93 pointsby pshirshov4 hours ago26 comments
  • 3eb7988a16632 hours ago
    Gutenberg's copy of Moby Dick is 1.2MB[0]. Which is to say the slowest benchmarked terminal could display a paltry ~53 Moby Dicks per second, while shitty gives you ~98 Moby Dicks.

    I am not sure how many Moby Dicks I require per second, but it is good to have options.

    [0] https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2701

    • nine_kan hour ago
      Mere 25-30 years ago I saw some very chatty Java builds run faster if the terminal window was obscured or minimized. Slow console output held back the compilers.
    • genxy2 hours ago
      Sometimes you want to dump a LOT of debug to the console but not have the console slow down that program. Or you accidentally cat a TB file?
    • actionfromafar2 hours ago
      Besides, most screen only show 60 images per second. That's not many Moby Dicks per second.
      • tostian hour ago
        I can't give a single FPS how much Moby Dicks per second a terminal emulator can handle!
  • yjftsjthsd-h3 hours ago
    > The executable is named st; the desktop application and icon are named shitty

    That conflicts with the already existing suckless st.

    Also I am suitably impressed with the perf numbers, but I also somewhat take away that I could stick with (at least) alacritty or ghostty and not be much slower.

    • pg833 hours ago
      I know, but there aren't that many two-letter abbreviations!
      • functionmouse3 hours ago
        on one hand I wanna say you shouldn't make conflicting names

        on the other hand what gives them the right to st but not you?

  • p1necone2 hours ago
    This is cool, but I gotta say - I care much more about keypress-to-screen latency on my terminals than throughput - would love to see some numbers on that.
    • pg832 hours ago
      It's VERY difficult to measure. But I can say that shitty has the best damage tracking model among foot/kitty/alacritty/ghostty. It's best in the sense that it's cell-exact; I only draw to the screen what has actually changed.

      Furthermore, on Linux, I reuse buffers from the swapchain after the wayland compositor returns them, and I only update the areas that changed after I sent the buffer to the window system. In other words, I'm provably doing the minimum amount of work possible. Unfortunately, this isn't possible on MacOS, since the Metal documentation states that it can (and does) corrupt a buffer while displaying it.

      Basically, based on code, not actual measurements, shitty is the best terminal in terms of change delivery latency.

      • grg0an hour ago
        > I'm provably doing the minimum amount of work possible.

        That is a very bold claim to make for the amount of render code generated by the LLM. It's not obvious what the critical path even is, which is what would bound the latency. And I mean actual code, not just some informal description of what happens.

        • pg8331 minutes ago
          Expert opinion versus expert opinion. I will probably stick to my point of view and suggest that you either offer a benchmark or show a specific problem in my code, without speculation on the topic of LLM.
  • cyanregiment3 hours ago
    Geeking out on terminals is like geeking out on shoelaces.

    I'm glad you guys are out there - someone has to do it.

    • butterisgood2 hours ago
      Optimize the aglets!
      • cyanregiment2 hours ago
        I only use the finest of gold.

        They also count my steps.

        (also I had to look up aglet)

    • egeuvuvy62 hours ago
      I once took around two weeks worth of evenings to get my zsh startup from 300ms down to 50ms because it felt laggy.

      Fuck nvm btw.

      • cyanregimentan hour ago
        I remember the infamous 300ms delay on tap when smartphones first came out.

        It matters!

        There is some number of fps where "the human eye can't tell the difference" I bet there is one for ms delays

  • joncp2 hours ago
    Nice work!

    I do wonder, however, whether people really have issues with perf on any terminal emulator in 2026

    I’ve been living in Terminal.app / zsh / tmux / vim for 15 years and have never once thought “this is slower than I want.”

