41 pointsby amelius4 hours ago20 comments
  • zh33 hours ago
    First place to look when this sort of thing happens is pprune.org - lots of pilots on there, often with specific knowledge of the aircraft type and/or of the incident itself.

    In this case: https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/672872-ryanair-...

    • mysterydip32 minutes ago
      That top reply made me laugh out loud:

      “>Glad it turned out well.

      >Wonder what the Ryanair social media team is going to do with this one

      Ryanair introducing new additional charge to have a window.”

  • skrebbel2 hours ago
    > A report in a Hungarian publication claims, "A passenger was sucked into the window by the change in air pressure, with the 61-year-old man's head sticking out of the plane. Witnesses say his wife grabbed him, which was the reason he wasn't pulled out of the plane by the lower air pressure outside." [translation by Google]

    Points for the wife!

    (from https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/672872-ryanair-...)

  • clickety_clack3 hours ago
    Well, this isn’t very typical, I’d like to make that point.

    Look, the windows not supposed to fall off, for a start. These things are built to rigorous aeronautical engineering standards — cardboard’s out, cardboard derivatives, no cellotape, no string. So chance in a million, really.

    And to be clear, the plane that the window fell off was flown to safety. So there’s nothing out there but birds, air, wind and clouds… and the window that fell off.

    • anaidioschrono2 hours ago
      The (hilarious) reference: https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM
    • RetroTechie2 hours ago
      The window didn't "fall off". In article's 1st paragraph:

      "debris from a dramatic engine failure caused damage to the aircraft's window"

      That's high-velocity pieces of metal. Hard to prevent that from shattering a window if engine housing didn't catch it.

      How much stronger, thicker & heavier you want to make those windows? Costing how much more fuel? To save how many lives per year?

      I'd think airplane builders (note: not airlines!) are more qualified to make that calculation than armchair safety 'experts'.

      • IAmBroom5 minutes ago
        The comment you are replying to is a reference to a famous comedy skit (about the whole front of an oceanliner falling off, and the official company response).
      • clickety_clackan hour ago
        Well there are a lot of these airplanes going around the world all the time, and very seldom does anything like this happen. I just don’t want people thinking that airplanes aren’t safe.
      • dingalingan hour ago
        Fan and turbine failures are supposed to be contained by the engine casing - it's part of certification. But as we see here, uncontained failures do occur. In general "airplane builders" do the absolute minimum to meet certification so they're not going to add reinforcement to protect against such an event until they're forced Into doing so by the authorities.

        Turboprops can't, of course, contain a propellor failure which is why they have a big slab of armour in line with the prop disk. So in that case, yes, safety wins over cost and weight.

      • SirFattyan hour ago
        whoosh..
    • ithkuil31 minutes ago
      I just want to make the point that this is not normal
    • bombcar2 hours ago
      The plane was towed outside the atmosphere.
  • flutas3 hours ago
    Extremely similar to Southwest flight 1380 which killed a person in the US after they were partially sucked out of a broken window from an engine failure.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1380

    • bombcar2 hours ago
      This would all be solved if the engines were out in front of the plane like podracers.
    • w4der3 hours ago
      And both were Boeing 737s ... (albeit different variants)
  • consumer4512 hours ago
    Lesson learned for Ryanair leadership: charge more for seats not in range of debris from uncontained turbine failures.

    Seriously though, as an aviation geek, I always avoid those seats when given a choice.

    • weinzierl2 hours ago
      Seats near the engine are loud, so two birds, one stone.
    • AnimalMuppet2 hours ago
      Serious question: Which seats are the ones that are in range? Just in front of the wing, or just behind it?
      • consumer4512 hours ago
        Hopefully someone can give a more informed comment. For me, it's the seats directly in-line with the first turbine, and a few seats back.

        edit: Well, I hope we are beyond boohoo LLM based info now. Here is Fable 5 High's explanation, and I loosely verified it. I post this to save many watts of energy due to others asking the same thing.

        Simplified:

        > I'd like to avoid seats in the rotor burst zone: the rows roughly in line with the plane of the engine's fan and turbine disks, plus a few rows fore and aft of that.

        More details:

        > The term you're looking for is the rotor burst zone — sometimes called the uncontained engine rotor failure (UERF) debris zone. That's the phrase an aerospace engineer or pilot would immediately recognize.

        > Here's the physics behind it: the fan, compressor, and turbine disks in a jet engine spin at enormous speeds (turbine disks can exceed 10,000 RPM). If a disk or blade lets go and the containment case can't hold it, the fragments fly out tangentially — meaning they travel in the plane of rotation of that disk, perpendicular to the engine's axis. They don't spray forward or backward much; they carve out a relatively narrow band.

        > FAA guidance (Advisory Circular 20-128A, which designers use to minimize hazards from these events) models the debris path as the plane of each rotor stage plus roughly ±15 degrees fore and aft of it. Since an engine has multiple rotor stages spread along its length, the combined hazard band along the fuselage is a few rows wide, centered roughly abeam the engines.

