87 pointsby b1124 hours ago7 comments
  • dopameanan hour ago
    The article makes it sound like the information about Andro is new but it has been known for years. An SEC filing[0] from March of last year mentions it and I was able to find a post on Wall Street Oasis[1] talking about Andro three years ago. Awful, predatory behavior for sure. Is it just the issues with the World Cup ticket sales that have made people care about this?

    [0] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1337634/000119312525...

    [1] https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/andro-c...

  • dclaw2 hours ago
    End it.

    Make reselling tickets illegal again overall.

    Allow resale within 5 days of the show only (for those that genuinely can't make it), and for face value+original fees only.

    • oatmeal1an hour ago
      Live Nation needs to get the guillotine. The monopoly will find other ways of extracting value if you try to fix one problem created by it at a time.
    • LeoPantheraan hour ago
      The UK is passing a law which makes it illegal to resell event tickets for greater than the face value.
    • Analemma_an hour ago
      The fact that "the name on the ticket must match your photo ID, but you can resell at any time before the event" would instantly solve scalping problems and yet nobody does it is your clue that nobody actually wants scalping problems to be solved. Scalpers are the sin eaters for Ticketmaster and the events themselves, taking the hate so the performers don't have to.
      • brookst22 minutes ago
        How do performers benefit from scalping?
      • sofixaan hour ago
        Adding ID checks would make venue entry a slower and more tedious process.
        • janalsncm31 minutes ago
          In practice a lot of venues are already 21+ so they are already checking IDs.
        • 1986an hour ago
          In the vast majority of venues, ID checks are happening anyway to verify eligibility for drinking.
          • gonightan hour ago
            Yup, I'm in 30s and have been ID'd for every show I've gone to in the last few years.
        • gruez44 minutes ago
          >Adding ID checks would make venue entry a slower and more tedious process.

          Airports seem to handle them just fine?

          • johnthedebs34 minutes ago
            Do they? Not necessarily making an argument for or against the original point, but to me airports epitomize "slow and tedious". My hunch is that they also don't handle nearly the volume of people/time that major stadiums do during event entry.
            • gruez11 minutes ago
              >but to me airports epitomize "slow and tedious".

              That's the security check, of which id check is only one part. The bottleneck is everyone needing to take out their laptops and then repack their bags. Same with boarding. The bottleneck there is people putting their luggage into the overhead compartments.

        • irishcoffeean hour ago
          Here’s a wild idea, tie tickets to a drivers license/photo id number, and scan the id.

          Edit guess that doesn’t work for kids. Start the tickets at 10k and drop them by a percentage a day. Automatic price discovery. Rich people can just buy them whenever they want.

    • TZubiri26 minutes ago
      Not a lawyer but here's how it works:

      Illegal usually means there's a law forbidding it.

      Tickets are usually governed by the Terms and Conditions (Contract) between original purchase.

      It's already possible for the terms to forbid resale.

      So as it stands it's possible to sell untransferable tickets. And those who sell such tickets are in breach of contract, but are not breaking a law.

      What would 'making reselling tickets illegal' entail, a law that makes selling transferable tickets illegal? That would be a very weak position. A law that upgrades the resale of untransferable tickets to a crime? Again a very weak position.

      I contend that people that suggest and write laws should learn about actual law.

  • darth_avocado3 hours ago
    > StubHub and its CEO, Eric Baker, have been hit with a proposed $5-million class-action lawsuit

    This should be much higher. A class action lawsuit shouldn’t be worth less than what these people can make scalping a single Taylor Swift concert.

    This just opens an opportunity for them to settle, admit no wrongdoing and then include a clause in the settlement that prevents further lawsuits.

    • gruez2 hours ago
      IANAL, but the exact language from the complaint was:

      >WHEREFORE, Plaintiff, individually and on behalf of the Class, respectfully requests that this Court:

      >...

      >Award compensatory, statutory, and/or restitutionary damages, as applicable, in an amount to be determined at trial and that the aggregate amount in controversy across the whole class exceeds $5,000,000;

      it doesn't say that the damages are capped at 5M, only that they're asking for at least 5M.

  • vjvjvjvjghv2 hours ago
    I don’t really understand the outrage over scalpers. Isn’t this just normal market behavior? Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper?

    People seem to be willing to pay crazy prices for events.

    • Brendinooo2 hours ago
      >Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper?

      If you bought all of the food then offered the food at 10x the prices, we'd be outraged with you, yes.

      Stakes are lower because it's a luxury good, not food, but it's the same idea.

      • bawolffan hour ago
        There is a reason this doesn't work in general though.

        If you bought up all the food, farmers would raise prices until either you couldn't afford to do that anymore or eventually there is a splurge of new farmers taking advantage of all your free money until you run out of money. It could maybe work in times of famine where the government introduces price controls or rationing; it does not work in normal times.

        For black markets (which is essentially what scalping is) to work, there has to be some shortage of a good that is priced artificially low. It works with concerts because singers can only sing so much but they also don't want to make the concert so unaffordable that only millionaires can go. There are very few situations like that. In most industries you would just increase prices until supply equals demand.

        • Brendinooo33 minutes ago
          This makes sense, but I'd contend it's all the more reason for outrage: not only are scalpers doing what they're doing anyways, but they're destroying the (totally legitimate and sympathetic!) reason for "artificially" lowering the price to begin with.

          I should note that outrage doesn't seem to land on the people who buy from scalpers, which is...probably correct? Seems easier to say "don't break the contract" to scalpers instead of fans who are just able to pay more.

