Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers(www.wsj.com)
44 pointsby KnuthIsGod5 hours ago6 comments
  • ricksunny4 minutes ago
    As a digital nomad, informed by my experiences & research doing so since 2008, I had an LLM (Sonnet) summarize and found the result informative. Can't post the summary due to the forum norms, but here is the prompt highlighting my framing, you can roll your own:

    "Summarize this, with particular attention to highlighting key geographic proper names. Assume I have mindset of a competitive expat looking for the best opportunity of lifestyle to participate in, and assuming that other expats have similarly competitive mindset (including whether or not they would choose to inform such a publication)."

  • hellosputnik3 hours ago
    Maybe I'm becoming (or already cynical), but I'm increasingly tired of the genre of posts/reels/TikToks where someone moves to Vietnam, Portugal, Thailand, Mexico, etc. and comes back with profound observations about how "people there really know how to live" and how life is simply better there.

    A lot of "I've discovered a better way of life abroad" stories seem to quietly assume continued access to US wages, US assets, US equity compensation, or US retirement savings.

    • mahirsaid3 hours ago
      regardless if you hate hearing them promoting their experiences or not, it's still true. People want to have fun and live happy not worry about school shooting, healthcare costs, living standards.

      I watched a video of a teacher that moved from Canada to China. He explained how much him and his family love it there, after 14 years he moved again to Singapore and loves it there just a little better than China. it is NOT all that unusual to move and have life shared across multiple countries. I think it's natural. We were literally doing that none stop during 1500's , 1400's ,1300's, just imagine the ancient silk-road.We might make it sound and feel like it is the worst thing you can do is move to another country in a form of guilt to betrayal of your residing country, but it's really not.

      Stop listening to everything that you hear. Choose what you want your brain to experience. Do what YOU think will bring you joy.

      I have lived in three states so far, yes lived not just visited. A relative told me numerous times " to not go, its a bad idea and far away moving to Florida, New York" guess what I should of moved sooner. wasted time and years listening to scared of change people.

      • seanmcdirmid2 hours ago
        I loved china but eventually had to come back due to mostly air quality and some career issues. I’m back in my favorite American city at least, but having spent 11 years out (2 in Switzerland and 9 in china), I feel anxious (and I came back just in time for Trump 1, ugh).
        • mahirsaid28 minutes ago
          Again i wish more people did what you did and experience life outside of their norm. Indeed it's not for everyone but the point stands. You made the choice to come back after experiencing something else for a while.
    • adrian_b2 hours ago
      The US wages are desirable only for buying the things that have about the same price everywhere (because they are imported from the same Asian countries, with prices passing through US dollars), i.e. mostly electronics and computing devices.

      Other products and services, like food, clothes, a home, healthcare, education, or even cars, you can get better than in USA for lower prices, so that the budget for them can be even a lower fraction of a typical local wage, than it is in USA as a fraction of a US wage.

      Depending on personal needs and preferences, either USA or another country may be the better choice, but the value of a US wage has a much lower weight in a correct decision than you assume, because a wage must be compared with the expenses. Its absolute value tells very little, because the US dollar appears to be greatly overvalued in comparison with other currencies (which is a consequence of its role in international commerce).

    • throwaway676783 hours ago
      Did you read the article?
      • dilyevsky2 hours ago
        Did you? That's exactly what they are discussing except Spain and Portugal. One of the profiles still works remote at a major US software firm.
  • meszmate3 hours ago
    Europe gets romanticized way too much. Healthcare often means months of waiting and very hit-or-miss doctors. Bureaucracy is worse, salaries are lower, and there are plenty of stupid laws and corruption too.

    It is probably better if you value slower life, more vacation, and working less. But it is not some obvious upgrade over the U.S. Just a different set of problems.

    (I'm hungarian)

    • dgellow2 hours ago
      To add some nuances, as someone living in Germany, it’s correct you might have to wait months for a medical appointment, but not for emergencies. Psychiatrists, psychotherapists are generally overbooked and you likely have to wait 3-6 months (sometimes more), which isn’t great if you are in a bad place. However if we are talking about breaking something, you can get everything happening quickly and efficiently.