        • consumer45140 minutes ago
          Child comment if anyone would care to explain which info in the parent comment is incorrect.
    • 2 hours ago
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  • rediguanayum2 hours ago
    Good photo of the broken window in Aviation Herald: https://avherald.com/h?article=53ba2a01&opt=0

    More discussion in: Airliners.net: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1510797&...

    • dhosek2 hours ago
      That photo ws in the main article as well.
  • pfdietz4 hours ago
    This is one reason to always be wearing your seat belt tightly when flying.
    • root-parent3 hours ago
      Because its a Ryanair flight?
      • Peanuts992 hours ago
        Ryanair has a pretty high safety record, they fly modern, well maintained planes because their margins are lower and they make them up in volume.
        • MikeNotThePope40 minutes ago
          Fun fact: Ryanair owns its fleet outright, and (currently) buys all of its new planes from cash flow. Pretty unusual for a major airline.
      • pfdietz3 hours ago
        :)
    • hulitu4 hours ago
      Common, it never happened to me. /s
      • pfdietz4 hours ago
        "Low probability very high consequence situation has never happened to me, therefore I needn't do anything." -- someone who doesn't understand expectation in probability.
        • tgsovlerkhgsel3 hours ago
          They even put a "/s" at the end of their comment...
          • pfdietz20 minutes ago
            I wasn't referring to them directly, so I have plausible deniability.
  • culopatin3 hours ago
    I wonder if Ryanair is going to charge them for being oversized to fit through their designated window.
  • Banania3 hours ago
    From https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgk65knkyzdo Media reports in Greece and Germany quoted passengers describing a loud bang followed by the window breaking and oxygen masks falling from the ceiling shortly after the Boeing 737 had taken off.

    They believe the window was smashed by pieces of the jet's engine - although Ryanair has not commented on this.

  • comrade12343 hours ago
    Would it be strange to not have any windows on a plane? You could put thin oled panels on the wall instead. Seems like that would be more structurally sound.
    • NBJack2 hours ago
      I suspect you'd lose the sense of depth that helps make the plane feel less small. There's also a safety factor for situational awareness; many carriers require shades to be open for the cabin crew to figure out the safest side to evacuate on in an emergency.
      • bombcar2 hours ago
        You could do something with mirrors, but the safety cards reference looking out the windows before opening the emergency doors, so I bet you need at least SOME.
    • lawlorino2 hours ago
      I could see this being a safety issue if there’s a problem with the wing or engine and the panels fail, so zero visibility. Its why they ask you to open the window blinds during take off and landing
      • fian2 hours ago
        It's also so that rescue personnel can see into the plane in the event it crashes.
        • IAmBroom2 minutes ago
          Odd. Rescue personnel aren't typically high enough to see in through the windows.
    • AnimalMuppet2 hours ago
      I like to be able to look out the window, especially when we hit rough air. Seeing the fixed external reference helps me, for whatever reason.
      • onionisafruit2 hours ago
        Presumably for the same reason looking out the windshield helps with car sickness.
  • 3 hours ago
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  • drcongo43 minutes ago
    On a Boeing? No way!
  • root-parent3 hours ago
    R.Y.A.N.A.I.R. — Remove Yourself And Never Ask If Refunded
    • bombcar2 hours ago
      £5 and we’ll drop you off at home before we land! Save the trip back from the airport.
  • lokar2 hours ago
    He was pushed, not sucked. Pressure never sucks.
    • IAmBrooma minute ago
      Counterpoint: peer pressure.

      Checkmate, science!

    • onionisafruitan hour ago
      edit: Never mind me. I think I was wrong about this.

      Colloquially speaking, it sucks. It’s like saying vacuum cleaners technically blow. It might be true but everybody knows it as sucking.

  • NordStreamYacht2 hours ago
    Boeing 737
  • niwtsol3 hours ago
    I thought that the speed of the air moving outside of the plane had a bigger impact on the pressure imbalance that causes someone to be "sucked out" of plane. It appears that is a false belief, the inside/outside pressure difference is from the artificial pressurization of the internal cabin. I blame a high school physics teacher for the memorable "why does a soft top convertible poof out when driving fast?" question as a preamble to explaining bernoulli for my false assumption.
    • SwiftyBug2 hours ago
      I learned about the artificial pressurization not too long ago. But until I read your comment, I assumed that in a case like that, the inside and outside pressures would balance shortly and the sucking would cease. Now it occurred to me that maybe the pressurization system will continue to try to compensate pressure in a situation where pressure can´t be stabilized due to a broken window, which would cause the sucking to go on. Not sure if that would be the case. Anyone knows what happens?
  • lambdadelirium2 hours ago
    SUCTION
  • 484884843 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • trolleski3 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • pta20022 hours ago
      Ryanair has only ever lost a plane once, due to a bird strike with only some injuries, and they are one of biggest airlines by number of flights (if not the biggest).

      Turns out plane accidents are expensive, and the reputation loss as well. Don't even need to lose the plane, just the plane being stuck on the ground is expensive (they are also one of the most timely airlines because of this). Really can not afford to have accidents!

    • dylan6042 hours ago
      Cheap, safe, fast. You can have any 2 out of the 3.