53 pointsby pseudolus2 hours ago19 comments
  • orthoxerox38 minutes ago
    Dazzle camouflage doesn't work on killer drones. Even civilian LLMs recognize that the object on the photograph is a military truck, except they can't explain why it's been painted to resemble a zebra. Most dedicated machine vision models easily lock in on a boxy shape moving along a road. If anything, the stripes make the trucks easier to see.

    The real answer to killer drones is a CIWS that can cover 2pi steradians and attack multiple drones at the same time, because otherwise it will be just swarmed by drones that quietly glide towards it, engines off, from several directions before entering the final dive.

    • ukd135 minutes ago
      • atoav26 minutes ago
        Until drones deploy counter-blinkenlights. As someone who has built a realtime people tracker art installation in a disco: Stroboscopes are highly effective at confusing these models.
        • ukd110 minutes ago
          Ya, things always evolve, and can't always be perfect, especially against adapting enemies. Strobes; ya - would be interesting to see what these do vs us, not tried.
    • yogthos36 minutes ago
      The difference is that a neural network you can fit on a drone is going to be a lot less capable than an LLM you can run on a desktop.
      • MengerSponge28 minutes ago
        Doesn't a fiber tether give its drone desktop-class computing?
        • vanviegen24 minutes ago
          Fiber tethered drones don't need to be AI controlled.
          • rjsw20 minutes ago
            They can have AI enabled graphics in the goggles of the operator.
          • trhway9 minutes ago
            how else would you control 2M drones at the same time? Mechanical Turk?
    • 1over13724 minutes ago
      CIWS?
      • rdist18 minutes ago
        Close-In Weapon System

        The Phalanx defense systems you see on naval vessels.

        • orthoxerox9 minutes ago
          Yeah, just a smaller version, naval CIWS are designed to shoot down missiles.
    • 24 minutes ago
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  • davidwritesbugs42 minutes ago
    As a bonus it will also repel horse flies.

    https://www.science.org/content/article/zebra-stripes-confus...

  • lelandfe19 minutes ago
    A tip from a 2024 Google paper[0]:

    > It's important to note that the risk of misuse is significantly lower for individuals who have never had typical speech patterns

    How to Hide from Killer Drones:

    It's important to note that that the risk of being riddled with drone bullets is significantly lower for individuals who have never had human physical characteristics.

    [0] https://research.google/blog/restoring-speaker-voices-with-z...

  • ahartmetzan hour ago
    Oh, so dazzle camouflage is back. I wonder if the more sophisticated "classic" patterns would work better. They certainly do for human observers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage

  • delichonan hour ago
    Twenty four years later I'm still looking for ways to evade the spider drones deployed by PreCrime in Minority Report.
  • srameshc18 minutes ago
    This title scared me, not for myself but more thinking about how kids will probably need to learn these things next. We are such strange 'intelligent' creatures who have figured out everything but not to be at peace with each other.
  • haunter24 minutes ago
    You don't

    /r/CombatFootage (NSFL)

  • tcp_handshakeran hour ago
    • lifestyleguru5 minutes ago
      "stay inside" scare... from late 2019...
    • echelon36 minutes ago
      Prescient.

      This film predated the Ukraine war, and it felt like fiction six years ago.

      This is absolutely coming.

      The government is concerned about who might print a 3D gun, but this is the real danger.

      • corky_buchek19 minutes ago
        The Ukraine war started in 2014.
        • Terr_15 minutes ago
          True, but I think OP's core message is that the movie pre-dated the broader invasion and subsequent drone-heavy combat.
        • NDlurker11 minutes ago
          Predated the widespread use of small drones in Ukraine
  • trhwayan hour ago
    Half the time it is the nighttime and the things are in IR https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47000051 . You may still try to camouflage and decrease your IR visibility - stealth planes try to do it, and there are some IR-decreasing covers for tanks and people.

    The night time hunt using IR is widely practiced today in Ukraine and even was widely practiced by US and USSR in Afghanistan and Iraq as surroundings gets cooled down and cars, people and say donkeys used to transport weapons in mountains become highly contrast against the surroundings and thus easy to spot visually and to lock IR seeker of a weapon. Saddam used USSR anti-ship missiles, old even then, to attack Iran oil storage tanks at night as the missiles were easily able to lock on that large bright IR emission of the tanks still hot from the day against the cold night desert.

  • essephan hour ago
    If you're really interested in this kind of thing, Grand Thumb on YouTube has a couple of videos about it. I think it was Dirty Civilian on YouTube that had a good video on how to prepare hide sites and the impact of using the right laundry detergent as to reduce or eliminate IR brightener chemicals, etc.
  • 39 minutes ago
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  • stefan_an hour ago
    This is an odd article that tries to elevate some random grunt in the field painting their truck white stripes to grand battlefield strategy in the face of autonomous AI killer drones. Neither are the latter real nor is the former actually in widespread use, and it obviously is not effective, not least because the drones it's talking about barely have the resolution at altitude to resolve that detail.
    • joezydecoan hour ago
      • stefan_36 minutes ago
        Yes, media see a snapdragon running a YOLO and go off writing "AI apocalypse autonomous killer drones" articles.