      Personal anecdotes:

      I had to wait 6+ months to get an actual diagnostic when I had a pretty bad depressive episode. Everybody around me shares that same experience. The eventual diagnostic (adhd with high anxiety) didn’t cost me anything. And I pay 15€ every 3 months or so for my meds.

      When I got a lumbar disc herniation that required urgent medical intervention I got brought to a hospital immediately, got MRI scans, multiple days in hospital with an assigned physiotherapist, bunch of prescribed medication. Everything was done extremely way quickly. The whole thing, including the ambulance, drugs they injected to be able to move me, scans, hospital bed, crutches, and medication cost me around 40€. And something like 30€ for the month of physiotherapy that followed.

      I have a high incomes and am self-employed so pay a bit more than 900€ a month for the public health insurance, which is the maximum here (the fact we have a cap instead of a pure percentage of income doesn’t make any sense to me, I should be paying way more). Insurances manage everything automatically.

      Agreed that German doctors are really hit or miss, though that has been the case everywhere I lived

    • ahtihn2 hours ago
      My experience in Europe is that healthcare is expensive but efficient, bureaucracy is fine and salaries are very high. Guess which country I live in.

      Point is "Europe" is way too diverse to generalize like that.

      • caldarons2 hours ago
        this feels like it would be true only in scandinavian country, switzerland or luxembourg
      • maltemalte2 hours ago
        Switzerland?
      • dilyevsky2 hours ago
        Switzerland or Luxembourg.
    • dwroberts36 minutes ago
      I imagine a lot of people are happy to just have access to medical care that doesn’t bankrupt them to be honest. Especially if they have children with medical conditions, or chronic conditions of their own etc.
    • swatcoder2 hours ago
      > It is probably better if you value slower life, more vacation, and working less.

      That's exactly it, right? Self-sorting among those suitably positioned to emigrate and who have tastes more aligned with European norms?

      That sounds more like pragmatism than romantacism.

    • hhh2 hours ago
      I moved in 2024 (to NL) and i’ve never had better experiences with doctors or dentists. Extremely quick and simple, and insurance billing is a breeze.
    • TheCleric2 hours ago
      I would take healthcare I have to wait a bit for over healthcare that could cripple me financially thanks.
      • hdgvhicv2 hours ago
        Last time I used healthcare in mainland Europe (Austria) a suspected broken finger it was 25 minutes from waking in to having the scan and the splint and being on my way. This was free with a GHic.

        In the U.K. I had a problem and phoned my gp, went in 2 hours later, 10 minutes, walked out with a prescription.

        In the US I had the same problem, spent 2 hours, had my blood pressure taken 4 times, and eventually had the same prescription. That’s cost me $2,000.

        Now for chronic stuff perhaps it’s different. My mother told Her gp whe hd a problem with her shoulder and Gp said she didn’t need a CT scan, so she paid $300 for one privately which was booked in for a few days later. The results said there was nothing wrong. Maybe in the US it’s different and cheaper?

      • schreiajan hour ago
        Good news, in the US you don't need to choose... and by need, I mean you probably get both.
    • bitwize2 hours ago
      Still better than the US system.
    • waterTanuki3 hours ago
      Are you making a judgement on the entire European continent as a whole from your experience in Hungary or have you actually lived in a few countries across Europe to come to this conclusion?
  • VeilusDigital4 hours ago
    Well I am not surprised, Look at who you have running the country. I have no interest In going to to visit ever again and I love the US but not with him or any of his cronies in charge.
  • mahirsaid3 hours ago
    Soon there will be restrictions on this. If the data ever gets presented and catches public opinion then i suspect the restrictions will start coming and salary caps based on expat workers will start to deter them from leaving. Quite the contradiction if you want people to stay. We all know this is the attitude of the admin ATM.
  • aemoron2 hours ago
    I was lucky enough to visit the US before Trump's 1st term back in 2015. I even considered working there. Sure, the customs and TSA were uncomfortable experiences, but that's nothing compared to what my dual-citizenship colleague had on a recent trip.

    They were taken into a backroom for questioning at Houston airport for hours with no explanation and ultimately let go with no apologies, nothing. The "crime" was using their European passport, methinks. They are not going back to US after that experience.