171 pointsby xenova3 hours ago20 comments
  • motbus38 minutes ago
    I need help understanding this. I understood that the magic here is the quantization that allows it to use from 50G to 4G and their process retain most of the intelligence within Pareto limits of gain. And then they proceed to compare with other quantized models as in the level of intelligence per size. It gets to my attention though that the performance in tool calling is mostly affected which is a problem for other small models.

    How does this model compare to a recent 4G model? How do we know it retained intelligence from the parent rather then being fine tuned for the benchmarks?

    I am not shtng on them or anything. I'd rather find it amazing, BUT given my limited knowledge, I feel the results miss fair comparison plots and the ones might be misleading. Buy I also reckon it might be me the problem. Anyone care to explain this poor silly fellow some of those points?

    • 0c3ca83a minute ago
      [flagged]
    • 3 minutes ago
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  • comandillos9 minutes ago
    Quite weird that heavy quantization method on a dense model gives better results than slightly quantized MoE models like 35B-A3B from Google.

    At this point all the different quantization and 'compression' (look at MPO applied to LLMs...) techniques start feeling a bit like snake oil. It's just gut feeling - or scores on benchmarks models are optimized for - what ends up deciding whether a technique is good enough or not.

  • kristianpan hour ago
    Apparently Apple is "in talks" with the PrismML: https://www.cnbc.com/2026/07/14/apple-prismml-ai-compression...
  • Arcuru9 minutes ago
    Awesome! I've been waiting for them to start scaling ternary models for over a year[1]. Excited to try it out, typical Qwen 27B is too heavy for me to run on my local hardware at reasonable speeds.

    [1] https://jackson.dev/post/dont-sleep-on-bitnet/

  • simonw2 hours ago
    The models themselves are showing up on Hugging Face here: https://huggingface.co/prism-ml/models

    I've tried a couple in LM Studio - the GGUF one and the MLX one - but neither worked there. Anyone else get them to work? Might be that LM Studio needs to upgrade their llama.cpp or MLX engines first.

    • bansaltushar44 minutes ago
      Depending on which model you're running, you might need to use the custom forks.

      Details are here -> https://github.com/PrismML-Eng/Bonsai-demo/blob/main/README....

      • motbus36 minutes ago
        I spent quite sometime trying to install their tools and nothing really worked. I used these repos you shared but the dependencies all fail on mac
    • trollbridgean hour ago
      Didn't work for me in Unsloth, but it will probably be fixed in a day or two when the next batch of updates comes out.
  • sigbottlean hour ago
    What's the hiring space and business strategy around all of these smaller AI labs? Its really cool that people like these guys get paid to optimize models and give them out for free (open source). Do a lot of these labs have forward deployed engineers doing integrations with customers who want local models? Is there a general shift towards the local model crowd?
    • trollbridgean hour ago
      If you read to the bottom of the page, it says they're funded by a few people, and one of them is Samsung. I'm betting Samsung wants to be able to ship a capable AI system on a future model of their phone so they can compete with Apple.
      • doctoboggan25 minutes ago
        Agreed, and the prevailing wisdom now seems to be that unless you can release a truly frontier model, you might as well release yours as open source to undercut your competition.
  • liuliu2 hours ago
    The problem, of course, is if you run the UD_Q2 variant (Unsloth) which does only post-training, the number is pretty close to 1-bit model here and the 5% drop in tool-call is significant than it suggests in real-life use cases.
    • liuliu2 hours ago
      You also need to pay close attention to BFCLv3 multi-turn result, that helps you to get a sense how frequently these quants will be in a doom loop.
  • alvatech2 hours ago
    TIL that 1 bit models are actually 1.58 bit with three values +1, 0 and -1
    • NitpickLawyer2 hours ago
      There's two variants of this (or, as the joke goes, for very big values of bit):

      Ternary Bonsai 27B uses ternary {−1, 0, +1} weights with FP16 group-wise scaling, giving a true 1.71 effective bits per weight.

      1-bit Bonsai 27B uses binary {−1, +1} weights with the same group-wise scaling, giving 1.125 effective bits per weight.

      • PcChipan hour ago
        this is a really dumb question, but how is -1 represented?

        is it a float? if so, how many bits is the float?

        I've never heard of a bit ever having more than two possible values

        • petu36 minutes ago
          packing multiple trits together

          e.g. 5 trits (243 states) into a byte gives 1.6 bits per trit: https://compilade.net/blog/ternary-packing

        • zawaideh39 minutes ago
          It’s still a bit with only two possible values. But they add a scaling factor to a group of them (128 for example) which when you factor in, results in a fractional number of bits per parameter.
          • throwawayffffas2 minutes ago
            I believe the scaling comes in later, to turn the 1 and -1 into large numbers that may or may not activate the next layer.

            The way they do it is packing like the other comment says.

            Each byte represents 5 trinary values instead of 8 binary, and there is a little bit of waste.