        See it for yourselves: https://x.com/RALee85/status/2071537561059692956

        Some object detection and (human triggered) terminal guidance. It's essentially there to solve latency and control issues for a fixed wing platform with a spotty data link.

        • joezydeco23 minutes ago
          If it works, who cares how it's made?
    • trhwayan hour ago
      >not least because the drones it's talking about barely have the resolution at altitude to resolve that detail.

      the drones are used in groups. That is for example how we have a lot of footage of the drones hitting targets. The drone observers or especially the intelligence drone guiding the group would frequently carry much better camera than the actual kamikaze drones (especially when it comes to high-resolution IR cameras which are expensive). In the fully autonomous AI mode the drone is usually given small target area where to operate (in particular because they aren't yet smart enough to differentiate Ukranians from Russians, so you'd like to confine their operations to a limited area and not letting it into the totally free hunt) and regular 4K camera is sufficient there. Again, there is a lot of footage on YT an TG.

      • stefan_18 minutes ago
        You are mixing more things. There's lots of ISR drones flying around, from DJIs at 50-150m altitude to bigger fixed wing platforms at 1000-1500m. Their point is to find targets, do BDA and monitor, but not autonomously; it's guys sitting in Discord calls and entering data into BMS.

        Most kamikaze drones are FPVs. They can not do anything autonomously because at $300 a pop in a totally GNSS denied environment, after 10 seconds past takeoff none of them have the faintest clue where they are. That's why you see all that footage, they just skip the part where for the first 20 minutes some guy with goggles is navigating them. The bigger fixed wing kamikaze drones like the Hornet above might have better onboard options like VO or triangulating radio beacons, but by all the evidence they are still guided by operators and triggered to dive manually. The biggest issue for all these systems is maintaining their video data link; if they were truly totally autonomous, nobody would bother.

  • ButlerianJihad2 hours ago
    Machine Learning CAPTCHA https://m.xkcd.com/2228/
  • sleepyguyan hour ago
    If anyone here is into drones, manufactures, ideas, or wants to either use their drone piloting skills or learn how to pilot drones. Ukraine is recruiting for positions.

    https://usforces.army/en

    • kakacik43 minutes ago
      Just beware that being part of the drone team isnt some comfy safe job far from danger, they are the most hated type of unit currently since they are deciding large part of this war (and any future war it seems). I see videos of ie glide bombs used by both sides targetting specifically positions of drone teams.

      If all this is clear and you go ahead, all the power to ya, fighting evil in this world is highly commendable.

      • wartywhoa2332 minutes ago
        > fighting evil in this world is highly commendable

        Except more often than not it is fighting not evil but sleeping civilians who don't support this war, which is not even war in the strict sense of the word, but a deliberate meatgrinder set up to devour as much human beings on both sides as its orchestrators can get away with, for as long as possible.

        • vanviegen11 minutes ago
          Is there any evidence suggesting that Ukraine is targeting civilians?

          And what 'orchestrators' exactly do you think benefit from sending their soldiers through a meat grinder? Yes, Russia (not Ukraine) has done a lot of that, but you seem to think that getting their own soldiers killed was their goal..?

          • Pay088 minutes ago
            > Is there any evidence suggesting that Ukraine is targeting civilians?

            Don't you know that big bad Ukraine forced innocent little Russia into this war?! (Do I need to add the sarcasm mark?)

            > but you seem to think that getting their own soldiers killed was their goal..?

            Actually, to some extent, that is the case. Russia has been conscripting violent criminals (generally murderers and rapists), who, unlike normal prisoners getting conscripted, don't have a way to "earn" their freedom and are instead sent into the proverbial meat grinder.

      • yogthos14 minutes ago
        And drone operators aren't taken prisoner either as a rule.
      • trhway37 minutes ago
        Like sharpshooters, the drone operators are usually executed instead of being taken POW.
  • proshno17 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • jesuswasjewan hour ago
    [flagged]
    • input_shan hour ago
      > Are paywalls ok?

      > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds.

      > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic. More here.

      https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

  • karim79an hour ago
    [flagged]
    • 41 minutes ago
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    • leptons30 minutes ago
      [flagged]
  • therobots92720 minutes ago
    Censorship is alive and well on this cursed site
    • Pay0812 minutes ago
      How so?
      • therobots92710 minutes ago
        Any comment about Gaza getting flagged in under a minute
        • Pay087 minutes ago
          Flagging irrelevant comments isn't censorship...