22 pointsby thisislife25 hours ago9 comments
  • andsoitis5 hours ago
    > an economic system predicated on individual autonomy and naked self-interest whose incentives run counter to child-rearing.

    It's not just rich places that are becoming less fertile.

    "Demographers have long shown that what really counts is girls’ education. Schooling means that girls gain more autonomy and a greater say in life’s decisions." - https://www.economist.com/leaders/2026/06/04/indias-surprise...

    • surgical_fire4 hours ago
      Poor places also run on Capitalism. They just got the short end of the stick.
      • toomuchtodo4 hours ago
        Capitalism runs on surplus labor, which was only able to work for the last several decades because of a population boom because women were not educated empowered (this is referred to as a (“demographic dividend”). Now that women are educated and empowered, fertility rates are rapidly falling, and labor surplus is falling. What comes next when you run out of labor to squeeze for profits? I don’t know, but I think it’ll be interesting to observe, and the fertility rate globally is likely to continue to fall well into the future (~40% of pregnancies annually are unintended; as systems improve to further prevent unintended pregnancy, this will lead to lower fertility rates).

        Any efforts to improve socioeconomic systems to make having children a more attractive economic proposition (and thereby increasing the fertility rate) will take years to implement, perhaps longer, if at all. Like a furnace warming a room, it’s getting colder faster than the thermostat can ever raise the temperature back up.

        https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/population-and-demograp...

        Population tool: How will populations across the world change in the 21st century? - https://ourworldindata.org/population-simulation-tool

        The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44866621 - August 2025 (400 comments)

  • louscluesan hour ago
    I would not say it’s capitalism but rather industrialization. Children are assets when they can help with farm work but become an expense when work moves to a factory/office setting.
  • jemmyw4 hours ago
    People who want to have kids have kids. There have been worse economic conditions, and far worse living conditions for folks in the not very distant past and they still had large families.

    There has been a slow burn change to social pressure and autonomy. It seems like women don't want to have a large family, or some a family at all, if the choice is there. The rationale about why they put it off are unlikely to be worth much.

    I think every economic remedy will fail. But it'll probably pick up again because I imagine social pressure will turn. All this noise people are making about it right now is the start. Personally I see that as a negative, we should be celebrating a downward population trend. We had so many years of warning about the effects of an ever larger population and now get hand wringing the moment that looks wrong.

  • saltyoldman4 hours ago
    Yeah, sorry. This narrative is over now that the fraud has been exposed.
  • faangguyindia5 hours ago
    funny thing is india, it's not about money. I know tech bros here who make really good income, have good residential properties and cars, they aren't complaining about not having enough money to marry, they just don't find any woman who is willing to marry them.

    Most people who are having kids in india are lower income people.

    so i just don't understand when people say it's because of money issue, when people with comfy jobs fail to have babies, it's not about money.

    • SanjayMehta20 minutes ago
      What you're saying mostly applies to general category people. If you spend any time listening to middle class families it all comes down to the cost of getting a good education if the kids didn't get a "government seat." As an example, a medical degree in a private college can cost 1cr for tuition fees alone.

      The kids pick up on this lament consciously or unconsciously and realise that the more kids they will have, the worse the problem.

      The "poor" people get subsidies and freebies, and the more children they have, the more sops state governments throw away at them.

      I'm also told, but can't confirm it, another factor is social media pushing fancy vacations abroad spending their entire income.

    • readthenotes15 hours ago
      Highest birth rate is in sub Saharan Africa iirc.

      Money matters but is not the primary.

  • sbuttgereit5 hours ago
    Unless you are seeing the population decline issues in China... then blame socialism and it's long time one child policy. A system predicated on the socialists in power having a sort of "paternalistic wisdom" that it can enforce on society regardless of the individual interests of any set potential parents in having a larger family than their socialist masters wish.
  • colechristensen5 hours ago
    Ugh, it's considerably simpler.

    Blame capitalism, but the real estate part.

    Real estate: there's not enough of it, new construction targets young unmarried people and successively makes smaller units while gradually raising the price per unit. Young people without families optimize for themselves and continually are willing to compromise for less space for the same money but minimum_space(single) << minimum_space(family+kids)

    So new construction, particularly large apartment building have few to no units that anyone could actually raise a family in and trend towards "studio" concrete cylinders.

    Places with more space are zoned for exclusive residential and are thus tremendously boring.

    Mixed use places are full of vacant commercial space because lowering the rent would trigger property revaluation and the places that aren't vacant are tremendously expensive because of the large amount that has to go to paying the rent ... or paying their low-to-middle income employees who spent half their income on rent.

    All of this money is getting sucked out of the economy into A) people who want real estate income without working and B) the financial system giving them loans.