    • marvinborner2 hours ago
      To me, the most relevant aspect is the time it takes to open. I can't believe how slow the startup time in common linux distributions is by default, it's so annoying, by the time it opens I already forgot what I wanted to do. Alacritty has this cool feature where you only ever have to "open" a single terminal, whereas new windows can be created very efficiently with `alacritty msg create-window`, being forks of the initial window. It makes using my pc a lot more comfortable.
      • boltzmann642 hours ago
        this is is not new. we have had factory model (forking the initial window) in terminal emulator since 1990s.
      • Evidlo2 hours ago
        Also present in urxvt and kitty.
      • skydhashan hour ago
        I'm using OpenBSD with xterm, and when I use something like `time xterm -e 'sh -c "echo 1; exit"'`, it says 360ms or something. Starting it with the wm keybinds is as snappy as opening a new Firefox tab. foot and st felt as fast when I was using them.
    • thayne2 hours ago
      IME, usually you care more about latency than throughput for normal interactions, and there is a noticeable difference between the slowest ones, and the fastest ones, but I've tried a lot of terminal emulators, and any of the ones that put some effort into performance are plenty fast enough.

      However, there is one case when throughput matters: when an application has a lot of output. But then the problem isn't the speed that it displays the text, it's going by too fast to read anyway, the problem is that the application can be slowed down by blocking on writing to stdout when the buffer is full. And honestly, the best approach in that case is probably not to actually render all the text, but send most of the output straight to the scrollback buffer, and only render some of the frames.

    • pg832 hours ago
      Speed itself may not be very important, but it is a very interesting challenge in itself - to prove to yourself that you can surpass the state of the art!
    • krackers2 hours ago
      Terminal.app is amongst the best, if these old danluu benchmarks still hold https://danluu.com/term-latency/
  • jcelerier40 minutes ago
    > Shitty is moving from the imported GPL baseline to an MIT-only codebase. It does not intend to retain the GPL as the final project license.

    that's really something that cannot be done if you don't have the original right of the code. It's 100% derived work and thus has to preserve GPL license, even if you rewrite every single line.

    • pg8323 minutes ago
      I'll probably stick to the perspective expressed to me by the lawyer (I actually consulted on this topic), rather than the opinion of some random "GPL zealot" on the internet.

      The procedure described has been done many times, is well described, and is quite feasible, albeit quite complex.

      I think I can handle it!

      And, in any case, anyone who wants to can sue me in a real court, not an online one.

      • pg8315 minutes ago
        The procedure is quite simple in principle: each new contributor confirms their permission to use their code under two licenses—MIT and GPL3. After a while, the entire codebase becomes dual-licensed. At that point, I leave it as is and (tentatively) copy the MIT portion to another location. Yes, the derived work will still remain under the dual license, and therefore under the GPL3 as well, but no one can stop me from copying the MIT portion, which, by coincidence, will cover the entire project. This isn't relicensing; it's rewriting it under a dual license.
  • mellosouls2 hours ago
    Going by the childish naming of the project, it doesn't inspire confidence in the professionalism of the author going forward, and neither will it help with getting it installed on corporate networks.

    I'm all for vulgar wit but this isn't that (yes I'm aware of the -tty convention) & just reinforces the cliche of tech skills inversely proportional to social ones

    • platinumrad15 minutes ago
      > and neither will it help with getting it installed on corporate networks

      This might not be something the author cares about. Compliance with corporate policies is certainly not something I've prioritized when giving away open source software for free.

    • pg83an hour ago
      I assure you, this is a very professionally made product:

      - we have 5,000 tests covering all aspects of terminal behavior

      - we have address sanitizer and ub sanitizer runs of these tests

      - we also have regular fuzzing!

      - we even monitor code coverage

      This is definitely a top 0.1% GitHub project in terms of development approach.

      > and neither will it help with getting it installed on corporate networks.

      I'm fine with it.

      • mellosoulsan hour ago
        I assure you, this is a very professionally made product

        The moronic naming immediately undermines that claim.

        See my other comment [1] that acknowledges the effort is presumably there, which is why the childishness is frustrating.

        [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49150227

        • pg83an hour ago
          > The moronic naming immediately undermines that claim.

          It's quite obvious to me that professionalism in product manufacturing correlates very weakly with naming :) Proof me wrong.

          • naikrovekan hour ago
            Nothing else on any market called “shitty” that I’ve ever seen, and if I had, I would avoid it.

            Any sales or marketing person will gladly tell you how bad an idea it is to use this name. “Shitty” is slang for “terrible quality”, for one.

