CLI is first class in proxmox, I use the qm command for managing vms all the time. The networking is also just a file in `/etc/network/interfaces` that I modify with vim as needed.
Roughly ten years ago, my homelab consisted of a dozen virtual machines running on SmartOS. I was not familiar with Illumos, and this was before it had a widely available web UI, but it was simple enough to use that these challenges didn't matter much. SmartOS was designed to boot reliably from USB flash storage, allowed me to use all my SATA ports for VM storage, and was my first "immutable" operating system. The primary focus on ZFS storage was another great quality of SmartOS.
Two moves and several years later, it was time to rebuild the lab, and I decided to go with Proxmox because it had decent ZFS support. Experience with Proxmox has been very good too. The GUI, many more virtualization features (in addition to the key ones I care about), and better hardware support through the Linux kernel have kept me on Proxmox for a long time.
Customizing my Proxmox installation always gave me anxiety. How could I defend my hypervisor from configuration drift? I wished there could be an immutable version of Proxmox.
Later on, I learned about govulcheck, which offers a novel dynamic/static analysis hybrid approach to vulnerability management. Nothing else out there does this (without teaming up with some huge company). I began to think that I should favor software solutions based on golang.
Ultimately, Incus (and IncusOS) fit this need very well. My IncusOS hosts excellent and I'm glad I can run Incus itself on most Linux distros - including NixOS!
I'll keep a small Proxmox host around for experimenting with new kernel features (Intel GVT-g / SR-IOV graphics) and old operating systems like Windows XP or anything else that needs special QEMU options.
I searched the documentation but it wasn't really clear what its live migration and ZFS migration story is, but when I asked Claude to research it, it tells me that it supports live migration via ZFS snapshot replication, which is exactly what I'm looking for. I implemented a ganeti storage driver that does the same thing and am just getting ready to start testing it, but if Incus supports it I might look at moving that direction.
Anyone use Incus live migration with ZFS?
Oh man, you buried the lede there.
I switched over to NixOS around a month ago from Ubuntu and it's been just a dream. I expected there to be some friction with installing things that aren't already built for NixOS, but honestly it's been easier with LLM+NixOS than it was with Ubuntu.
edit: Thinko
You lost me there!!
Firstly, NixOS is hype, like everything being moved to Rust and failing miserably.
Secondly, "AI ... can .... safely modify my infrastructure", OP is either being a troll or haven't seem how the whole IT world is upside down because of those very same statements.
Thirdly, "my entire infrastructure is defined in text files", you clearly never heard of Ansible.
All my Proxmox LXC containers from DNS servers, to NGINX firewall aliases feeding OPNSense firewall rules, from Forgejo hosting my repos to PostgreSQL database, from Semaphore running my Ansible playbooks on schedule to *Arr collection, everything is fully infrastructure as code, there is no GUI.
I do not log into Proxmox to deploy my stuff, I enjoy CLI and Ansible makes everything like a walk in the park. I use Proxmox CLI tool "pct" for everything, even snapshots are CLI via "vzdump" and its config file.
My take from that post and comments resume in "hype" "not understanding processes" "seeing problems where there isn't one"
I only run Linux here, even my 3D printer runs Debian Netinst Linux. I am missing something here.
NixOS is more than 20 years old, and virtually all of the things that make it compelling were already present a decade ago. If it's not for you, you'll know after you give it a try. But for those for whom it clicks, it's desirable because it just provides a more enjoyable computing experience. It's not more complicated than that.
> Secondly, "AI ... can .... safely modify my infrastructure", OP is either being a troll or haven't seem how the whole IT world is upside down because of those very same statements.
I do lots of Terraform work and some Nix work with LLM agents at my job. Is it worth it to rewrite a huge amount of whatever infrastructure-as-code your LLM agent generates? Hell yes; they generate way too much code and they make lots of mistakes. Are LLM agents still useful for experimentation via infrastructure-as-code? Also yes.
> Thirdly, "my entire infrastructure is defined in text files", you clearly never heard of Ansible.
I've used Ansible and Puppet at previous jobs. They don't manage state in a comparable way to NixOS. It just ain't the vibe. Domen Kozar wrote a decent blog post about the technical differences a decade ago: https://www.domenkozar.com/2014/03/11/why-puppet-chef-ansibl...
But the real reason is that those technical differences add up to a more pleasant experience for NixOS.
In my earlier days as a NixOS user, I used to get really excited with its design and how cool it is, and the neat technical properties that fall out of that (atomic upgrades! rollbacks! (and no filesystem snapshotting needed!)). I still think those things are awesome. But at the risk of feeding into your impression that "NixOS is hype", I've learned since then that the better pitch is about the subjectivity of using it: it feels good to use because experimentation is extremely cheap, reversible, transparent, and... fun. If you know, you know.
20 years???
NixOS mention only started this year, I have been working in IT for the past 20 years, from e-commerce to banking and airline companies, I have never ever heard of NixOS.
Not until "social media influencers" started flooding YouTube with it this year.
We must be living in a completely different world then.
I would love to know more about how you do this, particularly the deploy part. I'm considering moving away from Ansible, but haven't had the time to dedicate to exploring a similar Nix experience.
Uhh, whut? It provides a button-y interface, but you can do everything via config files and `pct` on the command line if you prefer. I know that’s not full nix-style declarative, but you don’t have to mislead to sell me on the advantages of declarative infra.
I remember Stéphane worked on adding support for incus containers to opentofu which seemed more popular than using ansible to describe the resources.
One of the developers building Sylve gave a talk last year [2].
[1]: https://sylve.io/
The "my entire infrastructure is defined in text files" alone tells OP never hear of Ansible.
> While you can automate it with Terraform or Ansible, it..
I did abandon TrueNAS, however. It really is a locked-down appliance. Good luck installing custom software on the base OS. I have a domain-joined Ubuntu/ZFS box that inherits a lot of policy from FreeIPA and/or Ansible config that is all backed by files on disk. It's been really easy to orchestrate what many would consider overkill in my homelab because literally everything is represented in a single Github repo.
I yanked vmfactory out and into a standalone repo if anyone is interested: https://github.com/whalesalad/vmfactory
I hardle ever access Proxmox GUI, everything is fully managed via Ansible playbooks, from deploying the LXC containers to updating them, from taking snapshot to syncing stuff to my TrueNAS is done via batching.
>I did abandon TrueNAS, however. It really is a locked-down appliance. Good luck installing custom software on the base OS
The most common mistake people seem to make when it comes to NAS, TrueNAS is a NAS not a Proxmox server.
I see people running dozens if not hundreds of services on UnRaid, one fart and the whole infrastructure, if I can call it that, goes to sh1t.
I run Ansible against Proxmox hosts to ensure the config on them is what I want, and then Terraform all VMs into place on them. It's not too far off from having your own mini-EC2, minus some of the nice trappings like load balancers.