101 pointsby EugeneOZ2 hours ago15 comments
  • tosh24 minutes ago
    I can only recommend to regularly measure how many tokens a harness+model combination uses for a certain task

    There are huge token efficiency/bloat differences between agents while working on the same tasks, using the same model, in the same environment

    Yesterday I ran 10 agentic tasks using GPT 5.6 Sol in an ubuntu 26.04 vm a couple of times with different harnesses and got vastly different token usage.

      +-------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+--------+
      | Harness     | API total | Input     | Cached    | Uncached  | Output |
      +-------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+--------+
      | smol        |   172,807 |   142,334 |     8,704 |   133,630 | 30,473 |
      | Pi          |   427,211 |   392,767 |   137,216 |   255,551 | 34,444 |
      | OpenCode    | 1,564,429 | 1,523,957 | 1,204,736 |   319,221 | 40,472 |
      | Codex       | 3,005,744 | 2,953,154 | 2,649,344 |   303,810 | 52,590 |
      | Hermes      | 3,856,611 | 3,808,231 | 3,167,232 |   640,999 | 48,380 |
      | Claude Code | 5,073,137 | 5,029,969 | 4,587,008 |   442,961 | 43,168 |
      +-------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+--------+
    
    https://x.com/__tosh/status/2083593799872237680

    I'm not surprised that Claude Code is not optimized for an OpenAI model but I was still quite shocked re how much of a difference the harness makes.

    Disclaimer: I'm working on 'smol' which is a minimalist harness but it's really nothing special, just a minimal system prompt, no skills files, only tool is shell

    Do not underestimate how much popular harnesses are spamming the context window. The context window is very important.

    • yojo16 minutes ago
      Claude Code injects a ton of tools into the system prompt, including their “memory system” that’s like 10k+ tokens. Depending on your task shape, this can easily double your task cost (e.g. a low context-using job that takes many turns, like a monitoring loop).

      You should use --disallowed-tools to prune any tools not needed for the task. Note that this is also a perpetual game of whack-a-mole since they’re always adding new tools.

      • tosh3 minutes ago
        ty re --disallowed-tools

        for coding agents 'shell' is often all you need (just make sure the environment has the necessary tools)

      • visarga13 minutes ago
        The system prompt part is surely cached across all users.
        • yojo7 minutes ago
          You still pay cache token costs on API calls. Cache cost/token are 90% lower, but you pay it every single turn.

          I’m not sure if they let you skip the cache write cost on the first turn. That would imply cross-user caching infrastructure or special casing the default system prompt to give you a discount. Maybe? Away from the computer but you could try a “hello” in a fresh session and see what was billed.

        • tosh4 minutes ago
          the system prompt still takes up useful space in the context window and steers the model into unnecessary actions and over-thinking patterns
        • dcrazy10 minutes ago
          For Anthropic models, yes. But OP was using Claude Code with GPT.
    • brettgriffin7 minutes ago
      Anything else I can read about smol?

      also, are you using a tool to collect those metrics? what is it?

    • esafak21 minutes ago
      Same task? How did the results compare?
      • tosh17 minutes ago
        the tasks were all simple agentic tasks

        like creating a checksum of a file, merging csvs and so on, fixing a makefile pipeline

        with known 'good' outcomes

        all harnesses could reach the outcomes, only cost, time, number of tool uses and so on were different

        (Claude Code failed once in 1 task but I think that was just an unfortunate outlier, the tasks aren't that difficult)

  • aromanan hour ago
    I was an early and passionate adopter and paying customer of Cursor (since 2023!), but it’s probably been 6 months since I opened it.

    These days I “write” code with claude code and codex, and read/review it on GitHub. If I need to read it locally, I use a plain text editor.

    Can someone help me understand what value cursor offers in 2026?

    • joinjune21 minutes ago
      It removes money from your pocket into theirs faster than Claude will take money out of your pocket and into theirs. I was a Windsurf then Cursor user and even provided product feedback to the Cursor team on various aspects of their product but the costs for using it killed the value.
    • redox99an hour ago
      Cursor has two benefits

      1) It's still an IDE. Because of pricing I mostly use Codex, but I always have a VSCode/Cursor IDE open, thus have to juggle between the two. Working directly in the IDE is more comfortable. For full on vibecoding that might be worse, but when you want to do a deep review of the changes, an IDE is way better than reading a diff on github.

      2) It supports every model. It's often very helpful to try different models when you don't like the result of the first.

      • pwython41 minutes ago
        Can't VS Code extensions solve your use case?
        • redox9937 minutes ago
          I tried the codex extension many months ago but I didn't like it. I use mostly the Codex App, or sometimes the Codex TUI inside the IDE terminal.
          • roncesvalles19 minutes ago
            The Claude plugin for VSC is amazing and basically "solves programming" for me. It's the primary way that I write code now; I even stopped using Claude Code.
    • kalaksian hour ago
      Recently they also seem to have made big changes that makes Cursor worse for editing code by hand. I'm not sure what they are trying to do, but it doesn't feel like vscode fork anymore. I'm starting to consider alternatives.