      • naikrovekan hour ago
        How much of it was written by AI?
        • pg8343 minutes ago
          If we are talking about the process of direct code production according to a given specification, then 100%.
      • EPWN3Dan hour ago
        lol fuck this guy, the name and branding are awesome dude
    • sublinear2 hours ago
      Why did you make this comment? It's completely off topic.

      Your appeals to authority do not apply when the author is clearly telling you not to use it for that. We're well past the point where this kind of software eventually ends up under corporate use policy or any policy at all.

      • mellosouls2 hours ago
        The name screams for attention, so of course it's on topic. I made no appeal to authority, just maturity.
        • 1bppan hour ago
          They aren't asking for money or literally anything from you, it's just someone's project with a silly name.
          • mellosoulsan hour ago
            They're asking us to engage and try it, that's what ShowHN is.
    • quotemstr2 hours ago
      • mellosouls2 hours ago
        Yes, see also gimp, thefuck and other equally depressing juvenile names. I'm aware of precedence.

        It's partly frustrating because the laziness of the naming presumably doesn't actually reflect the effort that has gone into the project.

  • egeuvuvy62 hours ago
    What's the boot time for shitty?

    I can't use half of the terminal emulators because theyre so slow that after hitting my key bind to open them and I start typing half of the first word is missing.

    • pg832 hours ago
      I don't know, I haven't measured it. For me, it's "instantaneous" enough that I don't have to think about it.
  • Null-Set5 minutes ago
    Is the memory-unsafe descriptor just saying it wasn't written in rust? Or does it specifically do some UB stuff which happens to work out so far?
  • tulio_ribeiro2 hours ago
    This is obligatory read: https://blog.royalsloth.eu/posts/it-takes-a-phd-to-develop-t...

    Later, Microsoft fixes the issue but fails to give Muratori credit. After backlash, they went back and gave him a footnote: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-terminal-... (atlas release section)

    GitHub thread in question: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/10362#issuecomm...

    And this gem: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/10362#issuecomm...

    • 3eb7988a1663an hour ago
      There was also the video where he did write the doctoral research project in a weekend.
    • sgarland2 hours ago
      I will forever love reading or watching Casey dunking on people from so far above that they’re unaware of the delta.
  • Barbing3 hours ago
    Unironically better name than “CRM“ for a CRM https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49142360

    With this you can DuckDuckKagi for the crappy terminal (versus “CRM crm”… ah guess they wanted you to remember their company name)

  • butterisgood2 hours ago
    Best named project I've seen this year!
    • pg832 hours ago
      I hoped that at least someone would like it :))
  • elitepleban hour ago
    excited to see a work of zutty lineage, it's a massively underrated terminal, but please clank something meaner and leaner that an agent can manage to get built in less than 128k tokens, x11 would be appreciated too
  • chamomeal2 hours ago
    I will def try this out and I absolutely love the name. Just an A++ name
    • naikrovekan hour ago
      Can you explain why you think so? Seems like a very childish name to me.

      Like a neighborhood kid outside on his bike yelling “shit” then pedaling away as fast as he can, to dissociate himself from the event out of fear of getting caught.

      FaTTY - Fast Terminal (executable named “ft”)

      RaTTY - Rapid Terminal (“rt”)

      LighTTY - Lightspeed Terminal (“lt”)

      Dragster (“dt”)

      McQueen (“mt”)

      Names are hard, but it’s trivial to come up with a name better than “shitty”.

  • theturtletalks3 hours ago
    Any plans for a "libghostty" alternative for your terminal?
    • pg833 hours ago
      No, there are no such plans right now, but overall, the project's architecture allows for easy separation of different layers for developing a terminal emulator - the parser, in the form of a ragel state machine, and the vterm state machine, with distinct boundaries between them. The rendering layer is separated slightly less clearly, but it's also solvable.
  • bearead2 hours ago
    I prefer Ghostty as there is no this "Claude" thing in its contributors. But I guess it's always good to have competitions.
    • throwatdem123112 hours ago
      Mitchell is a big proponent of using AI to code. He’s just not a dummy and knows his sh*t and he reviews the code diligently. Hell, he just promoted that he started a company for making tooling for AI agents. There is lots of LLM code in Ghostty it’s just not attributed.
    • pg832 hours ago
      I'm a huge proponent of AI, as long as there's a human in the loop and strong models are used. In fact, it's even reflected in our CONTRIBUTING.md that we prefer LLM-assisted code!

