8 pointsby alcazar6 hours ago1 comment
  • uberman5 hours ago
    This topic comes up every now and then and just reflecting on my own life, I don't see men being bad at making and keeping friends. We just seem to do so differently than women do.

    Growing up, I played with an essentially feral pack of boys. Individuals came and went from the pack and it was no big deal. The pack usually hovered at about 8 individuals, enough to play pickup street hockey or a baseball-ish looking game. Today each of my daughters tends to maintain one intense friendship at a time rather than a loose collection of friendships. Maybe that is great but my observation is the fewer and more intense these friendships are, the sooner they self destruct and the more intense the emotions are when they do.

    Is one way better than the other? I can't say from a clinical perspective but having lived one myself it seems clear to me that my lived experience was better and more healthy than the other. I'm guessing when you live the other you feel it was better. Here is where, I believe, lives the disconnect. People who value intense shared one on one connections dismiss loose connections as somehow inferior.

    For me personally, my intense close connections are with my immediate family and I don't feel a need or pull to create connections like this with someone outside my family be they man or woman. After that, when I socialize, I do so in the context of shared enjoyed experiences and yes they are typically sports related.

    I'm just not interested in some mate's struggles with their boss at work or their struggles with their aging parents or that great book they just read. The friends I have are (presumably) also not interested in those things from me or in sharing their experiences with me. My friends tend to be the cliché "listen with an ear to solve problems" not "listen with an ear to provide empathy" types. I'm sure at some level those who listen to provide empathy see my inclination as shallow. I just see it as different.

    I have a larger group of life long friends than my wife. We don't send birthday cards or holiday cards to each other. We don't call once a month to check in on each other but when we do get together we will socialize as if we were still those same feral kids. My wife on the other hand not infrequently agonizes over deciding to actively unfriend someone who is not doing their part to maintain the required intimacy and intensity of the friendship. For her, these people are just too much work to maintain and are social/emotional vampires.

    So I guess, my ultimate question is am I a bad friend, is my wife a bad friend or do we just maintain different types of friendships with neither being inherently bad or inferior. For what it is worth, I never feel "lonely" and I am certain that neither does my wife.

    • alcazar5 hours ago
      You mention your intense, close connections are with your immediate family. Do you think your method would still work for you if you didn't like your family and were single? Unfortunately, that happens to many lonely males.

      Your comment was an interesting read, though. I never before got into the mind of someone who prefers the "feral pack" over individual, more intense connections, and your description worked well with that.

      Best of luck to you and also to your daughters and wife.

      • uberman5 hours ago
        I can't really say other than I can say that I am not close with my sister and never have been. I am similarly not close with my own parents who now live in a different country though we are close with my wife's parents. So when I say "immediate family", what I mean personally is my wife and daughters. What would it have been like to have the closeness with my own parents that I have with my daughters? I'm not sure other than reflecting back on those days that it would have seemed weird to me. Perhaps that is a missed opportunity.

        Even with my family though I have to actively work to listen first for empathy and problem solve only when asked :-)