123 pointsby 1vuio0pswjnm74 hours ago12 comments
  • jazzpush23 hours ago
    Meta continuing to be the most shameless (and shameful to work for) company around.

    I can't think of a single product of theirs that hasn't made the world a markedly worse place. Even their recent hardware foray is managing to find a way to ruin trust in everyday interactions (guys filming drunk girls with Ray Bans, surveillance, etc.).

    Have several friends at the more 'thoughtful' frontier labs that bin meta applicants straight to the trash for this very reason.

    • zx80808 minutes ago
      Meta is a golden jail for one teenager who cannot grow up no matter what he does. Shame.
    • test655421 minutes ago
      Back in the day... 2004-2005 facebook was amazing. Spread like wildfire, and lots of fun to use. Just you and your college friends, and their friends.
    • magixxan hour ago
      Portal was pretty good and an originalish product
    • millerfiller2 hours ago
      I hope there’s a day where collectively the money is no longer enough and reason and good will prevails so that Meta can crumble to dust while I am alive; but doubtful that day will ever come.
    • TZubirian hour ago
      WhatsApp
      • asp_hornetan hour ago
        I think OP’s point is that it was bought not made similar to Instagram.
      • sillywalk34 minutes ago
        Nitpick: Facebook bought WhatsApp, it didn't make it.
        • Marsymars27 minutes ago
          They've also largely made WhatsApp worse.
      • 35 minutes ago
        undefined
    • brcmthrowaway2 hours ago
      They dont need frontier labs. Meta's dashboard jockeys get paid the same
    • asdaqopqkqan hour ago
      [flagged]
    • jopolous2 hours ago
      Where should we work instead?

      I’d really like to leave, but I’m kind of stuck, and I don’t have enough to retire.

      I have to work remote from a non-coast state for family care reasons, and the places I’ve interviewed at the last few months have balked at hiring a remote employee.

      • dozerly2 hours ago
        Your options are:

        1. Find another job 2. Don’t find another job

        You can’t say “where else can I work” like you have no agency over your life. Everyone chooses every day to do what they do that day.

        You don’t get to be morally absolved because you’re choosing the easy path and you’re “stuck”. I’m sure there are plenty of places that pay less that would love to have talented remote employees.

        • tempay12 minutes ago
          The key point here is the “pay less” part. I know people that have turned down offers from meta that would 5x their salary and their personal situation would notably improve from at least some of that extra cash.

          The OP is a bit preachy and maybe some employees really don’t have any other options even with accepting lower salaries, but the majority should at least realise the golden handcuffs their bound by even if they choose not to act on them.

        • test655416 minutes ago
          I don't blame someone for working at facebook, but I don't think most of you realize how cash money a FANG company looks on your resume to IT managers at the lowly normal companies. Go work in financial services, insurance, retail, go be a contractor and work/travel until you find what you like.
        • ra0x32 hours ago
          Not sure why you're being downvoted. Maybe a little preachy, but the gist of the point isn't incorrect
          • dozerlyan hour ago
            In a large portion of tech people like to pretend that they are absolved of responsibility for their societal contributions. “Get that bag” and all that. Work at Anduril as long as it makes that bread, etc.

            It makes sense that someone promoting them to re-evaluate the harm they’re causing by participating would elicit negative response

          • least42 minutes ago
            People don’t particularly care for platitudes from anonymous people on the internet. Even less so when they reduce a complex dilemma in your life to a binary choice between an “easy and amoral” option and a “difficult but righteous” one.

            Most people make compromises inside imperfect systems. The person casting judgment almost certainly has their own moral compromises too, except those they understand, contextualize, rationalize, and forgive themselves for.

            It’s just tiresome. There may not be a ton of context, but even knowing that someone is bound to a particular place because of caregiving responsibilities should be enough to invite a little more empathy and grace, and a lot less judgment.

            • ryandrake28 minutes ago
              I think there would be more empathy if Meta were the only company in the world where it was possible to work. That's "stuck." This is not.

              I've quit jobs over ethical boundaries. It's not an easy decision, and "integrity" doesn't quite pay rent, but helped me to sleep better at night and let me live with myself.

            • pishpash32 minutes ago
              They are not understanding that it's not one person's moral failing at the root of it, it's the system that forces everyone into participating in amoral things, including for example the investors of Meta who are getting a bigger bag. That includes every one of you S&P500 index fund hodlers.
  • claaamsan hour ago
    If they're willing to do this to their own employees that they pay and supposedly wanted to keep around, what are they willing to do with your data? What are they willing to do with the systems they connect to your systems? "Dumb f*cks" has truly been the ethos of this company from day 1.
  • chopete32 hours ago
    If you read the linked article it says the leaked data screenshot of some employees private conversation in plain text and other performance information.

    It was a bold move to do full screen recording and hoping they would anonymize it.

  • albatross79an hour ago
    Garbage company going into a death spiral.
  • daft_pinkan hour ago
    That system is going to be a nightmare in discovery
    • neilv20 minutes ago
      That sounds like a brilliant idea.

      I wonder whether they already thought of that, and are exempting from monitoring the roles most likely to generate "smoking gun" evidence.

  • darth_avocado2 hours ago
    They paused it, but they fully intend to restart it.

    Edit: I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. Quite literally from the article:

    > “We will only re-enable MCI when we are confident in the effectiveness of our data protection controls,” Kasriel said.