      https://github.com/pg83/shitty/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md

  • grg02 hours ago
    Why are you using pthread instead of std::thread?
    • pg832 hours ago
      I guess I just didn't notice. In any case, it wouldn't have been std::thread, but https://github.com/pg83/std/blob/master/std/thr/thread.h from my bike lib!
      • grg02 hours ago
        What do you mean you didn't notice? I saw another comment about Claude below, are you not even reviewing the output?

        I just browsed the project for two minutes and it's one of the first things I noticed. std::thread is more portable (Windows, if anyone cares) and allows you to pass in a lambda, which keeps the code local and also has the compiler generate the closure for you instead of having to pass function pointers and void* captures around. I don't see any advantage to using pthread directly.

        • pg83an hour ago
          > What do you mean you didn't notice? I saw another comment about Claude below, are you not even reviewing the output?

          Of course I looked at the LLM output, but people, uh, make mistakes and can miss something.

          > std::thread is more portable (Windows, if anyone cares) and allows you to pass in a lambda, which keeps the code local and also has the compiler generate the closure for you instead of having to pass function pointers and void* captures around. I don't see any advantage to using pthread directly.

          These are obvious things, and the objections to them are equally obvious. For example, std::thread is an additional level of abstraction over pthreads, which, in essence (not in form), gives me nothing. And I don't care about Windows, really.

    • quotemstr2 hours ago
      One advantage to using pthread is the ability to call pthread_setname_np to name threads and thereby make debugging easier. Granted, you can call it with std::thread by using std::thread::native_handle() to get the pthread handle, but you're still using a non-std::thread API.
      • grg02 hours ago
        I see, I wasn't aware of that one. Typically I'd assign an ID, but yeah, names make things easier.
  • quotemstr2 hours ago
    Excellent use of Ragel to generate fast state machines. Everyone should check it out: https://www.colm.net/open-source/ragel/

    The author of shitty encoded the whole terminal state machine in Ragel: https://github.com/pg83/shitty/blob/master/parser.rl

    The thing generates one of big DFA with actions for everything that can ever happen in the terminal. Precisely correct way to do it. Plus, Ragel is a joy to program once you get the hang of it. You can compose edge-triggered, level-triggered, and recursive operators in surprisingly elegant ways.

    • pg8340 minutes ago
      I'm glad someone noticed this, but ragel is a very niche tool; few people have heard of it! I believe my parser is the first complete description of a terminal output parser in FSM form, and that alone is quite valuable.
  • ddlsmurf2 hours ago
    why no iTerm2 in the benchmarks ? It far outperforms the likes of kitty and ghostty
    • pg832 hours ago
      I'm not imposing my opinion, but in my experience, iterm2 is the slowest terminal emulator I know of, so I didn't even bother trying. But overall, I'll add iterm2 to the list, too.
    • jitl2 hours ago
      > far outperforms the likes of kitty and ghostty

      this is not true on my machine, at least for my usual benchmark Doom-fire-zig[1]. on said benchmark, ghostty 1.3.1 runs at about 350fps, wezterm 20260713-212414-b3255666 runs at 415fps, Terminal.app runs at 100fps, iterm2 3.6.11 runs at 80fps.

      [1]: https://github.com/const-void/DOOM-fire-zig

    • collinvandyck762 hours ago
      has iTerm2 improved significantly in the last couple of years? I remember feeling the speedup when I went from iTerm2 to kitty, so that's surprising to me.
  • normie30003 hours ago
    Why wouldn't you use this?
    • Retr0id3 hours ago
      Personally, I have never felt constrained by the performance of my terminal, so I pick based on other features.

      (I have, also, thought about building my own perf-optimized terminal. It's a fun problem space!)

    • tulio_ribeiro2 hours ago
      The lifetime rendering-time savings wouldn’t even offset the five minutes required to install it and make it my default terminal.