      To answer your question though, to me your workflow seems cumbersome. Cursor is more integrated and more frictionless.

    • roncesvalles25 minutes ago
      Cursor Tab is nice when you're hand-editing stuff. Not sure it's worth $20 though. I'd totally buy and forget a $5 Cursor subscription just for Cursor Tab.

      The $20 price point is just too competitive now and I'd rather use the Claude/Codex plugin over Cursor's agentic coding sidebar.

    • leonvoss39 minutes ago
      I don't think it offers any. I got tired of switching between Codex and Claude plus I wanted to start using glm and kimi so I switch to pi. Then I got tired of VSCode eating up battery and RAM so I moved to Neovim which has barely any efficiency downside anymore since most code is not written by hand and if you know how to use it well it was only maybe 10% less efficient than VSCode to begin with. I am not sure why a heavy desktop application would be better than nvim + pi in terminal which are both super extensible via vibecoding and very light on resources.
      • urbsgpwa few seconds ago
        Huh, never thought about that 2nd point - I'm also transitioning to pi, but didn't think to change to neovim as well. I guess your logic holds for claude code users as well though.
    • brettgriffin23 minutes ago
      Look at Cursor CLI: https://cursor.com/cli
    • LeBit36 minutes ago
      How do you diff ?

      Unless by "text editor" you mean Neovim or Emacs ?

    • dancemethis15 minutes ago
      Code and reasoning generated by Opus/Fable via Cursor seems to be quite better than Claude Code's for the same prompt.
  • slashdavean hour ago
    Cursor achieved fast adoption by making it simple to move from Visual Studio code.

    Double-edged sword. It is also simple to move back to VS code and agent extensions.

  • jjice9 minutes ago
    Saw this at work yesterday. Absolute insanity to do something as user hostile as removing the cost of the service. There's no way to attempt to brand this as anything but negative for the user, and positive for the company.

    Gotta justify a $60B purchase of an IDE and (at the time) a single, decent model.

  • oooyay36 minutes ago
    Cursor was a great introduction to agentic engineering but I've learned their Claude pricing is largely just batch purchases. Their real moat I think is Composer 2.5 because both their agentic and IDE experiences fall short of Codex and Claude Desktop in my opinion. I think their sales will tell you economically they make the most sense and I would probably agree, but cost isn't everything especially when the spread isn't that wide. At this moment, capability is really king.

    These days I'm using Codex and Claude Desktop with Zen when I need to look at code. Codex's real time audio chat feature (not dictation) is also second to none when paired with their agentic flow.

    • jjice12 minutes ago
      Grok 4.5 is them as well now I guess since they're owned by spacex now. I'd consider grok 4.5 the sonnet and composer the haiku (both capable, fast models).
  • jmvoodoo14 minutes ago
    I’ve been working on a project to solve this problem with Claude code, codex, etc by recording usage and translating to $ in realtime. Looks like I’ll have to add Cursor support now.
  • dietr1ch21 minutes ago
    They just don't want you feel obligated to thank them SO MUCH for hidden better prices
  • bogometer9 minutes ago
    The ground-truth is the rudeness is load bearing at human machine interface.
  • grzes16 minutes ago
    cursor is a scam. they pissed me with their UI changes & shady pricing, so i tried claude code recently for the first time and instantly regreted i havent tried earlier
    • DoesntMatter2211 minutes ago
      Built an awesome 450k line app with composer 2.5 and grok 4.5. I love it
  • hnnbxu2nwian hour ago
    Small thing but makes a big difference
  • btownan hour ago
    I am shocked, shocked, that a company that is part of SpaceXAI would become hostile to its existing paying users and partners. This has never happened before in history.
  • shevy-java20 minutes ago
    Well ... don't use Cursor. It's really that simple.
  • sergiotapia34 minutes ago
    Cursor you have a beautiful comeback story, you have a wonderful model with Composer 2.5, and a terrific behemoth with Grok 4.5 now. A top-tier dev ux with the Cursor agent app, why on earth are you squandering this opportunity and behaving this way?

    You came back from the dead pretty much and now you're pissing it away for what exactly?

    Do not spite your individual developer customers or you will perish yet again.

  • fillbookioan hour ago
    The PM comment above matches what I've seen. Hiding a usage number doesn't remove the anxiety, it just removes the user's ability to verify it, so people pad their mental estimate upward and quietly disengage. For anything usage-billed, trust in the tool is capped by trust in the number, and you can't build that trust by making the number invisible.

    The move that actually works is the opposite: make it legible. Show the breakdown, show what drove the spike, let people reconcile it against their own expectation. A scary number you can explain beats a hidden one they have to guess at.

    Removing the CSV export is the part that stings most, because that's the one thing power users reach for the moment they stop trusting the dashboard.

    • w29UiIm2Xz24 minutes ago
      Not a single one of these tools tell me how much I just spent when I issue a prompt and it finishes inference.
    • slashdave37 minutes ago
      Is AWS listening?
  • songhonglei1985an hour ago
    [flagged]
    • jagged-chiselan hour ago
      Hiding pricing is always a negative to the customer