49 pointsby davidbarker2 hours ago7 comments
  • Rotdhizon28 minutes ago
    This is the easiest niche to pick on but I am mid career for cybersecurity. I spend a decent amount of time trying to advise people away from this career field for college. So so so so so many people are going to college for cyber not realizing when they graduate, they are in totality unemployable. Really I'm not sure how new people to tech could even enter the industry, it seems like at the lower levels the entire industry is essentially closed.

    However it happened, the absolute maniacal obsession with job experience has ruined the market. Yes the more involved jobs in information security do require widespread knowledge that can't necessarily be taught on site. A lot of the entry jobs in tech though are not complicated and can easily be taught on site but even then, companies have defaulted to requiring years of prior experience even for those positions.

    • rfgplk7 minutes ago
      > However it happened, the absolute maniacal obsession with job experience has ruined the market.

      The problem isn't necessarily with job _experience_. It's the acronym. Most employers seem to believe that YOE stands for years of _employment_, which has effectively cut off anyone who wasn't previously employed at a relevant position. You can gain experience in almost anything by working hard at home (and 90% of that would absolutely carry over to a FT position), but you can't do the same for employment (unless you accept fabricating your job history). Cybersecurity is actually a field where hacking away at home, messing around with codebases, doing ctfs can actually give you TONS of experience, but barring you coming up with major zerodays, no one cares.

    • zwily3 minutes ago
      Have a friend just graduated in cybersecurity. He’s going into the military with it.
    • spunker54022 minutes ago
      I’m just a swe, but I kinda thought cyber is a good place to be, since the proliferation of insecure vibecoded apps.
      • rfgplk6 minutes ago
        Most companies sadly don't care about security whatsoever.
        • delfinom4 minutes ago
          Yep, I think my megacorp's cybersecurity department is just a bunch of checklist punchers that now just copy and paste any of our technical writeups into ChatGPT, and I am not even joking. Fucking infuriating.

          They are doing the bare minimum for cybersecurity insurance requirements, thats it.

      • wizzwizz46 minutes ago
        There would not be such a proliferation if cybersecurity were a well-respected field.
  • 827a4 minutes ago
    I would postulate that there are two reasons why this is happening.

    1. Pessimistic, harsh, etc: the quality of US graduates has been falling. Reading comprehension has been on a downward trend over the past decade. Mental illness, depression, and attention disorders are on the rise. Grade inflation, social media, AI availability, we spent years talking about how all of these things would be bad, and now the experimental cohort of kids growing up in this world are graduating and can't find jobs; maybe its not a coincidence.

    2. AI automates processes. It doesn't just "do stuff" broadly speaking. AI has increased the leverage that process experts bring to the table: Doing 100x more of the right thing is infinitely more valuable than 100x more of the wrong thing, and with AI proliferating at the rate it is, the differentiator actually isn't in the 100x; its in the driver. Companies need senior talent; its like low-background steel.

    I doubt we will see reversal on this in the near term. If anything I expect the "unemployment in their field" chart for every seniority bucket to continue up-and-to-the-right, just lagging behind new grads. But, whether that surfaces in general unemployment remains to be seen: Generally, I think the value of a college education is just going to drop.

  • nikolayan hour ago
    Isn't getting a college degree actually making you more selective, too, leading graduates to pass on jobs they would otherwise have taken?
    • gravypodan hour ago
      I've known a few college graduates who have come up in this market. From what I see, the common pattern is to try and get a position in your field for 3-10 months. Somewhere in that time range, they burn out. Then they apply for something field related for a few months. Then anything. Once they've exhausted all options they usually give up.

      We will likely have a similar concept in our country as China's "lying flat" movement unless we make a big shift.

      • krackers3 minutes ago
        >as China's "lying flat" movement

        No, you miss that "lying flat" is only possible when cost of food/living is low and housing is abundant.

      • trescenzi43 minutes ago
        This isn’t really new. When I graduated in 2013 the barista with a college degree was a trope for a reason. Maybe 50% of my graduating CS class had a CS job within 6 months of graduating. Friends with other degrees spent years trying to find something in their field.
      • nradov36 minutes ago
        American parents on average may be less willing and financially able to support deadbeat adult children than their Chinese peers.
      • panny22 minutes ago
        Hah, I speed ran that process when I graduated with a useless degree back in the dotcom days. I graduated and gave up any hope within 3 months. I was working at the shopping mall selling suits after that. I've since told anyone who will listen that college degrees are worthless and school loan debts are the kiss of death. Not many will listen, but I try.
  • andy9940 minutes ago
    Are there people who think college education is a shortcut to generic employment? This seems like a very misleading statistic. Average earnings (including those unemployed), etc might be better. Telling me that it’s harder to get a professional job that I’m qualified for than it is to walk up to a McDonald’s or whatever and get a job is not shocking.
    • conception37 minutes ago
      > college education is a shortcut to generic employment

      That was/is the societal narrative for the last forty plus years, yes.

    • gruez37 minutes ago
      >Telling me that it’s harder to get a professional job that I’m qualified for than it is to walk up to a McDonald’s or whatever and get a job is not shocking.

      But as the graph also shows, graduate unemployment rate was lower for much of 2010s and before, so in some sense it really was "easier" with a college degree.

  • armchairhackeran hour ago
    Since 2019, although now the gap is higher than ever (1.4%).

    College doesn’t prepare you for work as effectively as work, but it also teaches interesting things and prepares for academia (graduate school).

  • sublinearan hour ago
    > The comparison is worth pinning down. "All workers" is the whole U.S. labor force, and most of them are older and more experienced than a new graduate, so a fresh grad starts at a natural disadvantage. For decades the degree more than canceled that disadvantage out. Now it does not.

    > New grads have not fallen behind their peers who skipped college, either. Young workers without a degree sit at 7.2% unemployment, well above the grads' 5.6%. A degree still beats no degree. What it no longer does is beat the average.

  • OutOfHere40 minutes ago
    Outside of medicine and law, a non-CS engineering degree, preferably also a masters, remains a good pathway to a reasonable non-parasitic job, although relocation may be required.
    • dr_dshiv24 minutes ago
      Can it be replaced with good references and an interesting portfolio?
      • OutOfHere14 minutes ago
        For those with a CS degree, I think the issue is that we aren't correctly using CS and AI to amass power as we rightfully should. We literally hold in our hands the power to delete many desk jobs from existence, also to offer various original new services, but somehow we're feeling crippled. This disconnect requires bridging.