      I would need to display roughly 70 GB of benchmark-equivalent ASCII output before Shitty recovers a five-minute switching cost relative to GNOME Terminal.

      This assumes I’m actively blocked by every byte being rendered.

    • kelnos2 hours ago
      Because I don't need to. I've never even once thought "my terminal feels slow and I want to find a different one". My terminal (xfce4-terminal) also uses a GUI toolkit that makes it visually fit in my desktop, and I like that.

      Regardless, sometimes you just gotta write some code because there's an itch that needs to be scratched. Sounds like this author really wanted to see if he could write a super fast terminal, and make one faster than the incumbents. It's a cool achievement!

      • jcelerier38 minutes ago
        > I've never even once thought "my terminal feels slow and I want to find a different one"

        wild

    • pg833 hours ago
      For example, flicker free resizes for MacOS, something that neither Kitty, nor Alacritti, nor Ghostty can boast of.
      • y1n03 hours ago
        I'm not knocking your project, but ghostty doesn't flicker for me on resize. Is this a common problem people have?

        My main complaint with ghostty is the crappy configuration.

        • pg832 hours ago
          It's not that it's a serious problem, it's just that for me, as a perfectionist, flicker is very noticeable when resizing.
    • scuppernong2 hours ago
      Any project I see on HN now, I have no idea if the developer will still be interested in it in a month. I'll stick with ghostty because of its reputation.
  • protocolture2 hours ago
    Project seems too good to be squatting on that name. I imagined some joke terminal when I first saw it.
  • jmyeet2 hours ago
    Two mild criticisms:

    1. Don't call your project "shitty". At best it's juvenile humor. At worst, it's going to make adoption within companies difficult for literally no reason; and

    2. You don't need a two letter command. I'm sorry but you're not that special. Your tool should instead denote its purpose with its name. In this case something like "sterm" or "stty" would do that perfectly without being verbose.

    • kelnos2 hours ago
      > At best it's juvenile humor.

      I thought it was quite clever, and was surprised I hadn't thought of it (given the prevalence of "tty" puns like kitty and ghostty).

      But I'm a 14 year old boy living in a 45 year old body, so I can't get enough juvenile humor. A friend of mine with similar taste in humor once said, "if I ever stop finding this stuff funny, put me in the ground", and I still wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment.

      (For example: whenever I need a quick scratch file to put some text in, I call it "shits", because then I can type "cat shits" and giggle inside my head. I'm also have cats, so I deal with cat shits daily.)

      > You don't need a two letter command. I'm sorry but you're not that special.

      This I agree with, though perhaps in a politer way.

      Regardless, though... live and let live? The existence of this doesn't harm you an any way, and your judgey moralizing is a bit much.

    • Rohansi2 hours ago
      > At worst, it's going to make adoption within companies difficult for literally no reason

      I wouldn't want to work somewhere like that. Trying to pretend that people don't swear is just dumb. It's not even offensive.

    • compiler-devel2 hours ago
      shitty is a perfectly cromulent name.
  • fishgoesblub2 hours ago
    > Shitty is moving from the imported GPL baseline to an MIT-only codebase. It does not intend to retain the GPL as the final project license.

    An interesting, and disappointing choice. Shitty, one may say.

    • naikrovek44 minutes ago
      I never understood this stance. I’ve heard this for 30 years and I still don’t understand why people feel entitled enough to enjoy the benefits of someone else’s work without giving anything back.

      Forcing someone to release their code for free isn’t freedom, that’s a lack of freedom. Oh, you want the code to be free. Well guess what? MIT licensed means you can have it. Oh, you want a third party’s changes to be made free. No. Expecting that is batshit insane.

      If someone forks this, changes it, and doesn’t release their changes, this still exists. Nothing is lost.

      When something is released under MIT, it is “released”. When GPL software is released, it “binds” anyone that works on it, adding requirements to the entity doing the work. I.e. not free.

  • myshapeprotocol2 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • h0mie3 hours ago
    [dead]
  • JSR_FDED3 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • ymir_e3 hours ago
      You mean wezterm right?