math”.

          And the fame of the prize leads to attention, which in the words of Milton Friedman, is “flattering but also corrupting”.

  • aswegs838 minutes ago
    Nobel laureates are just normal humans and sometimes believe in garbage ideas. Surprise.
  • Oarch30 minutes ago
    However Noble Rot is delightful:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_rot

  • yregan hour ago
    > Luc Montagnier co-discovered HIV in 1983 […]

    > During the COVID-19 pandemic, Montagnier promoted the idea that SARS-CoV-2 was deliberately created and escaped from a laboratory

    My understanding is that quite some researchers think that the lab leak hypothesis is possible, but unprovable at this point. I know Wikipedia treats it as some fringe hoax, but to me it seems almost religious. In the sense that the idea has been marked as a conspiracy theory at the very beginning and nothing can change that stance anymore. When a scientist supports it, it discredits the scientist instead of supporting the theory.

    (For transparency, my personal opinion on covid origin is that I find it difficult to believe either side of the debate when it claims it is 100% sure.)

    • ciropanteraan hour ago
      Lab leak is one thing, "deliberately created and escaped" is a different story.
      • Denote673732 minutes ago
        It depends on personal interpretations of "deliberately created". To wit, virology labs will deliberately breed up more virulent strains of viruses in order to study their effects.
      • ginko44 minutes ago
        "deliberately (created and escaped)" is very implausible yes. "(deliberately created) and escaped" not so much though.
    • jpizagnoan hour ago
      Came here to note this as well. I think the lab leak theory is becoming more acceptable.
  • hmokiguessan hour ago
    I think all ideas can be entertained without an association with how it manifested, we should be able to have any level of discussion (be it dismissive, reductive, or enriching and productive) about anything.

    “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself.” - Richard Feynman

  • OtherShrezzingan hour ago
    Milton Friedman being the main quoted figure in the article, and that he attempts to link it back to his own field, is a huge irony. He’s certainly one of the most “wild ideas beyond his domain” public intellectuals of his century.
  • 13 minutes ago
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  • isoprophlex13 minutes ago
    > In his autobiography, Mullis professed a belief in astrology and wrote about an encounter with a fluorescent, talking raccoon that he suggested might have been an extraterrestrial alien.

    Absolutely wild shit whoa

  • TrackerFFan hour ago
    I’d argue it is even more common among successful startup founders.
  • SanjayMehta2 hours ago
    Some of these symptoms are also exhibited by Nobel Prize Whiners like a certain gentleman who has been hankering for a Nobel Peace Prize.
    • PaulRobinson2 hours ago
      Indeed. The FIFA Peace Prize winners espousing views they don't seem to have any qualification to comment on (and may express factually incorrect views, unsupported by data), seems to be running at a rate of ~100% at the moment. The Bayesian in me wants to see more data before calling it a disease, but early signs are not promising.
  • epolanski40 minutes ago
    People that enjoyed success in any field tend to think they can replicate in others.

    See Musk, whom believes that if he's done A or B right, makes him an expert on the entire alphabet.

  • jdw642 hours ago
    There's a statistic similar to this showing that socially successful people tend to think they're above the law.

    I think that once people achieve a certain level of success, they start to think, 'I can get away with this much.'

    That's why I'm not successful. I'm trying not to lose my critical perspective. I consider that critical perspective my treasure.

    • datakan2 hours ago
      > There's a statistic similar to this showing that socially successful people tend to think they're above the law.

      That's actually the premise of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. If you actually read the book there is no Mr. Hyde, it was Jekyll all along. It was a commentary on the times it was written in where the rich elite would behave horribly in "private" while maintaining a social standing in public suited to their supposed stature. They believed they were above the law.

    • ImHereToVotean hour ago
      Most people are scared of voicing their heterodox views. It really is as simple as that. Once you are not dependent on an income they can be more truthful.
  • typeofhumanan hour ago
    Well I'll guess they'll need to make an edit to post on Luc Montagnier.
  • moralestapia2 hours ago
    What I've (noticed) is that many of their beliefs overlap.

    Nobel prize winners are the smartest people on the planet, people go out of their way to extend them a carpet everywhere they go, we are supposed to do that, but then are we also supposed not supposed to believe what they say?

    I'm truly confused, this part of the training definitely needs a review.

    • PaulRobinson2 hours ago
      I think I would trust a Nobel laureate on their topic of expertise, as indicated by their Nobel prize.

      The problem seems to be that they are asked - and often answer - questions on topics unrelated to that topic, in the belief they're just, y'know, really smart.

      I think the economics prize must be the worst banana skin for the recipients - popular economics science books like Freakonomics have cemented in the public's (and journalists'), minds, that economics has applicability to a number of different parts of life. And it does! However that does not mean they have any authority to speak on anything outside of their published work.

      • ImHereToVotean hour ago
        There isn't simply any awards given for heterodox views alone.
    • nicole_express39 minutes ago
      I think the point is exactly that just because someone is smart in one area doesn't mean they know anything about other areas, and yet we constantly assume that's true.

      We probably shouldn't be treating Nobel prize winners as the smartest people generally, just specifically in the field of their discovery. Very common fallacy to fall for though, and when everyone treats you like a general genius, of course you're going to give your opinions.

    • dguestan hour ago
      > Nobel prize winners are the smartest people on the planet

      I wouldn't go that far. They are not dumb and they like to promote their ideas. They can probably give an above-average take on most things.

      There are millions of other not-dumb people who will give their opinions on anything. If you ask them their opinions on everything a lot of them will say crazy stuff, but a Nobel laureate says it it makes more headlines.

    • sajithdilshanan hour ago
      You’re not supposed to believe anything anyone says or because it’s written in a book or because that’s how it always has been. You have a brain and use it to think critically and analytically. Only after that you decide if you agree or not.