    Nobody wants kids because they have to chose between expensive housing where it's boring and extremely expensive housing where it's not. Just furthering the generation on generation the young paying for the previous generations real estate "investment" growth.

    • orangecat4 hours ago
      Blame capitalism, but the real estate part.

      Housing is absolutely a large reason for the fertility decline, but the main issue is governments forbidding housing from being built which is pretty much the opposite of capitalism.

      new construction targets young unmarried people and successively makes smaller units while gradually raising the price per unit

      Developers don't get to unilaterally set prices, they're determined by supply and demand. When supply is heavily restricted, prices predictably rise.

      • colechristensen3 hours ago
        >Developers don't get to unilaterally set prices, they're determined by supply and demand.

        Eh. Apartment rents are driven by cartel behavior, single management companies own vast swaths of real estate and almost everybody uses a small number of services which calculate the rent they should charge which is more or less price fixing as a service.

        And cities which should be SHAPING the supply with zoning are instead allowing an extremely heavily biased supply of homes designed for single occupancy. If there were a lot more 3BR units in attractive areas it would reshape the whole market, they couldn't afford to have a whole mess of empty large apartments and forcing the prices lower on those would have a cascading effect on smaller apartments.

  • pclowes5 hours ago
    Honestly we are doing articles from Jacobin on the front page now? Whats next Newsmax and OANN? Some flat-earther blog?
    • groan5 hours ago
      You’re being downvoted but for those of us not in the know, what’s wrong with Jacobin? (Keep in mind not all of us are from US/the West), the obvious may be lost on us.
      • pclowes5 hours ago
        Nothing crazy just more highly biased opinion pieces masquerading as journalism just on the far left instead of the right. They have a narrative and they pick stories and “facts” to fit it. Just expect better on hacker news.
      • jcranmer4 hours ago
        Jacobin has a reputation of being in the category of affirm-your-biases news media, albeit one that is left-leaning. Something strong enough that you'd have a prior that any Jacobin article is going to blame all of society's ills on capitalism, and since it's strongly baked into the priors of its readers, there's going to be no real investigation after blaming capitalism.

        Which this article basically does, at first glance. It assumes capitalism is bad for baby-rearing, doesn't really motivate why, and instead just goes East Germany had a higher birth rate than West Germany before reunification, then after reunification, it flipped, therefore capitalism causes low birth rates.

        • groan4 hours ago
          I’ll respond to you but thanks for everyone who responded - I appreciate the perspective especially the call out to the Jacobians group from the other poster.

          Honestly - it’s hard to find a publication that isn’t biased, or in many cases just outright wrong outside of a narrow subject matter and are ignorantly pushing someone’s propaganda because they don’t know better. The Atlantic, Economist are posted often and come to mind. I’m exaggerating slightly I’m sure Jacobian has a reason for being disdained.

      • skrtskrt5 hours ago
        It’s sort of like a leftist publication for leftists that have never read anything and don’t base anything in any economics or theory or historical context and just do unresearched reactionary “capitalism bad” stuff.

        I do not know any actual leftists that take it seriously it mostly just serves to embarrass everyone.

      • jbboehr5 hours ago
        For starters, they named themselves after a murderous left-wing terrorist organization:

        > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobins

        > the most influential political club during the French Revolution of 1789. The period of its political ascendancy includes the Reign of Terror, during which well over 10,000 people were put on trial and executed in France, many for "political crimes".

  • wewewedxfgdf5 hours ago
    It irrelevant - babies are not needed for population growth - there's plenty of countries that are overpopulated all that is required is redistribution of the people we have rather than making more. If we look at these issues globally rather than on a per country basis it looks easier to resolve/different.
    • pfdietz5 hours ago
      > babies are not needed for population growth

      Of course they are, on a global scale. There is no other process than birth that can increase global population.

      • wewewedxfgdf5 hours ago
        That's being pedantic - of course I mean babies from other countries as well as adults - when birth rates drop in a country its easy to grow population with entire families including babies from countries that are overpopulated - this is a win for everyone including the environment.
        • noosphr5 hours ago
          This is a loss for everyone expecting to become anything but soyoent in their reteriment.

          An inverted population either kills the old or enslaves the young.

          We reached peak baby 5 years ago. There is a still a path to steady state population but that is closing fast.

          • wewewedxfgdf5 hours ago
            Governments need population growth to maintain economic growth - steady state population is very much against economic growth - the population must grow for the good of the economy and therefore the country.
            • apothegman hour ago
              Why must the economy grow? What’s wrong with a steady state economy?
    • WorkerBee284745 hours ago
      Congratulations you just reinvented eugenics.