  • 2 hours ago
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  • TZubirian hour ago
    I'll be the contrarian here.

    I think the program was legal and morally fine.

    Take into account that these are corporate computers, and the tracking is of work that the company is paying for, so the telemetry, which is highly valuable for analysis and automation, is rightfully theirs.

    I also don't think that the purpose of the move was to manage workers and see if they slack off, it was to gather training data, but even if it were, I think that's normal? In any other job managers can, and are expected to, monitor employee productivity, they are paying for it, they need to ensure they are getting something worth. But again, I don't think that was the main goal here.

    The computers are not intended for personal usage, if the employee wants to watch netflix, or porn, they are free to do so in their personal computers.

    Imagine if this were a construction company, and there's a foreman watching the employees output, and the machine operators have their actions logged so that the machines can be automated in the future. Doesn't it sound reasonable? Is this very different at all?

    So yeah, maybe a lot of people see Meta and computer tracking and immediately jump to 1984, but I kind of like nuance more than knee jerk reactions, or jumping into a narrative that we enjoy being angry about.

    • zenoprax21 minutes ago
      > Doesn't it sound reasonable?

      If you were hired with this as an explicit expectation, yes. It's one thing to know that your actions can be audited in case there's some sort of incident but imposing unlimited surveillance and using that information for the purpose of eliminating your job could be argued to be intimidation (ie. "we can't afford mass layoffs but aggressively monitoring employees will force the undesirables to quit").

      No one likes the terms of their employment being changed against their will no matter how legal it might be. Why not make it opt-in in exchange for some other perks? If the data is valuable then compensate employees for the added burden/liability of total telemetry.

    • survivalcrziest38 minutes ago
    • tmpz22an hour ago
      > I also don't think that the purpose of the move was to manage workers and see if they slack off, it was to gather training data, but even if it were, I think that's normal?

      This is the cost of losing consumer trust over two decades of untrustworthy acts.

  • Ozzie-D3 hours ago
    The irony of a surveillance program being undone by its own data leaking is hard to miss. But the more interesting question is what happens next — do they rebuild it with better security, or does the backlash actually change the approach?

    My guess is they rebuild it. The incentive to track performance metrics at scale is too strong, especially when layoffs are partly driven by those metrics. The leak just means they'll invest more in access controls and fewer people will have visibility into the raw data.

    The uncomfortable part is that most large companies already do some version of this, just less formally. Tracking commit frequency, Slack activity, meeting attendance — it's all legible to management already. Meta just put a name on it and centralized it, which made it a target.

  • weedfroglozenge2 hours ago
    I've never had a problem with employee tracking. For the 8 hours a day they are paying you for work, you should be working. And if you are working, you have nothing to hide.

    The only people pushing back are those that sit on hackernews, reddit, etc. all day and expect to get paid for it.

    • ldng2 hours ago
      Let me guess, because you, yourself, are not an employee so you don't mind because it does not apply to you ?
      • EagnaIonat19 minutes ago
        It's been a fact of life for as long as I can remember. If you using the companies resources, they are well within their rights to monitor what you are doing.

        Just don't use the company stuff and you are fine.

      • bijowo16762 hours ago
        because he is smart.

        he uses personal cellphone to browse reddit and hacker news

        be smart like the top poster

    • jazzpush22 hours ago
      You think Meta employees are only expected to work 8 hours a day?

      Also, this isn't about tracking social media usage, it's about collecting employee keys/actions.

    • yallpendantoolsan hour ago
      There was a time when if your "boss" tells you to install a keylogger on your work machine, it's a black-teaming exercise. How the times have changed...
    • koolalaan hour ago
      "Work" is subjective. That idea only works if everyone's boss was as loving and forgiving as Jesus Christ (philosophically speaking).
      • skydhashan hour ago
        Some time I spend the whole day sitting at my computer and can't think of a solution to a problem. And some time, I'm readying myself to bed and have to note down the solution that just appear in my mind. How do you even track that? I did a time with time tracking software as a freelancer and that has been the most miserable part of my working life (and I did data entry for survey).

        I'm a developer and I mostly do my thinking offline. What I do on my computer is mostly translating my idea to code and consulting docs. Also testing and communication with the team. And all of this is already fairly visible without tracking.

    • darth_avocado2 hours ago
      I get paid for my work, not 8 hours a day. I’m a salaried employee. I sometimes have to work more than 8 to deliver things, I sometimes work less than 8. The fact that someone needs to monitor me all day long and potentially could use the information to treat me unfairly is disgusting. I’m not the first in line to defend meta employees, but this is just unacceptable.
      • swader9992 hours ago
        I actually get paid by the hour but I think exactly like you do. Often work more than what I bill for. I'm delivering so much now with swarms of agents it really doesn't even make sense to pay me by the hour. I really think my next job will be a one person company run by moi.
    • apical_dendritean hour ago
      Given the work that Meta does and the scale that they operate at, there are absolutely real concerns about providing internal access to the activity on someone's work computer. To take an extreme example, Meta has employees who investigate reports of CSAM or other criminal activity on their platform. There have to be very strict controls over who has access to that information.
    • HeavyStorm2 hours ago
      Wow. What a narrow, naive view.
    • lovich2 hours ago
      I guess you don’t mind a camera in the company bathroom watching you take a shit either?
      • etchalon14 minutes ago
        Look, you ate the lunch. The company has to track those resources.
    • millerfiller2 hours ago
      [dead]