93 pointsby bilsbie6 hours ago18 comments
  • samuell5 hours ago
    While I understand this is a PR talk for a startup, I think the text itself contains a number of interesting observations.

    Regarding the idea of distributed models communicating with each other, I have also been thinking (and writing [1]) along those lines, where I see that the data amounts needed to fully digitalize ourselves and our society requires far too much storage if just serialized (limited by bandwidth if nothing else), while smart, updateable models are actually a much better storage medium for such information, as it can communicate only the important bits (any new information) on a higher level, with each other.

    The other observation here that rings bells for me is how I think lessons from trying to develop intelligent systems should upvalue the human mind rather than devalue it, as we start to treat it less like an ad-hoc thing, and more like the finely tuned machine it is, which also benefits greatly from optimizing what data we feed it with, the architecture of solution strategies etc. All of which is an area where humans and machines can do wonders together [2].

    [1] https://livingsystems.substack.com/p/the-future-of-data-less...

    [2] https://livingsystems.substack.com/p/ai-progress-should-upgr...

    • MichaelZuo12 minutes ago
      This doesnt seem to make sense.

      Since there is no current widespread agreement on the current “value” of the human mind, how could anyone in the future conclusively determine it went up, or down?

      It seems literally impossible by definition regardless of what happens in the future.

  • numeri4 hours ago
    Seems to echo (but in a watered down form) many of the ideas in https://gwern.net/guardian-angel, which gave me a lot to think about last week
    • gizajob3 hours ago
      First: we had AI nothing Now: we have an AI manifesto Soon: maybe even some kind of AI product if we can think of one.
  • mikelitoris4 hours ago
    This has 1984 “war is peace” vibes, coming from an AI company.
    • smcg2 hours ago
      It seems to ignore that AI can be used for bad things (autonomous weapons).
      • idbnstra2 hours ago
        really?

        > The power to shape a model profoundly is also the power to shape it for ill. John von Neumann remarked on this problem in 1955, writing that the useful and the harmful aspects of technology “lie everywhere so close together that it is never possible to separate the lions from the lambs.” Keeping the lambs safe is an ongoing process, the result of judgment exercised and choices made continuously. We aim to give the people making these choices stronger tools, pursuing research that enables safer models without taking away ownership.

  • aledevv4 hours ago
    > Artificial intelligence can do more every day, but deciding what it should do is up to us

    > For artificial intelligence to benefit from distributed knowledge, it must itself be distributed.

    I wish to highlight these two important concepts, with which I fully agree.

    Artificial intelligence must enable all of humanity to excel and realize its full potential; it must not be used for the purposes of war, economic competition, or gaining dominance over others.

    In other words: artificial intelligence must serve natural intelligence, not the other way around.

    • chrisweekly4 hours ago
      > "[AI] must not be used for the purposes of war, economic competition, or gaining dominance over others"

      Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, this seems extraordinarily unlikely.

      • nativeit2 hours ago
        Its likelihood is moot. It’s happening every day at this point.
    • pmg1014 hours ago
      A massive amount of human natural intelligence goes into war, economic competition and gaining dominance over others though?
      • pixl974 hours ago
        And so will AI, as gathered by a lot of the news around it.
  • ninju3 hours ago
    They better start making progress

    https://ai-2027.com/

  • q8zd35 hours ago
    Great time to be a PR firm owner.
  • Glandalf4 hours ago
    Thinking Machines is back? Or is this a jaded attempt to use the brand for cache?
    • NitpickLawyer4 hours ago
      Not that one. This one is a start-up founded by ex-oAI CTO Mira Murati. Last I heard they were mainly doing hosted finetunes with a few clicks on popular open models.
    • gizajob3 hours ago
      So unoriginal that they didn’t even realise the history of Thinking Machines and that usage when they scrambled around for any kind of name after leaving OpenAI to suck on the nipple of venture capital with ideas at the level of GitHub freebies.
  • jas-an hour ago
    It reads like a Turing test bot doesn’t it? Sus
  • whywhywhywhy5 hours ago
    Why would you call your company Thinking Machines if you believe this, by calling them that you're already framing them as replacing the human act of thinking.