    • bensyverson2 hours ago
      Yeah, it's an unfortunate convention from the very first "1 bit" model. But to be clear, Bonsai comes in both ternary and actual 1-bit variants.
  • luckystarran hour ago
    Tried it on Android and got "!!!!!!!!!!!!!" for answers.
    • gunalx33 minutes ago
      The qwen models really seem to have this as a failure mode, its so annoying having a proper trace ending up in !!!!!! Garbage.
    • verdverm32 minutes ago
      That's what happens when you quant too hard. I'm working on quant strats and evals for the same underlying qwen 27b models.

      When I saw 27b on a phone, I thought not fitting, big phone, or aggressive quant. NVFP4 still takes 27G before KV cache.

  • erwan577an hour ago
    The KV-cache memory usage also seems remarkably frugal, even at the full context length. That could make this model particularly useful in multi-agent coding workflows.

    I wish KV-cache memory usage and related optimizations were discussed more clearly in new model announcements and demos.

    • verdverm29 minutes ago
      quanting kv cache hurts attention / recall, and long-form tasks by proxy. Model families and sizes have different tolerances to quant ting different parts of the model, same for intended tasks.
  • syntaxing2 hours ago
    For those curious about their demo, I’m pretty sure it’s using Locally AI (iOS only) that lmstudio acquired/aquihired a couple months ago.
  • thomasjban hour ago
    I've been watching and waiting for this, interested to see how smart it is, as it fits with my interest of getting the smartest possible model running in 10GB of VRAM (RTX3060 that has to drive 2 monitors and run an llm)
    • dakolli24 minutes ago
      start saving your money.
  • syntaxingan hour ago
    I don’t know if the llama cpp implementation is wonky (and only supports the binary version) but it’s a lot slower than 35B-A3B @ Q4_KM + MTP with CPU offloading.
    • pulse7an hour ago
      Most probably not optimized yet for this model...
  • wy3522 minutes ago
    Entire blog post seems to be AI-generated :/
    • wmf11 minutes ago
      Do you think people who work on AI for a living are not going to use it?
  • xyzsparetimexyz2 hours ago
    That's awesome. What's the largest model that could fit onto a single 16gb gpu at 1.125 effects bits per weight?
    • Catloafdevan hour ago
      Doing some naive math, the F16 filesize is ~53.8gb, the 1-bit version is ~3.8gb, about 7% of the original size. The F16 size is roughly 2x param count, so that gives a rough ballpark of ~110B.
  • erelong2 hours ago
    I was trying Ornith 9B locally (it's up on Ollama) which claims:

    > Ornith-1.0-9B, which can be easily deployed on edge devices, matches or exceeds the performance of much larger models such as Gemma 4-31B and Qwen 3.6 35B.

    https://deep-reinforce.com/ornith_1_0.html

    Only tried it so much so far; it did a little better than Qwen 9B

    • liuliu2 hours ago
      Note that 3.5 9B cannot do thinking (while 3.6 27B can, pretty effectively, quite verbosely).
      • gunalx30 minutes ago
        3.5 9B can do thinking. Its just disabled by default in its gguf chat template.
    • janalsncman hour ago
      Is that a 1-bit LLM? I don’t understand the connection with this article.
      • erelongan hour ago
        Oh, I don't actually know the difference if you want to explain it

        The title says it's 27B grade running on a phone and what I was comparing it to in my mind was a model that runs at 35B grade that could presumably run on a phone "better"?

        edit: I asked AI for the difference and understand a little better, thanks for the heads up to learn the difference between models... I think the thing was, although ornith was created for a specific agentic purpose, it was still outperforming a previous generalist model I had running locally (so in my mind I thought it was still a better local model) - I'd like to try bonsai out if I can figure out how to run it lol

    • verdverm26 minutes ago
      Orinth was not impressive in my vibes testing, I just completed my first grid analysis with real evals on qwen 27b. I can now scale that grid analysis and intend to include the qwen 9b ftunes I've seen going around. They were actually a main motivation because so many claim this or that one is better, but very little in the way of evals
  • Havoc2 hours ago
    This must be some sort of unpublished app?

    I can just see their image tool on the app store

  • pdfopsan hour ago
    [dead]
  • ai_fry_ur_brain2 hours ago
    [dead]
  • theLiminator17 minutes ago
    This is useful research, but this particular model itself is likely absolutely useless.
    • oceansweep15 minutes ago
      Why make this comment without having tried it first? It very clearly is not useless and performs a lot better than one might expect. I am currently waiting to do more benchmarks of it in comparison to the full weight model, but it seems promising/better than Mistral Nemo at a lower file size.
      • Onavo8 minutes ago
        I think what OP means is that the "minimum viable product" for a daily use LLM is probably somewhere around e.g. GPT 4o's level of intelligence (YMMV). Below a certain threshold, you are better off using specialized machine learning models rather than general purpose LLMs. It's very difficult to get that level of intelligence fully local on a mobile device without streaming to the cloud.