        • pixl97an hour ago
          Onion futures act.

          This is the reason that businesses don't try to monopolize the food industry. It's not competition as we just saw from the egg industry. The government gets pushed back from the masses pretty quickly on food related issues.

          • gruez43 minutes ago
            >This is the reason that businesses don't try to monopolize the food industry. It's not competition as we just saw from the egg industry. The government gets pushed back from the masses pretty quickly on food related issues.

            But you provided your own counterexample with eggs?

    • sushid2 hours ago
      It's not a simple buy/sell marketplace. There's no recourse for fans who purchase a confirmed ticket, only to find that the seller "doesn't have them" and see the same ticket relisted for higher if the price jumps. Stubhub prioritize these scalper relationships and doesn't meaningfully protect its buyers from getting screwed over.
    • janalsncm26 minutes ago
      You are describing rent-seeking behavior: middle men who add no economic value yet inject themselves into transactions.

      Yes, this is “normal” in the sense that it is common. It is “normal” in the same way that cancer is “normal”.

      No, this is not “normal” in the sense of being behavior the government should just tolerate. It is in the same category of market failures as monopolies and externalities.

      • brookst18 minutes ago
        So is all demand-based pricing rent-seeking? Like selling gold or a house or any other scarce good for more than you paid?
        • Brendinooo7 minutes ago
          I think that if you poke at the term "rent-seeking" with the definition of "middle men who add no economic value yet inject themselves into transactions", you'll just end up arguing about what "adding economic value" means.

          That said...if you can do that, you'll probably find that some additions of economic value are far more defensible than others, so it shouldn't all be flattened in the manner you're suggesting.

          I mean, scalpers add economic value, right?! They allow (wealthier) people who didn't stand in line at the right time to have a chance to purchase a ticket!

    • fecal_henge2 hours ago
      The ultimate customers would certainly pay more than the face price which is what the scalpers pay, yet the scalpers get all the tickets. This is abnormal market behaviour.
      • brookst15 minutes ago
        What’s normal?

        An auction would be the obvious solution, and I guess you could argue it effectively is an auction, just with initial sales that pretend to be a race and are actually sold to speculators who then run the auction.

    • andrew_lettuce2 hours ago
      The outrage is over the apparent collusion between a platform that argues it only facilitates a fan-to-fan marketplace, and a hedge fund run by the platform's CEO that sells a massive volume of resale tickets. This is definitely not on the spirit of competition regardless of it's illegal or not
    • sdthjbvuiiijbb2 hours ago
      Yes it's rational market behavior. But it bothers people for such a blatantly worthless middleman to capture all consumer surplus for themselves while providing zero value.
      • pimlottc44 minutes ago
        Which is to say, “perfectly efficient market” is not an end-goal in-and-of itself for most people
  • nubinetwork2 hours ago
    We've known for years that ticketmaster scams their tickets on StubHub. Concerts selling out instantly, to only see tons of tickets on stub...

    I'm sure if they get shut down, they'll just do it again under a different name, but they can't pretend it's a small handful of scalpers when they're the ones doing it themselves.

  • i_am_jl3 hours ago
    For StubHub to have insider dealing isn't so surprising, but I am shocked at how brazenly and openly it's occurring. Nothing covert or concealed, just the CEO of a marketplace openly admitting that they run a hedge fund that resells scalped goods on that marketplace while keeping other scalpers off the platform.
    • mistrial92 hours ago
      no, it gets more layers.. a quick search says "Through its affiliate Colloquy Capital, StubHub helps bankroll other mass ticket scalpers by providing short-term financing based on expected future sales, further inflating the volume of professional resellers on the platform." (I have no direct knowledge of these participants)
    • tailscaler20262 hours ago
      welcome to america 2026. where it's not only encouraged but expected that you're lying, cheating, and stealing your way to the top.
      • gruez2 hours ago
        2026? As if stubhub/ticketmaster only materialized after trump2?
        • treis31 minutes ago
          Ticketmaster sure but back in the day I could get tickets for a song on stubhub. That seems to be a relic of the past and the resale ticket marketplace is barely less than face value.
  • xnx2 hours ago
    Scummy behavior, but customers are also tacitly endorsing high prices when they pay $1500 for a Taylor Swift (or name your artist) ticket.
    • gruez2 hours ago
      You're not entirely wrong, but the root issue is artists not charging the market clearing price for tickets. If you're selling something worth $1000 for $200, you shouldn't be surprised arbitrageurs pop up to take advantage.
      • eightysixfour2 hours ago
        > You're not entirely wrong, but the root issue is artists not charging the market clearing price for tickets.

        Because there is value for the artist in maintaining the perception of accessibility.

        • gruezan hour ago
          That's also easy to solve. Allocate discounted tickets by lottery and bind to a name (think airline tickets). If for whatever reason they can't make it, the ticket goes back into the lottery pool. Or maybe if they want the tickets to be transferable, you can put in some nominee ticket holders (eg. max 3 people you can transfer it to).
      • bmm6o25 minutes ago
        Those arbitrageurs who extract payment without adding value should not be surprised when people are upset and demand changes.
      • godsinhisheaven2 hours ago
        I understand the arguments against charging the market clearing price, but I do just think it would be very funny for Taylor Swift to sell out a concert charging $10k+ a ticket.
      • badgersnake2 hours ago
        This argument has been made a lot on this site, mainly by people who don’t understand live music.
        • bawolffan hour ago
          What is it that they don't understand about live music?