    Feels like they appropriated the name first, then pivoted ideologically to differentiate themselves from everyone else.

    • reb5 hours ago
      The advent of thinking machines only replaces human thinking if humans choose to stop thinking.
      • discreteevent4 hours ago
        Sure, humans will be sitting at home unemployed with plenty of time to think. They just won't be doing any thinking that has much of an affect on the world or their situation.
        • loa_in_2 hours ago
          Unless the whole paradigm shifts and we value caring about our neighbours whoever they might be. Do what people do best, make a village.
    • kevindamm5 hours ago
      It doesn't have to imply replacement. Do you stop thinking just because other humans can?
      • pixl974 hours ago
        Looking at reality TV, I think people may have stopped thinking.
    • Davidzheng4 hours ago
      To add to others, thinking was never only a human act
      • wartywhoa233 hours ago
        But no other species were fed up with thinking as much as humans to come up with this brilliant way to commit mental suicide by succumbing to their own brainchild.
    • bitwize4 hours ago
      What's super cringe is that there already was a company called Thinking Machines, which built the Connection Machine supercomputer. The CM was featured in the movie Jurassic Park and had a network fabric for its CPUs co-designed by Richard Feynman.

      This is yet another techbro outfit (although founded by a techsis) necromancing the name of the former supercomputer company. It's as if OpenAI decided to call itself Symbolics for the associations with that name.

  • halfax5 hours ago
    so in this new AI LM / agent world , AI is only going to be as good as the "AI Conductor". The human which can build the rules, validate the output , and Conduct the AI properly
    • loa_in_5 hours ago
      Or a whole lot of people. Like a team who put human beings in space. We can do great things that a single person cannot.
  • threethirtytwo2 hours ago
    I wonder what would happen if OpenAI or anthropic just let their frontier models go into an infinite agentic self improvement loop with access to same training resources that was used to build the model itself.

    "You goal is to improve your memory, context window, accuracy, intelligence and eliminate hallucinations. Do anything you need to do to improve, this includes building another version of a frontier model, or some other different concept other than an LLM/transformer and then forwarding this directive to that new improved intelligence to continue this infinite loop of agentic self improvement."

  • Oras5 hours ago
    > We train strong models

    Where? When? Unless I missed any of their models

    • alansaber12 minutes ago
      Reads better than > We write strong blogs (i like their blogs)
  • api6 hours ago
    My experience is that AI is just that, a “mech suit for your brain.” It has no creativity or volition but has superhuman memory, superhuman speed, and superhuman context in some narrow cases.

    So it takes a thought and unfolds it, looks up relevant thoughts and information, elaborates, works through implications, and in some cases can execute.

    You could do all that but like doing math manually it would take forever. You could manually calculate a spreadsheet too.

    • dgellow4 hours ago
      I disagree. LLMS take a human thought, simplify it, normalize it, remove it from its original context, inject it with their own biases and prejudices, assume an imaginary context. They bastardize human thoughts into something fairly generic.

      The comparison with manual calculation or other mechanical operations doesn’t work, LLMs don’t work at the same level of abstraction, they take over the decision making human generally do. When you write code or write a text, us humans are continuously taking lots of small decisions, we don’t just translate 1:1 a thought to an artifact. And that’s the part that is taken over by LLMs.

      • Silagi2 hours ago
        That model simplifies thought into a painfully linear process, and overestimates the creativity people put into the "small decisions" that push a project forward. Most decisions are arbitrary and need to be reconsidered later anyway. And any real creative work has a "push it far enough to find the edge cases, then go back to the initial design and iterate" loop cycle anyway.

        AI significantly speeds up the "Find where this spec breaks down, then lets go back to the design stage" in a way that should enable any creative person to create more interesting and useful work. If the output is slop, that reflects on the operator, not the tool.

      • apian hour ago
        If they do that you’re using them wrong, or trying to use them as a substitute for thinking which they’re not.

        You are the one in charge doing the primary thinking and guidance. The AI is an amplifier and a search engine basically.

    • jdiff5 hours ago
      Won't you suffer from muscle atrophy in a such a low-G environment?
      • bflesch5 hours ago
        Can't atrophy something that never existed.
      • short_sells_poo5 hours ago
        Inevitably yes, the question is whether the combined cyborg is still better than the original human.

        E.g. I'm sure we are generally less skilled in mental arithmetic since the advent of the calculator, but it has allowed us to solve vastly more complex problems in the end.

        • trashb4 hours ago
          > E.g. I'm sure we are generally less skilled in mental arithmetic since the advent of the calculator, but it has allowed us to solve vastly more complex problems in the end.

          This is like saying we have been getting a lot worse at walking since the advent of the car but it has allowed us to practice global trade in the end.

          Yes cars are a part of the solution but there are a lot more factors at play.

          A calculator does not do math, a calculator (and computer) calculates or computes. The math is the study and understanding of the problem space (and the problem solving) that the human is doing behind the calculator.

          "solve vastly more complex problems" the calculator has accelerated this but it is not really a cause effect relation. The advancements in the understanding of the complex problems could've also happened without calculators and the computation could have been done instead (for example) with 1000 people in a bunker.

          • derektank4 hours ago
            By vastly more complex problems, I think the parent is referring to engineering problems, not mathematical problems. And in this case quantity has a quality all its own. Yes, 1000 people in a bunker could in theory do the calculations necessary to refine airframes or planetary scale weather modeling, practically they would be impossible economically and would never be solved
            • fragmede4 hours ago
              We did get to the Moon on slide rules and human women calculators, and we haven't been back in person since.
  • Fricken4 hours ago
    We power AI with methane because it's a powerful greenhouse gas. That's because the future worth destroying is human. If it wasn't we wouldn't be destroying it, duh.
    • parineum3 hours ago
      It's a good thing we're using that methane to power AI instead of releasing it into the atmosphere, right?
  • moralestapia5 hours ago
    Oh man, all of these press releases are definitely worth billions of dollars.
    • siquick5 hours ago
      They're making a "few hundred million of ARR" - not bad for a company who only launched their first product, a training platform called Tinker in October last year.

      https://x.com/deedydas/status/2072340532718887068

      • bix64 hours ago
        Show me the receipts. Thats one guy on a podcast.
    • Rebuff50075 hours ago
      This is the 6th blog post, making the average cost per post only $333 million! What a steal for the VCs.
  • samso263 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • CurbStomper4 hours ago
    [dead]
  • brk5 hours ago
    I guess we are recycling company names now? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_Machines_Corporation

    (I know, Corp vs. Lab).

    • bradleyy5 hours ago
      If it doesn't have 65,536 Motorola 1-bit processors connected in a 12-dimensional hypercube, and a stunning case designed by Tamiko Thiel, I'm out.
    • whywhywhywhy5 hours ago
      So weird to re-use the name of something so iconic.
      • brk4 hours ago
        That was my thought, but I also think we're at the point that the iconic companies that have come and gone 30+ years ago are unknown to the current crop of young-ish startup founders.

        I would be really curious to know if the current Thinking Machines team had any awareness of the prior company, or if they landed on that name completely unaware.

        IMO this shows how we have been pursuing many of these goals for half a century now.

      • gizajob3 hours ago
        It’s not weird if you don’t comprehend the history of AI before coming up with your brilliant new take for a productless AI startup.
      • BoingBoomTschak4 hours ago
        Made me think that the current LLM world would be better represented by this album title: https://www.discogs.com/master/61653-Carbonized-Screaming-Ma...